Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jun 22, 2017 9:00:56 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths?
Discuss.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 22, 2017 9:20:29 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 9:21:31 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths? Discuss. I prefer a focus on "doing the work" to make it happen. I think self awareness of individual strengths and challenges is important. I know that there are things that I am just not willing to work as hard as it would take for me to accomplish them.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 22, 2017 9:46:29 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths? Discuss. I prefer a focus on "doing the work" to make it happen. I think self awareness of individual strengths and challenges is important. I know that there are things that I am just not willing to work as hard as it would take for me to accomplish them. I think the cliché IS about working to reach the goal of being what you want to be... "putting your mind to it" is a euphemism for "work hard" or "figure out what it is you need to be doing to get what you want". Getting something you want is often an effort. and it often takes time. You don't wake up at the age of 26 and decide you will be a "musician" or "poet" or "architect" or "doctor" and expect that to magically happen in a few years. Most people start developing skills/collecting knowledge years and years before they become a "something".
While I'm not a big fan of this cliché , I can see where it might have have it's applications... you can't get where you want to go without putting in some effort. And sometimes you can't actually BE what you want to be.
I think as a blanket statement for everyone - it's kind of stupid.
I also HATE the "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again!" - yeah, that works great if you need to learn something via repetition (like shooting free throws or crocheting) it doesn't really address the idea that trying to do it a different way might get you better results.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 22, 2017 10:10:59 GMT -5
I prefer a focus on "doing the work" to make it happen. I think self awareness of individual strengths and challenges is important. I know that there are things that I am just not willing to work as hard as it would take for me to accomplish them. I think the cliché IS about working to reach the goal of being what you want to be... "putting your mind to it" is a euphemism for "work hard" or "figure out what it is you need to be doing to get what you want". Getting something you want is often an effort. and it often takes time. You don't wake up at the age of 26 and decide you will be a "musician" or "poet" or "architect" or "doctor" and expect that to magically happen in a few years. Most people start developing skills/collecting knowledge years and years before they become a "something".
While I'm not a big fan of this cliché , I can see where it might have have it's applications... you can't get where you want to go without putting in some effort. And sometimes you can't actually BE what you want to be.
I think as a blanket statement for everyone - it's kind of stupid.
I also HATE the "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again!" - yeah, that works great if you need to learn something via repetition (like shooting free throws or crocheting) it doesn't really address the idea that trying to do it a different way might get you better results.
You forgot the one that is like nails on a blackboard to me: "if I can do it, anyone can do it." The condescension and fake modesty rolled into that one statement just want to make me
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jun 22, 2017 11:36:38 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths? Discuss. Better than the alternative message "you'll never be as special and wonderful as I am.......what! are you still talking??"
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 12:31:22 GMT -5
I prefer to say "don't be jealous of what someone else has achieved, unless you are willing to do what they did to get to where they are".
Or "Perspiration beats Inspiration", lol
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 22, 2017 12:45:11 GMT -5
I prefer to say "don't be jealous of what someone else has achieved, unless you are willing to do what they did to get to where they are". Although I could be, I am not jealous of my former colleague. She is well-to-do largely because she married a well-to-do man. That has helped her to get designer shoes/bags/dresses, fly first class wherever she goes, have luxury vehicles, etc. I am not jealous because it's probably the most interesting thing about her. Although I did get annoyed when her answer to most problems was "just buy it/a new one!"
