Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 2, 2017 16:27:36 GMT -5
Ted Kennedy's Soviet GambitLet's put Ted Kennedy on trial like Pope Formosus was put on trial.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 2, 2017 16:31:49 GMT -5
Ted Kennedy's Soviet GambitLet's put Ted Kennedy on trial like Pope Formosus was put on trial. If we're going to do it, we need to do it for Chappaquiddick.
What did he get for that? Leaving the scene of a crash?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 2, 2017 16:34:34 GMT -5
Let's put Ted Kennedy on trial like Pope Formosus was put on trial. If we're going to do it, we need to do it for Chappaquiddick.
What did he get for that? Leaving the scene of a crash?
We can dig up Mary Jo Kopechne and put her on the stand.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 2, 2017 16:38:37 GMT -5
Read an interesting speculation wayyy back in the day that Ted had gotten out of the car before the bridge as he was drunk and saw a local sheriff's car and had a young woman with him. There goes any presidential chance. Mary Jo didn't adjust the seat and couldn't rapidly reach the brake pedals to stop the car as it approached the narrow bridge.
Some of this, as I remember, was based on the implausibility of Ted's swim considering his back issue.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 2, 2017 16:53:40 GMT -5
Ted Kennedy's Soviet GambitLet's put Ted Kennedy on trial like Pope Formosus was put on trial. you keep forgetting, Ted Kennedy is the source of all evil, and Trump is a honorable man taking a pay cut to do a difficult job. please try to get that straight before you post again.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 2, 2017 18:20:35 GMT -5
Let's put Ted Kennedy on trial like Pope Formosus was put on trial. you keep forgetting, Ted Kennedy is the source of all evil, and Trump is a honorable man taking a pay cut to do a difficult job. please try to get that straight before you post again. Is it opposite day again? (Not sure about Ted, but the source of all evil? Personally I think if there is to be an anti-Christ in my lifetime, I could make a great argument it might be Trump.)
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 2, 2017 18:54:00 GMT -5
I thought the Cold War was all about Russia being a hostile foreign government? The Cold War that ended in the late 80's, early 90's with the fall of the USSR? I admit US/Russian relations haven't been peachy since then, but there's a difference between "not peachy" and "hostile". And if Russia is so hostile, why is every American politician and their dog knee-deep in business dealings, foundation partnerships, and diplomatic connections with Russia? Russia became "hostile" when this collusion scandal became an election issue. Prior to that, both sides of the political aisle were more than happy to deal with Russia like bosom buddies? Do you deny this is what the evidence thus far tells us? I don't think we ever got to a position of neutrality with Russia, so its not that they became a hostile government, its that we've seen them that way since the Cold War.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 2, 2017 18:54:45 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 2, 2017 19:03:11 GMT -5
I know there were folks who thought Obama was the anti-Christ and there were also Nostradamus prophecies folks thought were coming true. I think its more likely the anti-Christ would appear to be acceptable to Christians, and that's where IMO the problems would begin. Which is why I never believed Obama could be the anti-Christ, but Trump acts anti-Christian yet swaths of Christians follow him. Makes a much better anti-Christ than Obama ever would.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 2, 2017 19:05:45 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 2, 2017 19:44:27 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 2, 2017 21:56:35 GMT -5
Uranium One deal.... Uranium will never leave our country. Uranium was allowed to go by truck to Canada for peaceful purposes allowed by the W.H. Uranium was shipped to Europe and Asia, for......peaceful purposes..... No one is allowed to say to who in Europe or Asia. It is a secret. No one can say it is still in Europe or Asia at this time, or what country it went to from there...... No problem people. Be happy. Does anyone think a special prosecutor might be needed here..........
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 2, 2017 22:32:09 GMT -5
The Cold War that ended in the late 80's, early 90's with the fall of the USSR? I admit US/Russian relations haven't been peachy since then, but there's a difference between "not peachy" and "hostile". And if Russia is so hostile, why is every American politician and their dog knee-deep in business dealings, foundation partnerships, and diplomatic connections with Russia? Russia became "hostile" when this collusion scandal became an election issue. Prior to that, both sides of the political aisle were more than happy to deal with Russia like bosom buddies?Do you deny this is what the evidence thus far tells us? I won't speak for Swamp, but yes, I would deny that.
Putin hates HRC. We've been piling sanctions on them for a while now, partly thanks to HRC.
