Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 17, 2017 14:08:54 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 17, 2017 14:21:28 GMT -5
I believe the Democratic Party will survive its current brand of stupidity, just as I believe the Republican party will survive its current brand of stupidity. Both parties have been declared walking dead before, and they have been hanging in there.
This is the hot topic, so of course she has to say something like this. I doubt it was brought up a few years ago. I also suspect it would have been quite a distraction if our black president and his party minions went around removing all the confederate symbols and statues. They were too busy pushing through all those policies you hate so much. It is a distraction now because Trump is letting it be. If he put his head down, did some work and said the lame platitudes that every president says in these situations, this would be a footnote.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 17, 2017 15:21:28 GMT -5
Did you even read your link? States decide what statue to send there.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 17, 2017 15:48:26 GMT -5
I know our Republican governor has asked the bust of Nathaniel Bedford Forrest be removed from the Tennessee capital building.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 17, 2017 15:50:17 GMT -5
What cracks me up is until the past week I never heard anyone, on tv or on these boards, mutter a word about any confederate statues. Now it is an uproar. Smells like flavor of the week to me
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 17, 2017 15:57:35 GMT -5
What cracks me up is until the past week I never heard anyone, on tv or on these boards, mutter a word about any confederate statues. Now it is an uproar. Smells like flavor of the week to me Maybe not on a national level, but here in this little town we've had a issue with a small statue with the names of the local Confederate soldiers who died placed on our court house lawn. Now the issue has come up again. I can see both sides of their argument. Most people don't even know it's there or what it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 16:01:58 GMT -5
Yeah. If you haven't been paying attention to it, it must not have existed.
If it doesn't matter to you, it must be a fad someone cooked up to get attention. Or some shit.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 17, 2017 16:12:02 GMT -5
Are those who fought in the Civil War designated as United States Veterans? I'm finding conflicting information. I have no problem with removing the statues if they honestly offend people. I would have an issue with messing with veteran monuments that include all veterans of all wars. Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 16:14:26 GMT -5
A civil war veterans memorial seems an appropriate place.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 17, 2017 16:15:31 GMT -5
Yeah. If you haven't been paying attention to it, it must not have existed. If it doesn't matter to you, it must be a fad someone cooked up to get attention. Or some shit. Yes, I definitely think it is the latest bandwagon to jump on. Or have there been prior threads on here related to this issue that I have missed? I haven't seen this discussed anywhere until this week and now that is all people are talking about.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 17, 2017 16:17:18 GMT -5
... Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Just wow
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 17, 2017 16:19:44 GMT -5
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 17, 2017 16:20:41 GMT -5
Coming out of Naval electronics school to my first duty station I was told not to wear my uniform. 1968 and I was in DC weekend of riots. The war was not my choice.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 17, 2017 16:28:21 GMT -5
Coming out of Naval electronics school to my first duty station I was told not to wear my uniform. 1968 and I was in DC weekend of riots. The war was not my choice. Of course it wasn't. I had a family member who got garbage thrown at him and got spit on when he returned. If my family history is accurate, it was about the same time as you note. If we are going to start tearing down monuments to unpopular conflicts/wars, they may very well be coming for those next.
As I said, I don't mind the statues coming down. It honestly makes no difference to me one way or the other. If they are offensive to some, fine. I do have a problem with messing with veterans monuments that include veterans of all wars. That's why I asked if Civil War soldiers were classified as vets.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 17, 2017 16:32:39 GMT -5
... If we are going to start tearing down monuments to unpopular conflicts/wars, ... No one is talking about tearing down any statutes of any soldier who has fought for the United States of America. (Okay maybe a few for those who fought against Native American).
