billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 10:45:46 GMT -5
I don't doubt that he "means" to do well. The question in my mind is if he is capable of doing well. That depends on what you mean by the question. Of course Donald Trump has the capability to do well- very well. The question is can he simultaneously drain the swamp, and accomplish what needs to happen while wading through the swamp? A lot of things are lining up which lead me to believe he's going to be successful. The wheels of justice turn slowly-- keep an eye on Comey and company. I still think they're in deep shit. And when said excrement hits the proverbial fan-- it will be a thunderous shot across the bow to the rest of the political establishment: do the will of the people, or their champion will destroy you. What will things look like when "the will of the people" is done?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 28, 2017 10:47:35 GMT -5
If it were truly the will of the people, Donald Trump would not be in office.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 28, 2017 10:49:59 GMT -5
I don't doubt that he "means" to do well. The question in my mind is if he is capable of doing well. That depends on what you mean by the question. Of course Donald Trump has the capability to do well- very well. The question is can he simultaneously drain the swamp, and accomplish what needs to happen while wading through the swamp? A lot of things are lining up which lead me to believe he's going to be successful. The wheels of justice turn slowly-- keep an eye on Comey and company. I still think they're in deep shit. And when said excrement hits the proverbial fan-- it will be a thunderous shot across the bow to the rest of the political establishment: do the will of the people, or their champion will destroy you. Wow, you think a lot of things are lining up for success? From my perspective it looks like he doesn't have a clue and everything is really fucked up. Was the travel ban getting killed by the courts and creating protests across the country part of his grand plan as well? What was the long term scheme in that? I would really love to hear how you think it is some well thought out grand plan of trumps.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 28, 2017 10:54:29 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 28, 2017 10:58:25 GMT -5
and let's be clear: this was utterly, 100%, predictable.
the 55% that did NOT vote for this clown told the 45% that did so.
you just didn't fucking listen. and now, you have to live with it.
unfortunately, so do we.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 11:06:17 GMT -5
... Was the travel ban getting killed by the courts and creating protests across the country part of his grand plan as well? What was the long term scheme in that? I would really love to hear how you think it is some well thought out grand plan of trumps. The overturning of the travel ban was designed to destroy trust in the Judicial Branch. The failed repeal and replace of Obamacare was designed to destroy trust in the Legislative Branch. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the Executive Branch outside of the military and the White House. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the news reporting part of media. Who is left standing? It is a formula which has worked well over history.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 28, 2017 11:22:37 GMT -5
The healthcare bill failed because it was a bad bill and the person trying to sell the bill (Trump) didn't understand it.
And to be honest, this process just highlighted how Trump's lack of interest and attention to detail is going to hurt his agenda. Trump, like most president's, is the best salesperson that the GOP has. But, the problem that the GOP and Trump have is that selling a policy is far more difficult than making sweeping conceptual promises.
But, then i also think governing is far more difficult than campaigning. Something that Trump is discovering now and the American people are going to discover over the next few years.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 28, 2017 11:32:46 GMT -5
... Was the travel ban getting killed by the courts and creating protests across the country part of his grand plan as well? What was the long term scheme in that? I would really love to hear how you think it is some well thought out grand plan of trumps. The overturning of the travel ban was designed to destroy trust in the Judicial Branch. The failed repeal and replace of Obamacare was designed to destroy trust in the Legislative Branch. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the Executive Branch outside of the military and the White House. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the news reporting part of media. Who is left standing? It is a formula which has worked well over history. good point, bills. terrifying, but good.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 28, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -5
