Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Feb 9, 2018 10:08:48 GMT -5
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 9, 2018 10:21:22 GMT -5
I have to agree with Paul. Why does the deficit no longer matter when the GOP is in power? It was HUGE when the Democratic Party held control.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 9, 2018 10:24:15 GMT -5
Before the election, I got a huge lecture about how out of control the debt is. I am interested to see what his take is now. He has toed the party line on every other issue, so I am interested to see his logic on why the debt no longer matters.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 9, 2018 10:47:26 GMT -5
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 9, 2018 10:55:16 GMT -5
Before the election, I got a huge lecture about how out of control the debt is. I am interested to see what his take is now. He has toed the party line on every other issue, so I am interested to see his logic on why the debt no longer matters. who is "he"?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 9, 2018 10:59:20 GMT -5
Of course it is "slightly" hypocritical of Rand Paul to protest the deficit after he just voted for that wonderful, give away, of a tax package which will increase the deficit by trillions.
Me thinks this is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too - and feeling all principled while at it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2018 11:54:29 GMT -5
that is called COMPROMISE. it is what makes for GOOD GOVERNING. the alternative is "one party gets whatever it wants over the objections of the other". this means MASSIVE SOCIAL SPENDING under Democrats, of course. but apparently he can't make that logical leap.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 9, 2018 12:43:03 GMT -5
It is hypocritical of the GOP to sign off on this massive spending increase after the budget fights of the Obama era. It’s hypocritical of the democrats to suddenly be worried about the debt under a republican congress after the debt explosion under Obama.
I think both parties are lazy and just throwing money at each other to cover for the fact that they can’t actually govern responsibly and reach a deal to keep the government operational.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 12:46:05 GMT -5
It's okay, they will cut granny's Medicaid/Medicare and food stamps to pay for it. /sarcasm
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2018 13:00:10 GMT -5
It is hypocritical of the GOP to sign off on this massive spending increase after the budget fights of the Obama era. It’s hypocritical of the democrats to suddenly be worried about the debt under a republican congress after the debt explosion under Obama. I think both parties are lazy and just throwing money at each other to cover for the fact that they can’t actually govern responsibly and reach a deal to keep the government operational. is that what they are doing? or are they calling out Republicans? there is a difference. IE: if i know you are against animal abuse, and i am NOT, is it wrong for me to point out when you hit your dog?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 9, 2018 13:03:59 GMT -5
It's okay, they will cut granny's Medicaid/Medicare and food stamps to pay for it. /sarcasm I think this was their intent. I don't know what happened.
I think this was irresponsible of both the Democrats and the Republicans. The tax cut never would have gone through if this budget had been presented at the same time.
How the hell they can cut tax revenues and increase expenditures to this extent is beyond me.
And the Dreamers really need a solution. This budget had nothing to do with them, no one even gave them a second thought other than Nancy Pelosi, so lets reject Trump's BS.
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engineerdoe
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Post by engineerdoe on Feb 9, 2018 13:18:33 GMT -5
People always talk about the tax and spend Democrats but forget all about the borrow and spend Republicans. Both sides have flaws which is why I prefer a mismatch in power of executive and legislative branches. I would like to see what "waste" the Democrats held out for to pass this budget.
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engineerdoe
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Post by engineerdoe on Feb 9, 2018 13:24:46 GMT -5
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 9, 2018 13:50:07 GMT -5
It's a super obvious statement to make...so kinda seems like grandstanding to me.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 9, 2018 14:57:05 GMT -5
Of course it is "slightly" hypocritical of Rand Paul to protest the deficit after he just voted for that wonderful, give away, of a tax package which will increase the deficit by trillions. Me thinks this is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too - and feeling all principled while at it. u make a good case...seems he's a bit hypocritical but I did listen to a lot of his harangue...CNN broadcast a lot of it...and if u over look the possible hypocriticle parts of himself doings...what he said I found no fault with. That in our history, only four times was our budget passed correctly with all facets being done correctly... When u think of the size of a budget that is in the trillions...the impossibility of checking out every expenditures for waste and necessity...how a hundred thousand here, a million here, $50 thousand there...$10 thousand over there...and all those added up...to quite a large amount of waste of our financials...and these wastes are pork barrel items that are there because I will give u yours if you give me mine...so who is to say no... Possible , and it will never happen, a line veto would help, but who would do that? I don't see our Donald, for example, taking the time or being fair with such a tool...the waste in the government is billions and billions...Over the years..try trillions possible..We could have a wall both in Mexico AND Canada and still have $ left over...waste of canceled projects in the military amount to billions...The particle collider [ particle Physics..biggest in Switzerland now] in Texas was one of the few that was canceled before it ran into billions...same with our answer to the Concorde Jet...but to many of these projects are never canceled...afraid some Senator or Congressman districts or States lose jobs..
