emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 9, 2017 13:38:00 GMT -5
I just think that a possible addiction is way worse than living with some discomfort for awhile - whether it be physical or emotional.Let me ask you this, and I do not mean it snarkily. Have you ever been in long term, chronic discomfort? I am and have been since Dec 2011. It is so horribly wearing that I can wrap my brain around the reasons why one would choose to self medicate. I choose not to and would not ever (I think), but I understand it. My discomfort is physical and after awhile it does have a psychological/emotional impact. And let me tell you, it sucks batshit off cave walls. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. My cousin is a former heroin addict. She took heroin from the time she was 15 until she was in mid-20's. She took it through two pregnancies. Her mother died when she was 14, and she was also bi-polar and wasn't diagnosed until she was trying to get clean. Luckily, she lives in a place with free healthcare, so she got to go to a methadone clinic when she was ready, and she got the mental health treatment she desperately needed. Even now 20 year years later, she's fucked up beyond belief, and struggles with the bi-polar. It's a miracle she hasn't started using again (although her heroin usage during her second pregnancy almost killed her daughter, so I think that is her motivation to stay clean). For some people the physical or mental pain isn't just some discomfort, it's a level of horrendous pain that I don't think many of us can begin to even imagine. I think people become addicts for all different reasons (so those aren't the only reasons of course), but if you combine that type of pain with an addictive personality it's not a surprise that someone becomes an addict.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Mar 9, 2017 13:59:52 GMT -5
NomoreDramaQ1015 , I don't know if you've seen this: Humira SiteAbbVie does have a cost reduction program for this drug. It might be worth looking into if you haven't already done so. We've seen it. DH is not sure he wants to take Humira. Otzela has the same thing that's why we have a crap load of 30 day supplies in our house right now. At first he didn't like the side effect so he stopped taking it. Things have been getting worse recently so he decided to try it again. I've told him he needs to call the dermatology office again, they left a message regarding insurance but he never called them back. It was just interesting to realize we could score cocaine faster and easier than we've been able to obtain an on the market legally approved medication. If DH does ever decide to try Humira (adalimumab), I think Amgevita is a biosimilar that has been recently approved. Might be worth asking about. Alternatively, Remicade (infliximab) is another anti-TNF drug (same mechanism of action as Humira). It also has a biosimilar, Inflectra. Good luck! (I don't know anything about psoriatic arthritis, but it looks like the drugs targeting it have a lot of overlap with IBD [inflammatory bowel disease] which is an area that I'm working in right now.)
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Mar 9, 2017 14:09:03 GMT -5
We've seen it. DH is not sure he wants to take Humira. Otzela has the same thing that's why we have a crap load of 30 day supplies in our house right now. At first he didn't like the side effect so he stopped taking it. Things have been getting worse recently so he decided to try it again. I've told him he needs to call the dermatology office again, they left a message regarding insurance but he never called them back. It was just interesting to realize we could score cocaine faster and easier than we've been able to obtain an on the market legally approved medication. If DH does ever decide to try Humira (adalimumab), I think Amgevita is a biosimilar that has been recently approved. Might be worth asking about. Alternatively, Remicade (infliximab) is another anti-TNF drug (same mechanism of action as Humira). It also has a biosimilar, Inflectra. Good luck! (I don't know anything about psoriatic arthritis, but it looks like the drugs targeting it have a lot of overlap with IBD [inflammatory bowel disease] which is an area that I'm working in right now.) Not that any of them really help with the side effect problem, because they're all immunosuppressive. (Also makes me wonder about whether anti-integrins - vedolizumab/Entyvio - are indicated in psoriasis or not. It's the newest thing in IBD.)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 9, 2017 14:23:38 GMT -5
If DH does ever decide to try Humira (adalimumab), I think Amgevita is a biosimilar that has been recently approved. Might be worth asking about. Alternatively, Remicade (infliximab) is another anti-TNF drug (same mechanism of action as Humira). It also has a biosimilar, Inflectra. Good luck! (I don't know anything about psoriatic arthritis, but it looks like the drugs targeting it have a lot of overlap with IBD [inflammatory bowel disease] which is an area that I'm working in right now.) Not that any of them really help with the side effect problem, because they're all immunosuppressive. (Also makes me wonder about whether anti-integrins - vedolizumab/Entyvio - are indicated in psoriasis or not. It's the newest thing in IBD.) Yeah. That's part of what DH has been weighing. If it was just us then he wouldn't be so worried about but since we have children and they tend to be zombie plague carriers there is a bigger risk of him contracting something. It was scary when he got that respitory infection while on methotrexate. He didn't tell me it had gotten to 105 till AFTER it broke. He saw the doctor the next afternoon and the doctor said that if it had not broken they would have admitted him. Psorasis may not look good but at least it won't land him in the hospital. He's also been weighing if he wants clear skin at the potential expense of his liver.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2017 14:30:15 GMT -5
