A win for President Trump: tax reform in the Senate passes!

[Value Buy]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-melting-republican-opposition-to-tax-cuts/ar-BBFTaxo

[billisonboard]

When you absolutely have to pass something, anything.

Top Republicans were in whatever-it-takes mode on Tuesday, ... (from the link in the OP)

Yeah, quite a win.

[happyhoix]

It'll be great.

By 2020, when the Donald and all his wealthy buddies have grown even fatter, and the 'trickle down effect' has once again failed to trickle down to the middle and lower classes, and the GOP has managed to defund the ACA so people who had insurance don't anymore, the GOP will be sitting on the sidelines wondering what the hell happened.

Wouldn't be surprised if a full blown socialist gets elected. Not the direction I want our country to go in, but as the income inequality gap keeps expanding exponentially, there's going to be a flashpoint, and it won't be pretty.

Not that the 1% will care. They'll buy their own islands and hire their own minions, and Trump will be right there with them, if he isn't in jail.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It will be interesting to see if Iowa swings back to being a blue state.   Part of why Trump won big here is because the rural areas bought into his promises that he would provide better CHEAPER health care and protect their way of life.  Similar message to what he sent to the coal miners.

These areas will be the hardest hit by the new tax plan.

I don't know how it will go with our representatives and congressmen.   Several of them have been running unopposed for decades.   I don't care if it's Mickey Mouse running against them I just wish for SOMEONE anyone to run against them so we can get fresh blood.  We're going to end up like South Carolina and Strom Thurmond if we keep it up.

[Tennesseer]

"Another win for President Trump is coming"

Another loss for the vast majority of American citizens. But a big win for trump's own pocket.

[movingforward]

Nov 29, 2017 9:43:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

It'll be great.

By 2020, when the Donald and all his wealthy buddies have grown even fatter, and the 'trickle down effect' has once again failed to trickle down to the middle and lower classes, and the GOP has managed to defund the ACA so people who had insurance don't anymore, the GOP will be sitting on the sidelines wondering what the hell happened.

Wouldn't be surprised if a full blown socialist gets elected. Not the direction I want our country to go in, but as the income inequality gap keeps expanding exponentially, there's going to be a flashpoint, and it won't be pretty.

Not that the 1% will care. They'll buy their own islands and hire their own minions, and Trump will be right there with them, if he isn't in jail.

Well, it's too bad that a great number of the people that voted for Trump were too stupid to recognize the fact the ACA and Obamacare were the same thing...Another group of people are expecting their insurance premiums to be cut by 30% because they drank the kool-aid that the ACA is the only reason their premiums were rising. Get rid of the ACA and premiums should magically drop, right

I agree, if the GOP fails here then we run the risk of a full blown socialist getting elected which is not what I want.

[Value Buy]

I just am amazed at how many people here are worried about a tax cut for them and their family.
Please remember you can always write a check to the IRS and continue paying your fair share every year!

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2017 10:52:12 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I just am amazed at how many people here are worried about a tax cut for them and their family.
Please remember you can always write a check to the IRS and continue paying your fair share every year!

I'm not worried about tax cuts.

It's just that after a few years, now of having an extra $30/month, due to tax changes at the state level, I don't find that that amount of money has elevated our life in any way.

So. Tell me why I should extol the virtues of having an extra $400/year. How does this amount of money increase my status? How does it ensure that I climb up the socio-economic ladder from solid middle class to something closer to upper middle class? Or how will an extra $400 ensure that my family stays solid middle class?

We seem to have lost our phil script button...but running a simple savings calculator, if I save that $400, in 10 years I'll double my money...Why should I get excited over $800 in 10 years?  That seems rather insulting, actually.

ETA: The rhetoric about any tax cut being good is just like when folks say "ANY JOB" created is just awesome. Yet, I don't see folks clamboring to quit their jobs that pay 70-100K+ to take newly created minimum wage jobs...because these are the fastest growing jobs in our state. Shoot. I don't even see our lawmakers quitting their jobs to work as CNAs or as cashiers at waterparks. I wonder why that is...if these sorts of low paying job opportunities are so great?

So, thank you..but I will not be grateful over brags that can be given in 20 second sound bites. I will critically think about what is happening around me, and decide for myself if it's a good thing or not.

