The Justice Department probe

[Value Buy]

is this a problem for Mueller and the Democrats?


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-probe-looms-as-possible-landmine-for-mueller/ar-BBHmKDT?li=BBnb7Kz

[kadee79]

Think it's too early to tell.  Will have to wait for the end report to come out which "says" it will be a few months yet.

[Phoenix84]

Maybe, as the article says, text messages of agents in Mueller's investigations could be used as evidence of bias in the investigation when prosecuting defendants at trial.  

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2017 14:06:28 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Maybe, as the article says, text messages of agents in Mueller's investigations could be used as evidence of bias in the investigation when prosecuting defendants at trial.  

I think it would make the prosecution's job of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt a crime was committed more difficult. But I would hope they have solid evidence before going to trial anyway.

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2017 14:30:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 26, 2017 14:06:28 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

... at trial.

... before going to trial ...

Dec 26, 2017 15:15:33 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

It already has been. ...

Which trial has it impacted?

[dondub]

I'm just hoping that Mueller will be allowed to finish and that all heads that should roll will roll. Doesn't matter one whit if they are Repos, Demos, or both.

[dezii]

Dec 26, 2017 10:09:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

is this a problem for Mueller and the Democrats?


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-probe-looms-as-possible-landmine-for-mueller/ar-BBHmKDT?li=BBnb7Kz

The only problem here is that there was  few investigaters who had their own feelings about the POTUS, that were not favorable. There is nothing found that it influenced their work on the committee , actually they have a excellent reputation as investigators as does Mueller and all the members of the committee doing the investigations....and as fast as Mueller found out about their feelings, , they were gone from the committee.

Who doesn't have feelings about the man..If u knew mine you would have to call the SS to report your suspecians ...

The only desire  of supporters of the President is their hope of finding anything at all to derail the investigation...make it gone...just in case at the end of the investigation, just possible it might find some connection the POTUS  has with Russia..that he had a inking there was Russian involvement in the election process working to favor him ,...that would be enough to suggest his election was not above board...   

[dezii]

Dec 26, 2017 16:12:22 GMT -5 dondub said:

I'm just hoping that Mueller will be allowed to finish and that all heads that should roll will roll. Doesn't matter one whit if they are Repos, Demos, or both.

or that nothing of any merit was found...

[Deleted]

Indictments and pleas mean items of merit have already been found.

[Value Buy]

Dec 26, 2017 16:25:15 GMT -5 oped said:

Indictments and pleas mean items of merit have already been found.

What if the subpena was based on dishonest information?
Doesn't anything found from it, become fruit from the poisonous tree, and is disallowed?

And lest we forget, the guilty pleas had nothing to do with collusion.....

[Deleted]

Omg. I seriously can’t go over this again.

[dezii]

Dec 26, 2017 20:40:36 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 26, 2017 16:25:15 GMT -5 oped said:

Indictments and pleas mean items of merit have already been found.

What if the subpena was based on dishonest information?
Doesn't anything found from it, become fruit from the poisonous tree, and is disallowed?

And lest we forget, the guilty pleas had nothing to do with collusion.....

Value...we don't know yet what will be found...possible nothing ...possible collusion...Why not let the investigation finish...So far cost is minimum....about $5 million ...which is peanuts...Star's investigation on the Clintons ran $70/80 million...In a year we'll see...or less if our Donald panics and fires him...then we will see some real fire works...

Think he'll be that stupid and try to go that route?

[dezii]

It seems the term "Witch Hunt" that our Donald came up with and his buddy Bannon loved is getting old as the Mueller investigation seems to be picking up steam...and possible coming too close to the Donald for his comfort.
------------------------------------------------
"But now, as Trump prepares to end his first year in office, the witch hunt narrative may have outlived its usefulness.

Mueller’s investigation has expanded and gained serious traction: The president’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and Manafort’s chief deputy, Rick Gates, have been indicted.

