SPYGATE; SMOKING GUN

[tallguy]

Jun 17, 2018 21:09:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 17, 2018 19:15:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Trump doesn't use email. #POTUSVSG [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" class="smile" alt="" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png"]

A luddite that won't use email, but tweets? How odd, if really true.

VSG - very silly guy

Almost.  It is more correctly Very Stupid Guy.  I was speaking to a couple of well-known (perhaps nationally-known) area conservatives yesterday.  Both are quite knowledgeable and quite accomplished.  Neither can stand Trump, and consider him not at all intelligent.  Speaking further with one who is extremely knowledgeable, I asked his opinion on my contention that Trump is the worst candidate ever put forth by any major party.  He pointed out that we have had bad guys nominated before, but that at least they were not dumb.  Trump is dumb too.   

[happyhoix]

Jun 18, 2018 1:41:00 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 17, 2018 21:09:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

A luddite that won't use email, but tweets? How odd, if really true.

VSG - very silly guy

Almost.  It is more correctly Very Stupid Guy.  I was speaking to a couple of well-known (perhaps nationally-known) area conservatives yesterday.  Both are quite knowledgeable and quite accomplished.  Neither can stand Trump, and consider him not at all intelligent.  Speaking further with one who is extremely knowledgeable, I asked his opinion on my contention that Trump is the worst candidate ever put forth by any major party.  He pointed out that we have had bad guys nominated before, but that at least they were not dumb.  Trump is dumb too.   

Well, dumb in most areas that politicians need to be knowledgeable, like world affairs, how the government works, the federal budget, etc.

Unfortunately, he's brilliant in two areas - marketing himself and propaganda - that have enabled him to get where he is in life. Too bad he wasn't smart enough to realize that his publicity stunt of running for POTUS might actually work.

[happyhoix]

Jun 15, 2018 20:56:12 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 15, 2018 20:09:58 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Is this a YUGE embarrassment to President Trump?  

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was jailed Friday after a federal judge revoked his $10 million bail based on new witness tampering charges brought by Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-charges-witness-tampering.html

You see an embarrassment for Trump. I see a bloody #RedTsunami building of people who've had it up to here with the fact the Peter Strzok and Lois Lerner are still on the federal payroll while Paul Manafort must report to prison-- and for what? Being a scumbag K-Street lobbyist and political fixer? Who the fuck isn't on K-Street? It's going to be a long and expensive legal battle- not unlike Flynn's (who, in any honest assessment of things is looking at a very strong possibility of the judgment being vacated), but one in which Manafort will come out just fine in my opinion. We will see. However, the case for "witness tampering" is extraordinarily weak- and you will note that there are two cases against Manafort because Mueller went judge or at least venue shopping- and the case in question is presided over by a partisan hack of a judge, US District Judge Amy Berman Jackson. Mueller & Co. are not having the same luck with District Judge T.S. Ellis. 

But keep crossing your fingers out there that "this is the one" that's going to "flip on Trump"... ridiculous: politics.theonion.com/kid-who-mowed-white-house-lawn-to-flip-on-trump-1826806871?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Politics_facebook

 I don't think Manafort will flip on Trump, either - not because he's loyal to Trump, but because if he came clean about his past business deals with Russia, he'd instantly become a target of their covert operations. You know, the guys who routinely murder journalists or Putin critics, even those living outside of Russia.

Manafort would rather rot in jail knowing his family is ok, than risk having them slaughtered by the Russians. After all, he might be able to get a Trump pardon and get out of jail. Russians aren't big on pardons.

No, I think Trump is more vulnerable to Cohen, who is showing some signs of flipping.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 18, 2018 7:14:20 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

 I don't think Manafort will flip on Trump, either - not because he's loyal to Trump, but because if he came clean about his past business deals with Russia, he'd instantly become a target of their covert operations. You know, the guys who routinely murder journalists or Putin critics, even those living outside of Russia.

Manafort would rather rot in jail knowing his family is ok, than risk having them slaughtered by the Russians. After all, he might be able to get a Trump pardon and get out of jail. Russians aren't big on pardons.

So now you say you believe in the dark hole/black hat/black star/dark matter fiddle faddle?

[Opti]

Jun 17, 2018 23:10:43 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 17, 2018 21:09:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

A luddite that won't use email, but tweets? How odd, if really true.

