The South and Time magazine

[Value Buy]

Not sure if this belongs in politics or in current events, but since Time is discussing the rise of the South, this is as good of place as any.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-time-created-a-special-issue-on-the-american-south/ar-BBL4Yfw?li=BBnb7Kz

An excerpt.
Long after slavery’s end, even as it became clear that the national shame of racial injustice was hardly unique to the region, the study of the ever-shifting Mind of the South has turned into an obsession–and a profession–for some. TIME devoted two prior issues to it, one in 1964, as the Civil Rights Act became law, and another in 1976 as Jimmy Carter hurtled toward the White House, the first President elected from the Deep South since the Civil War. But the debate over the New South has always been something of a straw man. As the historian Jack Temple Kirby explained in his book Media-Made Dixie (and as just about any Southerner knows from experience), the region is more layered, more diverse in culture and thought, than the stereotypes and much of the literature would have it.

[Value Buy]

As the South rises in stature, is it at the expense (monetarily and politically) of the industralized Midwest?
Or the money center Northeast?
Or possibly the far to the west coast of California?

[happyhoix]

I live in the South, and I can attest that it's more layered and culturally diverse than outsiders realize.

Especially if you've only experienced Southern Culture through the Beverly Hillbillies.

[Value Buy]

Jul 31, 2018 8:12:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I live in the South, and I can attest that it's more layered and culturally diverse than outsiders realize.

Especially if you've only experienced Southern Culture through the Beverly Hillbillies.

Or, To have read or watched "To kill a Mockingbird".

[Value Buy]

Jul 31, 2018 8:13:57 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I live in the northeast.  I am glad to know I am in the money center!  LOL!

Is it a stretch to consider NYC in the Northeast?
In the Midwest, NYC is the money center of the Northeast.

[Gardening Grandma]

Jul 31, 2018 8:10:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

As the South rises in stature, is it at the expense (monetarily and politically) of the industralized Midwest?
Or the money center Northeast?
Or possibly the far to the west coast of California?

Calif has the 5th largest economy in the world.  The South would have a long way to go to be competitive with Cali.

I’ve lived kn the South. Most of my extended family lives in the South.  It’s still the Bible Belt. Most of my extended family are steeped in religion and superstition.  And they are trump cultists.
The cemetery where my mother, grandparents and great grandparents are buried still places Confederate flags on the headstones of Confed veterans.

I could never live there for a myriad of reasons.

[giramomma]

 I'd argue your questions isn't aren't about location but somewhat about the  rural/urban divide.

I mean, of course you are going to find diversity in more urban areas..no matter where you live. You aren't going to find diversity in rural areas, no matter where you live.

I don't get the point of this post.

Are you saying that all of the south is rising up, to Milwaukee? Well, that's not a good comparison. Milwaukee's been in the shitter for decades, because of the loss of manufacturing.

Mississippi is the poorest state, and just about as southern as you can get.. Are you saying that we expect Jackson Mississippi to overcome Chicago or The twin cities, as a place of importance? Do we ever legitimately see Mississippi being a powerhouse state? Probably not in my lifetime.

Now, if you argue Atlanta...being a powerhouse..I can see. Or the reserach triangle in NC. (But, NC is still ranked as one of the 10 poorest states..)

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jul 31, 2018 8:12:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I live in the South, and I can attest that it's more layered and culturally diverse than outsiders realize.

[/p]

[/quote]


Isn't this likely true of just about anywhere in the world?

[kadee79]

Jul 31, 2018 9:02:11 GMT -5 giramomma said:

 I'd argue your questions isn't aren't about location but somewhat about the  rural/urban divide.

I mean, of course you are going to find diversity in more urban areas..no matter where you live. You aren't going to find diversity in rural areas, no matter where you live.

This is a wrong assumption!  There are many layers/diversity in rural areas, especially in the south.  I have neighbors that are Hispanic as well as black & white.  There are others in rural areas that are of other nationalities in this area.
I haven't lived in the north (central Ill.) for over 30 yrs., but back then is was really, really strange to find any other than whites in rural areas.  In my area there was only one older black couple and no one in the area other than me & some other kids had anything to do with them.
I've lived down here 33 yrs....yes, there are many layers.  I'm also considered to be in the "Bible Belt"...and if you don't go to church, you are thought less of than those that do.  We don't attend church.
I'm also in the "gnat belt"...a strip about 50 mi. wide that runs NE from the SW and when you drive past & think we are waving at you...we aren't we are swatting gnats out of our faces. 