I just think that a possible addiction is way worse than living with some discomfort for awhile - whether it be physical or emotional.Let me ask you this, and I do not mean it snarkily. Have you ever been in long term, chronic discomfort? I am and have been since Dec 2011. It is so horribly wearing that I can wrap my brain around the reasons why one would choose to self medicate. I choose not to and would not ever (I think), but I understand it. My discomfort is physical and after awhile it does have a psychological/emotional impact. And let me tell you, it sucks batshit off cave walls. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Yes. I have. And still am. It does suck something awful. No way do I add an addiction on to that. That's swapping one pain for another and it makes no sense whatsoever. I'll get through it. Before anybody jumps on the "so you think everyone else is a big wuss"...no. I don't. I think everyone has different levels they can tolerate and honestly, it's more a case of just something I'm used to. So when I have a good day, it is damn good!
I can understand, too. I've been tempted, believe me. I suppose it helps that anything I tried years ago made me sick as heck and messed up my digestive track horribly. I'm not going to take a pill to fix what the first pill did and then have to take a pill to fix that. It doesn't even make sense to me. I'll live with it. And yes. It makes me a total bitch sometimes. That's life. I wouldn't wish it on anybody either. I'm not, however, unable to function. If that happens, obviously I'll rethink it. Until then, I'm good because, hopefully, it's something that will ease.
There are things I can do that help. Like exercise. The problem with that is that sometimes it just hurts too dang badly to want to do anything to make it worse. I keep my weight down. I've never had an issue with being overweight but even 10 pounds can aggravate my condition. I used to take a lot of ibuprofen. That has some serious possible side effects in and of itself if abused. It's not just prescription stuff that can harm you. I try to eat the foods that have natural anti-inflammatory properties.
I'm sorry you hurt all the time. You already know that affects you emotionally as well as physically. I hope you can find some relief at some point.
I don't hurt all the time. I'm not comfortable all the time. It doesn't matter if I sit, stand or lie down. If I do something out of the ordinary, I do wind up in pain though. To make matters worse, this isn't the sort of thing where I can walk 3 blocks today, be in pain and then be able to walk those same 3 blocks pain free the next time. I hit a wall, and pushing through it does not help. I asked my surgeon about it and he strongly suggested that I pay attention to the wall, that that pain means I am stressing the joint too much and the joint may not hold. I don't have a lot of bone holding it in place. So I listen to it. The last time I pushed through the wall was when we were in Dubai and I was visiting the gold souks. I paid for it that night. That was stupid of me, and it didn't help that I was afraid to bring a few narcotics with me due to where we were.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2017 14:35:35 GMT -5
Not that any of them really help with the side effect problem, because they're all immunosuppressive. (Also makes me wonder about whether anti-integrins - vedolizumab/Entyvio - are indicated in psoriasis or not. It's the newest thing in IBD.) Yeah. That's part of what DH has been weighing. If it was just us then he wouldn't be so worried about but since we have children and they tend to be zombie plague carriers there is a bigger risk of him contracting something. It was scary when he got that respitory infection while on methotrexate. He didn't tell me it had gotten to 105 till AFTER it broke. He saw the doctor the next afternoon and the doctor said that if it had not broken they would have admitted him. Psorasis may not look good but at least it won't land him in the hospital. He's also been weighing if he wants clear skin at the potential expense of his liver. Topical meds don't help? The bigger issue though is that his immune system is destroying his knee joint too. The skin is only the visible manifestation of psoriatic arthritis. You are correct though, your little disease vectors don't help.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 9, 2017 14:35:51 GMT -5
Here is where you lose me again....how in the world can you compare having a glass of wine to taking heroin? I get hwat you are saying I think (that we all have our coping mechanisms) but for anyone to put heroin on the same level as wine or cocktails just blows my mind.
