Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:05:43 GMT -5
"A woman who works 18 hours a day is an absentee mother, and a man who works the same hours is a good provider"
So will it ever be fair?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 4, 2011 9:10:00 GMT -5
No, it will never be fair.
I've never seen so much drama as women fighting over being a SAHM vs a working mom. You can't win no matter what you do. You can only chose your path and make the best choices for your family you can.
Luckily, my spouse is 110% supportive of my career and knows that when we (hopefully) have a baby that my career is just as important as his. To the haters, all I can do is shrug.
I think the last thread I remember about this on the old site went to be 100+ pages long about how there was "no such thing as a good day care" and "how could you let other people RAISE your children"... blah. Makes me sick the way we tear each other apart.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 4, 2011 9:13:21 GMT -5
Nope.
In all honesty, I would be a miserable SAHM. And that's not good for the kids either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:15:36 GMT -5
Depends on what your definition of is, is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:18:46 GMT -5
No - not until all couples split the household responsibilities equally, employers stop discriminating against working mothers, and childcare/schools become more worker bee friendly.
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kindthatjingles
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Post by kindthatjingles on Apr 4, 2011 9:26:47 GMT -5
I can tell you I have worked two different jobs since I have been a Mom. The first you could barely mention you had children. I was the only female Manager and the others the wives stayed at home. My child would get sick, and they could not understand why I needed to stay home. I left for the job I have now, I can leave whenever I need to,not miss anything and be there for them when they are sick. You better believe the paycheck reflects that
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 4, 2011 9:34:39 GMT -5
As it should
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:37:27 GMT -5
There is most definitely a double standard. If a guy leaves early to coach a kid's soccer game, he's a Good Daddy. If a woman leaves at the same time for the same reason, she's not taking her career seriously.
In my company, there's a cost to making it to the high ranks. Either you don't have kids, or you do but you rarely see them because you're traveling half the time and working late the rest of the time. That applies to both sexes but I think there's more of a stigma for women because societal expectations (and our own cultural conditioning) are that Mommy will always be there even if Daddy works long hours.
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Urban Chicago
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Post by Urban Chicago on Apr 4, 2011 9:41:07 GMT -5
No way you can win this one.
I thought I found a happy medium, working part-time, but there are some people on both sides who still complain that I'm either working too little (yeah, we're doing fine financially but we don't eat out all the time, wear expensive clothes, etc...) or that I'm away from the kids too much (2 or 3 days a week, and their grandmother is watching them, not a daycare).
In the end, I don't care, I just do what I can for my family.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 4, 2011 9:43:22 GMT -5
Nope you can't win and there is always someone who is waiting with baited breath to make you feel like shit.
I've decided that people who need to rip others apart are insecure about their own decisions and therefore need to shred other people so they feel validated in the choice that they made.
If you're confident you made the right choice you don't need to bash other people for making the opposite decision.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 4, 2011 9:44:13 GMT -5
Nope it won't be fair.
My husband left the workforce for several years, to get an advanced degree. After graduation, he became a SAHD.
When he started applying for a few part time jobs, people willingly looked over the fact that he had been out of the workforce for 4+ years, and admired him for being a SAHP.
Would a woman get "admired" for being SAHM and having no real work history for 4 years?
Fortunately, we both work at places that encourage a work/family life balance. However, my husband does only work part time so that he can take care of the kids when they are sick and take care of the home caring tasks, like laundry, grocery shopping, etc. My schedule doesn't really allow me to do much of that.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Apr 4, 2011 9:48:01 GMT -5
If a guy leaves early to coach a kid's soccer game, he's a Good Daddy.
He also worked through lunch in order to leave early.
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backontrack
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Post by backontrack on Apr 4, 2011 9:48:10 GMT -5
Yep, I have that constant tug. Feeling guilty for leaving work early and then feeling guilty because I didn’t get home soon enough to spend enough time with the kids. I am soooo lucky to work in a place where I can have a flexible schedule and where the people I work for are family-centric and support a work-life balance. So for me I try to reach a balance by doing conference calls while changing diapers, spending my lunch breaks running errands or doing something with the kids, and when I am not in the office, checking the blackberry whenever I have a chance – days off, nights, weekends. In a way I’m on call for both work and the kids all the time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 4, 2011 10:12:13 GMT -5
Men who work 18 hours a day pay the price with their relationship with their kids and their wife. Don't fool yourself into thinking that men can work 80 or 90 hours a week (or even 65 or 75 hours a week) and get praised for it. It rarely works out for them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 4, 2011 10:20:26 GMT -5
If a guy leaves early to coach a kid's soccer game, he's a Good Daddy.He also worked through lunch in order to leave early. And so did the woman.....
