I got whamied and outed - an update of sorts...

[Rukh O'Rorke]

If any of you remember a coworker post I made, and the consensus was to keep my mouth shut about my dissertation progress to avoid office drama...welp - I followed that advice, but I got outed.

One of my clients talked me up to one of her clients (they are in the same field) and her client contacted the boss to ask to switch to me. What can I (or the company) really do about that? There is really no avoiding it I suppose. So boss and 2 of us had a call on how to handle the situation. Boss' first idea was that I just front the consulting end of it while she continues to develop the reports, but she refused! She also refused to take clients from me to even out the workload. But she will 'help' me with some analyses. I've mentioned before boss is a push over and never calls anyone out on this type of stuff. 

So that's my whammy. More clients and work. Even if I get an equal time exchange for report development, going to have a lot of conference calls/meetings added to my plate.

Then - when we were done talking client issue, boss said lets talk about something else. I had recently emailed him to set up a meeting time to defend my dissertation proposal as my advisor has signed off on my method section and I just need to final proof and it is ready to send to committee and advisor gave me two week window for defense meeting. (Boss is on both our committees). 

So boss mentions I did date invitation - and she says "Wait....what?!?!!" and is like reeling. And then the boss wants to know what the meeting entails, etc. and what is involved, and then asks us to outline exactly where we are in out process.

So - outed.

[Green Eyed Lady]

That's what you get for listening to us.

[debthaven]

This isn't a race, even though your coworker thinks it is. If you really want to make her happy, just abandon everything, let her finish. She wins, and you keep the peace! (Yes this is sarcasm! )

I'd also tell Boss that going forward, you prefer to keep things more discreet with him because your coworker reacts badly to the fact that you are further ahead in the process.

She's basically punishing you for being ahead (and being "chosen" by her client), but your boss should be standing up for you in terms of sharing out the workload.

Have you TOLD him you need someone else to take A, B and C because you're now doing X, Y and Z? I get the feeling you're super non-confrontational and that you don't actually ever say anything, you just expect him to guess / read your mind / offer.

ETA: Or, take this opportunity to ask for a raise since you're doing more work ...

[raeoflyte]

That has to be tough day for your coworker.  I think its telling though that she wouldn't take one of your clients to even out the workload.  

[Lizard Queen]

She's probably thinking that she needs the extra time to try to catch up.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Why would anyone in this day and age care if ur a lesbian?

[teen persuasion]

Wait, why does she get to refuse?  Even if boss is a pushover, there are ways to phrase the change in duties: since client A has asked to be transferred to Rukh, let's swap client B to co-worker.  No asking.  If she objects, then give her choice of client B or C to swap, but it WILL be a swap.  No winners, no losers, just shifting due to outside forces (client is always right).

[debthaven]

Agreed Teen, but this is where I get the impression that Rukh won't stand up for herself ...

[teen persuasion]

Mar 28, 2017 10:43:11 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

She's probably thinking that she needs the extra time to try to catch up.

But if I'm reading Rukh's timeline correctly, she didn't know she was behind when she refused, twice!

It sounds like refusing out of spite.  The "help" she did offer may be more work for both of them due to meetings and such.  The need to work together rather than divide & conquer.

[janee]

Just say, "yeah, I've been working my butt off on the weekends and evenings.  I just want to be done with this.  I need my personal life back.  You, of all people, know how tough this is"

Hopefully it will help diffuse the situation.   If she really reacts badly, just say "it's not a race"

Teen persuasion is right--you needed to assume "of course, there will be a switch"

[hoops902]

Mar 28, 2017 12:13:07 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Mar 28, 2017 10:43:11 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

She's probably thinking that she needs the extra time to try to catch up.

But if I'm reading Rukh's timeline correctly, she didn't know she was behind when she refused, twice!

It sounds like refusing out of spite.  The "help" she did offer may be more work for both of them due to meetings and such.  The need to work together rather than divide & conquer.

Spite, catching up on the thesis...let's not make it complicated. She may have just refused because most people prefer to work less rather than more given a choice.  Same way that most people probably think they do more work than their peers. If you think you're overworked, and you get to offload some work...you try your best not to take on more coming back in.

From her boss's perspective it can be tricky too. If you just had a client ask to move from person A to person B...that's not a good look on person A. So now you're going to give one of your clients who is USED to working with person B over to the "inferior" person A? I'm not saying the boss doesn't need to deal with it...but for someone who won't lay down the law anyways, they're certainly not going to lay the law down with both the employee and then have that unhappy conversation with one of their clients.

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 28, 2017 12:13:07 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Mar 28, 2017 10:43:11 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

She's probably thinking that she needs the extra time to try to catch up.