For anyone that thinks alcohol is on the same par as heroin, would you want to sit around and shoot heroin with your friends, family or children (assuming over age 21)? Is the only thing stopping you the fact that it isn't socially acceptable? Because I will gladly sit and have some drinks with my daughter when she is of age....I sure as hell wouldn't sit and do heroin with her!
Where ever did I say that? I said that alcohol CAN be as destructive as heroin. And it can be. Swamp gave you the data so you now have cold hard numbers. There is absolutely NOTHING in what I have written that compares having a glass of wine to taking heroin. Well...obesity related deaths were 300,000....so I guess obesity is a lot more destructive than heroin. It is easy to make that conclusion when you talk in absolute numbers....
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 9, 2017 14:39:16 GMT -5
I will never understand why an insurance company can decide that your own personal physician doesn't know what's best for you. To be fair, the insurance company isn't saying you can't get the medicine. They are saying they won't pay for it. Each year we are given a formulary for our insurance plan. I was prescribed something not covered by my plan. I had the option of paying out of pocket for it. I have also taken my youngest for lots of therapies not covered by our insurance plan. I paid out of pocket. The insurance company doesn't dictate healthcare. They just decide what they will pay for.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Mar 9, 2017 14:41:08 GMT -5
Yeah. That's part of what DH has been weighing. If it was just us then he wouldn't be so worried about but since we have children and they tend to be zombie plague carriers there is a bigger risk of him contracting something. It was scary when he got that respitory infection while on methotrexate. He didn't tell me it had gotten to 105 till AFTER it broke. He saw the doctor the next afternoon and the doctor said that if it had not broken they would have admitted him. Psorasis may not look good but at least it won't land him in the hospital. He's also been weighing if he wants clear skin at the potential expense of his liver. Topical meds don't help? The bigger issue though is that his immune system is destroying his knee joint too. The skin is only the visible manifestation of psoriatic arthritis. You are correct though, your little disease vectors don't help. Disease vector is exactly what I call my kids too! (when it's relevant)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 9, 2017 14:47:38 GMT -5
Yeah. That's part of what DH has been weighing. If it was just us then he wouldn't be so worried about but since we have children and they tend to be zombie plague carriers there is a bigger risk of him contracting something. It was scary when he got that respitory infection while on methotrexate. He didn't tell me it had gotten to 105 till AFTER it broke. He saw the doctor the next afternoon and the doctor said that if it had not broken they would have admitted him. Psorasis may not look good but at least it won't land him in the hospital. He's also been weighing if he wants clear skin at the potential expense of his liver. Topical meds don't help? The bigger issue though is that his immune system is destroying his knee joint too. The skin is only the visible manifestation of psoriatic arthritis. You are correct though, your little disease vectors don't help. They do but there are getting to be so many spots and the spots are also getting bigger that he's going to have to take a shower in his topical steroid. It's his joints that are the bigger concern, he can't let them go/ignore them forever. That's why he's giving Otzela a try again. While there is still the possibility of infection it doesn't come with the mandatory liver monitoring. It's an impressive drug he's only been back on it for about a week and I'd say we've seen about 80% improvement. We need to get back on fighting our prescription insurance about it or finding another way to afford it. It ain't cheap.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 9, 2017 14:53:35 GMT -5
I did a quick google for Otezla....>$900 for 27 tablets? Ouch!
Have you tried contacting the company?
ETA: I looked what it is in Canada, $1200 for 56 tabs. About 30% less.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 9, 2017 14:57:06 GMT -5
I did a quick google for Otezla....>$900 for 27 tablets? Ouch! Have you tried contacting the company? That's who was sending the supply we have right now while the dermatologist was battling with our insurance. DH stopped taking it because he didn't like one of it's main side effects so we have at least six months worth if not more floating around the house right now. The question is what do we do when that runs out. I've been encouraging him to get back in contact with his dermatologist and to call the company.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Mar 9, 2017 14:58:13 GMT -5
Yes. I have. And still am. It does suck something awful. No way do I add an addiction on to that. That's swapping one pain for another and it makes no sense whatsoever. I'll get through it. Before anybody jumps on the "so you think everyone else is a big wuss"...no. I don't. I think everyone has different levels they can tolerate and honestly, it's more a case of just something I'm used to. So when I have a good day, it is damn good!