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Feb 9, 2018 18:36:59 GMT -5
politicians are hypocrites.....shocking
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 9, 2018 18:57:18 GMT -5
Of course it is "slightly" hypocritical of Rand Paul to protest the deficit after he just voted for that wonderful, give away, of a tax package which will increase the deficit by trillions. Me thinks this is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too - and feeling all principled while at it. u make a good case...seems he's a bit hypocritical but I did listen to a lot of his harangue...CNN broadcast a lot of it...and if u over look the possible hypocriticle parts of himself doings...what he said I found no fault with. That in our history, only four times was our budget passed correctly with all facets being done correctly... No he doesn't get a pass from me. All that was needed here is elementary school level math and I expect senators to at least have that level of knowledge.
You know along the lines of: here are 10 apples, now I give away 5. I promised mom 12 apples to bake a pie. How many do I have left? What do you mean I am short, that's not fair, we can't do that! Should the solution be "Let's go steal farmer John's apples" or would a better solution be "let's get those apples we couldn't afford to give away in the first place back and then see what else we need to do to make this work"
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 9, 2018 19:11:18 GMT -5
u make a good case...seems he's a bit hypocritical but I did listen to a lot of his harangue...CNN broadcast a lot of it...and if u over look the possible hypocriticle parts of himself doings...what he said I found no fault with. That in our history, only four times was our budget passed correctly with all facets being done correctly... No he doesn't get a pass from me. All that was needed here is elementary school level math and I expect senators to at least have that level of knowledge.
You know along the lines of: here are 10 apples, now I give away 5. I promised mom 12 apples to bake a pie. How many do I have left? What do you mean I am short, that's not fair, we can't do that! Should the solution be "Let's go steal farmer John's apples" or would a better solution be "let's get those apples we couldn't afford to give away in the first place back and then see what else we need to do to make this work"
Nasty whether u give him a pass or not is your business not mine...I am not that set in my ways that I hold grudges....well with the Donald that might be a bit of a untruth...we are dealing with politicians who we as those who vote yea or nay hold their future in our hands...so they do play the political game..tell us what we want to hear...vote in ways that will help them politically...meaning keeping them in office. I understand...yet Paul said things I had not heard before from a member of the GOP against them as well as Dems...both parties deserved it...and he will suffer for it in his party...possible seriously..possible fatally....That to me was a brave thing to do... His talk was above and beyond..I have seen above and beyond...I respect that...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 9, 2018 19:17:45 GMT -5
No he doesn't get a pass from me. All that was needed here is elementary school level math and I expect senators to at least have that level of knowledge.
You know along the lines of: here are 10 apples, now I give away 5. I promised mom 12 apples to bake a pie. How many do I have left? What do you mean I am short, that's not fair, we can't do that! Should the solution be "Let's go steal farmer John's apples" or would a better solution be "let's get those apples we couldn't afford to give away in the first place back and then see what else we need to do to make this work"
Nasty whether u give him a pass or not is your business not mine...I am not that set in my ways that I hold grudges....well with the Donald that might be a bit of a untruth...we are dealing with politicians who we as those who vote yea or nay hold their future in our hands...so they do play the political game..tell us what we want to hear...vote in ways that will help them politically...meaning keeping them in office. I understand...yet Paul said things I had not heard before from a member of the GOP against them as well as Dems...both parties deserved it...and he will suffer for it in his party...possible seriously..possible fatally....That to me was a brave thing to do... His talk was above and beyond..I have seen above and beyond...I respect that... Since talk is all it is, his speech is worth absolutely nothing. Sorry but I believe that actions speak louder than words and that does not just include your actions of the last 5 minutes that you use to score points, but also the actions that brought you to this point in the first place.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 9, 2018 19:38:12 GMT -5
Nasty whether u give him a pass or not is your business not mine...I am not that set in my ways that I hold grudges....well with the Donald that might be a bit of a untruth...we are dealing with politicians who we as those who vote yea or nay hold their future in our hands...so they do play the political game..tell us what we want to hear...vote in ways that will help them politically...meaning keeping them in office. I understand...yet Paul said things I had not heard before from a member of the GOP against them as well as Dems...both parties deserved it...and he will suffer for it in his party...possible seriously..possible fatally....That to me was a brave thing to do... His talk was above and beyond..I have seen above and beyond...I respect that... Since talk is all it is, his speech is worth absolutely nothing. Sorry but I believe that actions speak louder than words and that does not just include your actions of the last 5 minutes that you use to score points, but also the actions that brought you to this point in the first place. Not going to go back and forth with u here...you do what u want, believe how u want...said that already I believe..... From my life experience, especially when younger when had young lives entrusted to me..not always happy ending..am able to be less up tight and forgiving of possible faults ...much less a hard ass...those days long gone..definitely the stick up my butt is long gone... I heard those words of Paul and listened with a open mind...was not listening or saying under my breath.."what about your past votes and decisions you Republican son of......" ..just his words..our problems in the country and why he would not vote as his party wanted him to do...for me...good words...to bad others wouldn't join him. These problems as a country, the financials are not going to affect me...am a senior, senior...financially ok...no debts...my kids will probably be ok....grand kids and their kids and so many of those generations...not going to be a good thing...and Paul spoke on that...so why criticize is my feeling...but makes u feel better...so be it, go for it.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 9, 2018 20:32:53 GMT -5