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 17, 2017 16:41:11 GMT -5
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 17, 2017 16:45:40 GMT -5
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 17, 2017 16:58:18 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 17, 2017 18:23:33 GMT -5
It is smart for any towns considering removal, to do it now, quickly and quietly. If you wait 6 months, this whole thing will start up again and your town may be the center of the controversy.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 17, 2017 18:35:57 GMT -5
If they are going to come down, I agree. It should be done quickly so as to not give the protesters anywhere to protest. Looks like some of them are being defaced and toppled anyway.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 17, 2017 20:08:17 GMT -5
Sad but true. I would love to find the old thread and see which posters were defending that painting and see what they were saying about the statues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 1:24:17 GMT -5
Are those who fought in the Civil War designated as United States Veterans? I'm finding conflicting information. I have no problem with removing the statues if they honestly offend people. I would have an issue with messing with veteran monuments that include all veterans of all wars. Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Yes... and no. Confederate soldiers are designated as "veterans equal to and as if then had served as Union soldiers". Proof can be easily found in these two simple facts (from the Arlington National Cemetery's website): Eligibility for Internment (ground burial) which is too long to quote, but basically it says you have to have served in the US Military, and then goes on to list the various ways you could have served and This memorial and internment area set aside SPECIFICALLY for Confederate soldiers in ArlingtonNot to mention the Veterans Benefits apportioned by the US Congress to veterans of the Confederacy and spouses & children of deceased veterans of the Confederacy as proven here: US Code - Statutes - Public Law 85/425
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Aug 18, 2017 7:07:37 GMT -5
Are those who fought in the Civil War designated as United States Veterans? I'm finding conflicting information. I have no problem with removing the statues if they honestly offend people. I would have an issue with messing with veteran monuments that include all veterans of all wars. Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Not to mention the Veterans Benefits apportioned by the US Congress to veterans of the Confederacy and spouses & children of deceased veterans of the Confederacy as proven here: US Code - Statutes - Public Law 85/425I believe there was some rather harsh words about this a few years back. Some people are or were still collecting a monthly payment due to their past relatives having served in the Confederate Army. If I remember correctly, some wanted to increase the amount while others wanted to completely end the practice. On one corner of our court house square, we have an eternal flame. It honors all from this area who served no matter what side they served with. There are ceremonies held near there every year for both Confederate and US soldiers & their families. GEL commented about Viet Nam not being popular....The Civil War monuments aren't really about the war itself, most were erected during the Jim Crow era to remind many _____ (you fill in that space) that the white guys still had control. A few are monuments to the rank/file soldiers, but most are of military leaders in the Confederate service and while they may be heros in some people's eyes, they weren't/aren't in many others. So it's not about how popular any war was/wasn't, it's about honoring someone who many feel don't deserve it and serve as a reminder of what was.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2017 7:50:38 GMT -5
Are those who fought in the Civil War designated as United States Veterans? I'm finding conflicting information. I have no problem with removing the statues if they honestly offend people. I would have an issue with messing with veteran monuments that include all veterans of all wars. Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Don't forget the left criteria,, You lost the war,,, That most certainly includes Vietnam!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2017 8:02:17 GMT -5
... Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Just wow Why not it fit the criteria that has been put forth here ,,,We lost that war. simple as that.. or do we pick and chose that one has to go, but not that??
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 18, 2017 8:05:33 GMT -5
Are those who fought in the Civil War designated as United States Veterans? I'm finding conflicting information. I have no problem with removing the statues if they honestly offend people. I would have an issue with messing with veteran monuments that include all veterans of all wars. Vietnam wasn't a popular conflict either and those coming home from there weren't exactly loved. Are they next? Don't forget the left criteria,, You lost the war,,, That most certainly includes Vietnam! And yet we won the election, and it should be business as usual, but the left is fomenting a coup. We won. They lost. And yet they act as if they "won". Hard to give up the reins of power!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 18, 2017 8:18:43 GMT -5
Why not it fit the criteria that has been put forth here ,,,We lost that war. simple as that.. ... I disagree that we lost that war. The American people, a small group to start but more and more as time went on, fought and some died to bring our soldiers home. We, the American people, won that war. It is true that a mistake was made in blaming rank and file service men and women. I think we have grown from that experience.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2017 8:22:43 GMT -5
Let me tell you about your wonderful Pelosi, The gun running "Fast and Furious" that I think was contrived by the ATF, Pelosi and Obama,
In a way of bringing around more gun control.
When the ATF first announced the gun running to Mexico, Pelosi had her news conference announcing the need for tons more gun control,
Then, when the ATF was shown to have screwed up big time, Everything went way!!!!
Obama used his Executive Privilege to seal tons of documents,, Ever wonder why, That's right, covering up evidence!!!
Evidence that may have shown he was dead in the middle of it..
At least 350 Mexicans, and two Americans, including a border patrol officer are dead because of their actions!!!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2017 8:25:19 GMT -5
Why not it fit the criteria that has been put forth here ,,,We lost that war. simple as that.. ... I disagree that we lost that war. The American people, a small group to start but more and more as time went on, fought and some died to bring our soldiers home. We, the American people, won that war. It is true that a mistake was made in blaming rank and file service men and women. I think we have grown from that experience. Bullshit, We tucked our tails between our legs and wimped a way!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 18, 2017 8:27:46 GMT -5
Not to mention the Veterans Benefits apportioned by the US Congress to veterans of the Confederacy and spouses & children of deceased veterans of the Confederacy as proven here: US Code - Statutes - Public Law 85/425I believe there was some rather harsh words about this a few years back. Some people are or were still collecting a monthly payment due to their past relatives having served in the Confederate Army. If I remember correctly, some wanted to increase the amount while others wanted to completely end the practice.On one corner of our court house square, we have an eternal flame. It honors all from this area who served no matter what side they served with. There are ceremonies held near there every year for both Confederate and US soldiers & their families. GEL commented about Viet Nam not being popular....The Civil War monuments aren't really about the war itself, most were erected during the Jim Crow era to remind many _____ (you fill in that space) that the white guys still had control. A few are monuments to the rank/file soldiers, but most are of military leaders in the Confederate service and while they may be heros in some people's eyes, they weren't/aren't in many others. So it's not about how popular any war was/wasn't, it's about honoring someone who many feel don't deserve it and serve as a reminder of what was. I didn't find anything on that, but its crazy to me if true. The Civil War ended in 1865. Found the below the below though. Here's a program Trump should have cut instead of some of the others he chose.
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/government-spending-confederate-graves/277931/
Over two million in the past decade to create and ship headstones for confederate soldiers.
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