thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 7, 2018 18:47:02 GMT -5
Mroped, I have no problem with women in the fire service. I would only go in a fire with them if they are larger and capable of getting me out if need be. Same rule for guys. . Larger than what?
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Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
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Location: NEPA
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Post by Bluerobin on Jan 8, 2018 7:18:11 GMT -5
Thyme, larger sized. 5'2" can go in with someone else. 5'10" and sturdy, I would consider. I am NFL defensive lineman sized.
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Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
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Location: NEPA
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Post by Bluerobin on Jan 8, 2018 11:43:03 GMT -5
Milee, you truly are unaware. We would all die trying to save our partners. I welcome women. I just would not go into a fire with one who was too small to get me out. Same with a guy. Reading comprehension is NOT your strong point. Zib, we usually take out the window, not just open it. So, yes, no problem.
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milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on Jan 8, 2018 12:00:29 GMT -5
I'm glad you could mansplain things to me, Big Guy. I'll try not to worry my pretty little head about things I don't need to trouble myself with, much less bother myself with silly stuff like reading or thinking.
Wastingthyme shouldn't keep reading those silly statistics, I'll stop reading those ridiculous studies about the health risks of being obese and thinking about what might involved in a job and Zib can stop expending brain cells thinking of useless stuff like how firefighters can most easily get into and out of buildings.
Anything else you want to explain to us? Please type slowly and use small words. TYIA.
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midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
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Post by midjd on Jan 8, 2018 12:01:30 GMT -5
I agree with the general view that, before we stringently adhere to testing as a condition of employment, it should be shown that the items tested upon have some relation to the actual job duties. (Pretty sure that's already the legal standard.)
I would think the ability to fit into (and get out of) small spaces would be employed at least as frequently as the ability to drag someone out of a burning building.
I'm 5'2" and my husband is closer to Bluerobin's size, but I'm pretty sure I could drag him to safety if necessary. I also know at least two (male) city firefighters who are no bigger than I am, and there doesn't seem to be any issue with their ability to do their jobs.
My city is lucky to have a reasonably young, fit (and co-ed) firefighting force, but I've seen plenty of volunteer firefighters who look like they'd have trouble walking up a flight of stairs without assistance, let alone helping anyone else.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 8, 2018 12:23:05 GMT -5
A window is only so big as opposed to taking out a whole wall. There’s a reason that we have a code for window size. So that firefighters and their equipment can get through it.
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Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
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Location: NEPA
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Post by Bluerobin on Jan 8, 2018 12:33:36 GMT -5
Milee, statistics just don't tell the story. When you mature or gain some experience, you may realize that.
Mid, one problem is you have to be able to safely take out your partner. Zib, believe me, if I have to get out of a window, I can. Now that I am too old (and broken) to be active, I tend to miss the good old days.