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 4, 2011 10:23:56 GMT -5
And so did the womanNo she didn't, she was at the salon gabbing and getting her nails done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 10:26:45 GMT -5
DH and I both have the goal of me working part time and raising the baby; unfortunately this area's COL will not allow for that, so for now I will continue working. I find that it works best to ignore most of what other people think, but I agree with the OP - we can't really have it all: we're either seen as mothers or workers, not both.
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Apr 4, 2011 11:03:23 GMT -5
It will occasionally be fair within the context of the family unit - a lot of people will come to an arrangement that is fair for their family. In the greater context of how society sees it - no, it will never been seen as "fair."
I think that's how you need to approach it - do what works for you, not what someone else tells you should do - and by the same measure, admit that what works for you won't work for everyone else, and support other people in the choices that work for them.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 4, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
If a guy leaves early to coach a kid's soccer game, he's a Good Daddy.He also worked through lunch in order to leave early. Exhibit A....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 4, 2011 11:20:36 GMT -5
Life will never be fair. If life is going to be fair, the first thing all Americans have to do is send 75% of our wealth to the worst areas of the world. I'm a working mom - I'll take the how "unfair" my life is any day of the week. I am crystal clear that I'm on the winning end of that equation.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 4, 2011 11:26:24 GMT -5
I must be super lucky because the only guilt trips I get are my own. I'm at the same company, but have moved offices. My last office we were with more operations people. I didn't directly report to them, but I did feel guilty when I'd come in late or leave early. It was 100% women, and most had kids, but they were older. My boss trusts me to get my job done. If I can do it in under 40 hours a week that's fine. If I need to work from home or come back in the evening/weekend he knows that I will. I agree with Thyme--I don't know anyone that thinks that a parent working 18 hours a day has a good relationship with their kids regardless of gender. Sometimes you have to do it, (so I'm not judging those that do), but you will pay for it somewhere. DH and I work opposite shifts, so we're both 'primary child care' for our son. DH gets together during the week with a couple other dad's/kids that have similar arrangements.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Apr 4, 2011 11:57:59 GMT -5
my spouse is 110% supportive of my career He must be a coach?
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Apr 4, 2011 12:17:23 GMT -5
"A woman who works 18 hours a day is an absentee mother, and a man who works the same hours is a good provider" So will it ever be fair? Did you watch Body of Proof last night or something? That's the line Dana Delaney threw out in the first episode when she was explaining why her ex had custody of their daughter.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 4, 2011 12:50:36 GMT -5
Why do people feel like they have to justify their lives to others anyway? I will live how I want to. If we work FT, PT or not at all what does it matter to anyone else as long as we are paying our own way? Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 4, 2011 12:55:35 GMT -5
my spouse is 110% supportive of my career He must be a coach? Hah, we both do the same thing, but my career is actually more important than his (to him).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 13:19:11 GMT -5
Did you watch Body of Proof last night or something? That's the line Dana Delaney threw out in the first episode when she was explaining why her ex had custody of their daughter. Yep, my wife and I was watching it last night. She lost custody because she was a neurosurgeron working 18 hours day. And that started a conversation with my wife... and she said it's most the truth and she sees it at her job. Women that are career oriented and have kids are looked at differently for working long hours compared to their males counterpart that are also career oriented and have kids/family.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 4, 2011 13:25:10 GMT -5
I agree that society looks differently at men and women when it comes to working and raising kids, however, custody is probably a whole different deal. A guy who was trying to get sole custody of a kid when he routinely worked 18 hours a day probably wouldn't stand a chance either. When there are two parents at home who both work there's probably some bias to accept the man putting in more hours. When you're talking a single parent working crazy hours, I think men and women would both be equally screwed.
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strider
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Post by strider on Apr 4, 2011 14:15:39 GMT -5
No it's not fair and it is a double standard. However my mom stayed at home and worked so she was able to make it work to the best of her abilities. She didn't make alot but she made a little money and helped us develop and grow up as well.
I think women have a very distinct advantage in custody though. The mother practically has to be either a drug user or very abusive to lose custody. If both parents are on equal footing the guy getting sole custody will have practically no shot at all.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 5, 2011 8:42:25 GMT -5
Snerdley - I like you DH and I are both working FT, and will continue to do so once baby girl arrives. MIL/my mom will be watching her for us. I have had people even make comments about that ("Oh, too cheap to pay for daycare so you con your mom into watching her?"). Geeze - we will be taking care of our family in the best way that we can. Maybe everyone else should go attend to their bratty children & stop trying to tell us what to do! ;D
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Post by tea4me on Apr 5, 2011 8:49:22 GMT -5
I get a kick out of the SAHMs that put on FB: I am a nurse, doctor, teacher, psychologist, housekeeper, cook, blah, blah, blah, 24 hours a day because I am a stay at home mom. I never get a vacation or sick days, blah, blah, blah.
I always want to ask them what kind of pay and benefits they get with that. ;D
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