Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 1, 2011 9:55:49 GMT -5
I’d say it’s a cultural thing. We (Americans) tend to believe that certain jobs (those paying minimum wage or close to it) are not worthy of us. You don’t have to go far to find this attitude. We’ve even seen it plenty on these boards. How many times do we see people post “love doesn’t pay the bills.” It’s common to see people (mostly women) complain about their husband’s lack of earning power and how they hate being the breadwinner, he’s not contributing enough financially even though he has a job. Still others say they won’t date people who don’t earn very much or work at a low paid position. Is it any wonder when society looks down on you and you’re a social pariah who’s not worthy of love and respect that people wouldn’t want to take these jobs? I remember one poster who was complaining her BF was a clerk for the government and saying she was too good for his income. We raise kids to be princes and princesses.
I do see the hypocrisy on this board some (not anyone specific, just in general). We think people should do any job they can but when it’s our husband, wife, or other family member then they need to contribute a lot financially.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 10:09:45 GMT -5
It's a work ethic thing and it crosses cultures and generations. My ex-husband and his sister were raised upper middle class- house in Bergen County, NJ with swimming pool, nice cars, good schools, the whole nine yards. He had a very elevated sense of what he was entitled to and would never have taken a job he considered beneath him- it was easier for him to sit in his rear end while I went to work to pay the bills.
His sister, OTOH, got a job at an investment firm with a man she eventually married. They decided to start a business and really struggled. She told me that at one point, they were seriously considering having her pick up a waitress job to bring in cash. I know her and she would have done it- but the cash flow started getting better and now they could buy and sell all of us 10 times over.
Having done waitress work when I was 16, I greatly respect people who have jobs that are not only hard to do, but pay crappy wages, carry no benefits and involve working with the public. I just hope I never have to take one of those jobs again but if I did, I would.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Apr 1, 2011 10:20:37 GMT -5
I think she is just spoiled. It was her parents responsibility to teach her that any hard days work is respectable. My parents owned a business for many years while I was growing up. I worked there on school vacations, and on Saturdays. If we wanted to buy something extra, they let us know that they would be happy to pay us if we came in. I almost always took them up on this - why sit around on the weekend unpaid when there's money to be made?
Also, my grandfather is from the West Indies, and he constantly makes fun of me and my cousins for only having one job. In our part of Queens, anyone from the islands is notorious for having multiple jobs, and/or side hustles. My brother, a senior in high school now, bakes 2dz cupcakes every night and sells them to his classmates for $1 each. Extra $120/week.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 1, 2011 10:32:16 GMT -5
Don't you think this a bit melodramatic? It doesn't sound like she is on the throes of desperation or a lifetime of unemployment. There were periods of my life when I was between jobs. There were times when my sis moved home for a a period as well. That doesn't mean she is going to become a bum. Sheesh. But, so what if she does anyway? It really isn't anyone's business but hers and her parents. And, further, when i was a teen, my dad bought and started a small grocery store, i think i worked in it twice and i didn't like and he didn't make me work in it. I seemed to have managed to grow up, have a good career and start my own business. I don't think it so much that he is being melodramatic but noticing that she is not willing to work at an occupation she didn't go to school for, and for family at that, while she is subbing and trying to get a full-time job in education. My cousin was the same way, married, two children, tons of debt and she ended up being laid off after more than 10 years on her job. I was helping out sending job leads, and her attitude was like, I have a masters! My response to her is that you have two children and there shouldn't be anything you won't do for your children, let alone her husband, since it was her spending that got them into so much debt in the first place. Her losing her job was definitely not a good thing. She is employed now, but not for what she got her degree in but what she was experienced in, commercial collections. If your wife's cousin doesn't have responsibilites, like children, so maybe she can afford to be a bit picky, but if my parents needed help, whether cleanin the house or standing behind a counter at a bakery, I would do it.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 1, 2011 10:37:38 GMT -5
I did not tell her to drop her life goals of becoming a teach or principal (she wants to be a principal one day) but she was complaining about money and both my wife and I (my wife used to work at the bareky also during college to make $$$ money) suggested she picked a few extra shifts at the bakery to make ends meet. I am sure her parents would say yes because they are short handed currently, have to work long hours and better yet she makes some extra money on top of the substituting. Her response came and I just stop feeling sorry for her. I think, and it is based on my observation from having my own children in school, that those types of teachers that want to hurry up and jump to principal don't make very good teachers. I think principal applicants need to teach a number of years before being allowed to become a principal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 10:46:03 GMT -5
I think, and it is based on my observation from having my own children in school, that those types of teachers that want to hurry up and jump to principal don't make very good teachers. I think principal applicants need to teach a number of years before being allowed to become a principal. I don't think she thinks she is going to be a principa right off the bat or hurry it up but it is more like an end goal, career advancement somewhat. To get there she would need to not only find a job as a teacher but also teach for a couple of years.
