Parental Estate Issues

[Deleted]

I didn't want to pile on Opti's thread, but it triggered that frustrated part in my brain about parental estates...

The backstory -

My mother married my step-father when I was 8. He had 3 kids with an ex-wife who went to prison for hiring someone to kill him. He was shot but lived, obviously. 

My SF was an angry drunk and he and his 3 lovelies made my life hell for well over a decade. My mom worked a lot in the evenings, and I was left home to deal with all the crap.

The SF and his ex died a few years ago.

One sibling became a homeless alcoholic/drug addict and died a few years ago.

One sibling starting drinking/drugs in 5th grade and spent most of her life in/out of prison after abandoning her 3 kids with the guy stupid enough to marry her at the time. She finally got clean a few years ago and married a guy with money - likely because he had money...

One sibling is a millionaire due to his landscaping business and many decades of under-the-table payments and tax evasion. He's also a malignant narcissist.

The Current Situation

The narcissist was nasty to my mom when SF was ill and she has no more contact with him. The drug addict, now clean, talks to my mom every day, we think because she's kissing up to get part of her estate.

According to the law in CA, my mom's estate goes to me because she never adopted SF's kids and she tells everyone she wants me to inherit everything. I think partially because she realizes what her marriage choice did to my life...

But, she so far refuses to write a will.

The narcissist and his wife sued the wife's father's estate when they found out they were left nothing. I have 1000% confidence both siblings will come after my mom's estate because they both know I don't have the resources to fight them in court. 

I finally told my mom if they fight, I will mail them the keys to the house and walk away. She thinks this is horrible. Well, then write a will and don't leave it to me to break the news to them they are getting nothing - which will invariably bring lawsuits.

Ah, family...........

[TheOtherMe]

Your mom definitely needs to have a will, pronto.

[swamp]

I have no idea what CA intestate succession law is, but I don't see if leaving anything to step children.  Let them fight, they can file suit whether or not there is a will.   Screw 'em.   

[swamp]

www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-california.html
Here you go.  You get everything.  Don't sweat it.  Any asshole can file a lawsuit. They aren't going to win. 

As far as resources go, the attorney's fees get paid out of the estate assets, so if your mom has assets, you won't be personally liable for the estate. 

They will also have the problem of finding a lawyer to represent them.   No one with any ethics would take a case like that. 

In this case, your mom may be better off without a will.  If there is a will contest, they could say you unduly influenced her, blah, blah, blah.  If there is no will, the law is the law and they get nothing.   If she wanted to take care of them, she would have done a will. 

And make sure they aren't joint owners on any accounts or the beneficiary of any retirement/insurance/annuities.  They're a bitch to challenge in court. 

ETA:  If they aren't in a will, they don't even get notice the estate is going on.    They don't have any family blood relation, so they aren't entitled to notice.    

[happyhoix]

Set up a visit to an estate planner, and bring your mom with you. 'Estate planning' sounds less scary than 'lawyer to write your will.'

As part of the estate planning process, this person can explain to your mom what will happen to your estate should she die without a will. How much will go right to the state, and how much will be divided equally among the heirs, and whether or not her step kids could press their claim to be considered heirs.

A lot of times, people listen to outside professionals better than they will to their kids, and the estate planner will know exactly how to approach this in a business like manner, and can probably set her up with a visit to a lawyer to write the will. Go with her and hold her hand throughout, to lend support (and to make sure she gets it done). The lawyer can write the will in such a way it makes it clear she does not wish that any of her estate goes to her step kids. Plus, she can include in her will any charities she would like to leave money to, or her church - so they get the money, and not her step kids or the state.  And she can designate who she wants to get certain items, if she wants (that's how I got the tilt table my Grandma had in her hallway).

My parents did the estate planning thing and got a nice notebook outlining everything, all their accounts, their living wills, their actual wills, etc. It made things a whole lot easier.

And sorry for your shitty step family. Apparently, that guy's first wife had a good reason to want to shoot his ass . The good news is, as an adult, you've got no further obligations to be involved in their lives, as long as you can encourage your mom to get her estate planning done.

[swamp]

May 30, 2019 11:28:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Set up a visit to an estate planner, and bring your mom with you. 'Estate planning' sounds less scary than 'lawyer to write your will.'

As part of the estate planning process, this person can explain to your mom what will happen to your estate should she die without a will. How much will go right to the state, and how much will be divided equally among the heirs, and whether or not her step kids could press their claim to be considered heirs.