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milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on Jan 8, 2018 12:48:53 GMT -5
I'm 5'2" and my husband is closer to Bluerobin's size, but I'm pretty sure I could drag him to safety if necessary. I also know at least two (male) city firefighters who are no bigger than I am, and there doesn't seem to be any issue with their ability to do their jobs. Agree. One of the sailing teams I sometimes crew with is big, fit guys. Their boat is crazy overpowered and it's not uncommon for it to capsize. We have to pull the boat upright and then get everybody back in the boat, both of which are harder than they sound; some crews need to be rescued and people regularly get injured. Surprisingly, we've found that instead of my small size being an impediment, it's been an advantage for our team. First, when we capsize I (so far, knock on wood) have never fallen off, so we have a huge advantage that I'm still on the high side of the capsized boat. No idea if I'm quicker that the guys or just realize we're going over first, but I manage to scramble up and stay on the high side as we go over. From up there - about 7' - 8' above the water, I can quickly release the lines and start to put leverage on the keel to bring the boat up all while the guys are still swimming back to the boat. Then as the boat comes back up out of the water, I keep scrambling over the high side and end up inside the boat which is now ready to sail. Meantime, the guys tend to fall off again when the boat comes back up. But no worries, I'm inside the boat ready to keep it from sailing away and to help them get back in. Instead of the guys having to reach above their heads to do a pull up and haul themselves - and their water filled heavy gear and boots - out of the water like a pull up, they only have to get close enough so that I can grab them and haul them in. Nobody is 300 pounds, but the 220 pounder expressed some surprise the first time I grabbed the shoulder straps of his life jacket and hauled him in the boat. Hint - it's all about using your legs. Different technique than the guys use, but works for me. So I may be the smallest person out there and often the only woman, but we're often the first team that's able to rescue ourselves after capsize and we're currently winning the series, so it's working just fine. Did the requirements for sailing change? No. But we're starting to realize that the way we evaluated the tasks is not accurate and only looks at one possible way to do things. Instead of having a team of people with only one type of size and skill, we're finding that having a mix of sizes and skills can be more effective since the team has more potential ways to solve issues. We don't all just have a big hammer and look for nails to swing at; we have many tools and skills we bring to bear. I suspect firefighting may have some similarities. Most women will not be able to haul a 300 pounder out of a building, but maybe they'll have ways to avoid having to do that to begin with; women may even have certain advantages because of their small size. But we'll never know as long as we only look at things from the perspective of the men who have only been doing them one way and have no interest in looking at things in any other way.
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tskeeter
Junior Associate
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Post by tskeeter on Jan 8, 2018 13:47:35 GMT -5
tskeeter, Just to see what they were about, I took some of the courses, (by the time they came out, I was grandfathered). Guess what? I learned much more from Joe and Mike. Bluerobin, I didn’t mean to imply that training has no value. It’s just that the more requirements you impose on volunteers, the less willing people are to to commit the time and energy required by volunteer positions. My reference point is our state regulations about training for HOA board members. The annual training requirement is significant enough that it is about equal to the amount of time our board members actually spend managing our HOA. And, I’m expecting the state legislature to continue to impose more requirement, as they have every session since the training requirement was imposed. I forsee the day when being an HOA board member is a part time job, not something many folks will volunteer for. In fact, the state has already set up a process where if an HOA can’t get enough volunteer board members, the state will appoint an attorney to run your HOA. That the HOA members will pay for. And, who can run the HOA as they see fit, not according to the wishes of the homeowners. It almost looks like somebody has a long term plan to chase volunteers out of HOA leadership so the state, through it’s appointed bureaucrats, can take over your neighborhood and start making rules about how you live. (Imagine your state making rules that require you to mow your lawn every week, or require you to do any car maintenance/repair in your garage with the door closed. No washing the car in the driveway, or letting a breeze blow through the garage while you change oil on a 100 degree day. (The car maintenance/repair rule was actually proposed for our HOA by the HOA attorney.)). I know my concerns smacks of wacky conspiracy theory. But, when one person (a state appointed HOA manager) can make the rules that others must live by, it’s hard to predict just what they might think is appropriate. For a highly paid attorney, who does none of their own auto maintenance or repair, the car repair rule isn’t a big imposition on folks. For our many neighbors who are collector car owners and restorers, such a rule would have required them to install A/C in their garage so they could use their property as they see fit during our hot summer and fall months and plumb in floor drains and install waterproof walls and ceilings in their garage so they can wash their car at home.
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Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
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Location: NEPA
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Post by Bluerobin on Jan 9, 2018 16:22:41 GMT -5
tskeeter, I agree. However I learned more from my mentors than I did in fire school.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 9, 2018 17:32:16 GMT -5
That I believe, I learned everything I needed to teach from my mentor teacher, not my education classes.
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Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 9, 2018 18:16:58 GMT -5
We just canned 5 cadets. Rumor mills it's for repeated sexual harassment towards the female cadets in their class. And they were counseled about it. So it's not just volunteers. These were paid kids, straight out of high school.
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