VSG - very silly guy

No no.

POTUSVSG: President Optimist Thinks is Unusually Smart, Virtuous, Sexy, and Genuine

Nice. Vote for Optimist in 2020. I promise minimal tweeting and will always seek to do the right thing.

[happyhoix]

Jun 18, 2018 10:25:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 18, 2018 7:14:20 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

 I don't think Manafort will flip on Trump, either - not because he's loyal to Trump, but because if he came clean about his past business deals with Russia, he'd instantly become a target of their covert operations. You know, the guys who routinely murder journalists or Putin critics, even those living outside of Russia.

Manafort would rather rot in jail knowing his family is ok, than risk having them slaughtered by the Russians. After all, he might be able to get a Trump pardon and get out of jail. Russians aren't big on pardons.

So now you say you believe in the dark hole/black hat/black star/dark matter fiddle faddle?

Not at all.

The black star/dark hat fiddle faddle believes that there is a Jewish/Liberal international cabal that hides in the background but controls every single aspect of life on this planet, and Clinton was part of the cabal, which is why all the forces in the universe are lining up to remove Trump from office. Plus, it's fictional.

The Russians, on the other hand, are not fictional at all, and not part of the secret international cabal. The Russians have a history of making journalists, political challengers, and other disagreeable people who know too much disappear, either by being murdered or 'suicide' murdered. Remember the man and his daughter who sought asylum in England and were both nearly murdered?

Manafort worked for the Russians in Ukraine long before he associated with Trump, and the charges against him now have to do with that work, not with his work on the Trump campaign (as far as I know).  So far, Trump does not appear to murder people who turn against him, but the Russians surely do, so Manafort has to be concerned that, if he did flip, it would earn him a visit, down the road, from some of Putin's goons. Or, worse yet, they would visit his family.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Soooo....

Where are we today?

Lynch AWOL , "The Committee also invited Former Attorney General Lynch, Former FBI Director Comey, and former Deputy Director McCabe to testify today. Mr. McCabe’s lawyer wrote that his client would rely on his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination to avoid answering any questions here today," Chairman Chuck Grassley said during his opening statement.

Comey AWOL (Comey under investigation: dailycaller.com/2018/06/18/comey-under-investigation/ ) and his attorney lied as to why: "Mr. Comey’s attorney tells us he is out of the country, although I saw he was in Iowa over the weekend. According to his twitter feed, he seems to be having a wonderful time. This is the second time since he was fired that Mr. Comey refused an invitation to testify here voluntarily. He has time for book tours and television interviews, but apparently no time to assist this Committee, which has primary jurisdiction over the Justice Department," Grassley said. "Ms. Lynch also chose not to show up. The need for transparency does not end when senior officials are fired or quit." - Senator Grassley

McCabe pleads the 5th www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/18/comey-refuses-testify-congress-mccabe-pleads-fifth/

[happyhoix]

Today, Stone admitted that, contrary to his original story, he did actually have contact with a Russian who offered 'dirt' on Clinton.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-associate-roger-stone-reveals-new-contact-with-russian-national-during-2016-campaign/ar-AAyKN16

He didn't confess it before, he says, because he forgot, but now not only does he remember talking to the Russian, he's certain the guy was a 'plant' by the FBI.

I was speeding a little on the way to work today. Actually, I didn't think I was speeding, but then I realized I was, a little bit, but it was an FBI guy who had his finger on the gas pedal, I just didn't know it at the time.

I can see how that can be a very handy way to escape the consequences of my actions

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 18, 2018 11:01:53 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 18, 2018 10:25:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

So now you say you believe in the dark hole/black hat/black star/dark matter fiddle faddle?

Not at all.

The black star/dark hat fiddle faddle believes that there is a Jewish/Liberal international cabal that hides in the background but controls every single aspect of life on this planet, and Clinton was part of the cabal, which is why all the forces in the universe are lining up to remove Trump from office. Plus, it's fictional.

Nice try, but you've cast your aspersions on the "spygate" conspiracy specifically in every instance. It comprises nothing Jewish or international, simply Paul's/CTH's theory about the FBI and DoJ being weaponized by a group of senior actors in both.