A lot of times, people listen to outside professionals better than they will to their kids, and the estate planner will know exactly how to approach this in a business like manner, and can probably set her up with a visit to a lawyer to write the will. Go with her and hold her hand throughout, to lend support (and to make sure she gets it done). The lawyer can write the will in such a way it makes it clear she does not wish that any of her estate goes to her step kids. Plus, she can include in her will any charities she would like to leave money to, or her church - so they get the money, and not her step kids or the state.  And she can designate who she wants to get certain items, if she wants (that's how I got the tilt table my Grandma had in her hallway).

My parents did the estate planning thing and got a nice notebook outlining everything, all their accounts, their living wills, their actual wills, etc. It made things a whole lot easier.

And sorry for your shitty step family. Apparently, that guy's first wife had a good reason to want to shoot his ass . The good news is, as an adult, you've got no further obligations to be involved in their lives, as long as you can encourage your mom to get her estate planning done.

I'd have to disagree with that.   Drop her off, but don't go in.  

[happyhoix]

May 30, 2019 11:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 30, 2019 11:28:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Set up a visit to an estate planner, and bring your mom with you. 'Estate planning' sounds less scary than 'lawyer to write your will.'

As part of the estate planning process, this person can explain to your mom what will happen to your estate should she die without a will. How much will go right to the state, and how much will be divided equally among the heirs, and whether or not her step kids could press their claim to be considered heirs.

A lot of times, people listen to outside professionals better than they will to their kids, and the estate planner will know exactly how to approach this in a business like manner, and can probably set her up with a visit to a lawyer to write the will. Go with her and hold her hand throughout, to lend support (and to make sure she gets it done). The lawyer can write the will in such a way it makes it clear she does not wish that any of her estate goes to her step kids. Plus, she can include in her will any charities she would like to leave money to, or her church - so they get the money, and not her step kids or the state.  And she can designate who she wants to get certain items, if she wants (that's how I got the tilt table my Grandma had in her hallway).

My parents did the estate planning thing and got a nice notebook outlining everything, all their accounts, their living wills, their actual wills, etc. It made things a whole lot easier.

And sorry for your shitty step family. Apparently, that guy's first wife had a good reason to want to shoot his ass . The good news is, as an adult, you've got no further obligations to be involved in their lives, as long as you can encourage your mom to get her estate planning done.

I'd have to disagree with that.   Drop her off, but don't go in.  

Yes, but Rockhounder should make the appointment and drive her there to make sure she follows through.

Then a nice lunch afterwards.

Otherwise, mom might keep kicking the can down the road. Some people don't like thinking about their own passing.

[Deleted]

I kind of like the "no will and do nothing" solution, but if you want things in writing and find the idea of taking Mom to talk to an attorney about estate planning too expensive or too intimidating (for one or both of you), when I was married to my first husband I used a program called Willmaker to write ours.  I knew he'd never be dragged to an attorney and figured a simple pair of wills was better than nothing, especially since we owned a house together and had a child.

The software leads you through a set of questions about you, your spouse, children, etc. and how you want your property divided- it's VERY simple for someone who has only one child and is leaving her everything. It then generates the will, you print it out and it's signed in the presence of witnesses (the number depends on your state).  You CANNOT be a witness if you're a beneficiary.  You should also think about whether you're willing to accept the duties of Executrix; the state can appoint a lawyer to do it but, as noted in the other thread, they can charge for their services.

Swamp may have an opinion on DIY wills and I can see one big disadvantage is that the stepkids will claim you railroaded her into it and she wasn't in her right mind.

Question:  what's the likelihood that Mom will need all her assets for LTC and there won't be anything left to fight over?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, firstly, I didn't mean my post to come off sounding entitled or "my life is shit because of my childhood therefore I deserve" because I truly don't feel that way.

I've always told my mom to spend every last dime. It's her cash. She quickly blew through most of her own inheritance and sees how that can happen...

Her estate is at least a half-million, but one good illness and that would be gone, as it should be. 

If I cared about other people's money, I'd still have a relationship with my father. His estate will be multi-millions and probably left to the Republican Party or some such as I am an only child and last in that family line. Some things aren't worth all the money in the world. At all. If he wasn't an ass, he would leave part of the inherited family money to my kids, but that probably won't happen. He's special...