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 13:07:18 GMT -5
I prefer to say "don't be jealous of what someone else has achieved, unless you are willing to do what they did to get to where they are". Or "Perspiration beats Inspiration", lol but would modify it to "... unless you are willing to do what you need to do to get to where they are". It might be easier, harder, or just different for a different individual.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 13:13:26 GMT -5
We seem to be filling kids' heads with all sorts of nonsense.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 13:14:47 GMT -5
We seem to be filling kids' heads with all sorts of nonsense. I don't think that I am a part of that "we". YMMV
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 13:39:46 GMT -5
We seem to be filling kids' heads with all sorts of nonsense. I don't think that I am a part of that "we". YMMV Oh ok, here we go. I am talking about SOCIETY in GENERAL. But whatevs.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 13:48:06 GMT -5
I don't think that I am a part of that "we". YMMV Oh ok, here we go. I am talking about SOCIETY in GENERAL. But whatevs. Thank you for that clarification. There is a lot of nonsense out there.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 22, 2017 13:52:51 GMT -5
I mentioned on another thread that I bumped into a mom I used to know, back when DD was in dance lessons. Her DD is "living the dream", got into her favorite college, etc. Unfortunately, she hasn't yet gotten her "dream" job, so she is living, unemployed, in her parent's basement. Even my DD was working part-time, and temp jobs, until she got one that was a good fit for her. Maybe we've been selling the "do what you love" thing too hard?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jun 22, 2017 14:21:16 GMT -5
I mentioned on another thread that I bumped into a mom I used to know, back when DD was in dance lessons. Her DD is "living the dream", got into her favorite college, etc. Unfortunately, she hasn't yet gotten her "dream" job, so she is living, unemployed, in her parent's basement. Even my DD was working part-time, and temp jobs, until she got one that was a good fit for her. Maybe we've been selling the "do what you love" thing too hard? Why? People can and do what they want and they can change course when they see fit to.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 22, 2017 16:33:06 GMT -5
I think the cliché IS about working to reach the goal of being what you want to be... "putting your mind to it" is a euphemism for "work hard" or "figure out what it is you need to be doing to get what you want". Getting something you want is often an effort. and it often takes time. You don't wake up at the age of 26 and decide you will be a "musician" or "poet" or "architect" or "doctor" and expect that to magically happen in a few years. Most people start developing skills/collecting knowledge years and years before they become a "something".
While I'm not a big fan of this cliché , I can see where it might have have it's applications... you can't get where you want to go without putting in some effort. And sometimes you can't actually BE what you want to be.
I think as a blanket statement for everyone - it's kind of stupid.
I also HATE the "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again!" - yeah, that works great if you need to learn something via repetition (like shooting free throws or crocheting) it doesn't really address the idea that trying to do it a different way might get you better results.
You forgot the one that is like nails on a blackboard to me: "if I can do it, anyone can do it." The condescension and fake modesty rolled into that one statement just want to make me Lol, I do say that. Am I on your "S" list?
I do mean it. I don't think I'm particularly talented in anything.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 16:51:34 GMT -5
You forgot the one that is like nails on a blackboard to me: "if I can do it, anyone can do it." The condescension and fake modesty rolled into that one statement just want to make me Lol, I do say that. Am I on your "S" list?
I do mean it. I don't think I'm particularly talented in anything.
So if they do end up doing it, it isn't really much of an accomplishment. And if they don't do it, they are really untalented. Got it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 22, 2017 16:55:08 GMT -5
I mentioned on another thread that I bumped into a mom I used to know, back when DD was in dance lessons. Her DD is "living the dream", got into her favorite college, etc. Unfortunately, she hasn't yet gotten her "dream" job, so she is living, unemployed, in her parent's basement. Even my DD was working part-time, and temp jobs, until she got one that was a good fit for her. Maybe we've been selling the "do what you love" thing too hard? Why? People can and do what they want and they can change course when they see fit to. True, but changing course may mean "admitting failure" and generally to "fail" at one's dream seems kind of soul sucking awful. (which could explain the existence of nihilistic and existential college memes....)
Then there's those dreadful Cognitative biases - especially the one that goes something like "well, I've come this far... if I change I'll loose out even more!" or something along those lines. Those cognitive biases are a bitch.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 17:04:45 GMT -5
I mentioned on another thread that I bumped into a mom I used to know, back when DD was in dance lessons. Her DD is "living the dream", got into her favorite college, etc. Unfortunately, she hasn't yet gotten her "dream" job, so she is living, unemployed, in her parent's basement. Even my DD was working part-time, and temp jobs, until she got one that was a good fit for her. Maybe we've been selling the "do what you love" thing too hard? Like Like Like Like!!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 22, 2017 17:05:41 GMT -5
Lol, I do say that. Am I on your "S" list?
