Time to start thinking about college

[milee]

Sounds like everybody had great results!  Annie7, that is fantastic that your son is going to Duke.  And tractor, it's awesome that your son is getting a bargain at a school he loves.  

Life is good.  

[Deleted]

I brought this thread back because DS is registering for the ACT tonight and while I've got the FAFSA/Financial Aid stuff down (I think), I don't really know a whole lot about the application process when going for early admission.  When I went to college, I stopped at the university in town and filled out an application, drove the 4 blocks to the HS to get my transcript and then took the test at the university on the day they told me to be there.  This was like a month or two before classes started...not 2 years before with not knowing what school I was going to. 

Anyhow, two questions for now.  Should he take the writing test?  It's an extra hour and an extra $20 or so.  He HATES essay tests so if I ask him he'll want to skip it.

Also, they send to 4 schools with the $50 fee.  His list of "possibles" isn't super long, but definitely more than 4.   There's a couple reach schools in there, a private that he won't go to unless they give uber aid, a couple solid out of town choices that offer what he wants, and then the two universities in town that don't offer quite what he wants, but way cheaper to attend.  So, maybe 6 or 7?  Does it really matter if some are left out?  Do we just pay more later?  Do the schools accept and keep scores for over a year from unknowns before an application shows up? 

[milee]

Some colleges want to see the writing test and some don't.  Take a look at the admissions pages for the colleges he's interested in to see if they want it before you decide if he needs to take it.

If your son is a really good test taker and you think he'll knock it out of the park on his first try, then yes - take the plunge and send scores to 4 schools since it's free to do that.  But... if you're not totally sure he'll get a great score, then the lower risk way to do it is to not send scores to any schools until he gets scores you know he wants to send.  Yes, that costs a little more since sending them later won't be included in that registration fee, but it's a nice way to not let colleges know right away if he flubs it.  Also, it may not cost as much more later as you think since some colleges are starting to move to the honor system to be respectful of student costs.  Applicants self report their scores and only if they're admitted and choose to attend do they have to pay the fee to have the official scores sent to the colleges.

[milee]

Another thought, in the past many people thought it was helpful to have students take the ACT as a "baseline" without practice, just to see how they did and get an idea what to study for in future retakes.  Be a little careful with this, since ACT is getting pretty aggressive about using analytics to invalidate scores that increase too much.  IOW, if a kid goes in to take the ACT with no prep just as a baseline and gets a 22, then uses the results to really study and gets a 29 the next time he tests the ACT is likely to flag that as cheating and invalidate the test unless the student retakes again or offers proof of how he improved (tough to do and most people aren't successful at this proof.)  A guess is that any increase of 5 points or more trips the inquiry, but that could be subject to change and is based only on anecdotes.

So if you think your son isn't at least a little ready, don't have him take the formal test yet so he isn't flagged for cheating later when he studies and does much better.

Also, ACT vs SAT is a bit of a midwest vs. rest of the country thing.  Most colleges take either, so if he doesn't rock the ACT see if he's better at the SAT.  ACT is heavily time dependent so quick thinkers do well on it and more methodical kids can struggle.  Have him take some practice tests online to see if he's better at one than the other.

[Deleted]

I guarantee he will not study for the test.   Our school pushes taking it 3 times.  Fall of Jr year, Spring of Jr year and Fall of Sr year, stating that the schools take the highest score so you should at least try to up it.

[milee]

"stating that the schools take the highest score"

Some do.  Some don't.  Worth checking on the admissions page of the colleges he's interested in.  

[shanendoah]

Does your school offer the PSAT? I took it as a junior (had to for National Merit scholarship eligibility), and it really helped me understand what the SAT and the ACT would be like for testing environment.
I did better on my ACT than on my SAT - my SAT did not qualify me for a full ride academic scholarship at the local U, but my ACT score did. In that case, the school did take the higher of the two.
But I also only took each test once, and both at the end of my junior year.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 11:24:48 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Does your school offer the PSAT? I took it as a junior (had to for National Merit scholarship eligibility), and it really helped me understand what the SAT and the ACT would be like for testing environment.
I did better on my ACT than on my SAT - my SAT did not qualify me for a full ride academic scholarship at the local U, but my ACT score did. In that case, the school did take the higher of the two.
But I also only took each test once, and both at the end of my junior year.