Thanks for the info Swamp. Interesting. I always figured they could fight no will more successfully than one where they were left nothing.

When they sued his wife's father's estate, the kids were clearly left nothing in the will and it ended up in court. The judge told them they were greedy, threw out their case, and I believe they ended up with some nice legal bills.   

My step-brother also sued the town where we grew up due to "reverse discrimination" in the 1980s when he mowed the parks. He was about 19 and they promoted someone non-white above him and he sued. He made a million or more from that. He's never needed the cash, he just believes everything belongs to him. 

When my step-father passed, he told my mom he wouldn't force the issue to get half of "his father's" estate for himself or his sister. My mom told him since she's living, there isn't step-father's "half" for him to come after... This is why they no longer have any relationship.

Death has taught me people are freaking crazy.

[swamp]

May 30, 2019 18:44:03 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I kind of like the "no will and do nothing" solution, but if you want things in writing and find the idea of taking Mom to talk to an attorney about estate planning too expensive or too intimidating (for one or both of you), when I was married to my first husband I used a program called Willmaker to write ours.  I knew he'd never be dragged to an attorney and figured a simple pair of wills was better than nothing, especially since we owned a house together and had a child.

The software leads you through a set of questions about you, your spouse, children, etc. and how you want your property divided- it's VERY simple for someone who has only one child and is leaving her everything. It then generates the will, you print it out and it's signed in the presence of witnesses (the number depends on your state).  You CANNOT be a witness if you're a beneficiary.  You should also think about whether you're willing to accept the duties of Executrix; the state can appoint a lawyer to do it but, as noted in the other thread, they can charge for their services.

Swamp may have an opinion on DIY wills and I can see one big disadvantage is that the stepkids will claim you railroaded her into it and she wasn't in her right mind.

Question:  what's the likelihood that Mom will need all her assets for LTC and there won't be anything left to fight over?

I hate DIY wills because something always gets fucked up.  Much easier to contest than a lawyer drawn will,which has a presumption of validity.   Since Shasta is an only child and there is no surviving spouse, I’d just let it ride. 

[Deleted]

May 30, 2019 21:39:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I hate DIY wills because something always gets fucked up. Much easier to contest than a lawyer drawn will,which has a presumption of validity. Since Shasta is an only child and there is no surviving spouse, I’d just let it ride. 

Thanks for the input! As I said in my earlier post, ours was fairly simple and better than no will at all. I'd also spent enough time in my summers during college working for lawyers who did many wills to know what a "normal" one looked like. My current will was created by a lawyer.

And Shasta, no, you didn't sound whiny or entitled. The family background is important, especially the risk that the stepkids will fight for the money even though they have no right to it. And, with that much at stake (provided your Mom doesn't need to spend it on LTC), it's worth doing things right. I can see now that it's even more important for your Mom to do as much as possible on her own (including visiting the lawyer and making her own decisions) rather than you putting a will in front of her to sign, which would be a giant red flag to the stepkids.

Swamp is the better authority on this!

[happyhoix]

May 30, 2019 20:13:37 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

I'm sorry, firstly, I didn't mean my post to come off sounding entitled or "my life is shit because of my childhood therefore I deserve" because I truly don't feel that way.

I've always told my mom to spend every last dime. It's her cash. She quickly blew through most of her own inheritance and sees how that can happen...

Her estate is at least a half-million, but one good illness and that would be gone, as it should be. 

If I cared about other people's money, I'd still have a relationship with my father. His estate will be multi-millions and probably left to the Republican Party or some such as I am an only child and last in that family line. Some things aren't worth all the money in the world. At all. If he wasn't an ass, he would leave part of the inherited family money to my kids, but that probably won't happen. He's special...

Thanks for the info Swamp. Interesting. I always figured they could fight no will more successfully than one where they were left nothing.

When they sued his wife's father's estate, the kids were clearly left nothing in the will and it ended up in court. The judge told them they were greedy, threw out their case, and I believe they ended up with some nice legal bills.   

My step-brother also sued the town where we grew up due to "reverse discrimination" in the 1980s when he mowed the parks. He was about 19 and they promoted someone non-white above him and he sued. He made a million or more from that. He's never needed the cash, he just believes everything belongs to him. 

When my step-father passed, he told my mom he wouldn't force the issue to get half of "his father's" estate for himself or his sister. My mom told him since she's living, there isn't step-father's "half" for him to come after... This is why they no longer have any relationship.