I do mean it. I don't think I'm particularly talented in anything.
So if they do end up doing it, it isn't really much of an accomplishment. And if they don't do it, they are really untalented. Got it. Lol, I guess that's one way of looking at it.
When I use the term it's generally in a situation where somebody thinks something is more difficult than it is. If I break it down into smaller pieces and explain how to do it, it's not really a big deal.
An example is when told my buyers how to deed the property into their Living Trust. They thought they would have to go to their attorney. I explained that all they needed to do was get a Quitclaim Deed from the title company we're using, fill in the information and give it to the title company to record and voila, DIY legal services. I've done it and they can too.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 22, 2017 17:06:15 GMT -5
Let's not forget the unspoken part of the cliché:
You can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it AND it is religiously, socially and/or culturally acceptable.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 17:14:56 GMT -5
So if they do end up doing it, it isn't really much of an accomplishment. And if they don't do it, they are really untalented. Got it. Lol, I guess that's one way of looking at it.
When I use the term it's generally in a situation where somebody thinks something is more difficult than it is. If I break it down into smaller pieces and explain how to do it, it's not really a big deal. "It's difficult but you are a capable, competent person. Let me help you accomplish this difficult task."
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 17:16:31 GMT -5
Let's not forget the unspoken part of the cliché:
You can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it AND it is religiously, socially and/or culturally acceptable.
Boo! How limiting and boring.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 22, 2017 17:17:22 GMT -5
Let's not forget the unspoken part of the cliché:
You can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it AND it is religiously, socially and/or culturally acceptable to me.
the part in red was added because reading these and other boards has me lately thinking that "freedom of Religion" is limited to the speakers' approved set of believes.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2017 17:31:26 GMT -5
So if they do end up doing it, it isn't really much of an accomplishment. And if they don't do it, they are really untalented. Got it. Lol, I guess that's one way of looking at it.
When I use the term it's generally in a situation where somebody thinks something is more difficult than it is. If I break it down into smaller pieces and explain how to do it, it's not really a big deal.
An example is when told my buyers how to deed the property into their Living Trust. They thought they would have to go to their attorney. I explained that all they needed to do was get a Quitclaim Deed from the title company we're using, fill in the information and give it to the title company to record and voila, DIY legal services. I've done it and they can too.
Weiner's Model of Achievement Attributions is interesting in regards to this discussion.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 22, 2017 17:40:10 GMT -5
Lol, I guess that's one way of looking at it.
When I use the term it's generally in a situation where somebody thinks something is more difficult than it is. If I break it down into smaller pieces and explain how to do it, it's not really a big deal. "It's difficult but you are a capable, competent person. Let me help you accomplish this difficult task." I guess I'm stuck on how I don't think it's difficult. Sometimes I think people just need to look at a problem in a different way.
But I like the positive reinforcement approach; "You are a capable, competent person". I do have to be careful about the "Let me help you" bit because so often I wind up doing the work myself!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 17:51:41 GMT -5
Nobody can be ANYTHING they want. That's just ridiculous. So, no you cannot be ANYTHING you want. However, just because you cant' be everything doesn't mean that you can't be something. You can be something that takes into account your particular abilities, desires, skill sets, etc.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 22, 2017 18:00:03 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths? Discuss. If you're a failure, identify as somebody successful. Then lobby the government to prohibit people from treating you as though you're still a failure. That's the way it works in the 21st Century.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 18:07:44 GMT -5
Sound parental advice, or one of the biggest lies told to generations of youths? Discuss. If you're a failure, identify as somebody successful. Then lobby the government to prohibit people from treating you as though you're still a failure. That's the way it works in the 21st Century.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 22, 2017 18:34:33 GMT -5
Much better to teach kids to be Their Best, not THE Best. Big difference.
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