[busymom]

I think all states have layers.  Around here, if you live closer to the "big city", with a few regional exceptions, you're more likely to vote Democratic.  But, if you go out into the "sticks", right now you'll find a lot of Republicans.  I don't believe the stereotype that everyone down South is a redneck, sitting on a square bale of hay, strumming on their guitar or banjo.  

[happyhoix]

Jul 31, 2018 9:10:48 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Jul 31, 2018 8:12:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I live in the South, and I can attest that it's more layered and culturally diverse than outsiders realize.

[/p]

[/quote]


Isn't this likely true of just about anywhere in the world?[/quote][/p]

When I travel outside the South, I sometimes get foolish questions - does everyone wear shoes, for instance. One guy was shocked when he visited our site from our NYC site and discovered both rock and roll and NPR on our radio stations. He told me he could never live down here because he's Jewish - I told him the small city where I work not only has a synagogue, it has a mosque, which also seemed to shock him. we seem to be stuck in the Dukes of Hazard mode. Maybe that happens to people from other regions, I don't know.

As someone mentioned, it's more of a rural/urban thing. Urban southern areas are often interchangeable with other urban areas, but the South especially seems to be stereotyped as Goobers and illiterate women in daisy dukes. 

 

[Tiny]

Jul 31, 2018 8:10:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

As the South rises in stature, is it at the expense (monetarily and politically) of the industralized Midwest?
Or the money center Northeast?
Or possibly the far to the west coast of California?

Well, Texas and Florida are in the top 5 biggest economies by State (2017) - but I suspect those two have been in the Top 5 for many years.         Georgia and North Carolina are bringing up the rear of the Top 10.

I think the next one down the list is Virginia (and it's below Michigan....)

I think it's gonna be a while longer before the Southern States surpass the economies of the Northern states.

[Tiny]

Jul 31, 2018 8:25:24 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jul 31, 2018 8:18:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Is it a stretch to consider NYC in the Northeast?
In the Midwest, NYC is the money center of the Northeast.

I was just riffing on you man.....  Your thread is pointing out that the south is often viewed simplistically and homogenized, but it is so easy to do that to any region.  The northeast is fah moah than NYC.... 

Yeah, but even the President has pointed out that Chicago is a war zone where innocent bystanders are being slaughtered on a daily basis by random gunfire.    (I do wonder why Trump shut up about Chicago... maybe Madigan had a word or two with Trump's handlers.   I'm pretty sure Trump isn't really running the show.)

Rural and Urban areas (and their inhabitants are both stereotyped).

    

[kadee79]

Aahhh, but Ga. should move up soon...maybe sooner than many think.  Atlanta is changing the landscape in that area up there as well as younger generations....since both UG & GSU are in the northern regions along with many other 'continuing education' opportunities.

We are also getting some new industries & businesses in the southern regions....low taxes & low wages are drawing them in down here.  Major deterrent is transportation & it's costs. 

[Value Buy]

Jul 31, 2018 11:45:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jul 31, 2018 8:10:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

As the South rises in stature, is it at the expense (monetarily and politically) of the industralized Midwest?
Or the money center Northeast?
Or possibly the far to the west coast of California?

Well, Texas and Florida are in the top 5 biggest economies by State (2017) - but I suspect those two have been in the Top 5 for many years.         Georgia and North Carolina are bringing up the rear of the Top 10.

I think the next one down the list is Virginia (and it's below Michigan....)

I think it's gonna be a while longer before the Southern States surpass the economies of the Northern states.

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

[Value Buy]

Jul 31, 2018 12:25:27 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Aahhh, but Ga. should move up soon...maybe sooner than many think.  Atlanta is changing the landscape in that area up there as well as younger generations....since both UG & GSU are in the northern regions along with many other 'continuing education' opportunities.

We are also getting some new industries & businesses in the southern regions....low taxes & low wages are drawing them in down here.  Major deterrent is transportation & it's costs. 

Last few times I drove through Atlanta, I was amazed about the number of building cranes. Construction is huge. Macon looks like it is expanding too.

[Gardening Grandma]

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 11:45:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Well, Texas and Florida are in the top 5 biggest economies by State (2017) - but I suspect those two have been in the Top 5 for many years.         Georgia and North Carolina are bringing up the rear of the Top 10.