Death has taught me people are freaking crazy.

I know what you mean. When our dad passed, my oldest sister, who decided to quit working at 50 because it was too cold to get up in the morning and go out and get her car started to go to work, was mad when I told her my dad had a small insurance policy and it was all going to our Mom.

Big Sis thought Mom should divide up the whole estate between herself and her kids.  I told her the insurance policy was for our mom, not the kids.

Bib Sis managed to cry enough to mom about how broke she was and mom ended up sending her $1000, which Big Sis complained to me about as 'not being nearly enough' to help her with her overdue bills. I suggested to go back to work. We didn't talk for a while after that.

Ironically, five years later my Big Sis passed away without a will, and our mom inherited her estate, which was pretty much just the money I could get selling Big Sis's house (which was in tear down condition). If Mom didn't have that money, she would have run through her money living for 5 years in assisted living/ nursing home care. As it was, she had just enough money to live comfortably up to the end.

Big Sis would have hated knowing that her estate went to our mom - they did not get along at all, and Big Sis would have much preferred her money going to her nieces and nephews, or to a charity. She had occasionally talked to me about what she wanted to have happen, but never wrote a will, so Mom inherited all of it - which is why everyone needs a will!

 

[thyme4change]

The other part of estate planning is end-of-life stuff. That may include power of attorney and medical power of attorney. Your mom may want to lock down you as the person who makes decisions for her, if necessary. She may care about that more than what happens to her money after she is dust. It may motivate her to do something, even if the will doesn't.

I believe my Grandmother's end of life situation motivated my Mom to sign some documents. They seemed cool with distribution according to state law, but wanted to make sure we didn't have to deal with certain things when/if she becomes incapacitated at the end. And, while there, they did a will and a trust.

Incidentally, I am her medical POA, because I am the only one she trusts to pull the plug - my sisters are too sweet and caring to do so. So, that is my relationship with my Mom. 😏

[hoops902]

May 31, 2019 12:37:07 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The other part of estate planning is end-of-life stuff. That may include power of attorney and medical power of attorney. Your mom may want to lock down you as the person who makes decisions for her, if necessary. She may care about that more than what happens to her money after she is dust. It may motivate her to do something, even if the will doesn't.

I believe my Grandmother's end of life situation motivated my Mom to sign some documents. They seemed cool with distribution according to state law, but wanted to make sure we didn't have to deal with certain things when/if she becomes incapacitated at the end. And, while there, they did a will and a trust.

Incidentally, I am her medical POA, because I am the only one she trusts to pull the plug - my sisters are too sweet and caring to do so. So, that is my relationship with my Mom. 😏

The entire conversation with my mom on her medial POA went something like this:


Mom:  Should I name you or your brother as my medical POA?
Me:  Me if you wanna die because you have a cough, him if you want to live forever.

And that's how I became her medical POA.

[Bonny]

May 30, 2019 21:39:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 30, 2019 18:44:03 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I kind of like the "no will and do nothing" solution, but if you want things in writing and find the idea of taking Mom to talk to an attorney about estate planning too expensive or too intimidating (for one or both of you), when I was married to my first husband I used a program called Willmaker to write ours.  I knew he'd never be dragged to an attorney and figured a simple pair of wills was better than nothing, especially since we owned a house together and had a child.

The software leads you through a set of questions about you, your spouse, children, etc. and how you want your property divided- it's VERY simple for someone who has only one child and is leaving her everything. It then generates the will, you print it out and it's signed in the presence of witnesses (the number depends on your state).  You CANNOT be a witness if you're a beneficiary.  You should also think about whether you're willing to accept the duties of Executrix; the state can appoint a lawyer to do it but, as noted in the other thread, they can charge for their services.

Swamp may have an opinion on DIY wills and I can see one big disadvantage is that the stepkids will claim you railroaded her into it and she wasn't in her right mind.

Question:  what's the likelihood that Mom will need all her assets for LTC and there won't be anything left to fight over?

I hate DIY wills because something always gets fucked up.  Much easier to contest than a lawyer drawn will,which has a presumption of validity.   Since Shasta is an only child and there is no surviving spouse, I’d just let it ride. 

I agree with your assessment. The one drawback is that because there's a house presumably worth more than the small estates limit the house will have to go through probate. In California that's likely to take close to a year. Of course if there's a mortgage payments will need to be made during that time as well as taxes, insurance and maintenance to keep up the house.

