Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 14, 2018 10:48:32 GMT -5
Was Another F.B.I. Agent Thrown Under the Bus for Trump? The president, of course, can’t help himself. Within an hour of Mr. Strzok’s firing, he took to Twitter, crowing over the defeat of his latest whipping boy and hinting that the Russia probe should be tossed along with Mr. Strzok. This, ultimately, is the core of the smallness and viciousness of the Strzok affair. His dismissal will not make the Russia investigation go away. At the end of the day, he was thrown into the grist mill of pro-Trump media and chewed to pieces by Fox News and House Republicans for a few months’ worth of cynical, lucrative outrage. But his humiliation is also a message to public servants: Here’s what will happen to you if you cross the president.www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/opinion/peter-strzok-fbi-trump-russia.html |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 11:17:20 GMT -5
Yes everyone is correct. I was incorrect to say justice was dealt. Until Strzok is jailed justice is not served.  in order to go to jail, he has to be tried. on what charge? being a big meanie to doofus?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 11:19:02 GMT -5
Heaven forbid I should text my opinion of a politician while at work! DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THE LEADER  HAIL THE LEADER!  HAIL VICTORY!  This is what I don't get about the whole 'lovers in the FBI thing' - Trump and the Trumpettes seem to think that the career government workers are somehow obligated to swear fidelity and a blood oath to slavishly adore and obey whoever is president at that moment.
It doesn't work that way. We don't swap out all the government employees when a new president takes office, and we don't require that all the government employees support the president. Government employees are only obligated to do their job in a nonpartisan way. (I know that's hard for Trump to understand, because he keeps trying to fire any Obama era hold overs and replace them with his own 'very high quality' toadies - but any other American citizen must have figured out at this point that their postal delivery guy doesn't change every time a new POTUS takes office).
It really isn't illegal for two government employees to bitch privately about the POTUS.
this might be a good time to mention that MOST law enforcement officials are Republican. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 11:21:36 GMT -5
That's right, But, being one of those virtually at the top of the FBI,,does a Federal investigation, I expect far more of a neutral position than Strzok. this was already investigated. Strzok was found to act without bias. what has been done here is to create a fiction, and fire him on that basis. this seems like a reprisal firing. can he seek reinstatement for it?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2018 11:25:36 GMT -5
A tweet today referring to the next latest on fired one, comments from the Donald...the countries leader...one I would gladly go over the top with him leading..[cough, cough...excuse...cough, cough...  ] "“When you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and give her a job at the White House, I guess it just didn’t work out,” Trump tweeted. “Good work by General Kelly for quickly firing that dog!" "crazed......a dog"....So presidential....  he only hires the best. |
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Post by Opti on Aug 14, 2018 11:26:04 GMT -5
Actually, this is something that falls under the jurisdiction of the National Labor Relations board, I believe.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Aug 14, 2018 11:41:07 GMT -5
That's right, But, being one of those virtually at the top of the FBI,,does a Federal investigation, I expect far more of a neutral position than Strzok. this was already investigated. Strzok was found to act without bias. what has been done here is to create a fiction, and fire him on that basis. this seems like a reprisal firing. can he seek reinstatement for it?
According to one article... "Strzok was fired late Friday by FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich, said his lawyer, Aitan Goelman. He said the 21-year veteran of the FBI was removed because of political pressure and "to punish Special Agent Strzok for political speech protected by the First Amendment."
Goelman also said the FBI had overruled the agency's Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, which he said had determined that a 60-day suspension and demotion from supervisory duties was "the appropriate punishment." as u can see , different opinions on the firing and punishment....being a 21 year employee...to have worked himself up to that high position through the ranks...he must have been a superior employee / agent. As said some where else...seems he has the time in...hopefully he will be eligible for his pension...might need his attorneys to fight for that...which if he does..it means government will be spending $ to fight the case...again, extra $ spent by gov't from our golf and extra traveling Donald...whats a few more $ in debt to him correct? |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 11:43:51 GMT -5
this was already investigated. Strzok was found to act without bias. what has been done here is to create a fiction, and fire him on that basis. this seems like a reprisal firing. can he seek reinstatement for it?
According to one article... "Strzok was fired late Friday by FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich, said his lawyer, Aitan Goelman. He said the 21-year veteran of the FBI was removed because of political pressure and "to punish Special Agent Strzok for political speech protected by the First Amendment."