The Russians, on the other hand, are not fictional at all, and not part of the secret international cabal. The Russians have a history of making journalists, political challengers, and other disagreeable people who know too much disappear, either by being murdered or 'suicide' murdered. Remember the man and his daughter who sought asylum in England and were both nearly murdered?

I do. I also know such events are exceptionally rare, assassinations on foreign soil are rarer still, and assassinations of family members are virtually unheard of. FWIW, there's no conclusive evidence linking the Kremlin to the attempt on Mr. Skripal's life (none that can be publicly disclosed, at least). The event was so galvanizing because if the Kremlin is indeed behind the attempt, it constitutes the most brazen such attack by Russia in 30 years.

Manafort worked for the Russians in Ukraine long before he associated with Trump, and the charges against him now have to do with that work, not with his work on the Trump campaign (as far as I know).  So far, Trump does not appear to murder people who turn against him, but the Russians surely do, so Manafort has to be concerned that, if he did flip, it would earn him a visit, down the road, from some of Putin's goons. Or, worse yet, they would visit his family.

Another nice try, but your summary dismissal of "spygate" was based on Occam's razor: that a simpler explanation exists for the circumstantial evidence surfaced so far. To wit: Mr. Comey et al. may have goofed and violated protocol a bit in their zeal to root out Russian corruption despite good intentions; no conspiracies or "black hats" necessary.

The same applies equally to Mr. Manafort. The simplest explanation for why he hasn't "flipped" on Pres. Trump is that he has nothing of value to offer on the man. While it's possible he's worried that disclosures will inspire the Kremlin to come after his family, this is a much darker, more contrived, more conspiratorial explanation. If we apply Occam's razor, we ought to reject it.

Replies inline. TL;DR: you're sucking air.

Personally I think you should stick with being open-minded with respect to both dark hole/black hat/black star/dark matter fiddle faddle theories. There's simply too much we don't know about both.

[happyhoix]

Jun 18, 2018 17:01:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 18, 2018 11:01:53 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Not at all.

The black star/dark hat fiddle faddle believes that there is a Jewish/Liberal international cabal that hides in the background but controls every single aspect of life on this planet, and Clinton was part of the cabal, which is why all the forces in the universe are lining up to remove Trump from office. Plus, it's fictional.

Nice try, but you've cast your aspersions on the "spygate" conspiracy specifically in every instance. It comprises nothing Jewish or international, simply Paul's/CTH's theory about the FBI and DoJ being weaponized by a group of senior actors in both.

The Russians, on the other hand, are not fictional at all, and not part of the secret international cabal. The Russians have a history of making journalists, political challengers, and other disagreeable people who know too much disappear, either by being murdered or 'suicide' murdered. Remember the man and his daughter who sought asylum in England and were both nearly murdered?

I do. I also know such events are exceptionally rare, assassinations on foreign soil are rarer still, and assassinations of family members are virtually unheard of. FWIW, there's no conclusive evidence linking the Kremlin to the attempt on Mr. Skripal's life (none that can be publicly disclosed, at least). The event was so galvanizing because if the Kremlin is indeed behind the attempt, it constitutes the most brazen such attack by Russia in 30 years.

Manafort worked for the Russians in Ukraine long before he associated with Trump, and the charges against him now have to do with that work, not with his work on the Trump campaign (as far as I know).  So far, Trump does not appear to murder people who turn against him, but the Russians surely do, so Manafort has to be concerned that, if he did flip, it would earn him a visit, down the road, from some of Putin's goons. Or, worse yet, they would visit his family.

Another nice try, but your summary dismissal of "spygate" was based on Occam's razor: that a simpler explanation exists for the circumstantial evidence surfaced so far. To wit: Mr. Comey et al. may have goofed and violated protocol a bit in their zeal to root out Russian corruption despite good intentions; no conspiracies or "black hats" necessary.

The same applies equally to Mr. Manafort. The simplest explanation for why he hasn't "flipped" on Pres. Trump is that he has nothing of value to offer on the man. While it's possible he's worried that disclosures will inspire the Kremlin to come after his family, this is a much darker, more contrived, more conspiratorial explanation. If we apply Occam's razor, we ought to reject it.

Replies inline. TL;DR: you're sucking air.

Personally I think you should stick with being open-minded with respect to both dark hole/black hat/black star/dark matter fiddle faddle theories. There's simply too much we don't know about both.