His former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, has pleaded guilty and is now a cooperating witness. So too is a former foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, who has admitted lying to the FBI about repeated contacts with alleged Russian cutouts who had offered the Trump campaign “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails.
--------------------------
"“Just from what’s been made public, it’s pretty clear the Trump campaign and family were willing and eager to work with the Russians,” said Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., a member of the House Intelligence Committee. “They showed almost no restraint in engaging with the Russians to see what they had to offer on their opponent. It was a ‘whatever it takes’ mentality.”

--------------------
"Whether all this adds up to “collusion” — the sensational charge of active collaboration between the Trump campaign and Moscow that was first laid out in the controversial dossier commissioned by the Clinton campaign — is far from clear. But for Swalwell and quite a few others, it is already clear that the Russian probe has been far more than a witch hunt. "
=====================


www.yahoo.com/news/mueller-probe-outgrows-witch-hunt-phase-100045988.html

[kadee79]

It might be a "witch" hunt, but they keep finding "warlocks"! 

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 28, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Mueller and the Democrats?

Mueller is a prosecutor, and politically impartial.    There is no "and" the Democrats, as they are not in partnership.  

Furthermore, should you question his impartiality, the man is a life long Republican.  

A lifelong Republican, appointed by a Republican. With a reputation for integrity.

But if the direction his investigation takes worries conservatives, rhey smear him.  Why aren’t they interested in getting the truth? 

[billisonboard]

Dec 28, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

..., the man is a life long Republican.  

President Trump has addressed this issue:

1. "Why doesn't he show his voter registration card? There's something on that voter registration card that he doesn't like."

2. "He doesn't have a voter registration card, or if he does, there's something on that card that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'party,' it might have 'Democrat.' And if you're a Democrat, you don't change your party, by the way."

3. "I have people that have been studying [Mueller's voter registration card] and they cannot believe what they're finding ... I would like to have him show his voter registration card, and can I be honest with you, I hope he can. Because if he can't, if he can't, if he wasn't registered as a Republican, which is a real possibility ... then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics."

4. "His grandmother said, 'Oh, no, he was registered as a Democrat, and I was there and I witnessed the registration.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting."

5. "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that Mueller's voter registration card is a fraud."

6. "Who knows about Mueller ? ... Who knows, who knows? Who cares right now?... I have my own theory on Mueller. Someday I will write a book, I will do another book, and it will do very successfully."

7. "I'll answer that question at the right time. I just don't want to answer it yet ... I don't talk about it anymore. The reason I don't is because then everyone is going to be talking about it as opposed to jobs, the military, the vets, security."

[Tennesseer]

I don't have a voter registration card nor have I even been denied the right to vote because I could not show it.

[dezii]

Dec 28, 2017 10:14:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 28, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

..., the man is a life long Republican.  

President Trump has addressed this issue:

1. "Why doesn't he show his voter registration card? There's something on that voter registration card that he doesn't like."

2. "He doesn't have a voter registration card, or if he does, there's something on that card that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'party,' it might have 'Democrat.' And if you're a Democrat, you don't change your party, by the way."

3. "I have people that have been studying [Mueller's voter registration card] and they cannot believe what they're finding ... I would like to have him show his voter registration card, and can I be honest with you, I hope he can. Because if he can't, if he can't, if he wasn't registered as a Republican, which is a real possibility ... then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics."

4. "His grandmother said, 'Oh, no, he was registered as a Democrat, and I was there and I witnessed the registration.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting."

5. "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that Mueller's voter registration card is a fraud."

6. "Who knows about Mueller ? ... Who knows, who knows? Who cares right now?... I have my own theory on Mueller. Someday I will write a book, I will do another book, and it will do very successfully."

7. "I'll answer that question at the right time. I just don't want to answer it yet ... I don't talk about it anymore. The reason I don't is because then everyone is going to be talking about it as opposed to jobs, the military, the vets, security."

and he's our POTUS....so damn embarrassing....I wonder if he watches and listens to his comments after he makes them.....

[dezii]

Dec 28, 2017 10:48:19 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I don't have a voter registration card nor have I even been denied the right to vote because I could not show it.