... Was the travel ban getting killed by the courts and creating protests across the country part of his grand plan as well? What was the long term scheme in that? I would really love to hear how you think it is some well thought out grand plan of trumps. The overturning of the travel ban was designed to destroy trust in the Judicial Branch. The failed repeal and replace of Obamacare was designed to destroy trust in the Legislative Branch. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the Executive Branch outside of the military and the White House. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the news reporting part of media. Who is left standing? It is a formula which has worked well over history. Good theory. I think he needs a much larger portion of the population to buy this for it to work (thankfully). Right now he has his base and I think he is slowly losing some of them. How many have turned on Trump after realizing that healthcare reform meant they would lose their Medicaid or subsidies?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 28, 2017 12:01:16 GMT -5
LMAO!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 12:22:01 GMT -5
The overturning of the travel ban was designed to destroy trust in the Judicial Branch. The failed repeal and replace of Obamacare was designed to destroy trust in the Legislative Branch. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the Executive Branch outside of the military and the White House. There is an ongoing effort to destroy trust in the news reporting part of media. Who is left standing? It is a formula which has worked well over history. Good theory. I think he needs a much larger portion of the population to buy this for it to work (thankfully). Right now he has his base and I think he is slowly losing some of them. How many have turned on Trump after realizing that healthcare reform meant they would lose their Medicaid or subsidies? Maybe. Here is a way he doesn't need that many people. Over the next year and a bit, he offers things that are rejected and continues to push distrust. Supporters run in GOP primaries in safe districts in which the incumbent hasn't caved. Small turnout helps them win primary which is the de facto general election win in many areas. Senate seats might be a little tougher but still doable. That gives him a rubber stamp legislative branch. He is cultivating military back up. Judiciary has no power to enforce rulings. Corporate America certainly won't be a force to stop him. A few rebel state governments wouldn't stand much of a chance if they openly revolt.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 28, 2017 12:34:30 GMT -5
Good theory. I think he needs a much larger portion of the population to buy this for it to work (thankfully). Right now he has his base and I think he is slowly losing some of them. How many have turned on Trump after realizing that healthcare reform meant they would lose their Medicaid or subsidies? Maybe. Here is a way he doesn't need that many people. Over the next year and a bit, he offers things that are rejected and continues to push distrust. Supporters run in GOP primaries in safe districts in which the incumbent hasn't caved. Small turnout helps them win primary which is the de facto general election win in many areas. Senate seats might be a little tougher but still doable. That gives him a rubber stamp legislative branch. He is cultivating military back up. Judiciary has no power to enforce rulings. Corporate America certainly won't be a force to stop him. A few rebel state governments wouldn't stand much of a chance if they openly revolt. Well that's scary.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 12:48:38 GMT -5
Maybe. Here is a way he doesn't need that many people. Over the next year and a bit, he offers things that are rejected and continues to push distrust. Supporters run in GOP primaries in safe districts in which the incumbent hasn't caved. Small turnout helps them win primary which is the de facto general election win in many areas. Senate seats might be a little tougher but still doable. That gives him a rubber stamp legislative branch. He is cultivating military back up. Judiciary has no power to enforce rulings. Corporate America certainly won't be a force to stop him. A few rebel state governments wouldn't stand much of a chance if they openly revolt. Well that's scary. Dang. I keep hoping someone will talk me down off this ledge. I keep asking AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP to provide a glimpse into where all this wonderful Trump winning is taking us but so far nothing.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Mar 28, 2017 12:53:07 GMT -5
Good theory. I think he needs a much larger portion of the population to buy this for it to work (thankfully). Right now he has his base and I think he is slowly losing some of them. How many have turned on Trump after realizing that healthcare reform meant they would lose their Medicaid or subsidies? Maybe. Here is a way he doesn't need that many people. Over the next year and a bit, he offers things that are rejected and continues to push distrust. Supporters run in GOP primaries in safe districts in which the incumbent hasn't caved. Small turnout helps them win primary which is the de facto general election win in many areas. Senate seats might be a little tougher but still doable. That gives him a rubber stamp legislative branch. He is cultivating military back up. Judiciary has no power to enforce rulings. Corporate America certainly won't be a force to stop him. A few rebel state governments wouldn't stand much of a chance if they openly revolt. Pretty much where I'm at.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 28, 2017 13:35:45 GMT -5
Phew. I'm glad he explained what happened with the ObamaCare repeal. I thought it was a massive failure of the legislative process by the majority party in the House of Representatives and also a failure in governance and leadership by the Executive Branch. Silly me. Who knew it was an amazing and wonderful victory? and they're going to try again. Slate and politico are both reporting on a GOP press conference this morning that the GOP is gearing up to either try again or get a vote on that bill.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 28, 2017 14:07:46 GMT -5
Putin got exactly what he wanted. A rudderless, leaderless American government. He's laughing. Da! OMG! WOULD YOU GET OVER IT ALREADY! SHE LOST!!! ROTFLMAO! So, every time The Donald fucks up, you're going to scream at me about Hillary? Sounds like a plan.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 28, 2017 14:18:39 GMT -5
Dang. I keep hoping someone will talk me down off this ledge. I keep asking AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP to provide a glimpse into where all this wonderful Trump winning is taking us but so far nothing. I notice he also didn't answer my question as to how he would fix healthcare. That's why I'm tired of republicans. 7 years of bitching and talking of repeal. They finally get their day in the sun and they've got nothing. No plan, no consensus, just vague ideas of something better than Obamacare. I don't consider myself a democrat. Obamacare isn't perfect. But, you can't just bitch and moan without also putting forth solutions. If you can't come up with something better or improvements, then shut the fuck up. At least democrats worked together and came up with something and managed to pass it. 7 years and republicans don't have a plan that can get through a solid republican majority. Paul may think it is part of some grand plan, but I just see a bunch of people that are better at whining than fixing.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 28, 2017 14:49:35 GMT -5
Because most of those don't really sell well.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 15:01:30 GMT -5
Maybe. Here is a way he doesn't need that many people. Over the next year and a bit, he offers things that are rejected and continues to push distrust. Supporters run in GOP primaries in safe districts in which the incumbent hasn't caved. Small turnout helps them win primary which is the de facto general election win in many areas. Senate seats might be a little tougher but still doable. That gives him a rubber stamp legislative branch. He is cultivating military back up. Judiciary has no power to enforce rulings. Corporate America certainly won't be a force to stop him. A few rebel state governments wouldn't stand much of a chance if they openly revolt. I agree with your first theorem, which I don't believe will copy in this quoted text. It is relatively easy, unfortunately, for trust in the institutions to be cratered. I especially agree that it is a thing, because it is Bannon's openly stated goal to marginalize and cripple the government. I'm just not sure quite how much sway he, and that mindset, have in the Admin. I don't think that your second theorem, quoted above, is so easily advanced. First of all, I don't think that the Senate is really "doable". I also think that there will be more opposition in the House, as those people primarily want to keep their jobs. While corporate America is no foe to him I would bet all that I hold that he cannot corrupt the military. (that is, should he even try) I also don't think that is the agenda. I can see Bannon's- marginalize the government, emasculate the Feds. Hell, quite a few on the right want that, and some on the left. I don't see dictatorship as being Trump's goal. Of course, I sure as hell didn't see him as President either. I don't think that "Dictatorship" is the goal of President Trump. I am much less sure about his mindset about whether, as Chief Executive, he shouldn't be able to dictate policy. Corrupting the military or neutralizing it is something to weigh. Could we count on the military to step in to enforce a Supreme Court ruling if President Trump defies it? It would be a twist of Little Rock, but how might that of played out differently if the president hadn't been a former war general. If a significant number of Trump supporters are elected to the House after defeating incumbents in primaries, I see many of those who remain falling in line with the idea of keeping their jobs. I do hope you are right about the Senate. I have a long standing concern about the strengthening of the Imperial Presidency we have seen over the past years. I see the Trump Administration potentially overdosing on steroids.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 28, 2017 15:37:54 GMT -5
Yes, I certainly agree with you there. Not a trend that is easy, or maybe even possible to reverse. Yeah, I don't see a Congress willing to risk taking responsibility for tough decisions.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 28, 2017 18:22:42 GMT -5
Some of them do. Nobody likes to be "regulated". Who likes OSHA? Nobody likes taxes. Wrong. the 51% love taxes. How would they survive without someone paying their way? It would be a third world Somalia without taxes to support them.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 28, 2017 20:02:17 GMT -5
I'm not talking about Clinton at all, I wasn't that crazy about her because she did not understand who the democratic party represented anymore and lost them. So you are way off on that one.
You should read one of the news stories today by USA Today, they outlined all the connections of Trump and family to Russian gangsters and mafia.
In 2015 Trumps casino in Nevada was fined $15 million dollars for suspicious activities connected with money laundering, where was all this stuff when he was running?
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