I can understand, too. I've been tempted, believe me. I suppose it helps that anything I tried years ago made me sick as heck and messed up my digestive track horribly. I'm not going to take a pill to fix what the first pill did and then have to take a pill to fix that. It doesn't even make sense to me. I'll live with it. And yes. It makes me a total bitch sometimes. That's life. I wouldn't wish it on anybody either. I'm not, however, unable to function. If that happens, obviously I'll rethink it. Until then, I'm good because, hopefully, it's something that will ease.
There are things I can do that help. Like exercise. The problem with that is that sometimes it just hurts too dang badly to want to do anything to make it worse. I keep my weight down. I've never had an issue with being overweight but even 10 pounds can aggravate my condition. I used to take a lot of ibuprofen. That has some serious possible side effects in and of itself if abused. It's not just prescription stuff that can harm you. I try to eat the foods that have natural anti-inflammatory properties.
I'm sorry you hurt all the time. You already know that affects you emotionally as well as physically. I hope you can find some relief at some point.
I don't hurt all the time. I'm not comfortable all the time. It doesn't matter if I sit, stand or lie down. If I do something out of the ordinary, I do wind up in pain though. To make matters worse, this isn't the sort of thing where I can walk 3 blocks today, be in pain and then be able to walk those same 3 blocks pain free the next time. I hit a wall, and pushing through it does not help. I asked my surgeon about it and he strongly suggested that I pay attention to the wall, that that pain means I am stressing the joint too much and the joint may not hold. I don't have a lot of bone holding it in place. So I listen to it. The last time I pushed through the wall was when we were in Dubai and I was visiting the gold souks. I paid for it that night. That was stupid of me, and it didn't help that I was afraid to bring a few narcotics with me due to where we were. While my hip issue is no way near what you went through, I can relate. It is just being uncomfortable all the time, and it's exhausting. I couldn't sit, stand, or lay for too long without hurting. Last summer our usual 2 hour drive to a shore town, which was still too long for me to sit comfortably in a car, turned into a 3 hour drive because of an accident. I was crying and freaking out because I HAD to move and couldn't. I hate complaining so didn't really whine too much to my friends, so when I told people I was having surgery last month they were mostly surprised, especially with how chipper I was about it, lol. But yeah, being in constant discomfort mixed in with pain from doing too much (like walking a couple of miles or squatting to clean cat litter) really just f-ing sucks.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2017 15:23:03 GMT -5
Where ever did I say that? I said that alcohol CAN be as destructive as heroin. And it can be. Swamp gave you the data so you now have cold hard numbers. There is absolutely NOTHING in what I have written that compares having a glass of wine to taking heroin. Well...obesity related deaths were 300,000....so I guess obesity is a lot more destructive than heroin. It is easy to make that conclusion when you talk in absolute numbers.... But you understand why someone would opt for cheesecake rather than a salad, or the prime rib instead of the baked chicken breast, or the fries instead of steamed broccoli? Because it tastes better, feels good to eat it, and the possible side effects are way way way down the road.
We try to teach our kids about smart choices and bad things that could happen down the road. If we tell kids that you will have a heart attack and die if you eat cheesecake, they will quickly figure out you are full of shit. The scare tactics of heroin are the same. we tell them about instant addiction, which isn't really true, so they try it once, don't die, really enjoy the experience, and then keep using.
And just like cheesecake, a whole bunch is bad. Heroin is just on a much worse scale.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2017 15:25:08 GMT -5
I will never understand why an insurance company can decide that your own personal physician doesn't know what's best for you. To be fair, the insurance company isn't saying you can't get the medicine. They are saying they won't pay for it. Each year we are given a formulary for our insurance plan. I was prescribed something not covered by my plan. I had the option of paying out of pocket for it. I have also taken my youngest for lots of therapies not covered by our insurance plan. I paid out of pocket. The insurance company doesn't dictate healthcare. They just decide what they will pay for. For some people, that is dictating health care.
