weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2017 22:30:18 GMT -5
Of course, Virgil. Now that it's a conservative in office, let's limit the anti-POTUS talk. Where the hell were you during the previous eight years?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2017 22:33:39 GMT -5
Now we can't refer to his colour, can't post photo-shopped images, can't call him derogatory nicknames, etc., because the snowflakes on the right might get their knickers in a knot? Funny how this never mattered before.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 18, 2017 22:40:35 GMT -5
A video clip example as to why its hard not to talk about Trump when discussing American federal politics.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 12:27:16 GMT -5
Of course, Virgil. Now that it's a conservative in office, let's limit the anti-POTUS talk. Where the hell were you during the previous eight years? What part of "It wasn't nearly this bad in previous years." is confusing you? It was sufficiently bad in previous years that we put measures in place: bans on photoshopped images, thread limits, bans on many contentious topics. But it never got to the point where criticism of Pres. Obama monopolized virtually every thread in P/CE, where it was inescapable. The problem has doubled and redoubled in magnitude since Pres. Trump's election, and hence a new approach is needed. You'll note that it's a passive approach. It's not a ban or a restriction. Participation is entirely optional. Besides this, it will serve as a "safe zone" vis a vis criticism of Pres. Obama and Ms. Clinton too, both of which I'm sure local Democrats can appreciate.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 19, 2017 12:35:06 GMT -5
Why not just take everyone that hates the threads here over to your personal section where everyone can escape reality? You have a place that could be used to solve whatever "issue" you claim to have here.
Most mods would be happy that the boards are hopping, not dead like before. People are talking about issues more now than they have been in a while. Only you seem to think that's a bad thing. Take your snowflakes over to the "Virgil's Inferno" and leave the rest of us to talk about what we want to on the threads we want to without more micro-managing rules you decide we suddenly need.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 19, 2017 12:37:04 GMT -5
Again, though:
and:
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 19, 2017 12:47:57 GMT -5
That's in interesting thought, but wouldn't we have difficulty finding political topics that are not at all related to Trump? Talk about Devos in education, it will ultimately go back to who put her there. Talk about the US withdrawing from the Paris treaty - goes back to who withdrew us.
Talk about why tax reform will be so very hard to get done, that goes back to Trump stuck in a quagmire unable to move his agenda forward due to the carnival show all around him.
Even if we talk about foreign politics, we're in danger of getting sucked back into the Trump black hole. (North Korea, Syria, Russia).
Literally, the man IS a black hole, drawing all the attention in the country into himself. I don't like it any better than you do, but I don't know if we can figure out a way to safely have discussions that don't end up circling back to that giant sucking black hole.
I understand well why most discussions gravitate towards him. But I've also observed that posters are compelled to criticize him or defend him, and that this need consistently outweighs the need to sustain existing debates. Poster A and B will be discussing the pros and cons of staying in the Paris treaty, poster C will come in and (not unfairly) mention Pres. Trump, either A or B will respond defensively, their counterpart will follow suit, and the original discussion is permanently lost. In other cases, poster C will come in and (not unfairly) mention Pres. Obama, either A or B responds with a tu quoque naming Pres. Trump, and the end is the same. You might say that "Trump" is an apt surname, given the man trumps all other topics of conversation. A safe thread would be unique in that it would suppress the compulsion to attack or defend the man (and likewise for Pres. Obama and Ms. Clinton). Hence a discussion about the Paris treaty remains focused on the nature of the treaty, climate change, etc. Neither side is beholden to attack or defend the (ex-) US leadership. It's a place where posters can express their opinions without fretting over the inevitability of having to discuss controversial people rather than controversial issues. This would be particularly precious to a poster like me who agrees with some of Pres. Trump's policies/positions but generally can't stand the man. We won't have to waste time perpetually disclaiming that our agreement with Pres. Trump on issue X doesn't equate to support for the man. The issue doesn't get dragged off the rails by the "You're either pro-Trump or anti-Trump" dialectic. The more I talk about it, the more I'm convinced it's a worthwhile experiment. I'm going to run it by admin to see about giving it a try. I'll bet it'll be a hit once it gets up and running. The more I see your explaination, the more i don't like it. You can't control what we talk about, and i don't want you to. If i don't like the direction a thread went, i stop reading. Easy peasy.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 12:54:49 GMT -5