I think the next one down the list is Virginia (and it's below Michigan....)

I think it's gonna be a while longer before the Southern States surpass the economies of the Northern states.

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

With the growing number of  Hispanics in Texas, that state just might turn blue.... Or at least purple...
When I lived in Texas, there were a LOT of north easterners who had moved there.  None of them changed their political views.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 31, 2018 14:53:50 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

With the growing number of  Hispanics in Texas, that state just might turn blue.... Or at least purple...
When I lived in Texas, there were a LOT of north easterners who had moved there.  None of them changed their political views.

As a northeasterner, and a Massachusettsan to boot, and having lived in Tennessee for 25 years, my political views have not changed one bit.

[kadee79]

Jul 31, 2018 14:26:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 12:25:27 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Aahhh, but Ga. should move up soon...maybe sooner than many think.  Atlanta is changing the landscape in that area up there as well as younger generations....since both UG & GSU are in the northern regions along with many other 'continuing education' opportunities.

We are also getting some new industries & businesses in the southern regions....low taxes & low wages are drawing them in down here.  Major deterrent is transportation & it's costs. 

Last few times I drove through Atlanta, I was amazed about the number of building cranes. Construction is huge. Macon looks like it is expanding too.

Yes, Macon is expanding as is even our little town.  We will soon have a DC medical teaching/training facility here as well as some other small industries.

However, after my last visit to my home town...Decatur, Ill...which used to be a hub of industry...Firestone, Caterpillar, Borg Warner, ADM, Staley's Mfg. and a couple more I can't think of now....there are lots of empty spaces there now.  Empty factories, empty shops & even an abundance of empty houses...with prices ranging from about $20,000 up...depending on what you want.  An older (40's era) 2 br, 1 bath can easily be purchased for some where in the 20K range.  Some have garages, some don't...some are attached, some aren't.  They are a small house but many of them also have basements. And a lesson I learned while selling real estate there....NEVER guarantee a basement to be dry.

[mmhmm]

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 11:45:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Well, Texas and Florida are in the top 5 biggest economies by State (2017) - but I suspect those two have been in the Top 5 for many years.         Georgia and North Carolina are bringing up the rear of the Top 10.

I think the next one down the list is Virginia (and it's below Michigan....)

I think it's gonna be a while longer before the Southern States surpass the economies of the Northern states.

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

Our little corner of the south hasn't found that to be true. The influx of new people and new ideas has filtered into the local population over time. Of course, the older folks who are set in their ways aren't changing but the younger people and those still out in the work force are starting to look at things with different eyes. At first, the new-comers were resented and, often, rejected. That doesn't happen anymore. The locals are a lot more amenable to hearing what it's like "ovah theah" these days. 

[Tiny]

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 11:45:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Well, Texas and Florida are in the top 5 biggest economies by State (2017) - but I suspect those two have been in the Top 5 for many years.         Georgia and North Carolina are bringing up the rear of the Top 10.

I think the next one down the list is Virginia (and it's below Michigan....)

I think it's gonna be a while longer before the Southern States surpass the economies of the Northern states.

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

Depends on the age group of the people "flocking" south (or should I say snowbirding?)     It's well documented that older people get more conservative (and sometimes more religious).      

As for economically,  generally doesn't a bigger more productive work force tend to generate more $$ and better economics for individuals and businesses?      Are you suggesting that the red states will fill up with people who will vote Republican but won't be working?  Or who will be laboring for little money while the few incharge get richer?  Cause if the red states become more populous - it's means there are more jobs and better pay - which means people have more $$ and Leisure time and start to think about those less fortunate (who MIGHT be their own family members or nieighbors) and I think THAT is what moves people to become more "liberal" ... they have the time and money and power to be more concerned about their backyard and their extened family.       

I would think that having a better standard of living is what tends to change people's minds - not necessarily the place they live.  

[Tiny]

Meant to add, that while I don't travel much - the one thing that struck me as out of the ordinary when traveling to or thru southern states was the "religiousness" that's more obvious than it is where I live.    I'm surrounded by people who are religious - there's just not as much 'religious' stuff/wording/jewelry/images/TV/Radio etc   everywhere.    Maybe I'm just so use to the religious stuff where I live I don't see it anymore?  Not sure.    The only other out of the ordinary thing was that I must sound funny when I talk.     

[Tiny]

Oh yeah, I would highly recommend that the up and coming Southern Big Cities - work on some sort of viable "public transportation" system for their city.    

