You can be anything you want if you put your mind to it

[dannylion]

I have always wanted to be taller.

I also went through a phase of wanting to be Japanese.

I eventually had to adjust my goals as neither of them was ever attainable, no matter how much I worked at them.

[milee]

I haven't yet given up on being taller.

"You can be anything you want..." is generally not helpful advice.  There are some things where people are able to do much, much more than they think they're capable of, so it's important to encourage them.  There are other things where people aren't realistic and can waste infinite effort pursuing something that will never happen, so it's important to give them realistic advice.  The key is being able to distinguish between the two situations...  Helping your kids develop the ability to effectively evaluate a situation and make the distinction between the two situations is a lot more helpful than giving them meaningless (and possibly misleading) encouragement.

[Bonny]

Jun 22, 2017 19:07:47 GMT -5 dannylion said:

I have always wanted to be taller.

I also went through a phase of wanting to be Japanese.

I eventually had to adjust my goals as neither of them was ever attainable, no matter how much I worked at them.

Lol, inspired by the song?

[dannylion]

Jun 22, 2017 20:38:16 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Jun 22, 2017 19:07:47 GMT -5 dannylion said:

I have always wanted to be taller.

I also went through a phase of wanting to be Japanese.

I eventually had to adjust my goals as neither of them was ever attainable, no matter how much I worked at them.

Lol, inspired by the song?

LOL!  Actually, no. By the time the song came out, I had long outgrown my wanting-to-be-Japanese phase, which took place mostly when I was in college in the 1960s.

[Peace Of Mind]

Jun 22, 2017 16:33:06 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Jun 22, 2017 10:10:59 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

You forgot the one that is like nails on a blackboard to me: "if I can do it, anyone can do it." The condescension and fake modesty rolled into that one statement just want to make me  

Lol, I do say that. Am I on your "S" list?

I do mean it. I don't think I'm particularly talented in anything. 

LOL! I was going to comment that I say that but in my case it's really true because I'm just not all that.

But Yay!!!  I can be a pretty, pretty princess!   <<puts on tiara and spins around>> 

[Deleted]

I've been in Toastmasters for years and a favorite theme of the people who want to be motivational speakers is, "You can accomplish anything you want if you just go for it".  Umm, no.  I will never be an opera singer or a ballerina and, at age 64, I will probably never be able to complete an Ironman.  (I know because I did one that was a 1/3-mile swim, 9 miles on the bike and a 5K last week and that was enough, thank you.)

You need to know when to fold 'em and you need to learn how to handle failure.  I've joked with DS that one of the best things I taught him was how to handle failure. I survived actuarial exams early in my career.  Back then, the pass ratios for each exam ran at 30-40% and there were 10 of them.  They were given every 6 months and it was recommended that you study 300 hours for each one.  I've known of some darn good people who gave up on them.  One got a Ph.D. in finance and went on to a successful academic career.  Another already had a Ph.D. in physics.  And one was a guy named Milton Friedman.  I think he went on to a successful academic career, too.   I've never shied away form hard work and DS, bless him, never has, either, but you need to be confident that the end result will be worth the work.  Sometimes you decide it won't be.

[swamp]

Jun 23, 2017 6:59:20 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I've been in Toastmasters for years and a favorite theme of the people who want to be motivational speakers is, "You can accomplish anything you want if you just go for it".  Umm, no.  I will never be an opera singer or a ballerina and, at age 64, I will probably never be able to complete an Ironman.  (I know because I did one that was a 1/3-mile swim, 9 miles on the bike and a 5K last week and that was enough, thank you.)

You need to know when to fold 'em and you need to learn how to handle failure.  I've joked with DS that one of the best things I taught him was how to handle failure. I survived actuarial exams early in my career.  Back then, the pass ratios for each exam ran at 30-40% and there were 10 of them.  They were given every 6 months and it was recommended that you study 300 hours for each one.  I've known of some darn good people who gave up on them.  One got a Ph.D. in finance and went on to a successful academic career.  Another already had a Ph.D. in physics.  And one was a guy named Milton Friedman.  I think he went on to a successful academic career, too.   I've never shied away form hard work and DS, bless him, never has, either, but you need to be confident that the end result will be worth the work.  Sometimes you decide it won't be.

I will never be tall.  I will never be a fashion model.  I will never do an Ironman.  I will never run a marathon.   And that's OK.

