A win for President Trump: tax reform in the Senate passes!

[NastyWoman]

Thanks tallguy . I thought the rule was each link needed some of the text of the article to go with it for the posters here, but not so much that we would infringe on the copyrights of the author?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

For me, the question is a rather simple one: who's money is it? 

That party keeps it.

If you believe all money is Washington's and they have a pile from which they allocate it- then that explains this ignorance pretty well.

[happyhoix]

Nov 30, 2017 23:50:40 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

For me, the question is a rather simple one: who's money is it? 

That party keeps it.

If you believe all money is Washington's and they have a pile from which they allocate it- then that explains this ignorance pretty well.

That's fine, as long as it is advertised that way.

Trump keeps saying his tax plan does NOT benefit the billionaires. In fact, 60% of the tax cut will be to corporates and the rich. Lower and middle class families will either get nothing or a few hundred. Trump will personally get over 1 billion in benefits from this tax plan.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/trump-sells-tax-plan-with-false-claims/ar-BBFWCM2

They need to state up front that this will add a trillion dollars to the national debt.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-its-such-a-big-deal-the-senate-tax-bill-would-add-dollar1-trillion-to-debt/ar-BBFYFrE

And the GOP needs to be honest that they are following Paul Ryan's wet dream to next cut back SSI and medicare benefits and use that to offset the trillion dollar hit caused by the tax reduction plan.  

www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/us/politics/republicans-entitlement-programs-deficit.html

If Trump and the GOP were just honest that the only voters that matter are the wealthy ones, and all their efforts in congress are to funnel more money to the upper class, I would be fine with it. Just stop lying that this is good for everyone, that everyone will win, and everyone will have more money in their pockets.

Trump, especially, needs to stop lying about how he won't benefit from it. He and his family benefits more than most.

Or, he can keep lying and find out in 2020, when no one is better off except for him and his rich buddies, that the poor and middle class also get a vote.

[Value Buy]

Just so everyone knows, the Senate is voting on the tax cuts today.
Republicans say they have the votes.

[Value Buy]

Jeff Flake is a yes vote.

[dondub]

  I'm going to disagree with that assertion. What will happen is these companies will continue to buy back their stock, which they have proven before, to raise the

stock price and increase executive compensation. Chances that this windfall goes to employee wages is just wishful thinking (or BS marketing by the Repos).

Chances these companies will go into overdrive without the requisite consumer disposable income to buy the products is a fallacy.

[giramomma]

Dec 1, 2017 12:32:52 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:24:23 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So, you are asserting then, that I will stay solidly in the middle class or climb up the socioeconomic ladder by donating money to my favorite political organization?

That's a solution I hadn't thought of yet.

this tax cut is primarily focused on business growth, which creates jobs and growth that anyone may profit from.  even though under this plan my taxes go up, i think it will unleash economic growth like you've never seen before, and makes me consider taking on a bunch more side work to do a project.  Booking that project for 2 years at a 40% tax rate didn't make it worth it... but at 25% tax rate, it starts to become worth it to consider working nights and weekends for 2 years to make our money

Well, perhaps my issue then..since I'm a public sector worker. I'm told I'm part of the problem, rather than worthy of the the pay I receive.

What kind of hiring and job creation will you be doing? Will you be creating nice family supporting jobs as a business?

ETA: What will you be doing with all the extra income? Spending it or saving it? If you are going to spend it...how/on what? What sort of demand will you create to compel others to create good jobs...

[weltschmerz]

Dec 1, 2017 12:32:52 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:24:23 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So, you are asserting then, that I will stay solidly in the middle class or climb up the socioeconomic ladder by donating money to my favorite political organization?

That's a solution I hadn't thought of yet.

this tax cut is primarily focused on business growth, which creates jobs and growth that anyone may profit from.  even though under this plan my taxes go up, i think it will unleash economic growth like you've never seen before, and makes me consider taking on a bunch more side work to do a project.  Booking that project for 2 years at a 40% tax rate didn't make it worth it... but at 25% tax rate, it starts to become worth it to consider working nights and weekends for 2 years to make our money

CEOs admitted they DON"T create jobs with tax cuts, but repurchase their own stock and funnel their money to their investors.

www.salon.com/2017/11/17/ceos-admit-they-wont-create-jobs-with-their-tax-cut-money/

Corporate leaders say tax cut proceeds will go to shareholders

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/trump-s-tax-promises-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

[thyme4change]

Dec 1, 2017 12:19:20 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jeff Flake is a yes vote.