But if I'm reading Rukh's timeline correctly, she didn't know she was behind when she refused, twice!

It sounds like refusing out of spite.  The "help" she did offer may be more work for both of them due to meetings and such.  The need to work together rather than divide & conquer.

Oh! Yeah, I still think she's jealous, though.

Rukh, I wouldn't even worry about trying to make her feel better about it. It's her problem. Don't diminish your own accomplishments in order to appease her ego.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

after reviewing timelines on the projects, I am definitely going to try to come out ahead on a proposed work exchange here.

I am thinking that I should send an email to the boss, something along the lines of while I know we try to be accommodating, if people keep asking for me, there is going to be a limit. 

I am thinking that there is one client I can move to her, I will propose it in an email to both when I put in my recommendations on the work exchange. If she refuses that, I want to see what the boss says. Her rationale is that it is client-centric to maintain continuity, and sensitive to this client asking for a switch to honor that by not having her do the reports.

I do want to add, it isn't that I won't stand up for myself. I have repeatedly, but this boss is very nice but not very concerned with managing people, only the projects. I've asked for raises, I've asked for promotions, he says he supports me in these and sees my worth, but isn't able to get it through. I've addressed workload issues, and he seems to not understand that some people are willing to do less work if they can.
 

When I this dissertation is finished, then I will see about another gig or rukh inc. Its hard to be too confrontational when you have no options. But I am getting down to about the final 12 months here!

I am convinced that the only way to let this boss know how much more of an asset I am than they think I am is to walk. I am soooo longing for it. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 28, 2017 12:26:38 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Mar 28, 2017 12:13:07 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

But if I'm reading Rukh's timeline correctly, she didn't know she was behind when she refused, twice!

It sounds like refusing out of spite.  The "help" she did offer may be more work for both of them due to meetings and such.  The need to work together rather than divide & conquer.

Oh! Yeah, I still think she's jealous, though.

Rukh, I wouldn't even worry about trying to make her feel better about it. It's her problem. Don't diminish your own accomplishments in order to appease her ego.

Thanks, I am completely unconcerned about that! I just don't want to deal with her not picking up the optional/volunteer tasks like last time when she knew I submitted something.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 28, 2017 12:13:07 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Mar 28, 2017 10:43:11 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

She's probably thinking that she needs the extra time to try to catch up.

But if I'm reading Rukh's timeline correctly, she didn't know she was behind when she refused, twice!

It sounds like refusing out of spite.  The "help" she did offer may be more work for both of them due to meetings and such.  The need to work together rather than divide & conquer.

I think she is just carving out more time to devote to the dissertation overall. 

I don't think it's a race, and have just been trying to do my best due to my other life circumstances. But its difficult not to notice when someone goes "Wait....What?!?!" and gets a bit agitated on a conference call with the boss. 

So - clearly - it is a race for her. 

What I may doing academically is not really any of her business, and my proposing my study is not like a surprise - but this really threw her for a loop and she involuntarily exclaimed.

Here is a funny tidbit: After the boss had us go through where we were at, I think she decided she was still ahead of me somehow by misunderstanding something I said. 

I did not clarify or correct, so not sure and whatever.

[debthaven]

In the past Rukh has posted that this coworker "keeps tabs" on Rukh's progress and gets EXTREMELY (irrationally) upset when Rukh "passes" her on their roads to their PhDs.

Rukh, I agree that it's the home stretch and that you don't have that many options (since you need the data). But, you do have some options. I think the idea of copying your boss on your suggestion of which client to transfer to your colleague is excellent, and perhaps you should do it more often.

[hoops902]

Mar 28, 2017 12:32:50 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

after reviewing timelines on the projects, I am definitely going to try to come out ahead on a proposed work exchange here.

I am thinking that I should send an email to the boss, something along the lines of while I know we try to be accommodating, if people keep asking for me, there is going to be a limit. 

I am thinking that there is one client I can move to her, I will propose it in an email to both when I put in my recommendations on the work exchange. If she refuses that, I want to see what the boss says. Her rationale is that it is client-centric to maintain continuity, and sensitive to this client asking for a switch to honor that by not having her do the reports.

I do want to add, it isn't that I won't stand up for myself. I have repeatedly, but this boss is very nice but not very concerned with managing people, only the projects. I've asked for raises, I've asked for promotions, he says he supports me in these and sees my worth, but isn't able to get it through. I've addressed workload issues, and he seems to not understand that some people are willing to do less work if they can.
 

When I this dissertation is finished, then I will see about another gig or rukh inc. Its hard to be too confrontational when you have no options. But I am getting down to about the final 12 months here!