I understand well why most discussions gravitate towards him. But I've also observed that posters are compelled to criticize him or defend him, and that this need consistently outweighs the need to sustain existing debates. Poster A and B will be discussing the pros and cons of staying in the Paris treaty, poster C will come in and (not unfairly) mention Pres. Trump, either A or B will respond defensively, their counterpart will follow suit, and the original discussion is permanently lost. In other cases, poster C will come in and (not unfairly) mention Pres. Obama, either A or B responds with a tu quoque naming Pres. Trump, and the end is the same. You might say that "Trump" is an apt surname, given the man trumps all other topics of conversation. A safe thread would be unique in that it would suppress the compulsion to attack or defend the man (and likewise for Pres. Obama and Ms. Clinton). Hence a discussion about the Paris treaty remains focused on the nature of the treaty, climate change, etc. Neither side is beholden to attack or defend the (ex-) US leadership. It's a place where posters can express their opinions without fretting over the inevitability of having to discuss controversial people rather than controversial issues. This would be particularly precious to a poster like me who agrees with some of Pres. Trump's policies/positions but generally can't stand the man. We won't have to waste time perpetually disclaiming that our agreement with Pres. Trump on issue X doesn't equate to support for the man. The issue doesn't get dragged off the rails by the "You're either pro-Trump or anti-Trump" dialectic. The more I talk about it, the more I'm convinced it's a worthwhile experiment. I'm going to run it by admin to see about giving it a try. I'll bet it'll be a hit once it gets up and running. The more I see your explaination, the more i don't like it. You can't control what we talk about, and i don't want you to. If i don't like the direction a thread went, i stop reading. Easy peasy. You and Steff can follow Steff's earlier advice and knock yourselves out avoiding the thread. I believe that addresses all concerns.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 19, 2017 13:00:58 GMT -5
No, it doesn't.
We're already over moderated here.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 19, 2017 13:10:56 GMT -5
Wasn't your own section good enough? Why do you want to control the narrative here so bad? And other than you, who has all these "concerns"?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 13:19:35 GMT -5
Wasn't your own section good enough? Why do you want to control the narrative here so bad? - It's not "my" section. I'm not permitted to post there except to answer questions. Admin created it and named it after me in response to my appeal that posters ought to be able to discuss abortion on a political message board.
- Restricting a single topic in a single thread hardly aspires to "controlling the narrative", and I've already given a detailed rationale for the restriction.
- The proposal does you no harm. It can only improve quality of discourse on the board. If nobody is interested, the experiment fails and the threads dies quietly in obscurity.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 13:22:13 GMT -5
No, it doesn't. We're already over moderated here. If it's that important to you, I'll tweak your account so that the thread isn't visible or accessible. This not only ensures you'll never be subject to its topic restriction, it guarantees the thread won't interfere with your YMAM experience in any way.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 19, 2017 13:28:21 GMT -5
This is getting ridiculous. Control freak mod being allowed to decide when we're talking about something "too much".
Fuck that.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 19, 2017 13:35:40 GMT -5
Conservatives love to police social activities.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 19, 2017 14:02:02 GMT -5
If it's that important to you, I'll tweak your account so that the thread isn't visible or accessible. This not only ensures you'll never be subject to its topic restriction, it guarantees the thread won't interfere with your YMAM experience in any way. I don't want you tweaking anything. be aware that he once "tweaked" my account with no discussion, without my knowledge or permission, and without anyone knowing about it. I had to fight to get undone what he did. Don't trust him to not do it anyway.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 19, 2017 14:03:50 GMT -5
I don't want you tweaking anything. be aware that he once "tweaked" my account with no discussion, without my knowledge or permission, and without anyone knowing about it. I had to fight to get undone what he did. Don't trust him to not do it anyway. I don't trust him. Yes, Virgil, I said it. I believe you once mentioned you have a spreadsheet on posters' information. If so, that's creepy.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 16:21:16 GMT -5
I don't want you tweaking anything. be aware that he once "tweaked" my account with no discussion, without my knowledge or permission, and without anyone knowing about it. I had to fight to get undone what he did. Don't trust him to not do it anyway. I did so with moon/Laura 's blessing during a period when you threw a fit if I so much as posted in the same thread as you, after you repeatedly, flagrantly violated an agreement not to mention each other's posts. I also provided you with ample warning that I'd block my posts from your account if you continued to flout the agreement. Just so everyone knows what we're talking about here.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 16:30:35 GMT -5
be aware that he once "tweaked" my account with no discussion, without my knowledge or permission, and without anyone knowing about it. I had to fight to get undone what he did. Don't trust him to not do it anyway. I don't trust him. Yes, Virgil, I said it. I believe you once mentioned you have a spreadsheet on posters' information. If so, that's creepy. My "spreadsheet" is a fiction dreamed up by Weltz. All I have is my memory and the use of the "Search" function. Rest assured, I won't hide the thread unless you consent or break an explicit contract.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Aug 19, 2017 16:57:58 GMT -5
