Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2019 20:02:54 GMT -5
So you can’t answer my question; “Why weren’t the employers who broke the law also arrested?” They should be. I'm all for it 100%. Arrest them, fine the shit out of them. Either way the person became a criminal when they crossed without papers. That is before they got a job. They are still CRIMINALS. Can you answer a question for me? Why all the so called caring of the separation of families. Families are separated when a legal citizen breaks the law. Wait no howling or crying foul. Oh I know you can't push that on Trump. When legal U.S. parents are separated from their legal U.S. children, there is in most cases a legal U.S. relative who can take legally take care of them. And hopefully there are two legal American parents where one is not separated from their legal American children.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 9, 2019 20:52:31 GMT -5
They should be. I'm all for it 100%. Arrest them, fine the shit out of them. Either way the person became a criminal when they crossed without papers. That is before they got a job. They are still CRIMINALS. Can you answer a question for me? Why all the so called caring of the separation of families. Families are separated when a legal citizen breaks the law. Wait no howling or crying foul. Oh I know you can't push that on Trump. When legal U.S. parents are separated from their legal U.S. children, there is in most cases a legal U.S. relative who can take legally take care of them. And hopefully there are two legal American parents where one is not separated from their legal American children. On any given day there are 443,000 us children in foster care. www.nacac.org/2019/01/18/foster-care-numbers-up-for-fifth-straight-year/
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 9, 2019 20:55:42 GMT -5
I just read a summary of Lozano vs Hazelton. It sounds like the issue was more about renting and fair housing than employment. And it seems the harboring clause was problematic. If your town just enforced eVerify, there wouldn't have been a problem. It isn’t my town. I am from PA so this was all over the need back then. I also met Barletta a few times and he described the major issues that hazleton was having because of the illegal problem. It is easy to sit in suburbia and not understand the impact that illegals have on a community.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2019 21:12:23 GMT -5
When legal U.S. parents are separated from their legal U.S. children, there is in most cases a legal U.S. relative who can take legally take care of them. And hopefully there are two legal American parents where one is not separated from their legal American children. On any given day there are 443,000 us children in foster care. www.nacac.org/2019/01/18/foster-care-numbers-up-for-fifth-straight-year/Doesn't mean all U.S. children separated from one or both parents are in foster care. Some are temporarily given to relatives. And in many U.S. cases, it's the child taken away from the parent and not the parent taken away from the child which is what is happening on our southern border. And in many cases, the U.S. parent still lives in what was the child's permanent home. No criminsl charges necessarily filed against the parent. Maybe just bad parenting until the parent can show the the authorities they can be good parents.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 10, 2019 12:59:33 GMT -5
Doesn't mean all U.S. children separated from one or both parents are in foster care. Some are temporarily given to relatives. And in many U.S. cases, it's the child taken away from the parent and not the parent taken away from the child which is what is happening on our southern border. And in many cases, the U.S. parent still lives in what was the child's permanent home. No criminsl charges necessarily filed against the parent. Maybe just bad parenting until the parent can show the the authorities they can be good parents. the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 10, 2019 13:05:56 GMT -5
Doesn't mean all U.S. children separated from one or both parents are in foster care. Some are temporarily given to relatives. And in many U.S. cases, it's the child taken away from the parent and not the parent taken away from the child which is what is happening on our southern border. And in many cases, the U.S. parent still lives in what was the child's permanent home. No criminsl charges necessarily filed against the parent. Maybe just bad parenting until the parent can show the the authorities they can be good parents. the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law. So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 10, 2019 17:42:10 GMT -5
So you can’t answer my question; “Why weren’t the employers who broke the law also arrested?” They should be. I'm all for it 100%. Arrest them, fine the shit out of them. Either way the person became a criminal when they crossed without papers. That is before they got a job. They are still CRIMINALS. Can you answer a question for me? Why all the so called caring of the separation of families. Families are separated when a legal citizen breaks the law. Wait no howling or crying foul. Oh I know you can't push that on Trump. When a parent breaks the law, there is due process. Part of that due process is placement of the children; either with relatives or if no relatives, then the foste system. The children aren’t thrown into cages and left to sleep on concrete floors with insufficient food or medical care. Why can’t you see the difference? And why aren’t conservatives making a stink about employers who knowingly hire the undocumented?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 10, 2019 19:14:22 GMT -5
the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law. So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. Or, being hunted by someone with a gun...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 10, 2019 20:01:29 GMT -5
So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. Or, being hunted by someone with a gun... Excellent example.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 10, 2019 20:41:47 GMT -5
They should be. I'm all for it 100%. Arrest them, fine the shit out of them. Either way the person became a criminal when they crossed without papers. That is before they got a job. They are still CRIMINALS. Can you answer a question for me? Why all the so called caring of the separation of families. Families are separated when a legal citizen breaks the law. Wait no howling or crying foul. Oh I know you can't push that on Trump. When a parent breaks the law, there is due process. Part of that due process is placement of the children; either with relatives or if no relatives, then the foste system. The children aren’t thrown into cages and left to sleep on concrete floors with insufficient food or medical care. Why can’t you see the difference? And why aren’t conservatives making a stink about employers who knowingly hire the undocumented? so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 10, 2019 20:42:47 GMT -5
When a parent breaks the law, there is due process. Part of that due process is placement of the children; either with relatives or if no relatives, then the foste system. The children aren’t thrown into cages and left to sleep on concrete floors with insufficient food or medical care. Why can’t you see the difference? And why aren’t conservatives making a stink about employers who knowingly hire the undocumented? so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy. Oh BTW those secure facilities were used by the last administration, where were your cries then
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 10, 2019 21:11:42 GMT -5
so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy. Oh BTW those secure facilities were used by the last administration, where were your cries then The previous administration kept UNACCOMPANIED kids in a detention center for 1 to 3 days while a family member who could take custody of them was contacted to come get them. They did not grab kids away from their parents and stick them in overcrowded cells with hardly any food for months at a time.