I am convinced that the only way to let this boss know how much more of an asset I am than they think I am is to walk. I am soooo longing for it. 

Here's what I think you should do...stop worrying about "if she refuses", that's not your problem.  This seems simpler from your side if you say "my workload is full, if you want me to take on Client X, I'll need to stop working on Client A, B, or C (or just A if that's the one you want to get rid of)".  It's not your problem if she refuses...it's your boss's problem to figure out how to offload what needs to be offloaded, or to decide that you won't be taking on Client X. 

As someone who often gets heaps of work because others have fallen short on something, this was my biggest revelation once I got a manager (previously reported to about 3-4 directors, none of whom had direct supervisory authority, which meant I was juggling my own workload and tasks and trying to keep them all happy).  I only need to manage MY workload, I don't need to manage the dozen other folks who I used to take on work for or try to offload menial tasks to.  I only need to let my manager know what my constraints are, it's their problem to organize it all, not mine.  Make this your boss's problem.  You don't (or shouldn't) care how he solves it.  Give it to your coworkers, drop the account, do it himself, hire someone else, whatever...you don't have the capacity to take on a client without taking something off.  Suggest your best case scenario of what work gets taken off, and leave it there.

[hoops902]

Mar 28, 2017 12:52:07 GMT -5 debthaven said:

In the past Rukh has posted that this coworker "keeps tabs" on Rukh's progress and gets EXTREMELY (irrationally) upset when Rukh "passes" her on their roads to their PhDs.

Rukh, I agree that it's the home stretch and that you don't have that many options (since you need the data). But, you do have some options. I think the idea of copying your boss on your suggestion of which client to transfer to your colleague is excellent, and perhaps you should do it more often.

I would suggest not copying the boss...that's passive, and the boss seems incredibly passive, which means it's going to go nowhere. Email the boss (or talk directly if you can). Let him deal with the coworker. Passive bosses often just ignore the "cc".

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

As someone who often gets heaps of work because others have fallen short on something, this was my biggest revelation once I got a manager (previously reported to about 3-4 directors, none of whom had direct supervisory authority, which meant I was juggling my own workload and tasks and trying to keep them all happy). I only need to manage MY workload, I don't need to manage the dozen other folks who I used to take on work for or try to offload menial tasks to. I only need to let my manager know what my constraints are, it's their problem to organize it all, not mine. Make this your boss's problem. You don't (or shouldn't) care how he solves it

[debthaven]

I think the point in this case would be that the coworker would see Rukh is (finally?!) involving the boss ... and perhaps feel less sure of being able to give away a client and not getting another one in exchange.

But I agree, Hoops, it's unlikely to go anywhere unless Rukh pushes the issue.

ETA: For some reason I assumed this was a live conversation ... I was surprised to see it was a conference call.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 28, 2017 13:09:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

As someone who often gets heaps of work because others have fallen short on something, this was my biggest revelation once I got a manager (previously reported to about 3-4 directors, none of whom had direct supervisory authority, which meant I was juggling my own workload and tasks and trying to keep them all happy). I only need to manage MY workload, I don't need to manage the dozen other folks who I used to take on work for or try to offload menial tasks to. I only need to let my manager know what my constraints are, it's their problem to organize it all, not mine. Make this your boss's problem. You don't (or shouldn't) care how he solves it

X2

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I was just sharing the update on the low profile approach, really. Not presenting the client situation as a problem that needs resolution.

I'll endeavor to make the work exchange as rukh friendly as possible, use the opportunity to remind the boss how awesome I am, and move on.

To more awesomeness ;P

[debthaven]

One of my clients talked me up to one of her clients (they are in the same field) and her client contacted the boss to ask to switch to me. What can I (or the company) really do about that? There is really no avoiding it I suppose. ... So that's my whammy. More clients and work. 

I was just sharing the update on the low profile approach, really. Not presenting the client situation as a problem that needs resolution.

You can try to tell yourself that, but I'm not buying it.  You're pissed off because you think it's unfair. And indeed it is.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 28, 2017 16:18:06 GMT -5 debthaven said:

One of my clients talked me up to one of her clients (they are in the same field) and her client contacted the boss to ask to switch to me. What can I (or the company) really do about that? There is really no avoiding it I suppose. ... So that's my whammy. More clients and work. 

I was just sharing the update on the low profile approach, really. Not presenting the client situation as a problem that needs resolution.

You can try to tell yourself that, but I'm not buying it.  You're pissed off because you think it's unfair. And indeed it is.

Yes, but it was the background of the other thing. Im not overjoyed at more wore, or having to figure out an equitable work trade etc and getting that to fly. but I wouldn't have mentioned it as a thing on its own.