"Ohhh, I'm Jeff Flake. Look at my backbone. I'm doing the right thing. Trump is the wrong guy. Tax cuts will add to the deficit, and that is bad."

Voting record:

Votes with Trump, every single time. Not one dissent.

Trump is right. That guy is a loser. I'm glad he will be out of office. Get a paid to write a book bagging on Trump, but doesn't use his power to do a god damn thing about it.

[Value Buy]

Dec 1, 2017 14:30:05 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 1, 2017 12:19:20 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jeff Flake is a yes vote.

"Ohhh, I'm Jeff Flake. Look at my backbone. I'm doing the right thing. Trump is the wrong guy. Tax cuts will add to the deficit, and that is bad."

Voting record:

Votes with Trump, every single time. Not one dissent.

Trump is right. That guy is a loser. I'm glad he will be out of office. Get a paid to write a book bagging on Trump, but doesn't use his power to do a god damn thing about it.

Right now it looks like Corker might be the holdout. If someone else bolts,
Pence might have to do the tiebreaker.

[thyme4change]

Dec 1, 2017 16:40:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 1, 2017 14:30:05 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

"Ohhh, I'm Jeff Flake. Look at my backbone. I'm doing the right thing. Trump is the wrong guy. Tax cuts will add to the deficit, and that is bad."

Voting record:

Votes with Trump, every single time. Not one dissent.

Trump is right. That guy is a loser. I'm glad he will be out of office. Get a paid to write a book bagging on Trump, but doesn't use his power to do a god damn thing about it.

Right now it looks like Corker might be the holdout. If someone else bolts,
Pence might have to do the tiebreaker.

What a nail biter. I wonder what Pence will do!

[swasat]

Dec 1, 2017 16:41:56 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 1, 2017 16:40:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Right now it looks like Corker might be the holdout. If someone else bolts,
Pence might have to do the tiebreaker.

What a nail biter. I wonder what Pence will do!

LOL!!

That guy is so spineless. I am on tenterhooks waiting to see 

[Value Buy]

Corker is the only Republican hold out, along with every Democratic Senator..........
The bill is passed.
Now for reconciliation, which will be hard to do.
Everyone wants their own piece of it, but at least Congress is trying to actually do some important legislation.
Schumer proved to be the laughing stock of the Senate in his speech last night

[Value Buy]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-passes-sweeping-revision-of-us-tax-code/ar-BBG1eq3?li=BBnb7Kz

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Now they can sit down and read it. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 2, 2017 8:34:33 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Now they can sit down and read it. 

The parts they can decipher

[dezii]

Dec 2, 2017 9:04:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 2, 2017 8:34:33 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Now they can sit down and read it. 

The parts they can decipher

Still have to get together with house version and work it out ...so have to see final bill...still will add a trillion to the debt, oops sorry...watching Michael Smerconish, had big time Republican economist on...stand corrected...still 1.4 trillion  added to debt..[guess it's all that hand written stuff on the side..]...if interest rates go up, they are and will...that will not help either...we have been lucky our interest rates have been so low...not going to continue...

[dezii]

Dec 2, 2017 9:36:50 GMT -5 midjd said:

Why was "you have to pass it to know what's in it" enough to lose the midterms for Dems in 2010 (rightfully so, that's not a good way to govern) but is A-OK when it comes to a tax reform bill that adds $1.4 TRILLION to the deficit?

Any Republicans who cited Pelosi's comments as reason the ACA should be invalidated/repealed should be infuriated with the way this bill was handled. 

Republicans...with control of everything...still was cowed by Trump....could have worked with Dems...Many would have crossed aisle ..and come up with much better, fairer bill...