My one recommendation would be for Shasta's mom to execute a beneficiary deed, a relatively new option in CA. Works just like a TOD bank account. Shasta's mom retains title to the house until her death when the property transfers to Shasta outside of probate. A paralegal or title person could draw up the document for less than $100.

[swamp]

May 31, 2019 12:52:24 GMT -5 Bonny said:

May 30, 2019 21:39:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I hate DIY wills because something always gets fucked up.  Much easier to contest than a lawyer drawn will,which has a presumption of validity.   Since Shasta is an only child and there is no surviving spouse, I’d just let it ride. 

I agree with your assessment. The one drawback is that because there's a house presumably worth more than the small estates limit the house will have to go through probate. In California that's likely to take close to a year. Of course if there's a mortgage payments will need to be made during that time as well as taxes, insurance and maintenance to keep up the house.

My one recommendation would be for Shasta's mom to execute a beneficiary deed, a relatively new option in CA. Works just like a TOD bank account. Shasta's mom retains title to the house until her death when the property transfers to Shasta outside of probate. A paralegal or title person could draw up the document for less than $100.

I do this in NY all the time, but Shasta gets medicaid.  bad idea right now.  

[Bonny]

May 31, 2019 13:18:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 31, 2019 12:52:24 GMT -5 Bonny said:

I agree with your assessment. The one drawback is that because there's a house presumably worth more than the small estates limit the house will have to go through probate. In California that's likely to take close to a year. Of course if there's a mortgage payments will need to be made during that time as well as taxes, insurance and maintenance to keep up the house.

My one recommendation would be for Shasta's mom to execute a beneficiary deed, a relatively new option in CA. Works just like a TOD bank account. Shasta's mom retains title to the house until her death when the property transfers to Shasta outside of probate. A paralegal or title person could draw up the document for less than $100.

I do this in NY all the time, but Shasta gets medicaid.  bad idea right now.  

I don't think Shasta will get kicked off of Medicaid until the property is actually transferred to her at TOD. Mom could sell long before death to go into assisted living.

She will get kicked off if she receives an inheritance although there are some ways around it. CA is unique on how it handles one-time windfalls. She definitely should see an eldercare attorney (or Legal Aid) about options when the time comes.

[swamp]

May 31, 2019 13:34:18 GMT -5 Bonny said:

May 31, 2019 13:18:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

I do this in NY all the time, but Shasta gets medicaid.  bad idea right now.  

I don't think Shasta will get kicked off of Medicaid until the property is actually transferred to her at TOD. Mom could sell long before death to go into assisted living.

She will get kicked off if she receives an inheritance although there are some ways around it. CA is unique on how it handles one-time windfalls. She definitely should see an eldercare attorney (or Legal Aid) about options when the time comes.

And it may be counted as an asset in some situations and could result in a disqualification or a lien.  I am not an attorney licensed to practice in CA, nor do I play one on TV.     

Again, I think she shouldn't kick this hornet's nest.    A power of attorney and a health care proxy/advance directive would be a great idea, though.  The will, meh.  Not having a will means there won't be a will contest.  

[happyhoix]

May 31, 2019 12:37:07 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The other part of estate planning is end-of-life stuff. That may include power of attorney and medical power of attorney. Your mom may want to lock down you as the person who makes decisions for her, if necessary. She may care about that more than what happens to her money after she is dust. It may motivate her to do something, even if the will doesn't.

I believe my Grandmother's end of life situation motivated my Mom to sign some documents. They seemed cool with distribution according to state law, but wanted to make sure we didn't have to deal with certain things when/if she becomes incapacitated at the end. And, while there, they did a will and a trust.

Incidentally, I am her medical POA, because I am the only one she trusts to pull the plug - my sisters are too sweet and caring to do so. So, that is my relationship with my Mom. 😏

Yes, the living will part is important because you can list what measures you want them to take to keep you alive.

When my mom (who had dementia, failing kidneys, heart and COPD) went into the hospital with kidney failure, among other things, the doctor talked about trying dialysis. Since she was no longer mobile, was incontinent and didn't recognize anyone anymore, we knew she would not want to extend her life through mechanical means, and fortunately we had her living will showing she didn't want artificial means to keep her alive.

Didn't really matter, since her veins wouldn't allow them to insert the needles required, but still, it gave us peace of mind knowing she was ok with it.