I had one, still might have in wallet but they don't ask for it anymore...just license  to cross name off the list...am in Florida.

Actually vote absent now

[Value Buy]

Dec 28, 2017 11:53:14 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Oregon does elections really well. Motor voter registration, vote by mail, and notifications if the ballot contains any tax increases. I feel like we get ballots at least a couple of times a year. I have one on my desk now.

Does Oregon mail you the official ballot or do you have to go somewhere and prove who you are to pick up the ballot?
If the ballot is mailed to you, how can we be assured it is mailed and received by the correct person?
What are the safeguards in place to stop voter fraud?
How can anyone be assured your finished ballot actually arrives back to the state?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2017 9:11:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 28, 2017 11:53:14 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Oregon does elections really well. Motor voter registration, vote by mail, and notifications if the ballot contains any tax increases. I feel like we get ballots at least a couple of times a year. I have one on my desk now.

Does Oregon mail you the official ballot or do you have to go somewhere and prove who you are to pick up the ballot?
If the ballot is mailed to you, how can we be assured it is mailed and received by the correct person?
What are the safeguards in place to stop voter fraud?
How can anyone be assured your finished ballot actually arrives back to the state?

the same way it works for absentee ballots in all 50 states, i would assume.

edit: you have hit the nail on the head, however.  99% of all voter fraud takes place in mail-in ballots.  it is far easier to commit fraud through the mail than in person. 

so, i ask you, AGAIN: why does the GOP not go after absentee voter fraud?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2017 11:28:42 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

You can check the status of your ballot online to see if it was received, counted, etc.

i think what VB is saying is that there is no way of knowing who is voting.  he is right.

you do know quite a bit with absentee tho.  in a good system, you know how many ballots went out, and how many came back.  those numbers should be the same, and there are good ways to verify that.  and it makes little sense to think that absentee ballots that went out would disappear and replacement ballots made and sent in fraudulently.  so i think the claim that is being made boils down to this:

what is to prevent your niece from filling out your voting card?

and the answer is: NOTHING.

but there is nothing to prevent you from voting your nieces wishes when you go to the polling place, either.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 28, 2017 10:07:43 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Dec 28, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Mueller is a prosecutor, and politically impartial.    There is no "and" the Democrats, as they are not in partnership.  

Furthermore, should you question his impartiality, the man is a life long Republican.  

A lifelong Republican, appointed by a Republican. With a reputation for integrity.

But if the direction his investigation takes worries conservatives, rhey smear him.  Why aren’t they interested in getting the truth? 

this might be a good time to point out that WHEN Mueller was appointed, NOBODY thought he was other than the PERFECT person for the job.  now, if he is slightly imperfect, that is fine- who isn't?  but those are the facts in this case, and should be remembered as we move forward.

i am heartened by Trump's comments last night to the NYT.  hopefully he means it.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2017 11:39:03 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Yup, for the voter fraud rate to be significant you'd have to steal from a number of mailboxes and then hope they didn't ask for a replacement ballot in an election that was unbelievably close.

I think it's the safeguards in the election office itself that matter the most.

i totally agree.

the grossest cases of voter fraud were done using FRAUDULENT BALLOTS.  in a robust election system, these fraudulent ballots would never even be counted, as the lock (the voter ID) would never match the key (the fraudulent ballot).  in order for this to be ensured, one must have solid voter registration confirmation.  this includes removing people who have died from the register, as well as people who have moved to other districts.  it is very challenging in a country where mobility is so easy.  there is nothing to prevent me from moving the month before an election, registering in Florida, and voting there.  however, the registration system HERE should be robust enough to NOT COUNT MY BALLOT when it comes in.

voting in two places at once is a much more difficult task, and is far less impactful than the above.  my earlier question stands as unanswered by any Republican.  i have been asking it since this voter ID bullshit first started.

