parenting question

[swamp]

DS has a friend who was just hospitalized for suicidal/homicidal threats. 

How do you talk to him about it?

The kids are 11. 

[chapeau]

That’s a tough one.
I think whatever you do say you need to start with some variation of “you know you can always talk to me about anything. I might not always want to hear it, but I will always listen with an open mind” or something like that.
Because hospitalization for something like that looks like punishment to a lot of kids, not treatment that the kid apparently desperately needs.
That’s probably the important part, to emphasize that this is treatment for an illness, just like (illnesses needing hospitalization that other people he knows have had). But this one is going to take more time and patience than a broken arm.
Are your son and this kid close? Because if they are, son is probably aware that there is something wrong, he just might not know how to articulate what that is.

[thyme4change]

Illness is an illness, but modern medicine hasn't really cracked the code on these types of illnesses.

Good luck, this will be a tough one.

[Shooby]

That is very difficult.  And, younger and younger ages.  

[whoisjohngalt]

I would start by asking him his thoughts and go from there.

[azucena]

I've been dealing with severe depression and anxiety for about two weeks (medication and therapy are working but man was it scary for several days). DD9 could clearly see something was wrong. Now that I'm recovering we talked and I explained it as my brain not being able to process my feelings correctly, sort of like they were broken and needed medicine to heal. I acknowledged that it was scary for her to see but that I was asking for help from daddy, doctors, and my therapist for counseling to talk about my feelings. I told her to ask me any questions she thinks of and will check in with her in a couple days. We talked about how sometimes our brain and feelings get mixed up with chemicals and hormones causing trouble. For me it was a combination of a uti I didn't even know I had, bronchitis, and going off birth control a month ago after DH'S vasectomy. I spiraled so fast it was crazy. I can't imagine dealing with it as a young teen. I haven't been suicidal but it has been bad enough that I think I get why people are and I don't ever want to feel that way again. My psychiatrist ran 9 pages of bloodwork last week, so many vials I couldn't look, hormones, vitamins, and I don't even know what else. She also took a DNA test to try to tailor my medication but so far the prestiq she chose is working well. I'm also back on the birth control - never occurred to me that going off would cause a problem but it should have because weaning each daughter made me spiral so there's definitely a hormonal component.

Anyway sorry to derail the thread and will be praying for help for the child.

[alabamagal]

Dec 27, 2017 12:01:29 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I'd ask him what he thinks, what he noticed, and what questions he has.

The mother of one of the Columbine shooters wrote an excellent book that includes a lot about adolescent depression. It looks quite different than adult depression so maybe learning those signs and discussing them with your son would  help.

Having been through teenage years 3 times, asking them what they think is always a good way to get a conversation started.

[swamp]

We talked. He's clueless lol. I was all worked up for nothing.

He said the friend would tell DS to shut up at lunch. DS would just talk to someone else.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

When one of DD’d acquaintances hung herself when DD was 13 & the girl was 11, DD asked to go to the funeral. We did, and we stayed in the back. We talked about how there were ways to get help and that we would want her to tell us she was struggling if she had sucidal ideation.

[Deleted]

It’s hard. Because you want your kid to potentially be the friend who lets another kid know they have alternatives, but I can actually tell if one of son’s two friends with depression have an acute period because he is just sooooo sensitive it impacts his mood. Son has a therapist he sees periodically and I encourage him to schedule an appointment if a friend is struggling, proactively. But he’s 19....

[Shooby]

Dec 27, 2017 17:57:02 GMT -5 swamp said:

We talked. He's clueless lol. I was all worked up for nothing.

He said the friend would tell DS to shut up at lunch. DS would just talk to someone else.

I think kids that age just simply accept what is.  Like, oh such and such happened, and they are simply like "oh" and they may not ponder it any more deeply than that.  