[Value Buy]

Nov 29, 2017 11:15:38 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Nov 29, 2017 10:52:12 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I just am amazed at how many people here are worried about a tax cut for them and their family.
Please remember you can always write a check to the IRS and continue paying your fair share every year!

I'm not worried about tax cuts.

It's just that after a few years, now of having an extra $30/month, due to tax changes at the state level, I don't find that that amount of money has elevated our life in any way.

So. Tell me why I should extol the virtues of having an extra $400/year. How does this amount of money increase my status? How does it ensure that I climb up the socio-economic ladder from solid middle class to something closer to upper middle class? Or how will an extra $400 ensure that my family stays solid middle class?

We seem to have lost our phil script button...but running a simple savings calculator, if I save that $400, in 10 years I'll double my money...Why should I get excited over $800 in 10 years?  That seems rather insulting, actually.

So donate the tax savings to your favorite political organization!
They will be thrilled to take your $400!

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:15:38 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I'm not worried about tax cuts.

It's just that after a few years, now of having an extra $30/month, due to tax changes at the state level, I don't find that that amount of money has elevated our life in any way.

So. Tell me why I should extol the virtues of having an extra $400/year. How does this amount of money increase my status? How does it ensure that I climb up the socio-economic ladder from solid middle class to something closer to upper middle class? Or how will an extra $400 ensure that my family stays solid middle class?

We seem to have lost our phil script button...but running a simple savings calculator, if I save that $400, in 10 years I'll double my money...Why should I get excited over $800 in 10 years?  That seems rather insulting, actually.

So donate the tax savings to your favorite political organization!
They will be thrilled to take your $400!

So, you are asserting then, that I will stay solidly in the middle class or climb up the socioeconomic ladder by donating money to my favorite political organization?

That's a solution I hadn't thought of yet.

[Value Buy]

Nov 29, 2017 11:24:23 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

So donate the tax savings to your favorite political organization!
They will be thrilled to take your $400!

So, you are asserting then, that I will stay solidly in the middle class or climb up the socioeconomic ladder by donating money to my favorite political organization?

That's a solution I hadn't thought of yet.

That might be your assertion, but not mine.
If you are not happy with $400, so be it.
Myself, I will gladly take it. It was mine to begin with.

[bean29]

Nov 29, 2017 11:15:38 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Nov 29, 2017 10:52:12 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I just am amazed at how many people here are worried about a tax cut for them and their family.
Please remember you can always write a check to the IRS and continue paying your fair share every year!

I'm not worried about tax cuts.

It's just that after a few years, now of having an extra $30/month, due to tax changes at the state level, I don't find that that amount of money has elevated our life in any way.

So. Tell me why I should extol the virtues of having an extra $400/year. How does this amount of money increase my status? How does it ensure that I climb up the socio-economic ladder from solid middle class to something closer to upper middle class? Or how will an extra $400 ensure that my family stays solid middle class?

We seem to have lost our phil script button...but running a simple savings calculator, if I save that $400, in 10 years I'll double my money...Why should I get excited over $800 in 10 years?  That seems rather insulting, actually.

ETA: The rhetoric about any tax cut being good is just like when folks say "ANY JOB" created is just awesome. Yet, I don't see folks clamboring to quit their jobs that pay 70-100K+ to take newly created minimum wage jobs...because these are the fastest growing jobs in our state. Shoot. I don't even see our lawmakers quitting their jobs to work as CNAs or as cashiers at waterparks. I wonder why that is...if these sorts of low paying job opportunities are so great?

So, thank you..but I will not be grateful over brags that can be given in 20 second sound bites. I will critically think about what is happening around me, and decide for myself if it's a good thing or not.

I feel that too much financial responsibility has already been pushed off onto future generations.  Our Children will be the first generation to earn less than their parents, but the share of the national debt that they are expected to shoulder via their taxes will be greater than ever before.  It is just not fair, and this is the biggest reason I just feel we should ante up now and start paying down the national debt.

I was thinking about those tax cuts expiring over time, and for the most part they have pushed the expiration dates off to the next administration, so if the Democrat's don't extend them they will be blamed for raising the taxes on individuals, and the Republicans will keep the credit for reducing corporate taxes, all the while, they exploded the deficit and did not balance the budget.

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2017 11:27:53 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:24:23 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So, you are asserting then, that I will stay solidly in the middle class or climb up the socioeconomic ladder by donating money to my favorite political organization?