[NastyWoman]

Jul 31, 2018 15:33:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

Depends on the age group of the people "flocking" south (or should I say snowbirding?)     It's well documented that older people get more conservative (and sometimes more religious).       ...

WOOHOO!!! Finally someone who recognizes me as the conservative I am

[Gardening Grandma]

Jul 31, 2018 15:52:35 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jul 31, 2018 15:33:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Depends on the age group of the people "flocking" south (or should I say snowbirding?)     It's well documented that older people get more conservative (and sometimes more religious).       ...

WOOHOO!!! Finally someone who recognizes me as the conservative I am

 Oh yeah!  I've become SO conservative as I've gotten older...

[Value Buy]

Jul 31, 2018 14:53:50 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

With the growing number of  Hispanics in Texas, that state just might turn blue.... Or at least purple...
When I lived in Texas, there were a LOT of north easterners who had moved there.  None of them changed their political views.

And how many of them are illegal Mexicans?
As far as north easterners, they may talk a good game but when they get in the voting booth, they vote Republican. They moved there for the tax structure, not the give away benefits.

[swasat]

Jul 31, 2018 16:14:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:53:50 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

With the growing number of  Hispanics in Texas, that state just might turn blue.... Or at least purple...
When I lived in Texas, there were a LOT of north easterners who had moved there.  None of them changed their political views.

And how many of them are illegal Mexicans?
As far as north easterners, they may talk a good game but when they get in the voting booth, they vote Republican. They moved there for the tax structure, not the give away benefits.

LOL!! Like you would know what they are voting 


I am a hard core Illinois girl who spent her entire life till 2017 in various parts North and Midwest USA. And now I live in the heart of Tennessee. Like anything or anyone can pry my political beliefs out of me 

[Gardening Grandma]

Jul 31, 2018 16:14:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:53:50 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

With the growing number of  Hispanics in Texas, that state just might turn blue.... Or at least purple...
When I lived in Texas, there were a LOT of north easterners who had moved there.  None of them changed their political views.

And how many of them are illegal Mexicans?
As far as north easterners, they may talk a good game but when they get in the voting booth, they vote Republican. They moved there for the tax structure, not the give away benefits.

Stereotyping much?  (That says a LOT about YOU)

And you know how people vote behind the curtain?  

[Tennesseer]

Jul 31, 2018 15:25:06 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 31, 2018 14:24:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I agree about economically, but what about politically? Georgia, Florida,Texas and the other southern states might soon negate New Jersey, New York, and California, in national elections as more people flock to the southern states. Just depends how many democrats migrate there as to whether it can become a huge voting block. Funny thing about people moving south. Their political thinking seems to change after the move.

Our little corner of the south hasn't found that to be true. The influx of new people and new ideas has filtered into the local population over time. Of course, the older folks who are set in their ways aren't changing but the younger people and those still out in the work force are starting to look at things with different eyes. At first, the new-comers were resented and, often, rejected. That doesn't happen anymore. The locals are a lot more amenable to hearing what it's like "ovah theah" these days. 

An interesting change is metro Nashville, TN./Davidson County It used to be a republican county but is now one of the three counties in that state which go democrat during elections, local, state, and federal. The change is possibly due to the music industry and all the young people moving there as singers, song writers, and other areas associate with music.

[swasat]

Jul 31, 2018 16:21:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 31, 2018 15:25:06 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Our little corner of the south hasn't found that to be true. The influx of new people and new ideas has filtered into the local population over time. Of course, the older folks who are set in their ways aren't changing but the younger people and those still out in the work force are starting to look at things with different eyes. At first, the new-comers were resented and, often, rejected. That doesn't happen anymore. The locals are a lot more amenable to hearing what it's like "ovah theah" these days. 

An interesting change is metro Nashville, TN./Davidson County It used to be a republican county but is now one of the three counties in that state which go democrat during elections, local, state, and federal. The change is possibly due to the music industry and all the young people moving there as singers, song writers, and other areas associate with music.

And the technology & software folks, the doctors, the healthcare professionals, the academics, the start up folks. Its a BOOMING economy here Tennesseer , with lots of mega corp offices,universities and a lot of hospitals and healthcare. The whole of Davidson county and the uber rich neighboring Williamson county voted Democrat in the last election. It was a deep blue metro area.

And just so OP knows this also the Church belt   Where people voted Democrat.