Virgil, all I can do is shake my head here. We are *not* going to create any sort "trump free zone". If people don't want to see/hear about him then they can simply avoid the politics board, or any other obviously political threads (based on subject line). I am not interested in being seen as even more of an evil dictator than I already am. Sorry.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2017 18:19:31 GMT -5
Virgil, all I can do is shake my head here. We are *not* going to create any sort "trump free zone". If people don't want to see/hear about him then they can simply avoid the politics board, or any other obviously political threads (based on subject line). I am not interested in being seen as even more of an evil dictator than I already am. Sorry. Fair enough.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 19, 2017 22:25:27 GMT -5
Isn't it enough that we're not permitted to discuss religion or abortion in the general threads, and now the POTUS? It's not enough that we're even forbidden to mention his exaggerated fake pigmentation? How about the albino weasel that rests atop his head? Is that verboten, or not yet?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 19, 2017 23:46:19 GMT -5
Thank you, Moon!!!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2017 8:56:16 GMT -5
Isn't it enough that we're not permitted to discuss religion or abortion in the general threads, and now the POTUS? It's not enough that we're even forbidden to mention his exaggerated fake pigmentation? How about the albino weasel that rests atop his head? Is that verboten, or not yet? The proposal was for one thread. And this kind of petty crap is 50% of the reason it would be a diamond in the rough. But: proposal declined. You needn't lose any more sleep over it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2017 10:59:46 GMT -5
The anti-trump thread will stop a few months after he leaves office, so March 2025.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 22, 2017 11:02:36 GMT -5
😇
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 22, 2017 11:59:03 GMT -5
Start a thread on another topic? Just out of curiosity, are you counting the "Another Day, Another Anti-Trump Thread" thread as one of the Trump-related threads? Because in that one, the conservative poster was so sick of the anti-Trump threads he had to start an entire thread devoted to how people should talk about other topics (instead of, you know, actually talking about these other topics by starting a thread on one of them). It makes it seem like conservatives can't think of anything else to discuss either. The secret sauce, I believe, is what I proposed earlier: a single no-Trump "safe zone" thread, with the exclusion enforced. The inclusion would cover any mention of Pres. Trump in any context, including complaints about too much Trump. The conversation we're having now, for instance, couldn't take place on the new thread. Perhaps it would die. I certainly couldn't sustain it on my own. But I believe it would be a worthwhile experiment. I was thinking about making it user-policed under the following protocol: - members could flag posts as "Trump-related" subject to their best judgment, given a summary set of rules
- any post flagged by 3+ members would be instantly hidden and ultimately deleted
- mods would review flagged posts; members found to be erroneously flagging posts would lose their ability to do so
- members accumulating more than three hidden posts per 90 days would be locked out of the thread
The exclusion would be strict. Not only direct references, but anything that could be reasonably inferred as referring to Pres. Trump or his administration would be off-limits. To avoid the appearance of partisanship, I'd be more than happy to include Ms. Clinton and Pres. Obama on the list of exclusions for the thread. This would prevent "But Hillary..." tu quoque defenses that frustrate local Democrats. Frankly, the thread would be a real oasis in the middle of an ideological wasteland.
I'd expect a rocky start, with various members testing out how far they could push things, but ultimately any malcontents would make their peace with the thread and we'd have our oasis. Real Americans understand that our nation was born in a rebellion against tyranny. Thankfully Moon is a real American.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 22, 2017 12:28:05 GMT -5
Oh I'm sure many Americans out there thought Trump was going to be a rebellion against tyranny. April fools!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2017 13:57:44 GMT -5
Oh I'm sure many Americans out there thought Trump was going to be a rebellion against tyranny. April fools! Maybe we should now have the saying "November fools!"
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 22, 2017 19:57:06 GMT -5
Real Americans understand that our nation was born in a rebellion against tyranny. Thankfully Moon is a real American. I assume "real Americans" can also distinguish between tyranny and a single thread with a topic restriction. Riddle me this: if a request for a Trump- and Obama-free thread constitutes "tyranny", what would you call the mandatory forum-wide ban on abortion, religious discussion, photoshopped images, speculation on member bans, etc.? Reasonable accommodation? A cookie badge to the critic who first admits they don't give a crap about the thread, they're just offended that Uppity Joe is sick to death of the only topic they're capable of discussing for more than two minutes.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 22, 2017 20:05:57 GMT -5
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