That's a solution I hadn't thought of yet.

That might be your assertion, but not mine.
If you are not happy with $400, so be it.
Myself, I will gladly take it. It was mine to begin with.

See, this is the problem. You've yet to say why the tax cuts are so good for the middle class. How my life will improve. How my family will be so much better off.

Just because a person CAN choose a course of action (in this case, passing tax cuts) doesn't mean they should. That's a lesson even my most highly stubborn 5 year old understands.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

We're in the group that will likely break even.  By the time it is supposed to "hurt" us we could have an entirely different president and Congress so I am not putting the cart before the horse.

The people that are going to be hurt are the rural communities that were counting on Trump repealing the ACA and replacing it with CHEAPER health care.  I've also read that as part of the tax reform a large farm subsidy is going to go bye bye.   Considering I live in a state where pigs outnumber people in some areas taking away that subsidy is going to have a huge impact.

I don't know enough about farm subsidies to be able to tell you if getting rid of it is overall a good or bad thing.   I can reasonably say that the people who voted for Trump were probably not voting in favor of their subsidies being cut.   I imagine they are going to be pretty upset when they realize that the Repubs are doing jack squat to "protect their way of life".

Personally as a person living in a metropolitan area, I don't feel sorry for them.  That's been a bone of contention between rural vs metro areas of the state for a long time.

But we're not the ones that came out in record numbers to vote for Trump thinking he would be our savior.   It's those people that Trump & Co should be worried about. I will be interested to see once the impact is felt if that swings Iowa back in the direction of being a blue state. 

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2017 11:30:59 GMT -5 bean29 said:

<abbr title="Nov 29, 2017 10:30:59 GMT -6" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1511973059000">Nov 29, 2017 10:30:59 GMT -6</abbr> bean29 said:

I feel that too much financial responsibility has already been pushed off onto future generations.  Our Children will be the first generation to earn less than their parents, but the share of the national debt that they are expected to shoulder via their taxes will be greater than ever before.  It is just not fair, and this is the biggest reason I just feel we should ante up now and start paying down the national debt.

DS and I had a nice chat about this last night.

Although...I personally think that those on SS and Medicare are going to get hit worse and soon than my kids..I think that's going to be one giant shitstorm that's coming much closer to fruition than anyone wants to talk about..

And I'm just guessing..here...but I'm betting that any gains the middle class sees, in terms of increase income...will be wiped out and then some when they have to shoulder the responsibility of taking care of elderly parents because SS has to be cut to the bone.

But..again, from what I've heard..old people tend to cost more than $100/month....

[happyhoix]

Nov 29, 2017 10:52:12 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I just am amazed at how many people here are worried about a tax cut for them and their family.
Please remember you can always write a check to the IRS and continue paying your fair share every year!

Have you seen the expected impact this proposed tax cut will have over the next ten years?

What DH and I will get isn't going to make a significant difference in our lifestyle.

It's the lower and middle income people who are really going to get the shaft. You know - the blue collar workers that voted for Trump because he promised everyone cheap health insurance and fabulous new jobs?

[happyhoix]

Nov 29, 2017 9:53:38 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It will be interesting to see if Iowa swings back to being a blue state.   Part of why Trump won big here is because the rural areas bought into his promises that he would provide better CHEAPER health care and protect their way of life.  Similar message to what he sent to the coal miners.

These areas will be the hardest hit by the new tax plan.

I don't know how it will go with our representatives and congressmen.   Several of them have been running unopposed for decades.   I don't care if it's Mickey Mouse running against them I just wish for SOMEONE anyone to run against them so we can get fresh blood.  We're going to end up like South Carolina and Strom Thurmond if we keep it up.

Poor coal miners got royally screwed.

Sold on 'clean coal' which doesn't exist, promised fabulous jobs working in the mine mining all that clean coal at a time when the entire energy industry is moving away from coal, plus the nice plum of having the ACA replaced with a 'fabulous new program that will provide the best insurance for cheap.'

Some of them might have hoped for jobs if Trump's much talked about (until he forgot about it) infrastructure improvement plan went through. Or get one of the great new jobs that would return to this country once Trump fixed all the trade agreements - until he forgot about that, too.

Now they might get a couple hundred bucks in tax cuts that will dry up with ten years.