The question of why Putin wanted Trump elected might either be because he truly hates HRC or, on the other hand, he has some blackmail material on Trump and knew he would manipulate him behind the scenes (e.g., the infamous dossier).. Or - just to screw with us for fun. Of course he hates Ms. Clinton. She knew about the CIA rat lines running weapons into Turkey and Syria. She set the stage for Sevastopol. She was partly responsible for the Arab Spring that sent the Middle East to pot, and the arming of Syrian insurgents started under her tenure as SoS. She rattled her saber throughout her campaign. She was unabashedly pro-Ukraine during the war in Crimea. He fully expected her to claim the presidency, round up Sen. McCain, her proxies in the CFR, and her legions of Pentagon/DoD backers, and continue to support the American hegemony by any means necessary. I don't blame him for being afraid. It's a mistake to assume Pres. Putin's fear meant a rampaging US War Machine would be good for America and the world. He feared Ms. Clinton the way a man with a loaded gun fears the armed robber persistently trying to break into his home: "If you don't stop, one of us is going to end up dead, and I'm going to do my damndest to make sure it isn't me." I don't think most Americans realized how close the two nations--America and Russia--came to starting WWIII in Syria.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 2, 2017 22:37:20 GMT -5
Tell you what, if you can provide me with proof that the Grand Duc of Luxembourg, a country who has been our ally since it started getting invaded by Germans, and one of the most business minded countries in the world, routinely sets up fake Facebook accounts to troll Americans into voting for a particular candidate because he is a whimsical prankster who loves a good joke but is still, really and truly, our best pal, I'll concede that possibly Russia is just funnin' us and doesn't real mean to subvert our election system. It was a $100,000 campaign. Ten men and a dog in some obscure Moscow spy bureau impact testing psy-ops with their $200,000-per-year operating budget. Maintain some perspective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 6:07:55 GMT -5
You listening to Fox and Breibart again? You want to investigate CFIUS?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 6:25:28 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 3, 2017 6:54:37 GMT -5
Tell you what, if you can provide me with proof that the Grand Duc of Luxembourg, a country who has been our ally since it started getting invaded by Germans, and one of the most business minded countries in the world, routinely sets up fake Facebook accounts to troll Americans into voting for a particular candidate because he is a whimsical prankster who loves a good joke but is still, really and truly, our best pal, I'll concede that possibly Russia is just funnin' us and doesn't real mean to subvert our election system. It was a $100,000 campaign. Ten men and a dog in some obscure Moscow spy bureau impact testing psy-ops with their $200,000-per-year operating budget. Maintain some perspective. Ok, so your argument is if a hostile foreign government spends less than $250,000 on attempting to subvert our democratic electoral process, we should just shrug and laugh that off as too minor to worry about?
Personally, ANY attempts by a foreign government to influence the outcome of an election in another democratically elected government should be considered an act of aggression. (And yes, I realize that the US has attempting to influence the outcomes of elections in other countries, too - and it's just as wrong when we do it, so don't get on your high horse).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 6:58:14 GMT -5
Trump won by less than 80k votes. 11k in Michigan. 22k in Wisconsin... specifically targeted.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 3, 2017 7:25:00 GMT -5
Trump is supposedly blaming Kushner for the whole Mueller thing.
www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/president-trump-blames-son-in-law-jared-kushner-mueller-probe-article-1.3604438
I kind of feel bad for Kushner, though - he had zero experience as a political advisor to the POTUS. He should have been allowed to help run his family business and stay in the background, like most presidential family members do, but because Trump is paranoid as hell, he wanted him to be his right hand man and assigned him undoable tasks like 'solve the mid east peace problem.'
Of course, Kusher agreed to do the job. He didn't have to. He must have realized how underqualified he was for the task at hand.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 3, 2017 7:58:04 GMT -5
specify which aspects of this thread you find most hopeful, and so that we can "methink" you, too. The enduring-yet-premature hope that indictments against Manafort et al. will reach all the way to Pres. Trump himself. I understand hope and faith, but I also understood Paul's yearning for Mitt Romney to win the 2012 US election. Consider this a forewarning from an objective third party with no skin in the game and no preference on whether charges are filed or not. I agree.
It's not a foregone conclusion that the charges brought thus far will eventually lead to charges of Trum and his inner circle, like many who are against Trump here and in the media may believe. I'm not saying it won't necessarily, but it's premature to say it's definitive.
An investigation leads where the investigation leads. And sometimes tax evasion and failure to register as a foreign agent is just that.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 3, 2017 8:11:52 GMT -5
The enduring-yet-premature hope that indictments against Manafort et al. will reach all the way to Pres. Trump himself. I understand hope and faith, but I also understood Paul's yearning for Mitt Romney to win the 2012 US election. Consider this a forewarning from an objective third party with no skin in the game and no preference on whether charges are filed or not. I doubt anything will go all the way to Trump, and even if there was clear cut evidence of collusion, a GOP congress will not impeach him.
