China shrinks rare earths export quota

[traelin0]

It's kind of hard to build wind turbines, solar panels, and hybrid vehicles without rare earths. I wonder what the environmentalists who fought mining them in America are going to do?

www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/28/general-as-china-rare-earths_8226081.html

[floridayankee]

Dec 29, 2010 13:58:52 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

It's kind of hard to build wind turbines, solar panels, and hybrid vehicles without rare earths. I wonder what the environmentalists who fought mining them in America are going to do?

www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/28/general-as-china-rare-earths_8226081.html

Whine about the evil and greedy....

[sanityjones]

From the article:

China accounts for 97 percent of the global production of rare earths, which are essential to high-tech products such as cell phones, computer drives and hybrid cars.

This is what happens when the American government is so concentrated on buying votes for the next election rather than ensuring that our current and future domestic needs are being tended to. We sat on our hands and watched China go around the world buying up a shitload of mines, rare earths especially, and only now realize the potential consequences?? What a bunch of fools running this country.

[traelin0]

Exactly, and the one major we do have, Molycorp, was hamstrung at every turn. They *used* to be the largest miner of lanthanides in the world. Goldman Sachs used to have a major stake in them but I believe they divested it for holdings in overseas juniors and mids. There's a project that's supposedly coming online in Greenland in 5 years. Sad that we can't even mine here and have to resort to digging holes in glaciers overseas.

[sanityjones]

Sad that we can't even mine here and have to resort to digging holes in glaciers overseas.

Yeah, in other words we are screwed. We are not even going to be able to afford our own energy policies. LOL

[verrip1]

China has foresight.

We have Obama.

[magichat]

Dec 29, 2010 13:58:52 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

It's kind of hard to build wind turbines, solar panels, and hybrid vehicles without rare earths. I wonder what the environmentalists who fought mining them in America are going to do?

www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/28/general-as-china-rare-earths_8226081.html

Probably about the same thing as all the whiners about the oil spill did.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 14:28:25 GMT -5 @sanityjones said:

Sad that we can't even mine here and have to resort to digging holes in glaciers overseas.

Yeah, in other words we are screwed. We are not even going to be able to afford our own energy policies. LOL

As you probably know, the Dept. of Energy was created to "fix" the energy issue. That's turned out well. Who would have thought a bunch of paper shuffling govt. bureaucrats wouldn't know how to rig commodities markets?

Now that govt. has created an even bigger problem, we'll just have to create another govt. agency to fix the original govt. agency's screwups.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 14:48:25 GMT -5 @magichat said:

Dec 29, 2010 13:58:52 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

It's kind of hard to build wind turbines, solar panels, and hybrid vehicles without rare earths. I wonder what the environmentalists who fought mining them in America are going to do?

www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/28/general-as-china-rare-earths_8226081.html

Probably about the same thing as all the whiners about the oil spill did.

If memory serves me correctly, it was govt. that regulated the oil industry to the point they were drilling a mile down. In other words, NIMBY.

[magichat]

Dec 29, 2010 14:51:50 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

Dec 29, 2010 14:48:25 GMT -5 @magichat said:

Probably about the same thing as all the whiners about the oil spill did.

If memory serves me correctly, it was govt. that regulated the oil industry to the point they were drilling a mile down. In other words, NIMBY.

So we should just leave it there? If the oil companies determine that the benefit will out weigh the cost then they will drill for it.

So exactly how environmentally bad is it to mine these rare earth metals? I could care less, but some people get a in a tissy over that.

[floridayankee]

Despite their name, rare earth elements (with the exception of the highly unstable promethium) are relatively plentiful in the Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million (similar to copper).

As I understand it, rare earth is plentiful, as stated. The problem is, it usually isn't found in large deposits like it was in Africa.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 15:17:52 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Despite their name, rare earth elements (with the exception of the highly unstable promethium) are relatively plentiful in the Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million (similar to copper).

As I understand it, rare earth is plentiful, as stated. The problem is, it usually isn't found in large deposits like it was in Africa.

Yes, but the problem is that they are the dirtiest beasts to mine. Ergo why the Greenie Weenies continue to misdiagnose the problem. They have taken a NIMBY approach and continue to tilt at the finished goods windmills (pun intended), instead of understanding that all sound economies start with the Earth. Mine and farm, mine and farm... People talk about how much America "produces", not taking into account the fact that we import the raw materials to produce a lot of those finished goods. Either that or we outsource the crude goods to intermediate goods process to China and import the intermediate goods to finish.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 15:00:52 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Isn't the concentration of rare earth metals in China more due to the undercutting of world prices by Chinese miners? As the supply drives prices more sources will be mined.
I'm sure President Obama can tell us where to dig.