I wonder if they can stand all the greatness overwhelming them.

 

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2017 11:31:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

We're in the group that will likely break even.  By the time it is supposed to "hurt" us we could have an entirely different president and Congress so I am not putting the cart before the horse.

The people that are going to be hurt are the rural communities that were counting on Trump repealing the ACA and replacing it with CHEAPER health care.  I've also read that as part of the tax reform a large farm subsidy is going to go bye bye.   Considering I live in a state where pigs outnumber people in some areas taking away that subsidy is going to have a huge impact.

I don't know enough about farm subsidies to be able to tell you if getting rid of it is overall a good or bad thing.   I can reasonably say that the people who voted for Trump were probably not voting in favor of their subsidies being cut.   I imagine they are going to be pretty upset when they realize that the Repubs are doing jack squat to "protect their way of life".

Personally as a person living in a metropolitan area, I don't feel sorry for them.  That's been a bone of contention between rural vs metro areas of the state for a long time.

But we're not the ones that came out in record numbers to vote for Trump thinking he would be our savior.   It's those people that Trump & Co should be worried about. I will be interested to see once the impact is felt if that swings Iowa back in the direction of being a blue state. 

I think we have it a little better, with our farmers. Some folks really do rely on workers with improper documentation...and they've been pretty upfront about it...and the worries of where we are going with the administration..

As it seems, farm hand type jobs are NOT fabulous jobs that most people fight each other for, even though, again, the mantra is any job is a GOOD job.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've also read they are gutting a major problem that provides public health services, education/retraining and job assistance in those areas.

I don't blame any of these people for voting for Trump and the repubs.   In a lot of these areas you can trace your profession back to your great great grandfather.  Leaving everything you have ever known is scary.

But it's going to come back and bite them in the ass big time.   People are remarkably short sighted when it comes to this stuff.  All those promises and soundbites are tempting when you can convince yourself it's other people that are the problem.  It's going to bite them in the ass when they realize they are the "others" as far as Republicans are concerned.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 29, 2017 11:48:45 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:31:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

We're in the group that will likely break even.  By the time it is supposed to "hurt" us we could have an entirely different president and Congress so I am not putting the cart before the horse.

The people that are going to be hurt are the rural communities that were counting on Trump repealing the ACA and replacing it with CHEAPER health care.  I've also read that as part of the tax reform a large farm subsidy is going to go bye bye.   Considering I live in a state where pigs outnumber people in some areas taking away that subsidy is going to have a huge impact.

I don't know enough about farm subsidies to be able to tell you if getting rid of it is overall a good or bad thing.   I can reasonably say that the people who voted for Trump were probably not voting in favor of their subsidies being cut.   I imagine they are going to be pretty upset when they realize that the Repubs are doing jack squat to "protect their way of life".

Personally as a person living in a metropolitan area, I don't feel sorry for them.  That's been a bone of contention between rural vs metro areas of the state for a long time.

But we're not the ones that came out in record numbers to vote for Trump thinking he would be our savior.   It's those people that Trump & Co should be worried about. I will be interested to see once the impact is felt if that swings Iowa back in the direction of being a blue state. 

I think we have it a little better, with our farmers. Some folks really do rely on workers with improper documentation...and they've been pretty upfront about it...and the worries of where we are going with the administration..

As it seems, farm hand type jobs are NOT fabulous jobs that most people fight each other for, even though, again, the mantra is any job is a GOOD job.

A lot of our farmers got slammed with the bird flu.  Then not too long ago there was a virus going around that killed all the pigs off.   Iowa depends quite heavily on corn and soybean subsidies too.   Those go away I imagine people will be pretty pissed off.

Big Agriculture is trying to come to the rescue so we'll see how it all shakes out.   If they fail I can imagine the next election might get interesting in Iowa.

[happyhoix]

Nov 29, 2017 11:52:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I've also read they are gutting a major problem that provides public health services, education/retraining and job assistance in those areas.

I don't blame any of these people for voting for Trump and the repubs.   In a lot of these areas you can trace your profession back to your great great grandfather.  Leaving everything you have ever known is scary.

But it's going to come back and bite them in the ass big time.   People are remarkably short sighted when it comes to this stuff.  All those promises and soundbites are tempting when you can convince yourself it's other people that are the problem.  It's going to bite them in the ass when they realize they are the "others" as far as Republicans are concerned.