Pay attention, do some googling, don't just believe what you hear on Fox and Friends.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 10, 2019 21:15:51 GMT -5
the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law. So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. This reminds me of a horrible documentary I watched where Iranian clerics refused to allow young women out of a burning school because they weren't wearing their full body covering. They kept shoving them back inside the burning building because the clerks thought death was better than shaming themselves by allowing men to be able to see their uncovered hair.
So - sure, no matter what kind of deadly circumstances are going on in their home country, staying put and waiting to be killed by it is much better than breaking the US immigration law....
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 10, 2019 21:27:56 GMT -5
So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. This reminds me of a horrible documentary I watched where Iranian clerics refused to allow young women out of a burning school because they weren't wearing their full body covering. They kept shoving them back inside the burning building because the clerks thought death was better than shaming themselves by allowing men to be able to see their uncovered hair.
So - sure, no matter what kind of deadly circumstances are going on in their home country, staying put and waiting to be killed by it is much better than breaking the US immigration law....
I remember that. Just looked it up. 2002 Mecca girls' school fire
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 11, 2019 14:17:40 GMT -5
When a parent breaks the law, there is due process. Part of that due process is placement of the children; either with relatives or if no relatives, then the foste system. The children aren’t thrown into cages and left to sleep on concrete floors with insufficient food or medical care. Why can’t you see the difference? And why aren’t conservatives making a stink about employers who knowingly hire the undocumented? so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy. When hundreds of your workers are undocumented, there isn't any reason to say the employer is innocent. They either know what they're doing, or they're too stupid to run a business and my money is on the former.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 11, 2019 17:02:21 GMT -5
so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy. When hundreds of your workers are undocumented, there isn't any reason to say the employer is innocent. They either know what they're doing, or they're too stupid to run a business and my money is on the former. They know exactly what they're doing. They can offset the chump change 500K fine when they get raided by paying the illegals so much less than they'd have to pay an American worker to do it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 11, 2019 18:17:31 GMT -5
the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law. So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. So all of the people crossing the border illegally are facing death at home?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 11, 2019 18:41:13 GMT -5
So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. So all of the people crossing the border illegally are facing death at home? Nope, some are just looking for work, some are criminals.
If we enforced the law that says employers can't hire illegals more aggressively, the problem of illegals coming here for work would dry up. Criminals - they'll have to be picked up and kicked out (which we already do). That leaves people fleeing chaos at home, trying to obtain asylum - our asylum laws require that we let them stay long enough to get a hearing, which decides if they have a legitimate reason they would be unsafe in their home country, or not.
People forget that illegal immigration had been declining for decades when Obama was in office. He presided over a 50 year low on illegal immigrants crossing the border, and was very aggressive on picking up and removing illegals. Then Trump came down the escalator with his bullshit story of hordes of browns flooding the border, hoping to ride the white panic wave to election day - but it was totally made up. Illegal immigration spiked after he came into office because the coyotes who charge illegals to get them over the border started spreading the rumor that Trump was going to completely shut down the border, and this would be their one and only chance to get across before it closed forever. At the same time, Trump shut off aid to the central American countries that generate the most asylum seekers - aid they were supposed to be using to help keep their residents in place.
So - once again we see Trump trying to shut down a crisis that he started himself, and trying to blame it on the dems. If he returned to the Obama era policies and stopped trying to build his damn wall, we would probably go back to the 50 year low we were enjoying just a short time ago. Then maybe we could work on an improved immigration law and deciding what to do about the DACA kids.