Yes.  He took the PSAT as a Freshman and a Sophomore and will take it again this October.  He actually did a lot better on it Freshman year.  Hopefully that trend doesn't continue.

I looked online at 4 of the schools he's interested in and they all say they take the highest composite score.  A few sites I'm reading say if you're going to take it multiple times to wait to send the first score before you see it, but it also says that any later tests submitted contain a test history so the schools know all the results anyhow.

It sounds like U of M lets you self report and send official scores after admission. 

ACT and SAT information for freshman admission

A complete application to the University of Minnesota Twin Cities requires a test score from either the ACT or SAT, which you will be able to either enter yourself as part of your Self-Reported Academic Record, or have sent directly from the testing agency. Please note, all applicants who are admitted must have their official test scores sent directly from the testing agency as part of the final confirmation process.

Each exam offers an optional writing exam, which we recommend that students take. The writing test results are considered as a secondary factor. Admission decisions are based on an overall assessment of the primary and secondary review factors.

Both ACT and SAT will send your scores free of charge to the first four schools you list when you register for the test. We will always consider the best composite score (from a single test) you submit, so we strongly encourage you to list the U of M as one of the schools to receive your official score each time you sit for an ACT or SAT exam.

[milee]

"we recommend"

This is another subject of a lot of speculation.  Most college counselors say that "recommended" = required for all applicants except those who are really poor and who don't have college educated parents.  IOW, if an applicant is from a middle class or higher background and at least one of the parents has a 4 year college degree, the colleges expect them to have the recommended items.  They'll give a pass to poor applicants who might not be able to afford the fees or to applicants whose parents didn't go to US college so might not have known about requirements in advance.

[Deleted]

Ugh.  I found an up to date list of all schools that either require or recommend the written portion, and only one school (U of M) is on his list of possible schools. 

blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-which-colleges-require-act-writing-all-schools

I wonder if taking the written test once is sufficient or if you have to take it with every attempt at the ACT? 

[Regis]

We had all of our kids take the ACT once and the SAT once.  Based on ACT/SAT Concordance we looked to see which one they did best on and took it again.  Just familiarity with the format of the test allowed each of them to increase their score the second time around.  

Also, check out the schools he's looking at and their early admission deadlines.  Taking a test in the fall of his senior year may be too late.

[bookkeeper]

If your son is a high scoring ACT test taker, it can make sense to report the score to the universities of his choice the first time taking it.

Our son scored a 30 his first try as a high school junior.  He was later invited to the university for "Distinguished Scholars Day".  This was basically a recruiting day for high achieving students.  Took the test again two months later and raised his score 3 points.  Because he was already on the watch list for the university, he was offered a full tuition scholarship as soon as his score exceeded their standard.

He got the letter in the mail a few days after school started for the senior year.  We all did the happy dance for a week!

The sooner the universities knew who is interested in coming, the more financial aid there was in the hopper to spread around.  The ACT gives the universities that information.  

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 13:25:46 GMT -5 Regis said:

Also, check out the schools he's looking at and their early admission deadlines.  Taking a test in the fall of his senior year may be too late.

Oh wonderful.  More complications.   Although, he would still have had two tests prior to that if we go ahead as planned with the October and February (or June) plan. 

I looked at the schools.  four have rolling admission, one is November 1st and two are December 1st.

[Regis]

Sept 25, 2018 14:53:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 25, 2018 13:25:46 GMT -5 Regis said:

Also, check out the schools he's looking at and their early admission deadlines.  Taking a test in the fall of his senior year may be too late.

Oh wonderful.  More complications.   Although, he would still have had two tests prior to that if we go ahead as planned with the October and February (or June) plan. 

I looked at the schools.  four have rolling admission, one is November 1st and two are December 1st.

You had mentioned early admission previously.  That's different than rolling admission and very different than early decision.  Just make sure you understand all three as you go through the process.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 17:34:18 GMT -5 Regis said:

Sept 25, 2018 14:53:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oh wonderful.  More complications.   Although, he would still have had two tests prior to that if we go ahead as planned with the October and February (or June) plan. 

I looked at the schools.  four have rolling admission, one is November 1st and two are December 1st.

You had mentioned early admission previously.  That's different than rolling admission and very different than early decision.  Just make sure you understand all three as you go through the process.

Yeah...I don't.  I get rolling admission, but what is the difference between early admission and early decision? 