[MJ2.0]

Someone check for the apocalypse because I agreed with TWO of Shooby's posts

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 23, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 23, 2017 6:59:20 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I've been in Toastmasters for years and a favorite theme of the people who want to be motivational speakers is, "You can accomplish anything you want if you just go for it".  Umm, no.  I will never be an opera singer or a ballerina and, at age 64, I will probably never be able to complete an Ironman.  (I know because I did one that was a 1/3-mile swim, 9 miles on the bike and a 5K last week and that was enough, thank you.)

You need to know when to fold 'em and you need to learn how to handle failure.  I've joked with DS that one of the best things I taught him was how to handle failure. I survived actuarial exams early in my career.  Back then, the pass ratios for each exam ran at 30-40% and there were 10 of them.  They were given every 6 months and it was recommended that you study 300 hours for each one.  I've known of some darn good people who gave up on them.  One got a Ph.D. in finance and went on to a successful academic career.  Another already had a Ph.D. in physics.  And one was a guy named Milton Friedman.  I think he went on to a successful academic career, too.   I've never shied away form hard work and DS, bless him, never has, either, but you need to be confident that the end result will be worth the work.  Sometimes you decide it won't be.

I will never be tall.  I will never be a fashion model.  I will never do an Ironman.  I will never run a marathon.   And that's OK.

I thought you ran a marathon just a few months ago.

[swamp]

I did a sprint triathlon last summer. I walked the run part.  

I have a herniated disc and cannot run. 

I am also stocky build with short legs, I'm build for strength, not speed. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 23, 2017 11:13:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

I did a sprint triathlon last summer. I walked the run part.  

I have a herniated disc and cannot run. 

I am also stocky build with short legs, I'm build for strength, not speed. 

Marathon, triathlon, same difference.

Incidentally, I just now, after 34 years, discovered it's "triathlon" and not "triathalon". Who says the mind stagnates on a message board?

[swamp]

Jun 23, 2017 11:25:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 23, 2017 11:13:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

I did a sprint triathlon last summer. I walked the run part.  

I have a herniated disc and cannot run. 

I am also stocky build with short legs, I'm build for strength, not speed. 

Marathon, triathlon, same difference.

Incidentally, I just now, after 34 years, discovered it's "triathlon" and not "triathalon". Who says the mind stagnates on a message board?

No. Marathon involves running 26.2 miles.

A triathlon is swim/bike/run and the distances depend on what type of tri it is. I did the sprint. It was 750k swim, 12k bike, 5k run. I see no need to do the Olympic distance or Ironman.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 23, 2017 11:27:28 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 23, 2017 11:25:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Marathon, triathlon, same difference.

Incidentally, I just now, after 34 years, discovered it's "triathlon" and not "triathalon". Who says the mind stagnates on a message board?

No. Marathon involves running 26.2 miles.

A triathlon is swim/bike/run and the distances depend on what type of tri it is. I did the sprint. It was 750k swim, 12k bike, 5k run. I see no need to do the Olympic distance or Ironman.

You misunderstand. I understand the difference between the events. But in terms of personal accomplishments, getting fit enough to (mostly) run a triathlon in middle age is, in my estimation, as worthy a goal as running a marathon in one's physical prime. 19 out of 20 people are going to be just as impressed by the former as they are by the latter.

Also, I'm guessing a 750 meter swim? If not, I believe you hold the world record by an order of magnitude.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 23, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 23, 2017 6:59:20 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I've been in Toastmasters for years and a favorite theme of the people who want to be motivational speakers is, "You can accomplish anything you want if you just go for it".  Umm, no.  I will never be an opera singer or a ballerina and, at age 64, I will probably never be able to complete an Ironman.  (I know because I did one that was a 1/3-mile swim, 9 miles on the bike and a 5K last week and that was enough, thank you.)

You need to know when to fold 'em and you need to learn how to handle failure.  I've joked with DS that one of the best things I taught him was how to handle failure. I survived actuarial exams early in my career.  Back then, the pass ratios for each exam ran at 30-40% and there were 10 of them.  They were given every 6 months and it was recommended that you study 300 hours for each one.  I've known of some darn good people who gave up on them.  One got a Ph.D. in finance and went on to a successful academic career.  Another already had a Ph.D. in physics.  And one was a guy named Milton Friedman.  I think he went on to a successful academic career, too.   I've never shied away form hard work and DS, bless him, never has, either, but you need to be confident that the end result will be worth the work.  Sometimes you decide it won't be.

I will never be tall.  I will never be a fashion model.  I will never do an Ironman.  I will never run a marathon.   And that's OK.

We all learn our limitations and how to deal and compensate for them as life goes on.

But what is the outcome if at a young age your parents were to tell you your limitations?


I'm not seeing an upside to that, and there are plenty who relate that parents gave them horrible feedback in the guise of being "honest" or "real" or whatever. 