[Value Buy]

Dec 30, 2017 10:51:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 30, 2017 9:11:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Does Oregon mail you the official ballot or do you have to go somewhere and prove who you are to pick up the ballot?
If the ballot is mailed to you, how can we be assured it is mailed and received by the correct person?
What are the safeguards in place to stop voter fraud?
How can anyone be assured your finished ballot actually arrives back to the state?

the same way it works for absentee ballots in all 50 states, i would assume.

edit: you have hit the nail on the head, however.  99% of all voter fraud takes place in mail-in ballots.  it is far easier to commit fraud through the mail than in person. 

so, i ask you, AGAIN: why does the GOP not go after absentee voter fraud?

Are you saying every voter in Oregon must go to their county agency in charge of ballots and request them or, phone in a request and they mail it to you?
As far as absentee voter fraud and a state that does only mail in ballots, it is two different things.
If you are inferring Republicans like voter fraud as much as the democrats, I will say they probably do.
I have no idea which party even has the highest percentage of absentee ballots in an election year. It could be Republicans because of vacationing retirees, etc, or it might be Democrats because of out of state military service or people just moving to another region and still voting in their old districts.
Perhaps Billisonboard could answer this for us as far as procedures for a state doing all mail in ballots?..........

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2017 11:56:28 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 30, 2017 10:51:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the same way it works for absentee ballots in all 50 states, i would assume.

edit: you have hit the nail on the head, however.  99% of all voter fraud takes place in mail-in ballots.  it is far easier to commit fraud through the mail than in person. 

so, i ask you, AGAIN: why does the GOP not go after absentee voter fraud?

Are you saying every voter in Oregon must go to their county agency in charge of ballots and request them or, phone in a request and they mail it to you?
As far as absentee voter fraud and a state that does only mail in ballots, it is two different things.
If you are inferring Republicans like voter fraud as much as the democrats, I will say they probably do.
I have no idea which party even has the highest percentage of absentee ballots in an election year. It could be Republicans because of vacationing retirees, etc, or it might be Democrats because of out of state military service or people just moving to another region and still voting in their old districts.
Perhaps Billisonboard could answer this for us as far as procedures for a state doing all mail in ballots?..........

this is a lot to unbundle. 

1) i am not saying anything about Oregon.  other than i have visited the state often, i know little about it.
2) yes, it is two different things.  but all mail in ballots have something in common: the voter doesn't need to go to a booth to vote.
3) your remark about the GOP is interesting.  would you also agree that both parties DISLIKE voter fraud equally?
4) absentee ballots are overwhelmingly Republican.

you didn't actually answer the question, but you gave me enough that i can deduce your answer.  thanks.

[billisonboard]

Dec 30, 2017 12:24:56 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

On a personal note I miss going to a polling place on election day. I liked meeting my neighbors, getting my "I voted" sticker, and feeling that energy of participating in my government. Voting by mall is a better system though.

. And hell

[dezii]

Dec 30, 2017 11:28:42 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

You can check the status of your ballot online to see if it was received, counted, etc.

really? How?  Link?

[Opti]

Dec 30, 2017 12:24:56 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

On a personal note I miss going to a polling place on election day. I liked meeting my neighbors, getting my "I voted" sticker, and feeling that energy of participating in my government. Voting by mall is a better system though.

My polling places don't do "I voted" stickers, so I am OK with not getting one. The tough thing about voting by mail is people like me who need to run the ballot to a post office. Our complex was created with mail slots in the outer doors so getting mail is secure, but sending mail out via the postman rarely works.

Except for sometimes bad work schedules, I am very lucky that my polling place is in walking distance. I also like voting in the last hour before the poll closes as I like the lack of lines.   In person voting can and does screen out some medical workers who end up doing double shifts. Its rare they know that ahead of time, so often they do not vote.

[dondub]

VB,

  The Repos much prefer tactics such as crosscheck, the foundations of which came in the POTUS theft in Florida in 2000. Much larger numbers are available to be

fraudulently removed from the right to vote than messing up a small handful of mail-in ballots. Couple that method with voter ID, poll closing in minority areas, and

other nefarious techniques used by the right and you have quite a clear picture that once the BS smoke clears there is the Repo party cooking the books in an

anti-democratic fashion.