Virgil we agree, actually, surprising as that is.   There is always the strong possibility that Manafort doesn't have anything he can trade on Trump. It's true that most of what he's in trouble for came prior to his association with Trump - all that money laundering for the oligarchs, which (I don't believe) had anything to do with Trump. (I could be wrong).

Of the other two options - that Manafort is such a loyal, upstanding man that he would never flip on Trump, even if he had some dirt, or that by revealing dirt he would get himself in hot water with the Russians, I would say the 'hot water with the Russians' is slightly more likely than the 'too loyal to Trump' scenario.

I'm not saying the Russians killing him is slightly more likely, I'm saying Manafort being too loyal is a lot less likely, since he's a shark that swam in a sea of like minded sharks, and loyalty means squat to sharks. I think if he had anything that he could use to save himself, even if it meant turning on Trump, he would do that (unless there are other factors, like the Russians, stopping him).

Just look at Cohen. Trump was almost his only customer, he gave him his career, yet I think he may be on the verge of singing like a canary to avoid a lengthy jail term. Once again, I could be wrong, we'll just have to wait and see.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This is astonishing-- by the way, NONE of this is in dispute. The I.G. report's summary is absurd in light of the facts:

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Occam's Razor: There's simply no simpler explanation for the exoneration of Hillary Clinton than the extreme anti-Trump political bias on the part of the senior leadership, including the Deputy Director of The FBI, Andy McCabe, the senior SES officer leading the investigation and four other senior FBI agents. And there's no simpler explanation for the goofy "Russiagate" conspiracy investigation than that the DOJ, and FBI were weaponized by Hillary Clinton / Democratic Party apparatchiks engaged in spying which they thought would go undetected because they expected Hillary to win- and they needed an excuse for what they were doing.

It's not our job any longer to prove that active political activity was ongoing in the DOJ and FBI was going on. It's their job, in light of the mountains of circumstantial evidence to prove that none of that impacted these two "investigations". 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

24:08 >>>> (backed up by text messages) 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Strzok to be subpoena'd: 

[billisonboard]

Jun 19, 2018 8:24:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Occam's Razor: There's simply no simpler explanation for the exoneration of Hillary Clinton than the extreme anti-Trump political bias on the part of the senior leadership, including the Deputy Director of The FBI, Andy McCabe, the senior SES officer leading the investigation and four other senior FBI agents. ...

I think "she didn't commit a prosecutable crime" is simpler than "vast conspiracy".

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 19, 2018 8:32:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 19, 2018 8:24:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Occam's Razor: There's simply no simpler explanation for the exoneration of Hillary Clinton than the extreme anti-Trump political bias on the part of the senior leadership, including the Deputy Director of The FBI, Andy McCabe, the senior SES officer leading the investigation and four other senior FBI agents. ...

I think "she didn't commit a prosecutable crime" is simpler than "vast conspiracy".

Only she did commit a prosecutable crime. And the evidence shows that the various agency actors bent over backwards to get her out of it.

The simplest explanation that fits the evidence is that Mr. McCabe, Mr. Comey et al. didn't want to be responsible for torpedoing the campaign of one of only two electable candidates in 2016, but they went too far in their efforts to prevent it.

All of the same actors moving onto the Russia probe is a curious coincidence, but I'm willing to chalk it up to "these were the most senior people who dealt with the most sensitive matters".

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Lisa Page: [Trump's] not ever going to become president, right? Right?!

Peter Strzok: No. No, he's not. We'll stop it. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 19, 2018 8:56:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 19, 2018 8:32:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think "she didn't commit a prosecutable crime" is simpler than "vast conspiracy".

Only she did commit a prosecutable crime. And the evidence shows that the various agency actors bent over backwards to get her out of it.

The simplest explanation that fits the evidence is that Mr. McCabe, Mr. Comey et al. didn't want to be responsible for torpedoing the campaign of one of only two electable candidates in 2016, but they went too far in their efforts to prevent it.

All of the same actors moving onto the Russia probe is a curious coincidence, but I'm willing to chalk it up to "these were the most senior people who dealt with the most sensitive matters".

She committed multiple felonies- and again, this isn't in dispute. The I.G. called this "prosecutorial discretion"- Comey stated, "no reasonable prosecutor would bring this to trial".