And - I question any parent who feels a need to let their child know their limitations. Like those coach-types who disparage their kids athletic ability, etc. frequently at an age earlier than a real determination is valid. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 23, 2017 12:49:25 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Jun 23, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -5 swamp said:

I will never be tall.  I will never be a fashion model.  I will never do an Ironman.  I will never run a marathon.   And that's OK.

We all learn our limitations and how to deal and compensate for them as life goes on.

But what is the outcome if at a young age your parents were to tell you your limitations?


I'm not seeing an upside to that, and there are plenty who relate that parents gave them horrible feedback in the guise of being "honest" or "real" or whatever. 

And - I question any parent who feels a need to let their child know their limitations. Like those coach-types who disparage their kids athletic ability, etc. frequently at an age earlier than a real determination is valid. 

Telling kids anything is rarely a good idea. Helping them grow in self awareness is something that a parent can do. You don't want to point out that the kid is a lazy ass but how about: "So your goal to be a professional trumpet player. Lets talk about what you need to do to get there. Your band teacher asked you to practice one hour a day plus two hours on weekend days. I have noted you aren't doing that now. Are you dedicated enough to start doing that? Without that degree of effort now, you aren't likely to meet that goal."

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 23, 2017 13:19:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 23, 2017 12:49:25 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

We all learn our limitations and how to deal and compensate for them as life goes on.

But what is the outcome if at a young age your parents were to tell you your limitations?


I'm not seeing an upside to that, and there are plenty who relate that parents gave them horrible feedback in the guise of being "honest" or "real" or whatever. 

And - I question any parent who feels a need to let their child know their limitations. Like those coach-types who disparage their kids athletic ability, etc. frequently at an age earlier than a real determination is valid. 

Telling kids anything is rarely a good idea. Helping them grow in self awareness is something that a parent can do. You don't want to point out that the kid is a lazy ass but how about: "So your goal to be a professional trumpet player. Lets talk about what you need to do to get there. Your band teacher asked you to practice one hour a day plus two hours on weekend days. I have noted you aren't doing that now. Are you dedicated enough to start doing that? Without that degree of effort now, you aren't likely to meet that goal."

We're on the same page, I think.

[kittensaver]

One *can indeed* be anything one wants to be.

HOWEVER - being good at it, being successful at it, making money at it, being self-supporting while doing/being it, being famous for it . . . . well that is something else entirely.

JMHO

Edited to add: want to be taller? buy shoes with 4 inch heels. Want to be Japanese? Emigrate to Japan and become a citizen. Want to be a model? Hire a photographer for a photo shoot. Want to be a princess? Buy a tiara. The workarounds are endless . . . .

[dannylion]

Jun 23, 2017 11:15:44 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jun 22, 2017 19:07:47 GMT -5 dannylion said:

I have always wanted to be taller.

I also went through a phase of wanting to be Japanese.

I eventually had to adjust my goals as neither of them was ever attainable, no matter how much I worked at them.

i heard a song where some guy was turning Japanese, perhaps there is a way?

In all seriousness, Japan has some mega problem that make ours seem tame, not sure I'd set out to become Japanes

Well, since my "wanting to be Japanese" phase occurred nearly 50 years ago, neither consideration applies.

I was primarily interested in Japanese art and aesthetic sense, which I still find fascinating.  Also haiku.  Fortunately, I discovered I could enjoy those aspects of the culture and still be me, such as I am. 

[dannylion]

Jun 23, 2017 16:33:57 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jun 23, 2017 16:07:42 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Well, since my "wanting to be Japanese" phase occurred nearly 50 years ago, neither consideration applies.

I was primarily interested in Japanese art and aesthetic sense, which I still find fascinating.  Also haiku.  Fortunately, I discovered I could enjoy those aspects of the culture and still be me, such as I am. 

have I mentioned you're one of the  most clever and charming posters on this board.  would love to see you post more. 

Aw, that's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me in a long time!

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2017 14:24:11 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

One *can indeed* be anything one wants to be.

HOWEVER - being good at it, being successful at it, making money at it, being self-supporting while doing/being it, being famous for it . . . . well that is something else entirely.

I was just reminded of the movie in which Meryl Streep played Florence Foster Jenkins, a wealthy woman who threw a ton of money into her dream of being an opera singer.   Streep did a wonderful job of portraying an AWFUL opera singer.

[beergut]

 I think it is good advice as long as parents are realistic with their kids about what can be achieved through desire and hard work.

 You can practice basketball for 10,000 hours, but if you lack in height and speed and are not advanced athletically, you're most likely never going to play in the NBA.