From talking to my MIL and SIL, I think the voters that went for Trump put a lot of faith in the fact that he was not a politician, and I don't blame them for that.

They hoped that an outsider would be able to shake things up and make things work right. I think this, too, but Trump was not the right person to do that.

 

Trump is a salesman, used to 'creative hyperbole' to market his products. His voters unfortunately took him at his word because, as my MIL said, he was a successful millionaire  businessman so he has to be a person of integrity or no one would do business with him.  

Bless her heart. She's not cold and cynical like me. Or maybe she hasn't run into all the high level business jerks I've run into during my working life.

[thyme4change]

Nov 29, 2017 12:05:42 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:52:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I've also read they are gutting a major problem that provides public health services, education/retraining and job assistance in those areas.

I don't blame any of these people for voting for Trump and the repubs.   In a lot of these areas you can trace your profession back to your great great grandfather.  Leaving everything you have ever known is scary.

But it's going to come back and bite them in the ass big time.   People are remarkably short sighted when it comes to this stuff.  All those promises and soundbites are tempting when you can convince yourself it's other people that are the problem.  It's going to bite them in the ass when they realize they are the "others" as far as Republicans are concerned.

From talking to my MIL and SIL, I think the voters that went for Trump put a lot of faith in the fact that he was not a politician, and I don't blame them for that.

They hoped that an outsider would be able to shake things up and make things work right. I think this, too, but Trump was not the right person to do that.

 

Trump is a salesman, used to 'creative hyperbole' to market his products. His voters unfortunately took him at his word because, as my MIL said, he was a successful millionaire  businessman so he has to be a person of integrity or no one would do business with him.  

Bless her heart. She's not cold and cynical like me. Or maybe she hasn't run into all the high level business jerks I've run into during my working life.

I really wonder what type of person could shake up DC. It seems like an ant trying to move a continent. Too many people have a financial stake in what is going on. I suspect most outsiders don't even know the extent of it, much less have some sure fire way to stop it.

But Trump is definitely not the guy, because, despite his assurances otherwise, he is not a negotiator. He has no interest in negotiating.

[movingforward]

Nov 29, 2017 12:05:42 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Nov 29, 2017 11:52:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I've also read they are gutting a major problem that provides public health services, education/retraining and job assistance in those areas.

I don't blame any of these people for voting for Trump and the repubs.   In a lot of these areas you can trace your profession back to your great great grandfather.  Leaving everything you have ever known is scary.

But it's going to come back and bite them in the ass big time.   People are remarkably short sighted when it comes to this stuff.  All those promises and soundbites are tempting when you can convince yourself it's other people that are the problem.  It's going to bite them in the ass when they realize they are the "others" as far as Republicans are concerned.

From talking to my MIL and SIL, I think the voters that went for Trump put a lot of faith in the fact that he was not a politician, and I don't blame them for that.

They hoped that an outsider would be able to shake things up and make things work right. I think this, too, but Trump was not the right person to do that.

 

Trump is a salesman, used to 'creative hyperbole' to market his products. His voters unfortunately took him at his word because, as my MIL said, he was a successful millionaire  businessman so he has to be a person of integrity or no one would do business with him.  

Bless her heart. She's not cold and cynical like me. Or maybe she hasn't run into all the high level business jerks I've run into during my working life.

OMG! She must know absolutely zero about business.

[happyhoix]

Nov 29, 2017 15:51:20 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Nov 29, 2017 12:05:42 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

From talking to my MIL and SIL, I think the voters that went for Trump put a lot of faith in the fact that he was not a politician, and I don't blame them for that.

They hoped that an outsider would be able to shake things up and make things work right. I think this, too, but Trump was not the right person to do that.

 

Trump is a salesman, used to 'creative hyperbole' to market his products. His voters unfortunately took him at his word because, as my MIL said, he was a successful millionaire  businessman so he has to be a person of integrity or no one would do business with him.  

Bless her heart. She's not cold and cynical like me. Or maybe she hasn't run into all the high level business jerks I've run into during my working life.

OMG! She must know absolutely zero about business.

Her dad was a very fine, upstanding businessman who was meticulous with his accounting down to the penny, and a very proper and devout man. MIL thinks that all successful businessmen must be like her dad, or they wouldn't be successful. I wish that was the case!!