  However, what is the best approach when this happens in a neighborhood community or school?  When my son was 14, he was on the football team and a group of them started experimenting with drugs.  The son of a very prominent attorney shot himself point blank while his mom was downstairs doing laundry.  That was absolutely shocking because he was a GOOD kid.  And, what hurt the most was that some people really choose to focus on the way he died rather than how he lived.  The School simply pretended that he didnt' exist.  There was no school service, no acknowledgement from the coach at the football banquet, etc.  I personally was very disturbed by that.  His life mattered.  He was a young kid who made a tragic mistake.  However, the school was worried about copycats, etc.  And, on some level, I do understand that.  But, i am bothered that if he had died of cancer or an accident, that his life would have been commemorated and acknowledged, not just hidden because it was too uncomfortable.

[Deleted]

Suicidal/homicidal is a little different...

[Tennesseer]

Dec 27, 2017 18:20:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 27, 2017 17:57:02 GMT -5 swamp said:

We talked. He's clueless lol. I was all worked up for nothing.

He said the friend would tell DS to shut up at lunch. DS would just talk to someone else.

I think kids that age just simply accept what is.  Like, oh such and such happened, and they are simply like "oh" and they may not ponder it any more deeply than that.  

  However, what is the best approach when this happens in a neighborhood community or school?  When my son was 14, he was on the football team and a group of them started experimenting with drugs.  The son of a very prominent attorney shot himself point blank while his mom was downstairs doing laundry.  That was absolutely shocking because he was a GOOD kid.  And, what hurt the most was that some people really choose to focus on the way he died rather than how he lived.  The School simply pretended that he didnt' exist.  There was no school service, no acknowledgement from the coach at the football banquet, etc.  I personally was very disturbed by that.  His life mattered.  He was a young kid who made a tragic mistake.  However, the school was worried about copycats, etc.  And, on some level, I do understand that.  But, i am bothered that if he had died of cancer or an accident, that his life would have been commemorated and acknowledged, not just hidden because it was too uncomfortable.

Good death (fought the good fight) versus a societal taboo.

[kittensaver]

I agree with what others have written here. I would start by asking him what he knows about the situation, and if he has any questions. Giving him the chance to be in an open-ended conversation with you will encourage him to speak his mind without fear of being judged. It will also let him know you are there for him, even if he doesn't want to talk/express himself at that moment.

If he *does* open up, you can help him to break the taboo/silence around self-harm, and encourage him to find healthy ways to express himself - and healthy ways of talking to his friends about serious things like how and where to go to get help if you are feeling down or suicidal.

Good luck - as you well know it is a tough conversation, but worth a lot to have it.

[TheHaitian]

11.... that is scary young! I feel for those parents

[Deleted]

A friend of my son's did this when he was about the same age . . . maybe 12.  I was also the child's teacher, and we visited him in the hospital.  We took him one of my daughter's Care Bears to make him laugh.  I still remember seeing him holding it, just like a much younger child, as we left.

The really hard part as a parent comes after.   There's the potential that it will happen again, and that your son could get caught up in it.  My then-husband said the friend was allowed to visit our home and stay with us as much as he (or my son) wanted, but our son could not go to his house to hang out, etc.  I didn't like it, but I didn't fight it.  The idea was that our house we had more control over what they did.  

The friend grew up.  We were Facebook "friends."  He was about 30 when he finally succeeded.  He jumped off an overpass, leaving a wife and one small child.  The demons were still there twenty years later.

It was one of the saddest funerals that I have been to.  It wasn't the age of the friend.  I have known much younger people who died.  It was watching a group of thirty-year-olds doing a eulogy and serving as pall bearers.  They were much too young for that.

This may get harder when it sinks in with your son.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2017 18:20:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 27, 2017 17:57:02 GMT -5 swamp said:

We talked. He's clueless lol. I was all worked up for nothing.

He said the friend would tell DS to shut up at lunch. DS would just talk to someone else.

I think kids that age just simply accept what is.  Like, oh such and such happened, and they are simply like "oh" and they may not ponder it any more deeply than that.  