Think the feeling I am going to be dead...[McCain} when the chickens come home to roost on this turkey of a bill...or long out of office when higher taxes and other bad things are enacted because of this legislation..it'll be those guys in office problem then

[Rob Base 2.0]

I just find it interesting all this public bickering among republican congress dudes to get this passed. I am sure the democrats bickered about obama care, but i dont remember it being so public.

Also the real bill isn't approved. they have to conference it in a House-Senate committee, so expect even more public bickering.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Dec 2, 2017 9:36:50 GMT -5 midjd said:

Why was "you have to pass it to know what's in it" enough to lose the midterms for Dems in 2010 (rightfully so, that's not a good way to govern) but is A-OK when it comes to a tax reform bill that adds $1.4 TRILLION to the deficit?

Any Republicans who cited Pelosi's comments as reason the ACA should be invalidated/repealed should be infuriated with the way this bill was handled. 

the same reason it is now OK for democrats to complain about it now. All politicians are hypocrites, politics 101. surprised you didn't know that by now :-)

Also, this is not the FINAL bill yet. They have to do that in a Senate- House conference committee (which will be mote fun times)

[billisonboard]

Dec 2, 2017 11:29:52 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

... (which will be mote fun times)

Typo or truth?.

mote

mōt/

noun

a tiny piece of a substance.

[dezii]

A summation of tax brackets  from the Senate version...
---------------------------------
A biggie for me...and remember, with our current deficit of $20 Trillion...and historic low interest rates for record long time but now starting to climb and climb it will...just say a 1/4 to a 1/2 point on 20 plus trillion...u are talking some seriouse dollars...believe today with historic low interest rates , interest cost a year approaching $300 Billion...each year..

-------------------------------------------
"Deficit increase

The bill Republicans passed -- at least as of just before 9 p.m. -- adds nearly $1.5 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, more than the roughly $1 trillion it was supposed to add to the deficit from a previous analysis, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. That didn't stop Republican fiscal hawks -- except for Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, the only "no" vote -- from voting for the bill.
------------------------------------

www.cbsnews.com/news/tax-bill-whats-in-the-final-version-passed-by-the-senate/

[Value Buy]

From your link:
Different individual tax brackets

The Senate bill has more individual tax brackets than the House bill does, something the two chambers will have to work out in conference. The individual tax cuts are temporary, unlike tax cuts for businesses, which are permanent.



The Senate bill includes these tax brackets:



10 percent (for individuals earning up to $9,525 and married couples filing jointly earning up to $19,050)

12 percent (from $9,525 to $38,700 for individuals and $77,400 for married couples filing jointly)

I am confused. The ten percent bracket after the 24,000 married deduction is taken off from their total income.
In other words, I think they pay 10% tax rate if they are $9,525 over all their allowable dependent deductions.
This seems to be a poorly written article, as they write about the 12,000 and 24,000 deduction further down in the article.

[tallguy]

Dec 2, 2017 12:46:57 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

From your link:
Different individual tax brackets

The Senate bill has more individual tax brackets than the House bill does, something the two chambers will have to work out in conference. The individual tax cuts are temporary, unlike tax cuts for businesses, which are permanent.



The Senate bill includes these tax brackets:



10 percent (for individuals earning up to $9,525 and married couples filing jointly earning up to $19,050)

12 percent (from $9,525 to $38,700 for individuals and $77,400 for married couples filing jointly)

I am confused. The ten percent bracket after the 24,000 married deduction is taken off from their total income.
In other words, I think they pay 10% tax rate if they are $9,525 over all their allowable dependent deductions.
This seems to be a poorly written article, as they write about the 12,000 and 24,000 deduction further down in the article.

Yes, the 10% is on taxable income.  That is after deductions are taken.  An increased standard deduction will make things simpler and allow more people to avoid itemizing, but it does not mean a tax cut for them.  Some would have had still larger deductions to itemize if they were not being disallowed, and the plan also eliminates the personal exemption.  A married couple with two children might get an $11,300 increase in the standard deduction (which may in fact only be a fairly small increase over their itemized deductions) but would lose $16,400 in exemptions.  That means a higher taxable income than under the current law.  