 However, you can practice playing trumpet for 10,000 hours and become a professional trumpet player. 

 I think the overall message that you can apply hard work to your passion to accomplish anything is a good one. 

[giramomma]

Jun 25, 2017 2:04:40 GMT -5 beergut said:

 I think it is good advice as long as parents are realistic with their kids about what can be achieved through desire and hard work.

 You can practice basketball for 10,000 hours, but if you lack in height and speed and are not advanced athletically, you're most likely never going to play in the NBA.

 However, you can practice playing trumpet for 10,000 hours and become a professional trumpet player. 

 I think the overall message that you can apply hard work to your passion to accomplish anything is a good one. 

You have to gifted at music, too. Being a technician isn't enough in music. You can tell the difference between the kids that can execute, but lack musicality. I've also had kids that had a knack for being musical but execution is an issue.

[Shooby]

Practicing 100000 will not make you a master if you lack certain innate abilities or talent. Yes we can all get better at things. You can become your best and that's it. However you may love basketball but will never be Nba but there are other ways to be part of that. Maybe as a coach, ref, volunteer, youth camp etc. Just because you love something doesnt mean you can necessarily make a living doing it. That's what hobbies are for.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 25, 2017 2:04:40 GMT -5 beergut said:

 I think it is good advice as long as parents are realistic with their kids about what can be achieved through desire and hard work.

 You can practice basketball for 10,000 hours, but if you lack in height and speed and are not advanced athletically, you're most likely never going to play in the NBA.

 However, you can practice playing trumpet for 10,000 hours and become a professional trumpet player. 

 I think the overall message that you can apply hard work to your passion to accomplish anything is a good one. 

Wha?

What an insane and prejudicial comparison. 

[swamp]

Jun 25, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 25, 2017 2:04:40 GMT -5 beergut said:

 I think it is good advice as long as parents are realistic with their kids about what can be achieved through desire and hard work.

 You can practice basketball for 10,000 hours, but if you lack in height and speed and are not advanced athletically, you're most likely never going to play in the NBA.

 However, you can practice playing trumpet for 10,000 hours and become a professional trumpet player. 

 I think the overall message that you can apply hard work to your passion to accomplish anything is a good one. 

You have to gifted at music, too. Being a technician isn't enough in music. You can tell the difference between the kids that can execute, but lack musicality. I've also had kids that had a knack for being musical but execution is an issue.

This.  I played clarinet from 4th grade to 12th grade.   I was an outstanding technician.  Musicality was meh.   I will never have that "feeling" that goes into being a fantastic musician.   But that's OK.   I always saw music as a hobby, not a job prospect. 

I also swam.  I know the technique.  I'm actually fascinated with the nuances of technique.  I have a feel for the water.  But, I lack the height, leg length, wingspan, hand size and hyperdrive to be nationally ranked.   Being a big fish in the small pool of the local athletic conference was good enough.   I still swim for fun, and swim for groups in triathlons, because runner/bikers generally can't swim well.   I'm happy with that.

[Deleted]

I'll admit that I give this advice (that you can be anything you want if you put your mind to it).  Understand that I teach high schoolers and seniors to boot.  The last thing they need is their English teacher to say, "You're planning on moving to California to pursue being an actress.  That won't happen in a thousand years."  The time to dream big is when you are unencumbered and young with your whole life in front of you.  You can plan to fail later.

That said, I do talk about back-up plans.  I try to relate them to "the dream."  You are going to play in the NFL?  Great.  But what's your back-up plan?  You want to be a trainer?  You want to be an agent?  What can you pursue in college that will give you options?

I have had some very successful former students.  I mean in addition to the usual doctors, lawyers, etc.  One is a composer who does a lot of band camps and sells a lot of his music.  There are several who work in local tv, which is how most big tv news hosts start out.  I have artists, etc.

As a teacher, my job is to exactly what this thread is about: encourage kids to dream big.  Tempering it with a little reality is the best (or worst) I can do.

[beergut]

Jun 25, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 25, 2017 2:04:40 GMT -5 beergut said:

 I think it is good advice as long as parents are realistic with their kids about what can be achieved through desire and hard work.

 You can practice basketball for 10,000 hours, but if you lack in height and speed and are not advanced athletically, you're most likely never going to play in the NBA.

 However, you can practice playing trumpet for 10,000 hours and become a professional trumpet player. 

 I think the overall message that you can apply hard work to your passion to accomplish anything is a good one. 

You have to gifted at music, too. Being a technician isn't enough in music. You can tell the difference between the kids that can execute, but lack musicality. I've also had kids that had a knack for being musical but execution is an issue.