Nope, the primary problem is how filthy the lanthanide mining process is. To truly wrap your mind around the dire issues we face, Google Mountain Pass, CA, Molycorp, Greenland lanthanides, etc. We use a lot of our lanthanides in missile guidance systems and military applications. Even completely eliminating the war machine, which won't happen in the current govt. paradigm, will not solve the problem of minerals exploration, installation of the mining operations, and production, which takes years. This has been a major problem for decades. In 1989-1990, China pronounced that it would be the Saudi Arabia of REMs. They were right.

[magichat]

But Trae aren't you the first to complain when a company doesn't follow the campsite rules? So you want rare earth metals, you want them mined here, but you don't want any of the downside or if there is downside you want the culprits lined up and shot.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 15:28:03 GMT -5 @magichat said:

But Trae aren't you the first to complain when a company doesn't follow the campsite rules? So you want rare earth metals, you want them mined here, but you don't want any of the downside or if there is downside you want the culprits lined up and shot.

Uhh, no. Keep govt. out of private enterprise, unless a crime is committed by the culprits. In that case, uphold private property rights and contract law. Be reactive, not proactive. Govt. proactivity is the root of our problems. If it weren't for govt., we wouldn't have TBTFs. These large, beastly corporations are a direct result of govt. collusion. THAT is what I have problems with. Being anti-big corporation == being pro-free market. One does not exist with the other. These corporations grew up around the central bank and its member banks which themselves are TBTF. It's nothing more than a bunch of Mafias running around and divvying up territory, with the kickbacks going to the govt. Don.

[magichat]

So let's take for example that an inevitable conclusion of mining rare earth metals is ground water contamination. How should that be handled?

BTW, serious question, do you think Walmart was created because of government interference?

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 15:41:03 GMT -5 @magichat said:

So let's take for example that an inevitable conclusion of mining rare earth metals is ground water contamination. How should that be handled?

BTW, serious question, do you think Walmart was created because of government interference?

1. You'd have to give me more specifics. Lanthanides are fortunately more abundant in places where people don't want to live. But there are always tradeoffs in life. Nothing is perfect. Let the states work it out.

2. Created, no. Continues to exist in its present form due to partaking in various legislative authoring, yes. That's what any human institution would do, if it has the clout. The best example I can give of how the free markets handle things is the malinvestment of the railroad tycoons after the Civil War. Jay Cooke speculators get killed by the free markets. He was the Goldman Sachs of his time. We didn't try to prevent the Long Depression, nor should we have.

[floridayankee]

Well, the problem has been resolved....

U.S. rare Earth mine resumes active mining
Published 29 December 2010

Colorado-based Molycorp resumed active mining of the rare Earth metal facility at Mountain Pass, California last week; the site had been shutdown in 2002 amid environmental concerns and the low costs for rare Earth metals provided by mining operations based in China

A major U.S. mine for rare earth metals has gone back into operation, adding a much needed source to offset China’s control of the unique group of materials necessary to build tech gadgets like smart phones and laptops. Colorado-based Molycorp resumed active mining of the rare Earth metal facility at Mountain Pass, California last week. The site had been shutdown in 2002 amid environmental concerns and the low costs for rare Earth metals provided by mining operations based in China.

homelandsecuritynewswire.com/us-rare-earth-mine-resumes-active-mining

[Value Buy]

Dec 29, 2010 15:17:52 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Despite their name, rare earth elements (with the exception of the highly unstable promethium) are relatively plentiful in the Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million (similar to copper).

As I understand it, rare earth is plentiful, as stated. The problem is, it usually isn't found in large deposits like it was in Africa.

This is true to an extent. There are rare earth, and then there is really important rare rare earth. China has lots of the latter.
Their cornering of the market should end in about two years with new mines coming on line. China is actually pushing the price up, to gain as much profit as they can out of the fields before the new mines come online.
Remember, they are the Capitalists now, we are the Socialist/GreenPeace country.

[sanityjones]

China is actually pushing the price up, to gain as much profit as they can out of the fields before the new mines come online.
Remember, they are the Capitalists now, we are the Socialist/GreenPeace country.

Exactly, and we are going to find out just how dangerous a capitalist communist regime really is.

[traelin0]

Dec 29, 2010 16:29:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 29, 2010 15:17:52 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

As I understand it, rare earth is plentiful, as stated. The problem is, it usually isn't found in large deposits like it was in Africa.

This is true to an extent. There are rare earth, and then there is really important rare rare earth. China has lots of the latter.
Their cornering of the market should end in about two years with new mines coming on line. China is actually pushing the price up, to gain as much profit as they can out of the fields before the new mines come online.
Remember, they are the Capitalists now, we are the Socialist/GreenPeace country.