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iono1
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Post by iono1 on Apr 1, 2011 11:01:49 GMT -5
Cawiau, We have some things in common. I'm from LI, and ended up in upstate NY. I think it's quite overwhelming to be in LI in a tough job market & realize that the cost of living is so high that when you're starting out it's virtually impossible to find a place where you can be truly independent.
32 years ago I was in a similar situation as your relative is. There were some differences, like I had already begun a career and the got fired, but the similarities were I was living at my parents' house, not making any money & holding out for the job that I wanted. My father had a similar attitude as you do and used to get on my case, asking me if I had any self respect, etc, while I felt that the only way I could maintain my self respect was to keep looking in my chosen profession. Finally, my father contacted someone he knew & got me a job at this loading dock-something that is a totally different skill set than what I have and that I'm terrible at doing. I interviewed for the job, accepted it and when I got home I was beyond miserable. All I could do was cry and my mother finally said to me that I didn't have to take the job. I called the guy up and told him I wouldn't be working there & felt better. For a few months I worked temporary jobs then moved out of LI back upstate where I could get my chosen job. The job didn't pay much, but the cost of living decrease more than made up for it. I ended up having a career instead of a job and did quite well. In the end holding out for the right career was the right choice. You're in a quite different situation than she is. She is apparently single, you're married. That's a very different set of responsibilities and you have a much higher need for money now than she does. I respect her decision to hold out because in her case, she can, and in my case, holding out was the right decision to make.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 11:08:48 GMT -5
In order to be a principal, in my state, you have to have a Principal's Certification which is additional schooling. It isn't like you just rise through the ranks anymore. Same with being a Super. I don't know the rules for NY or Long Island for that matter. I did not say it was the job she was looking to get but that was her wish/goal: to be a Principal one day. I am sure if that remain the case she will have no issue getting the needed certification and additional schooling.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 1, 2011 11:30:44 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much a culture or generation thing, but a work ethic thing.
This. I see it the way you do, and I get annoyed with people who are too good to do jobs that pay the rent. I've had as many crap jobs as anyone, but I did what I had to do to support myself, even when it would have been okay to ask for help.
I'm going to teach my kids to do the same because it made me a better person in the long run. Being coddled does not incentivize.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 1, 2011 11:35:42 GMT -5
I'm starting to think it is a "the women in your wife's family" thing.
...:::"Listening to your parents tell you for 20 years to be something better than a baker could solidify in your mind that the job is beneath you, or not what you spent so much time in school for.":::...
I'm convinced this is why we overeat too. After spending our formative years hearing "you better clean your plate" at every meal, I can't leave food.
If this bakery is paying a mortgage, grad school tuition, and so on, it must be doing pretty well and she should want to keep it running. Much more than some "dumb retail job".
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 1, 2011 11:42:06 GMT -5
Not to mention the simple fact that hello, this business is the reason she got to go to grad school in the first place. I don't think she realizes how privileged she is, or how much she owes to her success other than her own efforts.
If she were working her dream job in her field, then fine. But as long as she's just twiddling her thumbs, there's no reason she can't be giving back at least a few days a week.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Apr 1, 2011 12:14:04 GMT -5
" If I was hiring a teacher for elementary or high school, and I had the choice between bachelors degree and PhD"
Usually, the PhD is in administration. There are probably very few classroom teachers(K-12) with PhDs.......
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Apr 1, 2011 12:17:22 GMT -5
"Nephew and Niece both say that school districts shy away from hiring teachers with Master's degrees right out of college b/c they have no classroom experience but the union contracts require them to pay them more than someone with a BS and prob teaching experinece to boot. "
NY State requires teachers get their Master's within 5 years of starting to teach. Many new teachers finish their Masters before they begin to work. At least here in NY that premise is wrong. Teaching candidates with Masters degrees DO NOT cause prospective school districts to "shy away" from them.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Apr 1, 2011 12:20:13 GMT -5
" I greatly respect people who have jobs that are not only hard to do, but pay crappy wages, carry no benefits and involve working with the public."
Why is someone who has that type of job automatically worthy of respect? I don't understand?
What's the thrust...the more money one commands in the workplace the less "respect" they deserve?
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cael
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Post by cael on Apr 1, 2011 12:37:06 GMT -5
I have a friend who has that 'some jobs are beneath me' attitude. He's an only child, a mommy's boy, really coddled, and always told he *deserves* better etc. Classic example of this kid - when he was finishing college up he was taking a math class, and was aggravated because he got a D on a test (was having a tough time getting the work). I told him to chill.... he told me he was pissed because he felt he deserved a better grade. I asked if he'd looked into extra help from the professor - no. I asked if he'd been to the math lab for some tutoring - no. Then I asked him why he thought he deserved a better grade if he didn't even bother to get any help. He didn't really answer me but saw my point. It makes me so aggro because this is how he is in his whole life. He's working part time at Radioshack right now with a bachelor's degree he'll never use, living at home, and pining away about being in a "rut" and not knowing what to do with his life. He's almost 28. Oh, and he spends his money on pointless crap all the time. He wants a full time job desperately but only applies for jobs he thinks he'd like or could do, which leaves out a ton of jobs he *should* apply for, but his pride won't let him.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 1, 2011 12:44:42 GMT -5
He's an only child....