The problem with these conclusions are that they are complete horseshit. They wanted to stop Trump, and indicting Hillary would have all but ensured a Trump presidency. You can't look at this through any other lens than their deep and abiding fear and loathing of Donald Trump.

And it completely discredits any investigation of Donald Trump, or suggestion of "obstruction of justice". Especially in light of the known bias, but really in any case- one cannot say that the deliberate destruction of evidence in violation of a subpoena by Hillary Clinton- including deletion of emails to include the "acid washing" of her hard drive using BleachBit technology and the destruction of devices with hammers is not obstruction of justice that any reasonable prosecutor would bring to trial on the one hand, but on the other hand insist that President Trump's exercise of his absolute and final Constitutional authority over the justice department in firing James Comey-- on the strong recommendation of the ridiculously conflicted key witness in the case who is still running the investigation, Rod Rosenstein, I might add-- is somehow obstruction. 

In fact, people have been prosecuted for far less than the felonies Hillary Clinton committed- and by the way, she committed these felonies, including the mishandling of Top Secret / Special Access Program information in an effort to conceal underlying felonies- especially influence peddling. 

And these are the recent offenses. The Clintons are guilty of crimes on a scale that would make a mob boss blush (aside from murder- I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists): 

Going back to Whitewater which essentially was a series of mortgage applications and documents to extend a necessary line of credit. My source is an excerpt from James Stewart’s book BloodSport that was in the 3/18/96 Time magazine.



On 8/2/78, they told lender A they put 10% down on their purchase of Whitewater land. In fact, the borrowed that 10% from lender B. That violates 18 USC 1001 (omitting a material fact), 1014 (false statement on federally-related mortgage application), 371 (conspiracy), and 1341 (mail fraud).



They also exaggerated the value of their Whitewater land as $400,000 when it was only worth about $85,000. Absent that exaggeration, the Clintons had a negative net worth and would not have gotten their needed line of credit extended. That would have forced them to pay it off which they could not do.



Two or more separate instances of mail fraud in a 10-year period constitute violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act 18 USC 1961-8. These are all federal felonies meaning they carry possible prison terms as well as large fines.

Tax Fraud: On their 1978, 1979, and 1980 federal income tax returns they deducted interest they did not pay and included the amortization portion of mortgage payments as interest. That is also a felony and violates IRC §7206.

"Cattle Futures" Bribe: The 1979 income tax return also contained the $100,000 cattle futures option profit on what Hillary claimed was a $1,000 investment. But investigators could not find evidence that she ever made the $1,000 initial investment. No smoking gun was uncovered (but we see how investigations of the Clintons are handled, so...) but here's what happened: A major company with business before the state of AR wanted to bribe Governor Bill Clinton $100,000. The Clintons agreed to accept the bribe. The briber bet on both sides of a cattle futures option contract.
Shortly thereafter, when it had been determined which side won, that one of the two option contracts was backdated and false documentation was created to make it look like Hillary had bought it beforehand for $1,000. She then used that fraudulent paperwork to receive the $100,000 cash intended for Bill.
Hllary said she learned how to make the successful bet by “reading the Wall Street Journal.” In spite of her incredible—literally—beginner’s luck on her first option contract, she never bought another. Give me a break! 

There's so much more-- I mean piles of felonies and potential felonies. For example, we also know that Hillary Clinton played a central role in rigging the Democratic Party primary against Bernie Sanders. Were laws broken? Likely. 

We know that the lead anti-Trumper Peter Strzok was primarily responsible for scrubbing Comey's pre-interview exoneration report: 
www.dailywire.com/news/25420/comey-memo-bombshell-evidence-hillary-committed-ryan-saavedra

We also know that "intent" has ZIP, ZERO, NADA to do with the law. We know the standard is "gross negligence" and we know that was indeed the draft memo wording before Peter Strzok got involved and the wording was changed to "extremely careless" (which wording does NOT actually exonerate her). 

The whole corrupt game is up- and so the game now is the old "Potomac Two-Step" - to run out the clock on the Trump Presidency and get back to business as usual. 

I'm here to tell you: not this time.