dezii I don't like arguing with you at all but we have to respectfully agree to disagree here. I understand that people change their mind over time and I believe that that can be good. However, it is one thing to give someone a pass on something he did or said 10 years or (what the heck) even just a year ago. But this tax law vote is from December 20th, just 1.5 months ago. At that time it was abundantly clear that the chance of having a balanced budget (even without the lower revenue) was about as good as a snowball's chance in hell. Yet he voted for that tax law amendment. Actions have consequences and you don't get to ignore them when it is politically expedient for you, nor do you get to bemoan the facts resulting from your own actions just a few weeks later because, once again, it is politically expedient for you. By the way you are not the only older person on this forum even though you do have some years on me but I have been eligible for Medicare for a while now Like you I won't be all that much affected by what is happening now. Unlike you chances are that neither will my children's children, since they are growing up abroad due their parents' choice and made possible due to their dual citizenship. So no dogs in this fight for me personally, yet this upsets me quite a bit.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 9, 2018 20:47:14 GMT -5
dezii I don't like arguing with you at all but we have to respectfully agree to disagree here. I understand that people change their mind over time and I believe that that can be good. However, it is one thing to give someone a pass on something he did or said 10 years or (what the heck) even just a year ago. But this tax law vote is from December 20th, just 1.5 months ago. At that time it was abundantly clear that the chance of having a balanced budget (even without the lower revenue) was about as good as a snowball's chance in hell. Yet he voted for that tax law amendment. Actions have consequences and you don't get to ignore them when it is politically expedient for you, nor do you get to bemoan the facts resulting from your own actions just a few weeks later because, once again, it is politically expedient for you. By the way you are not the only older person on this forum even though you do have some years on me but I have been eligible for Medicare for a while now Like you I won't be all that much affected by what is happening now. Unlike you chances are that neither will my children's children, since they are growing up abroad due their parents' choice and made possible due to their dual citizenship. So no dogs in this fight for me personally, yet this upsets me quite a bit.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 9, 2018 20:56:00 GMT -5
never dezii . There is nothing wrong with disagreements only with disrespect and neither you nor I disrespect each other.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 10, 2018 1:11:54 GMT -5
never dezii . There is nothing wrong with disagreements only with disrespect and neither you nor I disrespect each other.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 10, 2018 1:27:17 GMT -5
Before the election, I got a huge lecture about how out of control the debt is. I am interested to see what his take is now. He has toed the party line on every other issue, so I am interested to see his logic on why the debt no longer matters. who is "he"? Sorry about that. My post was super unclear, but the "he" is just a random conservative friend (Joe Ordinary.) I use him as an indicator into how conservatives think. And I am waiting to hear his thoughts on the new debt.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 10, 2018 8:39:20 GMT -5
It dosn’t matter what their “platform” is, what they say are their priorities when they campaign for our votes. Citizens united needs to go. RN they vote for what the people with control of the Superpac & Special Interest $$ want. To hell with the rest of us.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Feb 10, 2018 8:52:15 GMT -5
I have to agree with Paul. Why does the deficit no longer matter when the GOP is in power? It was HUGE when the Democratic Party held control. Maybe for the same reason that Democrats cared so much about debt when GWB was in office, but didn't care about massive deficits when Obama was in power?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Feb 10, 2018 8:55:30 GMT -5
Helloooooo, conservatives........ Anyone want to weigh in on why this is all fine and dandy? I didn't think so. I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal Democrat. I think this is completely irresponsible. But what do the 1% care? They don't depend on Social Security or Medicare, and they don't care if these programs go down the tubes. Fiscally conservative/socially liberal...So that means you care about deficits when republicans are in power and spend on things like border control and military, but when deficits are created by liberal social welfare programs, its a-okay. That about right?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 10, 2018 9:10:55 GMT -5
Helloooooo, conservatives........ Anyone want to weigh in on why this is all fine and dandy? I didn't think so. I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal Democrat. I think this is completely irresponsible. But what do the 1% care? They don't depend on Social Security or Medicare, and they don't care if these programs go down the tubes. Fiscally conservative/socially liberal...So that means you care about deficits when republicans are in power and spend on things like border control and military, but when deficits are created by liberal social welfare programs, its a-okay. That about right? No, that is not even in the same hemisphere as right, but you know that already. Don't you?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2018 11:44:54 GMT -5
Helloooooo, conservatives........ Anyone want to weigh in on why this is all fine and dandy? I didn't think so. I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal Democrat. I think this is completely irresponsible. But what do the 1% care? They don't depend on Social Security or Medicare, and they don't care if these programs go down the tubes. Fiscally conservative/socially liberal...So that means you care about deficits when republicans are in power and spend on things like border control and military, but when deficits are created by liberal social welfare programs, its a-okay. That about right? no. it means he always cares about deficits, and he also cares about civil liberties, and good governance. from his standpoint, i am betting there is very little about this administration for him to like.
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