Goelman also said the FBI had overruled the agency's Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, which he said had determined that a 60-day suspension and demotion from supervisory duties was "the appropriate punishment." i would be interested in seeing any and all cases where the OPR was overruled in the past. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 11:44:52 GMT -5
Actually, this is something that falls under the jurisdiction of the National Labor Relations board, I believe. i would like to see him reinstated. as far as i can tell, he is good at his job, and we need all the competent heads in that division that we can find. |
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 14, 2018 12:18:42 GMT -5
Eh, I kind of don't care about this one way or another. I'm sure he was a great employee, and was able to act without bias, but he's also kind of a dumb ass for "talking shit about the boss on a company phone." I don't know if firing was the best way to go, but if I got caught texting my coworkers and talking shit about my boss on a company phone, I'm pretty sure I would be in some trouble too.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2018 12:22:57 GMT -5
Eh, I kind of don't care about this one way or another. I'm sure he was a great employee, and was able to act without bias, but he's also kind of a dumb ass for "talking shit about the boss on a company phone." I don't know if firing was the best way to go, but if I got caught texting my coworkers and talking shit about my boss on a company phone, I'm pretty sure I would be in some trouble too. if it were me being the target of the shit talk, i would have two reactions: 1) first of all, i don't consider company phones used off hours to be much concern to me unless it affects my business. that is a higher standard of proof than the one used here. 2) if, for some reason, this breach of personal privacy had teeth, and i found out about this, i would not be pleased and would probably NOTE it in his or her employment folder. if further incidences or an evidence of a contagion of negativity persisted, it would be a firing offense. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 14, 2018 12:25:25 GMT -5
Actually, if he was a good judge, he could set aside his personal feelings, or, if he couldn't, he would recuse himself from the case and let someone else decide it.
Good judges, and good DOJ employees, are those employees who are not seeking to screw over someone just because of their political views, or because of things they might have said or done on the public record. Good judges and good DOJ employees seek justice. That means if they find proof that someone did not act in an illegal way, they do not prosecute them, but if they do find illegal acts, they will prosecute them. The world is just legal vs illegal, to those kinds of people. Politics and catering to certain people don't enter into it. (Even Sessions, Trump's prime toady, did the correct legal thing in recusing himself, even knowing that Trump would have a melt down).
That's not to say there aren't bad apples in the DOJ, just like there are in other professions, but Trump seems to believe anyone in the DOJ who does not toady to him is corrupt and needs to be jailed, but that's not true. They are there to seek justice. Period. If the president hasn't done anything wrong, he has nothing to worry about. If he has, then he should be worried - but it's not the DOJ's responsibility to cover up his crimes for him, out of a sense of loyalty. This isn't a monarchy where we pretend not to know that the king has knocked up all the serving wenches, out of loyalty to his position.
Just out of curiosity, if you knew O.C was investigating something you were accused of,, I am sure that you would believe O.C. could put aside any difference in views!
It would depend on your reputation in your job.
If you were a corrupt Sheriff known to accept bribes and then look the other way, I would be nervous if you decided I had done anything wrong.
If, however, you're like most Sheriffs and your reputation is that you are fair and on the side of justice, I wouldn't be worried, even if you personally didn't like me - even if you hated me - because I would know that you kept your professional judgment and personal biases separate.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Aug 14, 2018 14:48:30 GMT -5
This is what I don't get about the whole 'lovers in the FBI thing' - Trump and the Trumpettes seem to think that the career government workers are somehow obligated to swear fidelity and a blood oath to slavishly adore and obey whoever is president at that moment.
It doesn't work that way. We don't swap out all the government employees when a new president takes office, and we don't require that all the government employees support the president. Government employees are only obligated to do their job in a nonpartisan way. (I know that's hard for Trump to understand, because he keeps trying to fire any Obama era hold overs and replace them with his own 'very high quality' toadies - but any other American citizen must have figured out at this point that their postal delivery guy doesn't change every time a new POTUS takes office).
It really isn't illegal for two government employees to bitch privately about the POTUS.
this might be a good time to mention that MOST law enforcement officials are Republican. hmmm...is the reason for , it seems, a over abundance of folks, so many of color , black/brown, being shot in the back as they seem to be running away, or reaching for cell phones or actually doing what police officers are ordering them to do...? Just saying... I believe these happenings are what the ball players are demonstrating against when they take a knee when Anthem is played. It has nothing to do with anti patriotism that our Donald keeps bringing up. He knows his base eats that crap up so as he does so well...he panders to them...the 35%... The rest of us...  |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 14, 2018 15:59:37 GMT -5
If the tiki torch nazi could get fired when his picture was posted online, then this guy can get fired, too.