Cleanup Crew or Coverup Crew - pick your uniform. But the Coverup Crew is going to lose this time. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The fact is- and again, nothing is in dispute any longer- that through a combination of liberal bias, extreme irrational deranged hatred of Donald Trump, and possible fear of Hillary Clinton- officials went to extremes to help aid and abet Hillary Clinton's felonious activities. www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/clinton-email-investigators-broke-rules-to-please-hillary/

[billisonboard]

Jun 19, 2018 8:56:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 19, 2018 8:32:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think "she didn't commit a prosecutable crime" is simpler than "vast conspiracy".

Only she did commit a prosecutable crime. ..

Oh, I fully accept that you think she committed a prosecutable crime. I was just commenting on AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP's claim a vast conspiracy was a simpler explanation. Look at the great lengths he has to go to explain his simple explanation. I get that "Occam's Razor" is cool to claim as support for your position but it just doesn't apply here for Paul.

[happyhoix]

Yes, please let's go back to 1990 and spend another ten years and 60 million dollars to launch a fourth investigation of the Clintons for Whitewater - Maybe the fourth time we can find something to indict one of them, finally.

Considering the self dealing charity Trump ran since 1999, using donated money to pay off fines against his businesses, and his sleazy business practices (like bringing in undocumented Polish construction workers for his first big project, forcing them to live at the construction site, refusing to provide them with gloves, hard hats or masks, to demolish the old Bonwit Teller building on Fifth Avenue,  then paying them sub standard wages and then refusing the final payments, ending, finally, in a >1 million dollar settlement against Trump)  it's a little surprising to me that you would have such a temper tantrum because Clinton fudged some numbers on a bank application for a loan.  www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/nyregion/trump-tower-illegal-immigrant-workers-union-settlement.html

For myself, I would rather wait to see what comes out of the Mueller investigation. In just one year, it's uncovered a much larger nest of snakes than Whitewater did in all the decades of investigations. But the really big fireworks may come when NY State uses information provided by the Mueller investigation to launch enterprise corruption proceedings against Trump and his businesses.

nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/what-we-learned-from-the-first-year-of-muellers-probe.html

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 19, 2018 9:42:31 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

"Cattle Futures" Bribe: The 1979 income tax return also contained the $100,000 cattle futures option profit on what Hillary claimed was a $1,000 investment. But investigators could not find evidence that she ever made the $1,000 initial investment. No smoking gun was uncovered (but we see how investigations of the Clintons are handled, so...) but here's what happened: A major company with business before the state of AR wanted to bribe Governor Bill Clinton $100,000. The Clintons agreed to accept the bribe. The briber bet on both sides of a cattle futures option contract.
Shortly thereafter, when it had been determined which side won, that one of the two option contracts was backdated and false documentation was created to make it look like Hillary had bought it beforehand for $1,000. She then used that fraudulent paperwork to receive the $100,000 cash intended for Bill.
Hllary said she learned how to make the successful bet by “reading the Wall Street Journal.” In spite of her incredible—literally—beginner’s luck on her first option contract, she never bought another. Give me a break! 

I read a journal article about this, where two statistician looked at all the variables, returns, market factors, etc. at the time. Their conclusion was that a trader with no special inside information would have a 1-in-23-trillion chance at making the returns the Clintons did, which I believe was the most favourable estimate.

Reasonable observers during the 2016 election knew Ms. Clinton was crooked. But the character question in the election was: was she more crooked than Pres. Trump? Personally I didn't think so and still don't. The man lies, fabricates, misdirects, exploits, betrays, wastes money, punishes honesty, and errs in judgment on a weekly basis. I try to limit how much evil I speak of world leaders hence I'll leave it at that.

I was worried that Ms. Clinton would get into the White House and start WWIII. It remains to be seen whether Pres. Trump can manage to avoid the same during his tenure.

Money and power. Power and money.

[happyhoix]

Jun 19, 2018 11:31:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 19, 2018 9:42:31 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

"Cattle Futures" Bribe: The 1979 income tax return also contained the $100,000 cattle futures option profit on what Hillary claimed was a $1,000 investment. But investigators could not find evidence that she ever made the $1,000 initial investment. No smoking gun was uncovered (but we see how investigations of the Clintons are handled, so...) but here's what happened: A major company with business before the state of AR wanted to bribe Governor Bill Clinton $100,000. The Clintons agreed to accept the bribe. The briber bet on both sides of a cattle futures option contract.
Shortly thereafter, when it had been determined which side won, that one of the two option contracts was backdated and false documentation was created to make it look like Hillary had bought it beforehand for $1,000. She then used that fraudulent paperwork to receive the $100,000 cash intended for Bill.
Hllary said she learned how to make the successful bet by “reading the Wall Street Journal.” In spite of her incredible—literally—beginner’s luck on her first option contract, she never bought another. Give me a break! 