[giramomma]

Sept 25, 2018 19:21:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 25, 2018 17:34:18 GMT -5 Regis said:

You had mentioned early admission previously.  That's different than rolling admission and very different than early decision.  Just make sure you understand all three as you go through the process.

Yeah...I don't.  I get rolling admission, but what is the difference between early admission and early decision? 

I found this

professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/applications/early

Not all universities run the same.

Madison does early action.

Most kids around here are moving to early applications..One of my families...all their kids spend the summer before senior year writing essays and what not. But, they are also applying to 9 schools. Normally, they are done applying for college by Oct of their senior year.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 19:30:40 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 25, 2018 19:21:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Yeah...I don't.  I get rolling admission, but what is the difference between early admission and early decision? 

I found this

professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/applications/early

Not all universities run the same.

Madison does early action.

Most kids around here are moving to early applications..One of my families...all their kids spend the summer before senior year writing essays and what not. But, they are also applying to 9 schools. Normally, they are done applying for college by Oct of their senior year.

I had zero knowledge of early decision.  I checked the list of all schools in the US that use that and none DS would be applying to are on it.  Thankfully.  I don't like the idea of being bound to one that early.  

Apparently DS registered for the ACT already and put on there to take the essay, so that decision is made.  I don't think we can change it now.  Also, I hope he follows directions better when taking the test because I looked at his entry ticket and it had him as a female that graduated HS in 1987.  

[countrygirl2]

Wow, what a difference.  I went to a state school.  I went up and took my SAT, got the score that said I was admitted.  I have the score booklet around somewhere.  Don't remember what it was now, but I didn't get high enough to get a scholarship, but I did well I do remember that.  Way more complicated now for sure.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 21:39:23 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Wow, what a difference.  I went to a state school.  I went up and took my SAT, got the score that said I was admitted.  I have the score booklet around somewhere.  Don't remember what it was now, but I didn't get high enough to get a scholarship, but I did well I do remember that.  Way more complicated now for sure.

Me too.  Some schools are still like that.  If he decides to stay home, he could go to the local state school without much hassle, but a couple that he is interested in are more selective.  Our main reason for testing several times is financial aid though.  A few points on the ACT can make a big difference there. 

[giramomma]

Sept 25, 2018 21:28:28 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apparently DS registered for the ACT already and put on there to take the essay, so that decision is made.  I don't think we can change it now.  Also, I hope he follows directions better when taking the test because I looked at his entry ticket and it had him as a female that graduated HS in 1987.  

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 22:29:53 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 25, 2018 21:28:28 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apparently DS registered for the ACT already and put on there to take the essay, so that decision is made.  I don't think we can change it now.  Also, I hope he follows directions better when taking the test because I looked at his entry ticket and it had him as a female that graduated HS in 1987.  

So worried this kid is going to be in my basement for the next 20 years!  

[debthaven]

I only know about Early Admission and Early Decision.

Early decision means you are COMMITTED to going there. If your son signs up for ED, you CANNOT change your mind later, or you will have to pay (how much, I don't know).

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 21:39:23 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Wow, what a difference.  I went to a state school.  I went up and took my SAT, got the score that said I was admitted.  I have the score booklet around somewhere.  Don't remember what it was now, but I didn't get high enough to get a scholarship, but I did well I do remember that.  Way more complicated now for sure.

This is how our state schools still work.  DD is a Junior and we are nowhere near as prepared as minnesotapaintlady's son.  She has no idea what she wants to do or where she wants to go.  She is taking the PSAT's in 10 days and then will take the SAT's in the spring and the ACT's whenever they are scheduled.  

[alabamagal]

Well it doesn’t HAVE to be that complicated. Taking the PSAT will give you an idea of what is possible. You should see some improvement number wise, but likely will see about the same % ranking unless the kid totally slept through the PSAT.

It is also ok not to know what you want to do in life. I didn’t want to do engineering until after my first year of college. My very successful DS didn’t decide to be an actuary until after his first year of college We both knew we would do something in science or math so just started out working on that.

PSAT scores can also help direct you toward science/math or to liberal arts depending on your scores in each one.

[milee]

Dropped DS off at school last weekend.  He seemed ready to roll.  Hardly heard from him at all that first week - total of two texts.  I was complaining to my friends that maybe we should send out a search party.  My friends assured me that it was a good sign that he wasn't moping or clinging and that it meant he was busy and active on campus.  Then, at 4 AM (early Saturday morning) my phone started ringing...