If I got cancer, some of the chemos DH works with cost $5k per dose. You probably need at least 10 doses for a regimen. I can't afford that. That would be an insurance company dictating healthcare.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 9, 2017 18:06:41 GMT -5
He who pays, dictates.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 9, 2017 19:10:39 GMT -5
Well...obesity related deaths were 300,000....so I guess obesity is a lot more destructive than heroin. It is easy to make that conclusion when you talk in absolute numbers.... But you understand why someone would opt for cheesecake rather than a salad, or the prime rib instead of the baked chicken breast, or the fries instead of steamed broccoli? Because it tastes better, feels good to eat it, and the possible side effects are way way way down the road.
We try to teach our kids about smart choices and bad things that could happen down the road. If we tell kids that you will have a heart attack and die if you eat cheesecake, they will quickly figure out you are full of shit. The scare tactics of heroin are the same. we tell them about instant addiction, which isn't really true, so they try it once, don't die, really enjoy the experience, and then keep using.
And just like cheesecake, a whole bunch is bad. Heroin is just on a much worse scale.
I use real life examples over scare tactics. I told my daughter that our family seems to have an addictive gene . I point to our cousin as to what can happen if you do heroin. Not sure how that is just a scare tactic. it is realty. I told her you won't know if you are the person that gets addicted the first time or not. The only way to make sure you don't get addicted is to never do it. Playing it off as doing heroin is no more stupid than drinking is sending the wrong message.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 9, 2017 19:11:23 GMT -5
To be fair, the insurance company isn't saying you can't get the medicine. They are saying they won't pay for it. Each year we are given a formulary for our insurance plan. I was prescribed something not covered by my plan. I had the option of paying out of pocket for it. I have also taken my youngest for lots of therapies not covered by our insurance plan. I paid out of pocket. The insurance company doesn't dictate healthcare. They just decide what they will pay for. For some people, that is dictating health care.
If I got cancer, some of the chemos DH works with cost $5k per dose. You probably need at least 10 doses for a regimen. I can't afford that. That would be an insurance company dictating healthcare.
Valid point on the chemo. I don't agree on cheaper drugs but I'm also sure that corresponds to a persons discretionary money
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Mar 9, 2017 20:44:12 GMT -5
I like that Miss T, I am the mom that called a penis a penis, a vagina a vagina and what they were. I think it is important to be honest about family issues, I always err on the side of being honest.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:10:18 GMT -5
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Mar 12, 2017 8:37:24 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 12, 2017 22:22:34 GMT -5
The other night, ABC Nightly News had a news feature about a farmer in either Illinois or Ohio. Father of three, the first to die of a heroin overdose was his adult daughter. The second to die from a heroin overdose was his adult son. The last surviving child, an adult son, is a heroin addict too. The son is trying to kick the habit. These adult kids were and are in their late 20s and early 30s. The father is at a lose as to what the hell happened to his family but is trying to help his son. This is the story I mentioned above: When a Family Farm Is Ravaged by HeroinBLANCHESTER, Ohio — A life of farming taught Roger Winemiller plenty about harsh twists of fate: hail storms and drought, ragweed infestations and jittery crop prices. He hadn’t bargained on heroin. Then, in March 2016, Mr. Winemiller’s daughter, Heather Himes, 31, died of an opioid overdose at the family farmhouse, inside a first-floor bathroom overlooking fields of corn and soybeans. Mr. Winemiller was the one who unlocked the bathroom door and found her slumped over, a syringe by her side. Nine months later, Mr. Winemiller’s oldest son, Eugene, who once drove trucks and tractors on the family’s 3,400-acre farm, overdosed at his mother’s home. Family members and medics had been able to revive him after earlier overdoses. Not this one. Overdoses are churning through agricultural pockets of America like a plow through soil, tearing at rural communities and posing a new threat to the generational ties of families like the Winemillers. Farm bureaus’ attention to seed, fertilizer and subsidies has been diverted to discussions of overdoses. Volunteer-run heroin support groups are popping up in rural towns where clinics and drug treatment centers are an hour’s drive away, and broaching public conversations about addiction and death that close-knit neighbors and even some families of the dead would prefer to keep out of view. Complete article here: When a Family Farm Is Ravaged by Heroin
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