I read a journal article about this, where two statistician looked at all the variables, returns, market factors, etc. at the time. Their conclusion was that a trader with no special inside information would have a 1-in-23-trillion chance at making the returns the Clintons did, which I believe was the most favourable estimate.

Reasonable observers during the 2016 election knew Ms. Clinton was crooked. But the character question in the election was: was she more crooked than Pres. Trump? Personally I didn't think so and still don't. The man lies, fabricates, misdirects, exploits, betrays, wastes money, punishes honesty, and errs in judgment on a weekly basis. I try to limit how much evil I speak of world leaders hence I'll leave it at that.

I was worried that Ms. Clinton would get into the White House and start WWIII. It remains to be seen whether Pres. Trump can manage to avoid the same during his tenure.

Money and power. Power and money.

Sadly my requirement for is a POTUS is someone who has some modicum of integrity, a lot of dignity and respect for the office,  and who won't screw up too much with allies or enemies, either one.

Plus, if he/she could avoid embarrassing me in front of my international co-workers, that's a bonus.

Not a lot to ask, I don't think, but the current model fails at every turn.

Time to vote for the robot overlords.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

There's no question that Trump is the most transparent, and possibly the cleanest politician we've ever had. This is a reasonable conclusion because if there was ONE SPEC of dirt on him, we'd have seen it by now. And you know that I'm right about that.

In the meantime, over here in reality-- the dumpster fire that is the DOJ and FBI continues to rage...

Peter Strzok VERY quietly escorted from FBI building on FRIDAY (what day is today?) and not one bit of coverage-- the fake news is stuck on the fake "border crisis" which has been status quo since 1996 When Clinton signed the current law.

FBI Agent Peter Strzok Escorted Out Of Office Last Friday- Kept Hidden Until Today

theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/06/19/fbi-agent-peter-strzok-escorted-out-of-office-last-friday-kept-hidden-until-today/

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

There'll be no Potomac Two Step this time. #NotThisTime #LockThemAllUp

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 19, 2018 11:20:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 19, 2018 8:56:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Only she did commit a prosecutable crime. ..

Oh, I fully accept that you think she committed a prosecutable crime. I was just commenting on AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP 's claim a vast conspiracy was a simpler explanation. Look at the great lengths he has to go to explain his simple explanation. I get that "Occam's Razor" is cool to claim as support for your position but it just doesn't apply here for Paul.

She committed crimes. It is not in dispute. Director Comey exercised (improperly we now know) "prosecutorial discretion" in letting her off. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 19, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... Director Comey exercised (improperly we now know) "prosecutorial discretion" in letting her off. 

FWIW, no he didn't:

... In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. ...
...
As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

Statement by FBI Director James B. Comey on the Investigation of Secretary Hillary Clinton’s Use of a Personal E-Mail System

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 19, 2018 16:56:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 19, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... Director Comey exercised (improperly we now know) "prosecutorial discretion" in letting her off. 

FWIW, no he didn't:

... In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. ...
...
As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

Statement by FBI Director James B. Comey on the Investigation of Secretary Hillary Clinton’s Use of a Personal E-Mail System

I wish you expressed the same unyielding support for moderation decisions.

GEL: I think that's stupid.

Virgil: You just called me 'stupid'. You've left me no choice: A ban for you!

GEL: But... but...

(two weeks later)

Billis: I see you're back from your ban for insulting Virgil.

GEL: I didn't insult Virgil. I said "that's stupid", not "you're stupid". I didn't deserve a ban.

Billis: Oh, I fully accept that you think you didn't commit a bannable offense. But you did. The ban proves it.

GEL: I did not! Be reasonable!

Billis: (quoting Virgil) "You just called me 'stupid'. You've left me no choice: A ban for you!"  Yep. There it is in black and white. Virgil's the authority and he makes it clear you "left [him] no choice". Bannable offense.

Virgil: