looking for morality in all the wrong places

[swamp]

A part time cop and Investigator from the DA's office and a firefighter/EMT were driving along at 1:30 a.m. and hit an 18 year old pedestrian walking home from his job at Burger King.     They took off.   The strippers out for a smoke break are the ones that went to help the guy.

Usually cops and firefighters are the good guys.  What a bunch of douches.  You can get more details on the story at Syracuse.com. 

cnycentral.com/news/local/strippers-were-first-to-help-after-syracuse-hit-and-run-crash

[busymom]

My first thought is, MAYBE the kid would've survived if they'd stopped to help.


My second thought is, just how drunk (or whatever) were they?


(How sad for the young man's family.)  

[swamp]

Mar 25, 2017 13:58:23 GMT -5 busymom said:

My first thought is, MAYBE the kid would've survived if they'd stopped to help.


My second thought is, just how drunk (or whatever) were they?


(How sad for the young man's family.)  

The guy was drunk enough to leave his car at a bar about a block away, with his cell phone, badge, and wallet in it.     They found him at his mom's house in the suburbs the next morning. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Why does anyone think a cop or an EMT are more moral than the next person?

It is along the same lines as when my sister was looking for a divorce lawyer and she wanted a Christian one.  I talked her out of that one.  Morality is not described by religion or profession, but how one lives their WHOLE life.

[Rob Base 2.0]

It's unfortunate. It's hard to overcome human nature.

Even those that are supposed to set and enforce the example.

[Bonny]

Mar 25, 2017 14:17:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Why does anyone think a cop or an EMT are more moral than the next person?

It is along the same lines as when my sister was looking for a divorce lawyer and she wanted a Christian one.  I talked her out of that one.  Morality is not described by religion or profession, but how one lives their WHOLE life.

Because they have both the skill set and training to deal with a situation like this.

I can see a teenager being frightened and stupid and running away.

I hope all of them lose their jobs.

[Deleted]

I'm sure they'll lose more than their jobs.  As trained emergency personnel I would think they would be subject to harsher penalties for leaving the scene of a fatal accident.

[Gardening Grandma]

.And this cop is accused of starving his pit bull and then dumping her at a city park in a trash bag. 

www.cbsnews.com/news/philadelphia-police-officer-accused-of-dumping-emaciated-dog-in-trash-bag-at-city-park/

[Bonny]

Mar 25, 2017 18:32:16 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm sure they'll lose more than their jobs.  As trained emergency personnel I would think they would be subject to harsher penalties for leaving the scene of a fatal accident.

While using a government vehicle, no less! There will be criminal charges I'm sure.

Sure hope swamp doesn't get stuck representing them!

[swamp]

Mar 25, 2017 18:36:00 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Mar 25, 2017 18:32:16 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm sure they'll lose more than their jobs.  As trained emergency personnel I would think they would be subject to harsher penalties for leaving the scene of a fatal accident.

While using a government vehicle, no less! There will be criminal charges I'm sure.

Sure hope swamp doesn't get stuck representing them!

No.  I'm not big name enough for that. 

[Deleted]

Regardless of profession every single human being has a breaking point, it just varies by person how much pressure it takes to get there.

It's wrong they left and I'm sure every single one of us commenting on this thread would say we would stay in such a scenario if we were driving, but I guarantee that wouldn't be the case.

www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/3452699/

"These crashes have reached such epidemic proportions in Los Angeles that, during one recent year, nearly half of all collisions in the city involved a driver who fled the scene."


"Los Angeles has been ground zero for hit-and-run crashes. LA Weekly reported that there were 20,000 such incidents in the city each year, with 4,000 resulting in injuries or death. In 2009, the newspaper reported, 48% of the city's crashes were hit-and-run, compared with 11% nationally."

[Virgil Showlion]

Not just in LA.

My dad, riding his motorcycle, got wiped out by a truck turning left on a red a few years back. Guy sped off like a spooked squirrel. Fortunately no serious injuries.

[swamp]

Mar 25, 2017 14:17:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Why does anyone think a cop or an EMT are more moral than the next person?

It is along the same lines as when my sister was looking for a divorce lawyer and she wanted a Christian one.  I talked her out of that one.  Morality is not described by religion or profession, but how one lives their WHOLE life.

I think  I named the thread wrong.    How  about looking for help in all the wrong places 

[tallguy]

Well, it's a good thing you didn't name it "Lookin' for love in all the wrong places."  That's probably copyrighted.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 25, 2017 18:32:16 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm sure they'll lose more than their jobs.  As trained emergency personnel I would think they would be subject to harsher penalties for leaving the scene of a fatal accident.

Hete. Firefighters and police are sworn in. The oath includes stopping to help any time, even off duty.

We fire, eventually, for this kind of thing. No felonies because people have GOT to trust letting us into their homes.

[Phoenix84]

Mar 25, 2017 14:17:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Why does anyone think a cop or an EMT are more moral than the next person?

It is along the same lines as when my sister was looking for a divorce lawyer and she wanted a Christian one.  I talked her out of that one.  Morality is not described by religion or profession, but how one lives their WHOLE life.

I don't think morality enters into it, it's a matter of responsibility and professionalism. I expect more from cops, EMTs, and fire fighters as far as following and upholding the law, because they're public officials. Furthermore, they have the training, presumably, to render aide in these kinds of situations, and presumably the ability to work under pressure.

A member of the general public (then being strippers is irrelevant) did exactly what I'd expect of any Good Samaritan, call for help.

[Phoenix84]

I know it's comforting to get on our high horse and say we would stay and render aide, but as AJ said, the statistics don't bear this out. Hit and runs are pretty common.