  However, what is the best approach when this happens in a neighborhood community or school?  When my son was 14, he was on the football team and a group of them started experimenting with drugs.  The son of a very prominent attorney shot himself point blank while his mom was downstairs doing laundry.  That was absolutely shocking because he was a GOOD kid.  And, what hurt the most was that some people really choose to focus on the way he died rather than how he lived.  The School simply pretended that he didn't exist.  There was no school service, no acknowledgement from the coach at the football banquet, etc.  I personally was very disturbed by that.  His life mattered.  He was a young kid who made a tragic mistake.  However, the school was worried about copycats, etc.  And, on some level, I do understand that.  But, i am bothered that if he had died of cancer or an accident, that his life would have been commemorated and acknowledged, not just hidden because it was too uncomfortable.

No, you don't really understand.  They can't afford to glorify suicide.  Instant fame is very appealing to adolescents.  If some of them can get the attention from everyone that they can't get any other way . . .  Well, it's not something you want to happen.

There is a world of different between acknowledging someone who dies through no action of his own, and a suicide.  They are both tragedies in their own way, but those ways are very different.  No one's going to copycat cancer or a fatal automobile accident.

It isn't up to the school to commemorate him.  His family should handle that.  That said, the small private school where I taught also had an eighth grader commit suicide.  They closed school so that everyone could go to her funeral.  That's the sort of "commemoration" that is appropriate.  The football coach singing his praises at the football banquet really isn't.  I guess he could have given a life lesson on what a waste that all that potential was thrown away, but I don't think the parents would really have appreciated that much.

[Shooby]

Dec 27, 2017 20:38:00 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Dec 27, 2017 18:20:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I think kids that age just simply accept what is.  Like, oh such and such happened, and they are simply like "oh" and they may not ponder it any more deeply than that.  

  However, what is the best approach when this happens in a neighborhood community or school?  When my son was 14, he was on the football team and a group of them started experimenting with drugs.  The son of a very prominent attorney shot himself point blank while his mom was downstairs doing laundry.  That was absolutely shocking because he was a GOOD kid.  And, what hurt the most was that some people really choose to focus on the way he died rather than how he lived.  The School simply pretended that he didn't exist.  There was no school service, no acknowledgement from the coach at the football banquet, etc.  I personally was very disturbed by that.  His life mattered.  He was a young kid who made a tragic mistake.  However, the school was worried about copycats, etc.  And, on some level, I do understand that.  But, i am bothered that if he had died of cancer or an accident, that his life would have been commemorated and acknowledged, not just hidden because it was too uncomfortable.

No, you don't really understand.  They can't afford to glorify suicide.  Instant fame is very appealing to adolescents.  If some of them can get the attention from everyone that they can't get any other way . . .  Well, it's not something you want to happen.

There is a world of different between acknowledging someone who dies through no action of his own, and a suicide.  They are both tragedies in their own way, but those ways are very different.  No one's going to copycat cancer or a fatal automobile accident.

It isn't up to the school to commemorate him.  His family should handle that.  That said, the small private school where I taught also had an eighth grader commit suicide.  They closed school so that everyone could go to her funeral.  That's the sort of "commemoration" that is appropriate.  The football coach singing his praises at the football banquet really isn't.  I guess he could have given a life lesson on what a waste that all that potential was thrown away, but I don't think the parents would really have appreciated that much.

I am trying to give heartfelt opinions, so i really don't need your snark. Wow.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2017 21:05:25 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 27, 2017 20:38:00 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

No, you don't really understand.  They can't afford to glorify suicide.  Instant fame is very appealing to adolescents.  If some of them can get the attention from everyone that they can't get any other way . . .  Well, it's not something you want to happen.

There is a world of different between acknowledging someone who dies through no action of his own, and a suicide.  They are both tragedies in their own way, but those ways are very different.  No one's going to copycat cancer or a fatal automobile accident.

It isn't up to the school to commemorate him.  His family should handle that.  That said, the small private school where I taught also had an eighth grader commit suicide.  They closed school so that everyone could go to her funeral.  That's the sort of "commemoration" that is appropriate.  The football coach singing his praises at the football banquet really isn't.  I guess he could have given a life lesson on what a waste that all that potential was thrown away, but I don't think the parents would really have appreciated that much.

I am trying to give heartfelt opinions, so i really don't need your snark. Wow.

You evidently don't know what snark is either.  That explains a lot.  . (Ok, that last comment WAS snarky.  I'll admit it.  But not the post.)

I was trying to give my heartfelt opinion as well.

[MJ2.0]

Dec 27, 2017 23:33:28 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Dec 27, 2017 21:05:25 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I am trying to give heartfelt opinions, so i really don't need your snark. Wow.

You evidently don't know what snark is either.  That explains a lot.  . (Ok, that last comment WAS snarky.  I'll admit it.  But not the post.)

I was trying to give my heartfelt opinion as well.

Yeah I didn't read any snark in SS's response....

[raeoflyte]

As a teen I think the school needs to address it on some level.  Not glorify it, but take the opportunity to talk about how you don't ever really know what is going on in someone else's life.  Reasons to choose compassion, and highlight what help is available for kids who are struggling.  The family is already reeling and grieving themselves.  They can't be responsible for trying to help potentially hundreds of adolescents.  

I'm not saying the school has to do a ton, but talk about it in homeroom for a few minutes over a few days, send something home to the parents, have peer counselors available for kids to talk to, etc.  

[Tiny]

This is rhetorical: As a parent I'd also think about MY response to this situation. How I felt, what my moral values were. I'd also consider any differences between what one's religion sez is the correct response, what one's personal/family response is, and what one's society/culture response is. There could be 3 very different messages my kid was hearing/perceiving. What response SHOULD your kid have? What is the correct response for your social circle, your family, your religious/moral values? (your kid may be feeling the tug of differences between those view points.)   My guess is a kid will mirror the parents point of view to the best of their ability (whether they agree with it or not).

As a kid if my parents (or teachers) asked me what I was 'feeling' about this situation - I probably wouldn't tell them what I was actually feeling if it didn't match the "right answer" for them (so, yes, I'd probably lie tot he best of my ability)... I wouldn't want to be a "bad" kid or get lectured about the right way to deal with the situation (when I didn't feel/see it that way). After all my parents(teachers) were trying to make sure I grew up with the appropriate moral values even if I didn't agree.   Yeah, I was a weird kid. 

I guess I'm just a tiny bit skeptical that parents can actually deal with their kid having a feeling/thought/way of dealing with something that might be different than the way it's suppose to be (the way the parent thinks/feels/acts).

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2017 11:31:01 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

As a teen I think the school needs to address it on some level.  Not glorify it, but take the opportunity to talk about how you don't ever really know what is going on in someone else's life.  Reasons to choose compassion, and highlight what help is available for kids who are struggling.  The family is already reeling and grieving themselves.  They can't be responsible for trying to help potentially hundreds of adolescents.  

I'm not saying the school has to do a ton, but talk about it in homeroom for a few minutes over a few days, send something home to the parents, have peer counselors available for kids to talk to, etc.  

I agree with you.  We have something known as a "Heart Team" that is always available at times like this.  It is a team of counselors who meet with the kids in the library just to talk.  That is exactly what you are talking about.  The kids simply have to ask to talk to the heart team, whether they knew the victim or not.  This is available after every tragedy including parental suicides as well.  Those are difficult on the kids, too.

We also do a lot with suicide awareness with hotline numbers all over the school.  There are tips posted for when your friend confides in you, etc.  We don't ignore suicides.  At the same time, you don't want to violate that family's privacy.  That privacy is a legal right as well as a personal right.