Cael, please don't take this the wrong way but I really dislike this stereotype of only children. It's possible you just meant it descriptively but in context, it sounds like the popular refrain of "all only children are spoiled mama's boys / daddy's girls."
I'm an only child and I know several other only children, and none of us are actually like this (while I've known of a few others that were, it's hardly limited to onlies). So the image kind of bothers me.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 1, 2011 12:47:25 GMT -5
I'm an only child and I know several other only children, and none of us are actually like this I don't know you are having a wedding. ..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 12:48:50 GMT -5
I'm an only child and I know several other only children, and none of us are actually like this I don't know you are having a wedding. .. LOL *Karma*
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cael
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Post by cael on Apr 1, 2011 12:53:32 GMT -5
Sorry Firebird, wasn't trying to stereotype it - I know some onlies who aren't like that! I do know others who are though. It is one significant reason why this friend of mine is the way he is though. Seriously. You don't know his parents, they're like, creepy they're so coddly and enabling and who knows, maybe if he had sibs it would've been different - or it wouldn't have been and all their kids would've ended up like that! I have a friend whose younger sister is exactly like this, and she clearly isn't an only!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 1, 2011 12:58:20 GMT -5
I'm an only child and I know several other only children, and none of us are actually like this I don't know you are having a wedding. .. LOL *Karma* This, totally. I gave you karma too! ;D
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 1, 2011 12:59:34 GMT -5
Sorry Firebird, wasn't trying to stereotype it - I know some onlies who aren't like that! I do know others who are though. It is one significant reason why this friend of mine is the way he is though. Seriously. You don't know his parents, they're like, creepy they're so coddly and enabling and who knows, maybe if he had sibs it would've been different - or it wouldn't have been and all their kids would've ended up like that!For sure, parents of onlies can really shelter and coddle them - but that's true of a lot of other birth orders, as you noted I'm not offended, no worries. Just wanted to do my part for my fellow lonely onlies. We tend to get bad PR.
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cael
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Post by cael on Apr 1, 2011 13:04:55 GMT -5
Don't mean to contribute to any bad PR! ;D
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Post by farmerzwife on Apr 1, 2011 21:49:37 GMT -5
completely off subject, but, cawiau, is your dog a Maltese or a Havanese? There is a great product available at most vet's offices called Angel's Glow that will clear up eye stain. It's a powder that you sprinkle on their food. You can also use Tylan (available at farm supply stores) in their drinking water. Less expensive, but is a little bitter so usually doesn't work quite as well. I hope you do not take offense at the suggestion. I love my dogs and this works great on them!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2011 22:17:31 GMT -5
completely off subject, but, cawiau, is your dog a Maltese or a Havanese? There is a great product available at most vet's offices called Angel's Glow that will clear up eye stain. It's a powder that you sprinkle on their food. You can also use Tylan (available at farm supply stores) in their drinking water. Less expensive, but is a little bitter so usually doesn't work quite as well. I hope you do not take offense at the suggestion. I love my dogs and this works great on them! Thanks and he is a Maltesse and Shit tzu
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suziq38
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Post by suziq38 on Apr 2, 2011 1:57:36 GMT -5
Sorry, but your cousin is an idiot. I would charge her rent to live at home. Sounds like my two sisters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 7:36:50 GMT -5
Why is someone who has that type of job (crappy) automatically worthy of respect? I don't understand? What's the thrust...the more money one commands in the workplace the less "respect" they deserve? Well, I can hardly agree with the second part since I make a lot of money! I just feel that people who do work for little money and do their best at it have a good work ethic. We have so many financial incentives in this country to sit at home and collect from the government and make excuses. In my job, working conditions are pretty good. No dealing with customers, I'm in a clean office, I can work at home when I feel like it, I have sick days and vacation days. It's easy to brush off the few aggravations because I make good money and we live well. I respect people who put up with much harder working conditions for less money but still do the best job they can. A story about DS that's another counter to the "only child" stereotype: he got one job in college at a grocery store. Sometimes they expected him to come in at 5:30 AM and when that was part of the job, that was what he did. I told him how impressed DH and I were with his work ethic and he said, "Well, Mom, I remember how hard you worked to support us when you were a single mother". It was so sweet! I told him that compared to most single mothers, I'd had it pretty good.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Apr 3, 2011 7:16:51 GMT -5
Generational, they are lazy and think they are entitled
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