I don't see how any of our problems are resolved given the govt. red tape we have created. It takes years to turn a mine on, even one as developed as Mountain Pass. I'd say it will take at least 2-3 years to be at 100% capacity. And when it is turned on, is the production going to fuel our unending military ops? Or is it going to be used domestically? My bet is on the former. Defense lobbyists like RAYPAC have too much clout to simply have their missile systems arm shut down.

Even at the state level, California is about to go Tango Uniform. God knows what that will do to the state's security apparatus. And businesses are fleeing that Communist hellhole, so what are they going to do, squeeze blood from a turnip? Hopefully Mountain Pass is as remote as possible. Although even in Mexico, the cartels are causing problems for the remote base metal mining operations.

IMHO, California is a Nigeria waiting to happen. They even manage their budgets as efficiently as Nigeria.

[ChiTownVenture]

A little more info

The deposits at Mountain Pass were discovered in 1950 by two prospectors who found a radioactive outcrop and assumed they had located a source of uranium. The prospectors were disappointed to learn that their claim did not contain uranium but rather flouro-carbonate bastnaesite. This mineral was completely worthless to them but was very interesting to the US Geological Survey. The Geological Survey undertook further surveys and discovered non-radioactive deposit of bastnaesite. One of the two original prospectors who found the deposit worked for MolyCorp and he persuaded the company to claim the land although it didn’t exactly know what to do with its rare earth ore. MolyCorp spent the next two decades developing a market for the rare earth elements found in its mine: Cerium, lanthanum, samarium, gadolinium, neodymium, praseodymium and europium.

Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the Mountain Pass mine produced more than 70 percent of the world’s supply of these valuable minerals. At the peak of its operations, the mine produced 20,000 tonnes of rare earth oxides a year.

However, during the mid-90’s commodity prices bottomed out and the mine found it increasingly difficult to compete with cheaper Chinese imported rare earths. In 1998, after hundreds of thousands of gallons of water carrying radioactive waste spilled into and around Ivanpah Dry Lake, the chemical processing at the mine was stopped and the mine shut its doors. After the California mined closed, China assumed the mantle of world leader in rare earth extraction.

Whether focusing on REEs was a deliberate and clever trade strategy or a happy accident, China now had firm control of the world supply of REEs. And while demand remained stable and China exported its REEs at low price points, the US became complacent. Remaining REE stockpiles around the country were sold off and the US as a whole let the REE market completely get away from them.

Fast forward to 2010, and we find that the demand for rare earths has risen considerably given all of the recent discoveries of additional technological uses for the minerals. Just as REE demand has started to ramp up, China began to restrict exports. The US, like other nations, is scrambling to react and get back in the game. However, ramping up a dormant industry is costly and requires a great deal of time. Obtaining a mining license and the associated environmental permits can be described as a regulatory equivalent of a very long cross country steeple chase.

www.kidela.com/kidela/can-america-regain-the-rare-earth-elements-crown

[ChiTownVenture]

Prices bottomed out and there was a huge radioactive spill. I can see why we stopped producing.

[traelin0]

Production, especially mining, is one of the most dangerous businesses in the world. There is no free lunch, as China's monopoly now demonstrates. We have to work to reap the benefits.

To be more succinct, perfect treatment of the environment and finished goods such as wind turbines are mutually exclusive.

[ChiTownVenture]

Agreed, I also hope that we have advanced in our toxic waste handling since 1998. There should be a push to start mining again here in the US.

The US mining industry is poised to ramp up its domestic rare earth production but the question remains; can the US wait for the 10 to 15 years it will take to bring the rest of the REE industry fully online in the US? Even with support from US lawmakers, will the broader industry be able to be internationally competitive? The costs might be too high for some in this industry. For example, Molycorp has to pay some $2.4 million a year on environmental monitoring and compliance, costs. Until monitoring and regulations to curb their negative environmental impacts take effect in China, Chinese companies do not have these same cost burdens.

Much is riding on how the US weathers the next couple of years. Get it wrong and it could prove to be very rough going. Get it right, and the vast majority of people will never know they almost ran out of vital commodities that are at the very heart of the technology that keeps the world humming and their homeland safe. As we type this, there are many dedicated and talented people who are taking great strides to rebuild their country’s REE infrastructure and knowledge base in hopes of once again becoming a world leader in REE production.

Taken from the same article above www.kidela.com/kidela/can-america-regain-the-rare-earth-elements-crown

[traelin0]

Good article, thanks Chi.