I will now have the 3 most prestigious clients in that niche field. I'm not immune to the complement. It's good to have that reputation.

[tskeeter]

Mar 28, 2017 17:24:23 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 28, 2017 16:18:06 GMT -5 debthaven said:

One of my clients talked me up to one of her clients (they are in the same field) and her client contacted the boss to ask to switch to me. What can I (or the company) really do about that? There is really no avoiding it I suppose. ... So that's my whammy. More clients and work. 

I was just sharing the update on the low profile approach, really. Not presenting the client situation as a problem that needs resolution.

You can try to tell yourself that, but I'm not buying it.  You're pissed off because you think it's unfair. And indeed it is.

Yes, but it was the background of the other thing. Im not overjoyed at more wore, or having to figure out an equitable work trade etc and getting that to fly. but I wouldn't have mentioned it as a thing on its own.

I will now have the 3 most prestigious clients in that niche field. I'm not immune to the complement. It's good to have that reputation.

Great to have the high profile clients.  But, you don't do yourself or the client any favors if you are so overloaded with projects that you can't do them well or on time.  It might be worth reminding your boss that it is better for the company if you have adequate time to devote to these high profile clients rather than having an excessive workload affect your work and lose the clients.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

A few follow up tidbits.

I put together a nice work exchange proposal and have received little comment, so I'm not quite sure if they discussed it with out me on the email or not. By nice, I mean for me .

It's a good amount of reporting plus I slipped a client exchange in there too. I only got asked a specific date for one project as a response. I begin work with the new client this week, so I'm assuming that the work exchange is a done deal and that's it as far as I'm concerned.

The other situation is just increasingly bizarre and I don't know what to even say about that. It all sounds so silly and frankly it is! I'll continue to just ignore it all and focus on my personal goals and act professionally. When I see the boss next I may suggest that he's putting a lot of pressure on her by expecting her to do everything at the same time I do it. IFF a opportunity presents itself organically. Really not worth it to me to make a big deal out of it, and that's about all I m willing to do towards telling him to not treat us like twins.

There are only 2 potential milestones/ meltdowns left anyway.

[janee]

I didn't realize the boss is thinking you both should be at similar stages. I understand a little of her panic, thinking she is behind.

Still, just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing great! 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Apr 10, 2017 10:14:11 GMT -5 janee said:

I didn't realize the boss is thinking you both should be at similar stages. I understand a little of her panic, thinking she is behind.

Still, just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing great! 

I don't think he really is, but I could see how it could be an interpretation of him bringing things up with both of us as he did on this phone call. I do recall one time he mentioned to me at work that I had caught up to and surpassed her in the program, I am wondering now if she overheard that. All I did was kind of shrug awkwardly, not knowing how to response.

While even if she had heard that, I think she is being a little juvenile about this, I do instinctively feel bad if someone else is feeling a negative emotion and I have to steel myself against feeling sorry for her and being helpful. She has been asking questions about my stuff while trying to not tell me anything about hers and when I asked her a simple format question she was like a deer in the headlights, trying hard to think of a way not to answer me. It's a question that required a one to five word answer, one option which was "I don't know", but she just sat there till I said I saw so-and-sos and they did X, and she then she confirmed.

So I was like, OK, I guess that is where we are at. I had some extensive sample materials and after that I was just not going to mention it to her - but in the end I couldn't do it, I offered to share and she was very interested in it so I did. There are two more points coming up where the boss is involved, and as is apparent he is a little too free with info about other people and oblivious to any issues that may cause. I can't control what may get said, so I've let go of thinking I can keep that private.

Once those two points are passed, I will go radio silence until I'm finished and just need to defend (that is a public announcement at the university). I will work furiously everyday in my own personal bubble and say nothing to anybody ever! 

Except maybe you lot (and my kids)!!

Prepare for the onslaught of moaning, crabbing, self-doubt, euphoria, and ennui! 

[Works4me]

I don't mean to be rude but you are not responsible for her - her project and her progress are really none of your business. Just like you were able to find the sample materials so was she. Why must you make it easier for her? Isn't part of what a dissertation proves is your own ability to perform research and figure things out?

Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it. I am so totally impressed with your progress and with the way you just keep going and going, like the Energizer bunny. You can and will succeed at this!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

It was a sample from a previous graduate who generously shared not something to be found online or anything. I asked permission from them before sharing, of course.

I didn't want to be petty so I shared. I've benefited from a lot of sharing of others work. We aren't looking for material in the usual sense, but just relative proportions of how much theory vs empirical evidence, vs critiques, and what level of detail regarding methods, assumptions of methods, etc.