She has stated she's been disappointed in his 'bathroom mouth'. Aren't we all.

[dondub]

  A win for Trump, the 1%ers and the poor corporations that have $3trillion stashed overseas and record profits under Obama.

 We the People...not so much.

[Deleted]

It isn’t about individuals. They are going to crash the fucking system. We won’t come back from a third depression.

[Phoenix84]

Nov 29, 2017 9:43:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

It'll be great.

By 2020, when the Donald and all his wealthy buddies have grown even fatter, and the 'trickle down effect' has once again failed to trickle down to the middle and lower classes, and the GOP has managed to defund the ACA so people who had insurance don't anymore, the GOP will be sitting on the sidelines wondering what the hell happened.

Wouldn't be surprised if a full blown socialist gets elected. Not the direction I want our country to go in, but as the income inequality gap keeps expanding exponentially, there's going to be a flashpoint, and it won't be pretty.

Not that the 1% will care. They'll buy their own islands and hire their own minions, and Trump will be right there with them, if he isn't in jail.

I think it's likely that a socialist will get elected in 2020 or 2024.  There's been a long standing tit for tat going to one extreme or the other in the last few election cycles.  Bush was followed by Obama, the most hard leftist to occupy the office since Roosevelt himself.  Now we have Trump, and I think that democrats will overcorrect and nominate a hard leftist in the 2020/2024 races.  I think it's entirely possible the democrats will nominate a socialist for the presidential race in 2020 and end up losing to Trump again because most Americans will find it unacceptable to have a socialist as president.  But maybe by 2024 it'll happen.   

Regarding the tax bill, I think it'll pass.  As for what affect it will have for the GOP, it's hard to say.  While the polls show public opposition, I think polls are massaged to make a political point.  There just hasn't been the groundswell of anger and public outcry there as there was over the potential ACA repeal.  So I don't think this bill will be the tipping point between the republicans winning or losing 2018 or 2020.  We're due for a correction either way in congress in 2018, republicans need to capitalize on their majority and pass what they can while they have full control. 

I think the republicans are just correctly assessing that they stand to lose more by doing nothing with their majority than passing legislation that may be unpopular but not that unpopular.  They'll then have the rest of 2018 to pass something more popular like infrastructure spending heading into the mid terms.   

[Phoenix84]

I think it's a good bill.

Poor people don't pay taxes, rich people pay taxes, so it makes sense that any tax cuts would affect the rich for the most part.

It's a misnomer that poor people lose money under this bill.  It simply eliminates the individual mandate, giving poor people the choice not to carry health insurance.  This means that they may CHOOSE not to get medicaide and obamacare subsidies for health insurance that they may otherwise qualify for.  So they really haven't lost any money, just benefits they elected not to take.  This is fine in my book as no one should be forced to buy something just because they exist.  Of all the Obamacare provisions, this is the one that I most viehamately disagree with.

[NastyWoman]

What are the other wins referred to in the title pray tell? Like it or not, that same title excludes winning the election

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 29, 2017 16:43:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think it's a good bill.

Poor people don't pay taxes, rich people pay taxes, so it makes sense that any tax cuts would affect the rich for the most part.

It's a misnomer that poor people lose money under this bill.  It simply eliminates the individual mandate, giving poor people the choice not to carry health insurance.  This means that they may CHOOSE not to get medicaide and obamacare subsidies for health insurance that they may otherwise qualify for.  So they really haven't lost any money, just benefits they elected not to take.  This is fine in my book as no one should be forced to buy something just because they exist.  Of all the Obamacare provisions, this is the one that I most viehamately disagree with.

I agree about the mandate part but that's not, at least around here, what people voted for.   They voted for the promise that Trump & Co would provide BETTER CHEAPER health care in place of the ACA.

There is also the fact they plan on gutting several programs that boost medicaid and other public health programs, especially in some of the heavily poverty stricken areas like Appalachia which just so happen to be where the majority of coal miners live.

For you and me the mandate disappearing is a non-issue.  The people who think this is going to lead them to "better cheaper health care" or depend on the programs they plan to cut this is going to be a heck of a blow.

I don't know if it would be enough to piss them off into voting against Trump & Co but I think it's possible.  I suppose it will come down to how much people want a "win" bad enough that they will overlook the price they pay for said win.