But the two parties aren't even on speaking terms, so we continue to grind along in this shit show.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 11, 2019 19:51:08 GMT -5
so you don't want to put the kids in secure areas where they are safe. Because of the kids, the parents should not be arrested? Bullshit. as far as the employers i'm with you arrest them fine them put them out of business if they are knowingly doing it. Have to prove it though its not that easy. When hundreds of your workers are undocumented, there isn't any reason to say the employer is innocent. They either know what they're doing, or they're too stupid to run a business and my money is on the former. i only said this because i know first hand. The first thing the business owner says it was my supervisor they hired them. if there is no proof back to the owner then business goes on as usual
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 11, 2019 20:18:23 GMT -5
When hundreds of your workers are undocumented, there isn't any reason to say the employer is innocent. They either know what they're doing, or they're too stupid to run a business and my money is on the former. i only said this because i know first hand. The first thing the business owner says it was my supervisor they hired them. if there is no proof back to the owner then business goes on as usual Massive corporate fines and mandatory prison sentences for somebody. Whether it goes up to the ownership level or the top management level or the direct supervisory level, somebody should be held responsible. And if it is well-publicized in advance, I would guess lower-level people are not going to go along and risk prison. Succeeding violations would result in plant closure. That involves everybody. If you want to solve the problem, get serious about solutions. But they don't, so they won't. Businesses want illegal immigration, which means politicians want illegal immigration. They mostly want to keep it alive as a political issue, so do not want it solved at all.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 11, 2019 21:05:18 GMT -5
So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. So all of the people crossing the border illegally are facing death at home? No all. But many are. There are a myriad of reasons these folks are fleeing their countries. Chronicling the Reasons Central Americans Migrate to the United States
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 22:00:26 GMT -5
the thing is the illegals are still criminals because of illegal crossing. They broke the law and the children pay the price. it is not the law that is the problem here and the law shouldn't be changed to suite this situation. The parents if they are the parents are to blame. Don't start with the bullshit of fleeing a terrible condition. That is no excuse to breaking the law. So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. Oh Boy?? sigh.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 22:01:35 GMT -5
They should be. I'm all for it 100%. Arrest them, fine the shit out of them. Either way the person became a criminal when they crossed without papers. That is before they got a job. They are still CRIMINALS. Can you answer a question for me? Why all the so called caring of the separation of families. Families are separated when a legal citizen breaks the law. Wait no howling or crying foul. Oh I know you can't push that on Trump. When a parent breaks the law, there is due process. Part of that due process is placement of the children; either with relatives or if no relatives, then the foste system. The children aren’t thrown into cages and left to sleep on concrete floors with insufficient food or medical care. Why can’t you see the difference? And why aren’t conservatives making a stink about employers who knowingly hire the undocumented? This is what you get when you come here illegally.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 22:04:00 GMT -5
Oh BTW those secure facilities were used by the last administration, where were your cries then The previous administration kept UNACCOMPANIED kids in a detention center for 1 to 3 days while a family member who could take custody of them was contacted to come get them. They did not grab kids away from their parents and stick them in overcrowded cells with hardly any food for months at a time.
Pay attention, do some googling, don't just believe what you hear on Fox and Friends.
Kinda funny the picture showed the kid in the cage was from Obama's term.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 11, 2019 22:05:20 GMT -5
So if you lived on the U.S.-Canadian border and there was a forest fire behind you in the U.S., and your only way of saving yourself was to flee across the border into Canada because of a terrible conditions, you would just stay put and burn to death. Got it. Oh Boy?? sigh. So you're not sure. You question marks tells me so. Seriously - learn punctuation; you suck at it. Oh boy. ( Sigh)
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 22:41:44 GMT -5
i only said this because i know first hand. The first thing the business owner says it was my supervisor they hired them. if there is no proof back to the owner then business goes on as usual Massive corporate fines and mandatory prison sentences for somebody. Whether it goes up to the ownership level or the top management level or the direct supervisory level, somebody should be held responsible. And if it is well-publicized in advance, I would guess lower-level people are not going to go along and risk prison. Succeeding violations would result in plant closure. That involves everybody. If you want to solve the problem, get serious about solutions. But they don't, so they won't. Businesses want illegal immigration, which means politicians want illegal immigration. They mostly want to keep it alive as a political issue, so do not want it solved at all. How about massive fines and long term jail time for those that cross our Border illegally? Now that would have some effect!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 22:42:39 GMT -5
So you're not sure. You question marks tells me so. Seriously - learn punctuation; you suck at it. Oh boy. ( Sigh) I know, but I do it to keep you busy.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 11, 2019 22:56:35 GMT -5
Massive corporate fines and mandatory prison sentences for somebody. Whether it goes up to the ownership level or the top management level or the direct supervisory level, somebody should be held responsible. And if it is well-publicized in advance, I would guess lower-level people are not going to go along and risk prison. Succeeding violations would result in plant closure. That involves everybody. If you want to solve the problem, get serious about solutions. But they don't, so they won't. Businesses want illegal immigration, which means politicians want illegal immigration. They mostly want to keep it alive as a political issue, so do not want it solved at all. How about massive fines and long term jail time for those that cross our Border illegally? Now that would have some effect!
On who? They have no money. That is why they come here. And prison time, so we are then even more legally responsible for sheltering and feeding them for years? And how many real criminals do we let go to make room in the prisons? Not to mention that they are not breaking the law at all if they are applying for asylum. Do you ever actually think about what you post?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 11, 2019 23:11:32 GMT -5
If they cross the Border illegally, put then in hard labor camps for a ten year minimum jail term. Those that want asylum, can apply thru their Countries, U.S. Embassies. In their Country,, Not traipsing across Mexico.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 11, 2019 23:22:12 GMT -5
If they cross the Border illegally, put then in hard labor camps for a ten year minimum jail term. ... What is this hard labor they would be doing?
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