Now that it is taken care of, the investigation can continue. Oh wait. It can't because the guy wasn't fired fast enough? Seriously?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 14, 2018 18:02:16 GMT -5
This is what I don't get about the whole 'lovers in the FBI thing' - Trump and the Trumpettes seem to think that the career government workers are somehow obligated to swear fidelity and a blood oath to slavishly adore and obey whoever is president at that moment.
It doesn't work that way. We don't swap out all the government employees when a new president takes office, and we don't require that all the government employees support the president. Government employees are only obligated to do their job in a nonpartisan way. (I know that's hard for Trump to understand, because he keeps trying to fire any Obama era hold overs and replace them with his own 'very high quality' toadies - but any other American citizen must have figured out at this point that their postal delivery guy doesn't change every time a new POTUS takes office).
It really isn't illegal for two government employees to bitch privately about the POTUS.
this might be a good time to mention that MOST law enforcement officials are Republican. So according to some here that would mean that we'll need to fire MOST law enforcement officials when the next elected president is a Democrat right? Or should the NSA record all calls made by law enforcement officials on their official devices so we can delve through those to see who needs to be fired whenever an election has been held?
Do the Strumpettes even realize how idiotic this sounds? Yet when it suits their desires...
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 15, 2018 8:43:46 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, if you knew O.C was investigating something you were accused of,, I am sure that you would believe O.C. could put aside any difference in views!
It would depend on your reputation in your job.
If you were a corrupt Sheriff known to accept bribes and then look the other way, I would be nervous if you decided I had done anything wrong.
If, however, you're like most Sheriffs and your reputation is that you are fair and on the side of justice, I wouldn't be worried, even if you personally didn't like me - even if you hated me - because I would know that you kept your professional judgment and personal biases separate.
You are in Sheriff Joe's territory,,,,You are a brown person, you have now been stopped by one of his deputies for a tail light being out in the middle of the day. Or, You have saved up your cash, you are on your way to buy a collector car, or a piece of business or you have your cash winning from a poker tournament,, You get stopped the police,, have life saving confiscated. And Locally Andrew Thomas Maricopa County Prosecutor and his Henchmen. That decides to arrest a bunch of innocent people! Lois Lerner,, How long of a list do you want?? Or how about You are a Known Trump supporter in court for failure to whatever, we find Dezii on the jury!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 15, 2018 10:37:31 GMT -5
It would depend on your reputation in your job.
If you were a corrupt Sheriff known to accept bribes and then look the other way, I would be nervous if you decided I had done anything wrong.
If, however, you're like most Sheriffs and your reputation is that you are fair and on the side of justice, I wouldn't be worried, even if you personally didn't like me - even if you hated me - because I would know that you kept your professional judgment and personal biases separate.
You are in Sheriff Joe's territory,,,,You are a brown person, you have now been stopped by one of his deputies for a tail light being out in the middle of the day. Or, You have saved up your cash, you are on your way to buy a collector car, or a piece of business or you have your cash winning from a poker tournament,, You get stopped the police,, have life saving confiscated. And Locally Andrew Thomas Maricopa County Prosecutor and his Henchmen. That decides to arrest a bunch of innocent people! Lois Lerner,, How long of a list do you want?? Or how about You are a Known Trump supporter in court for failure to whatever, we find Dezii on the jury!
Because there are some corrupt sheriffs we should get rid of all sheriffs and just dwell in anarchy?
What about trying to weed out the bad sheriffs instead?
And because there were two FBI agents texting private anti-Trump messages to each other, that means the DOJ is corrupt and the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt?
And your comment about Dezii being on the jury - we're not talking about jurors, who are a whole other kettle of fish. We're talking about public servants who are obligated to remain unbiased, and who will lose their jobs if they are proven to have acted in a partisan manner.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 15, 2018 10:44:58 GMT -5
You are in Sheriff Joe's territory,,,,You are a brown person, you have now been stopped by one of his deputies for a tail light being out in the middle of the day. Or, You have saved up your cash, you are on your way to buy a collector car, or a piece of business or you have your cash winning from a poker tournament,, You get stopped the police,, have life saving confiscated. And Locally Andrew Thomas Maricopa County Prosecutor and his Henchmen. That decides to arrest a bunch of innocent people! Lois Lerner,, How long of a list do you want?? Or how about You are a Known Trump supporter in court for failure to whatever, we find Dezii on the jury!
Because there are some corrupt sheriffs we should get rid of all sheriffs and just dwell in anarchy?
What about trying to weed out the bad sheriffs instead?
And because there were two FBI agents texting private anti-Trump messages to each other, that means the DOJ is corrupt and the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt?