Two things:

I'm basing this statement on the study referenced in The Outliers and referenced online about the 10,000 hour rule. 

Second, when taking about a 'professional' trumpet player, I'm talking about someone who is simply paid enough for paying the trumpet that he has to report his earnings on his tax return. I know a guy who gets paid to play "Taps" at funerals. He reports his earnings. He is a professional trumpet player. 

Do you disagree that if someone practices for 10,000 hours, they can't be an adept enough technician to play in an event band for weddings or the like and receive payment, regardless of their musicality? 

I'm not arguing that there are not people who are innately gifted at music, simply that someone who doesn't possess an innate talent for music can through hard work become proficient enough playing an instrument to eventually be paid for playing.

[beergut]

Jun 25, 2017 9:35:30 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Practicing 100000 will not make you a master if you lack certain innate abilities or talent. Yes we can all get better at things. You can become your best and that's it. However you may love basketball but will never be Nba but there are other ways to be part of that. Maybe as a coach, ref, volunteer, youth camp etc. Just because you love something doesnt mean you can necessarily make a living doing it. That's what hobbies are for.

Who said anything about being a master? I'm simply talking about being proficient enough to be paid.

[giramomma]

Jun 25, 2017 17:46:23 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jun 25, 2017 8:33:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

You have to gifted at music, too. Being a technician isn't enough in music. You can tell the difference between the kids that can execute, but lack musicality. I've also had kids that had a knack for being musical but execution is an issue.

Two things:

I'm basing this statement on the study referenced in The Outliers and referenced online about the 10,000 hour rule. 

Second, when taking about a 'professional' trumpet player, I'm talking about someone who is simply paid enough for paying the trumpet that he has to report his earnings on his tax return. I know a guy who gets paid to play "Taps" at funerals. He reports his earnings. He is a professional trumpet player. 

Do you disagree that if someone practices for 10,000 hours, they can't be an adept enough technician to play in an event band for weddings or the like and receive payment, regardless of their musicality? 

I'm not arguing that there are not people who are innately gifted at music, simply that someone who doesn't possess an innate talent for music can through hard work become proficient enough playing an instrument to eventually be paid for playing.

I'm making my statements based on being a classically trained musician. It's what I spent from my tweens to mid twenties training for. My master's in music performance with an emphasis in pedagogy (although, now, the pedagogy part is pretty laughable, as most of my teaching skills were not acquired in college, but afterwards.) I've been playing my instrument for close to 40 years now.

My side gig is really focused on teaching. I've really seen it all. I've had kids that excel well enough, but I have to literally teach the phrasing to them measure by measure. One kiddo, in particular was wicked smart. Was doing college level research at 15...groomed to present at poster sessions. Ended up at an Ivy League school. I've been lucky enough to have kids that have the knack. Where I don't have to teach them every bit of phrasing. And even parents with no musical background were able to hear a difference at recitals. (And that kid, in particular, was not practicing a billion hours a day.)

A musician that plays flat will not get gigs. Musically, it's the equivilant of Ben Stein doing monotone. How romantic is it to listen to that on a wedding? Or retirement party? Or Christmas party? (ETA, to give another crass example...the difference between a musician and a technician is like the difference between just f*cking someone or actually making love to them. Would you want the equivalent of an impersonal f*ck playing? Would you like to listen to that? I'm guessing for most things, no. Taps, I think is the outlier.)

Generally, the only people that I consider professionals are those that are trained and sitting in orchestral positions. Folks that play weddings often have other things going on...whether it's being a teacher, a SAHM, or a lawyer they are semi-professional musicians.

I took one quickbooks class and got proficient enough at it. I don't consider myself a book keeper or accountant. Even if I got a side job entering stuff into quickbooks for someone. I would never say "I got paid $50 to enter items into quickbooks. Therefore, I'm an accountant." Because I understand that more training than one quick books class at a tech college is needed to be a competent accountant. And frankly, to say such a thing would be really insulting.

ETA: I got a job this last school year escorting a child from daycare to 4K. I declared the income on our taxes. Because I took care of this kid for 20 minutes a day and have three kids of my own,  I'd never say I'm a child care professional. That's an insult to those who are.

[billisonboard]

Jun 25, 2017 17:48:58 GMT -5 beergut said:

... Who said anything about being a master? I'm simply talking about being proficient enough to be paid.

You set the standard in example one and are attempting to change it for example two.

Jun 25, 2017 2:04:40 GMT -5 beergut said:

.. You can practice basketball .. play in the NBA.

However, you can practice playing trumpet ...