I'm hoping this will derail his agenda. He was already doing a pretty good job of that himself, with his infighting amongst the GOP members of Congress and his inability to ignore the smallest insult from war widows and NFL players, but if he gets consumed with what Mueller is doing, he won't have time to try to lobby for any of his pet projects. His voters were willing to put up with his crudeness and self congratulatory talk when they thought he could actually make changes that would benefit them, but when he proves to be nothing more than a rude big mouth, he's poison to the GOP in 2018 and toast in 2020. (IF he even runs again - I've seen two different reports from two different people who claim he won't run again in 2020).
Bannon is lobbying Trump to slam back at Mueller, and I hope that Trump once again takes his bad advice and attempts to fire Mueller, because that will backfire spectacularly and put a wooden stake in the heart of the Dark Lord Bannon. Bannon fancies himself as a political guru, the guy who got Trump elected, but if he does convince Trump to move against Mueller, that should finally expose him for what he really is, and he can shrink back into the black hole he sprang from.
And my final hope is that Trump, who has made his living for the last 10 years by selling the Trump name, ends up with such a sullied reputation that he not only can't make the usually big bucks going on speaking tours (as most ex-Presidents do) but ends up losing all his golf clubs and half all his other assets to Melania, who will finally get fed up with his sexist behavior, and he has to go back to selling overpriced steaks, while his kids have to get real jobs in the real world.
Actually, this is my final hope - the GOP sheds all this anti-immigrant, anti-gay, pro-evangelical Christian crap and produces a great fiscally conservative, social liberal candidate that no one will have any qualms voting for. (Well, no one but the anti-gays, anti-immigrant Christian fundamentalists and far left libs).
I think Trump losing his fortune is a bit ambitious in the hope department, but I agree that it's very unlikely he's going to be impeached, even if he did do something illegal. Remember Bill Clinton committed the crime of perjury and was still not impeached, so even if Trump did an illegal act, it's still no guarantee congress will impeach him.
The more likely scenario will play out as you described, especially if more charges happen that are closer to Trump. The investigation derails his agenda and he ends up not getting anything done and he either loses or decides not to run in 2020.
But I think the tax reform is going to pass, despite the investigation and charges against Manfort. I think the GOP congress is finally waking up to the fact that they have to do something prove to their base that they should vote for them in 2018.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 3, 2017 8:24:02 GMT -5
What conspiracy theory? Multiple people have admitted wanting to get dirt from the Russians... Russians attempting contacts with the campaign that were welcomed... As has been repeated, it’s the lying, cover up, perjury, obstruction... etc that would be the most likely issue. Well, obviously the meetings we know about thus far don't constitute collusion or conspiracy or the relevant parties would have been charged by now. Otherwise why would an investigation be necessary?
Either the meetings known thus far are not illegal or they aren't sufficient evidence to prove anything.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 3, 2017 8:39:42 GMT -5
Why "obviously"? As an investigator, I don't stop at the first illegal thing I see and say "OK, charge it up, nothing more to see here!" I keep investigating so that when I do file charges, I know they will stick (also so I have a better idea of the defenses that will be raised).
ETA - my experience is with white-collar prosecution where there is generally no public safety risk requiring arrest or detainment. The wheels can sometimes move very slowly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 8:41:26 GMT -5
Who the fuck said it was a foregone conclusion?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 8:42:51 GMT -5
mid, haven’t we already established that your lady parts don’t know as much law as you think they do?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 8:43:42 GMT -5
This bill is not tax reform.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 3, 2017 8:51:26 GMT -5
... Remember Bill Clinton committed the crime of perjury and was still not impeached, ... FWIW, I remember that he was impeached by the House. He was not removed from office by the Senate.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 3, 2017 9:00:41 GMT -5
... I think the GOP congress is finally waking up to the fact that they have to do something prove to their base that they should vote for them in 2018. ... As my Father sarcastically says, "Hurry up and do something, even if it is wrong." Pass the tax bill now, election next November, see the real impact of the bill the next year.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Nov 3, 2017 9:11:02 GMT -5
Anyone watch the Putin's revenge Frontline? Yes, I did.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Nov 3, 2017 9:38:44 GMT -5
You have to be kidding!!! The Russians,, The Russians,, The Russian did this, Th Russian did that,,,,
No they didn't!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,We have done to ourselves!! The Republican Party is in shreds, Infighting here and there!
The Democratic party is in shreds, Infighting here and there!
So what do We do, We point our fingers at each other,,,,,, " you are so stupid" and We reply back,,,,,, " You are so stupid"!!!!!! In reality all we do is ignore what is wrong with all of us!
I have seen the enemy and it is us!!!!!!!!!!
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