He's fine.  But even in those two seconds it took to fumble the phone on and say "hello?" my mind was coming up with all sorts of horrible scenarios.  When he started talking (he's alive!) and sounded pretty normal, it was a relief.  Turns out he had gotten a respiratory infection a few days ago and that night it was triggering his asthma.  He didn't pack his asthma meds and wanted to know if he should go to the ER.  Ugh.  Breathing is important, but his college is in the bad part of town and the closest ER is a Level 1 trauma center that serves those neighborhoods with the crazy gun violence national news keeps showing.  So not only did he actually have to get there, but then he'd be sitting alone in that ER late on a Friday night during a full moon - probably not going to be a fun or comforting experience.  So we went through figuring out how severe it was - blue lips?  wheezing?  what?  and during the 20 minutes of talking to him, he was talking fine and at a normal volume/speed and he didn't have any symptoms, so I asked if he thought he'd be OK until morning when he could just go to an Urgent Care.  From his description, I think he was actually having more anxiety about possibly having an asthma attack than actually having one; added to his worry about being in a bad part of town in the middle of the night and he was just a little freaked out. 

So, he was fine and I guess it was good to hear from him even if it was in the middle of the night.  Sigh.  So I was settling in and trying to fall back asleep when the younger son appeared, smiling.  "Mom, we're both up; this would be a great time to get Midnight Pancakes!"  (He loves stories of how in college we'd eat pancakes in the middle of the night, I have omitted the factoid that his was usually after a night of drinking... and he's always been fascinated with eating midnight pancakes but he falls asleep too quickly to ever try it.)  So we went and ate pancakes at IHOP.  It was fun.  But I've been dragging ever since then. 

Boys.  Sigh.  

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2018 12:14:25 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Ugh.  I found an up to date list of all schools that either require or recommend the written portion, and only one school (U of M) is on his list of possible schools. 

blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-which-colleges-require-act-writing-all-schools

I wonder if taking the written test once is sufficient or if you have to take it with every attempt at the ACT? 

This may be outdated info, but it used to be that your essay score didn't change.  Check that, though.

There is a pre-ACT test.  We are giving it Tuesday along with the Workkeys.  It used to be called PACT, sort of like the PSAT.  

There are two important range of scores.  One range gets you admitted.  That is around a 24 for Auburn/Alabama.  The other range gets you the good scholarships.  Find out the ranges, which vary by school.  If you can get in but aren't within a few points of the scholarship range, don't waste your money on retests.

[Deleted]

Well, DS is bummed.  He got a 28 on his ACT and totally bombed the writing part with a 7 which pulled his English score down.  Good enough score for any of our state schools...except the ONE FREAKING school he wants to go to.   Now lets see if he cares enough to actually do something about it.  

[oped]

Don't worry so much. Really. Schools look at cumulative stuff. I know he wants to get into a specific school/program, but really, instead of worrying about the score i'd have him spend time on his eagle project or some community service thing, do a college level class, and write a kick ass essay... things that will make him stand out that are not just a number. 

And you can always use a gap year to position yourself if needed. Son did and daughter probably will ?  Transfering into the school he really wants could work if he doesn't get in immediately. 

Just an example. the school we just looked at with daughter requires a 2 on a specific test as a minimum. and we talked to at least two students at open house who were admitted with a 1 and 1.5... be the person they want to have... regardless of the writing score.  Also again... NAIL the essay. Maybe send an extra essay. That means a lot more than one 5 paragraph in a timed, handwritten environment. 

[Deleted]

Yeah, I know it's not everything and he's going to retake it at least once anyhow. It's just kind of disheartening when the middle 50 percentile of incoming freshman is 31-34. 28 is pretty far to the left in that lower 25%. Definite reach. I don't really care one way or another about that particular school...it cost a lot more anyhow.  I'm just afraid he's going to give up entirely instead of trying harder because that's the only place he really wants to go. I think he was expecting to just blow it out of the park and now he's doubting he's good enough. 

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2018 21:41:14 GMT -5 oped said:

Also again... NAIL the essay. Maybe send an extra essay. That means a lot more than one 5 paragraph in a timed, handwritten environment. 

You gave the kid hope.  But, I don't think it will help here...

He is signing up to retake the test in February.  I'm kind of for just going all in mentally for his second choice which is pretty much a sure thing and abandoning the stress.