And your comment about Dezii being on the jury - we're not talking about jurors, who are a whole other kettle of fish. We're talking about public servants who are obligated to remain unbiased, and who will lose their jobs if they are proven to have acted in a partisan manner.
Unbiased ?? how about this? |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 15, 2018 10:51:22 GMT -5
If personal belief can easily be put aside,,,, why would there be any controversy over the Supreme Court nomination?? After all ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he is a professional,,, Right??
His personal beliefs mean nothing,, what ever they may be!
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Aug 15, 2018 10:58:55 GMT -5
Because there are some corrupt sheriffs we should get rid of all sheriffs and just dwell in anarchy?
What about trying to weed out the bad sheriffs instead?
And because there were two FBI agents texting private anti-Trump messages to each other, that means the DOJ is corrupt and the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt?
And your comment about Dezii being on the jury - we're not talking about jurors, who are a whole other kettle of fish. We're talking about public servants who are obligated to remain unbiased, and who will lose their jobs if they are proven to have acted in a partisan manner.
Unbiased ?? how about this? Not quite sure how I got into this act but if in a jury pool and if defense attorney not smart enough to figure me out...chosen to be on jury and it's brought out the defendant is a lover of the Donald...of course he /she is guilty...no other way to go.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 15, 2018 11:32:11 GMT -5
It would depend on your reputation in your job.
If you were a corrupt Sheriff known to accept bribes and then look the other way, I would be nervous if you decided I had done anything wrong.
If, however, you're like most Sheriffs and your reputation is that you are fair and on the side of justice, I wouldn't be worried, even if you personally didn't like me - even if you hated me - because I would know that you kept your professional judgment and personal biases separate.
You are in Sheriff Joe's territory,,,,You are a brown person, you have now been stopped by one of his deputies for a tail light being out in the middle of the day. Or, You have saved up your cash, you are on your way to buy a collector car, or a piece of business or you have your cash winning from a poker tournament,, You get stopped the police,, have life saving confiscated. And Locally Andrew Thomas Maricopa County Prosecutor and his Henchmen. That decides to arrest a bunch of innocent people! Lois Lerner,, How long of a list do you want?? Or how about You are a Known Trump supporter in court for failure to whatever, we find Dezii on the jury!
Wasn't "Sherriff Joe" recently pardoned by that paragon of ethics squatting in the White House? And you use him as a example  |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 15, 2018 11:38:55 GMT -5
If personal belief can easily be put aside,,,, why would there be any controversy over the Supreme Court nomination?? After all ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he is a professional,,, Right??
His personal beliefs mean nothing,, what ever they may be!
With the current nominee for the Supreme Court, I read about efforts to research his previous professional activities ( link) but have not seen efforts to look at his personal email accounts. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 15, 2018 11:58:56 GMT -5
If personal belief can easily be put aside,,,, why would there be any controversy over the Supreme Court nomination?? After all ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he is a professional,,, Right??
His personal beliefs mean nothing,, what ever they may be!
what if i were to say that we should wait until after the election to see how voters feel about this candidate? |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 15, 2018 12:01:38 GMT -5
Cool car interlude Senna McLaren, named after an exceptional driver 
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 15, 2018 22:18:58 GMT -5
We have all kind of people telling that us that people like Stzok puts his personal feeling aside during this investigation!!! Yes,, in the same frame of mind, Brett Kavanagh most certainly can set aside any personal thought.. After all he is about to become a Supreme Professional!
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 15, 2018 22:26:47 GMT -5
We have all kind of people telling that us that people like Stzok puts his personal feeling aside during this investigation!!! Yes,, in the same frame of mind, Brett Kavanagh most certainly can set aside any personal thought.. After all he is about to become a Supreme Professional!
It doesn't fit their narrative |
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 15, 2018 23:06:30 GMT -5
We have all kind of people telling that us that people like Stzok puts his personal feeling aside during this investigation!!! Yes,, in the same frame of mind, Brett Kavanagh most certainly can set aside any personal thought.. After all he is about to become a Supreme Professional!
You are comparing the job of an FBI agent to that of a Supreme Court justice? Who will have the power to affect the lives of millions of people for better or worse - for a freakin lifetime? Really? You think that red herring is going to fly? |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 15, 2018 23:11:19 GMT -5
What's a "Supreme Professional"? Is that like a breakfast sandwich served to white collar workers?  |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 16, 2018 8:48:38 GMT -5
What's a "Supreme Professional"? Is that like a breakfast sandwich served to white collar workers? I am hungry, where is this at? Breakfast time! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 13:25:03 GMT -5
There is currently another IG investigation which involves Peter.
I think there are other good reasons for firing him and we will hear about them eventually.
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