I wonder, how many of us, when the chips are down, would stay? Especially in the case of serious injury or death. It's probably easier than you think to panic and run. It is, after all a natural reaction to fear, fight or flight and all that.

I'm not saying it isn't wrong to run, it is, but I think we should acknowledge that we don't know for sure what we would do until we're in that situation.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Morality isn't determined by the job you perform or the beliefs you hold. It's determined by the type of person you are. You could walk yourself through any occupation (or lack thereof) that exists and you will find people who won't make the right choices. One would like to think that a person charged with the safety of the public might act in a more moral manner than one who does not, but that's not the way it is all the time.

Examine yourself here. You are out on the town at 1:30 a.m. Chances are you aren't sober. Yes. This is your own fault and nobody else's fault.  You hold a job where breaking the law is probably going to mean termination. If you stop, you will lose your job. You will also probably spend some time in jail or prison. Everything you have worked for all your life is gone in a second. Do you stop? Or do you make a panicked split-second decision - probably with the help of some intoxicant - and leave the scene?

I'm pretty confident I'd stop anyway but I don't know that for sure.  It helps that I'm also pretty confident I'd never find myself in that situation, but one never knows. Of course it's wrong  to drive off. That isn't even a question here. Good people do wrong things sometimes.  The instinct to save one's own skin is strong.  Of course what these men did was dead wrong.  They should be punished severely.  They killed someone or at least tried to cover up killing someone,

I'm sort of put off by the "See!  The strippers did the right thing and the "moral" people didn't!"  Yeah.  Pretty easy decision to make when you have nothing to lose. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Human beings judge people, we're programmed to make snap decisions because we'd be eaten/freeze to death/starve to death if we sat around and analyzed everything to the tinniest detail.

One of the ways we judge people is by the type of job they do.   It happens on here all the time, we just had an entire thread about job snobbery.

Doesn't make it right but that's what we do.   That's how people can get away with some pretty serious crimes because we don't believe those type of people are capable of doing those things.   We have a mental image in our head of the types of people that do those things and it isn't your vaunted neighborhood pediatrician or the football star, or the leader of a youth program, or your priest.

It's the same thing here.   These are people who have been trained to stop and assist.   They didn't.    It's quite jarring when someone does not live up to the mental image you had in your head of an EMT or a policeman.

It's the same thing with the surprise about the stripper calling for help.   We have a mental image in our heads of what type of person a stripper is.

We're also hard wired to form an opinion first and then look for rational to adjust it.   The idea of someone committing a hit and run is offensive to us.  So our brain starts making up reasons for why we would NEVER do that in a similar situation even though we don't actually know what we would do.   We don't even realize we are doing it the majority of the time, that's how deep it goes.

No none of it is right but thinking it doesn't make us bad people, it just makes us human.

[swamp]

I'm just amazed at the string of dumb decisions made by the cop/investigator.

37 years old, out and presumably driving drunk in a work car. Usually sober people stop.   

Hits a guy and takes off.

Ditches his car a block away and leaves his badge and cell phone in the car.

Goes to mommy's house.

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2017 8:50:34 GMT -5 swamp said:

I'm just amazed at the string of dumb decisions made by the cop/investigator.

37 years old, out and presumably driving drunk in a work car. Usually sober people stop.   

Hits a guy and takes off.

Ditches his car a block away and leaves his badge and cell phone in the car.

Goes to mommy's house.

OMG

[swamp]

www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2017/03/firefighter_at_scene_of_fatal_crash_was_charged_last_year_with_his_own_hit-and-r.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Here's a good recap of the situation.

[WholeLottaNothin]

This hits a little too close to home, in more ways than one.

I feel for the victim's family.

At 37 years old you should definitely know better, and know that you will get caught eventually, though I'm sure the alcohol involved impaired thinking clearly.  The police here said that a lot of times the way people get caught is when they go to have their car repaired, like in the link above.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Swamp....any ideas on how they got from here to there on this one?  How in the world did they get to a parking violation from those other charges?  He parked against the house illegally?

Ackerman was charged with two violations -- leaving the scene of a property damage accident and driving across a hazard marking.

He pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of a parking violation and paid a fine of $175, according to Onondaga Town Court records.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 28, 2017 11:09:44 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Swamp....any ideas on how they got from here to there on this one?  How in the world did they get to a parking violation from those other charges?  He parked against the house illegally?

Ackerman was charged with two violations -- leaving the scene of a property damage accident and driving across a hazard marking.

He pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of a parking violation and paid a fine of $175, according to Onondaga Town Court records.

There were 2 incidents where he left the scene of an accident.  This was the first incident he was charged with a couple years ago.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I know that. My question was how charges got reduced to a parking violation the first time. That's a leap from leaving the scene of a pd accident and driving across a hazard marking.  I know about lesser-included offenses but really?  A parking violation?

[swamp]

Common vehicle and traffic reduction.  
If your record ia clear you get one.  Leaving the scene of a property damage accident is a 3 point ticket.  It's like a,speeding ticket. Not a big deal. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Mar 28, 2017 14:40:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Common vehicle and traffic reduction.  
If your record ia clear you get one.  Leaving the scene of a property damage accident is a 3 point ticket.  It's like a,speeding ticket. Not a big deal. 

I see. Thanks. I know nothing about traffic stuff.

[OldCoyote]

Here in AZ Hit and Run is a big deal,

You kill some one, you are headed for manslaughter!!

But, because they are honorable public servants,,,, maybe get out of jail free cards!