[dezii]

Dec 2, 2017 13:06:40 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 2, 2017 12:46:57 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

From your link:
Different individual tax brackets

The Senate bill has more individual tax brackets than the House bill does, something the two chambers will have to work out in conference. The individual tax cuts are temporary, unlike tax cuts for businesses, which are permanent.



The Senate bill includes these tax brackets:



10 percent (for individuals earning up to $9,525 and married couples filing jointly earning up to $19,050)

12 percent (from $9,525 to $38,700 for individuals and $77,400 for married couples filing jointly)

I am confused. The ten percent bracket after the 24,000 married deduction is taken off from their total income.
In other words, I think they pay 10% tax rate if they are $9,525 over all their allowable dependent deductions.
This seems to be a poorly written article, as they write about the 12,000 and 24,000 deduction further down in the article.

Yes, the 10% is on taxable income.  That is after deductions are taken.  An increased standard deduction will make things simpler and allow more people to avoid itemizing, but it does not mean a tax cut for them.  Some would have had still larger deductions to itemize if they were not being disallowed, and the plan also eliminates the personal exemption.  A married couple with two children might get an $11,300 increase in the standard deduction (which may in fact only be a fairly small increase over their itemized deductions) but would lose $16,400 in exemptions.  That means a higher taxable income than under the current law.  

In going over the bill again ...I forgot to mention these add on's....not small additions for me...wonder what reaction will be when we get first major oil spill and desruptions on migration of beasts and such.....and we will
==========================
 
The bill also makes other changes that reach far beyond the tax code itself. It repeals the individual mandate from the Affordable Care Act, a major change that was added in recent weeks as part of a broader GOP effort to dismantle the Obama-era law.
---------------------------
Is it 13 million who will lose their insurance...so many Trump supporters...I kind of forgot...I know he'll blame the loss on Obama and Clinton anyway...and his base will stand there in their red hats and nod their heads up and down and say   "Yup..lock em up"



It also authorizes oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska

Any one want to guess who that that is going to benefit...?  U said Big Oil..? Give that customer the big cigar thar...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 1, 2017 7:18:37 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

The money belongs to those whose labor created it, and from whom it was misappropriated from.

the Proles.  

Incorrect. The laborers are entitled only to what they agree to. If ownership- then ownership. If wages- then wages. 

[dezii]

Nov 29, 2017 16:43:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think it's a good bill.

Poor people don't pay taxes, rich people pay taxes, so it makes sense that any tax cuts would affect the rich for the most part.

It's a misnomer that poor people lose money under this bill.  It simply eliminates the individual mandate, giving poor people the choice not to carry health insurance.  This means that they may CHOOSE not to get medicaide and obamacare subsidies for health insurance that they may otherwise qualify for.  So they really haven't lost any money, just benefits they elected not to take.  This is fine in my book as no one should be forced to buy something just because they exist.  Of all the Obamacare provisions, this is the one that I most viehamately disagree with.

Understand...however, say regarding health care , how do u suggest they [ the health workers] explain and deal with the folks who show up to a emergency room but have no insurance....if we admit them who pays the bill...If the 23 year old who wipes out with his cycle and is carried in with a broken body screaming in pain but no insurance ...who tells him sorry and then who moves him outside to the curb...just wondering.....

[believe we have medical folks here possible it will be them to do so...not me, I'm too squeamish and to much of a liberal softie...possible some of our tougher more conservative folks here...Paul? ]

[Tennesseer]

[dezii]

Dec 4, 2017 12:34:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 1, 2017 7:18:37 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

The money belongs to those whose labor created it, and from whom it was misappropriated from.

the Proles.  

Incorrect. The laborers are entitled only to what they agree to. If ownership- then ownership. If wages- then wages. 

and if due to lack of demand for workers..ownership sets what ever it feels it can get away with as far as wages...and if it gets out of hand as workers object ..as it has in the past...then hires guards[goons[ to protect the places of business..[ also done in the past] , even get the correct politicians into  office..sympathetic to ownership...[slip $ under the table] ....that is ok with u too correct...?

[Lets face it...biggest problem is the worker...now if we can somehow take care of that little problem...hmmmmmm......]

[dezii]

Dec 5, 2017 12:26:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Priceless Tenn......mucho kudos..... ...