President Obama versus President Trump

[Value Buy]

I want to take a minute and start a thread on the two Presidents.

My question is, President Trump is attacked across the world for actually doing something.
I get it. It is controversial, and he is facing opposition from both sides of the political aisle here in the states.
He is a man of action, and has a majority in both Houses, although not an overwhelming majority.

 If President Obama had used this tactic in the first two weeks of his Administration, would he had been attacked by anyone other than the conservative right?
Could he have pushed his agenda through Congress with the strong Democratic majority he had in office in both Houses?
Would the Democrats said, slow down, be patient?
    Could he have accomplished his agenda, or would have objections on both sides of the aisle and said slow down.......?

Myself, I do not think it was in President Obama's DNA to be a radical implementer of his  political stripes.
Would perceived institutional racism on both political sides have slowed him down emotionally from implementing it?

I honestly believe his belief in racial relations slowed him down eight years ago. He felt he had to take a slow approach, have the various American races behind him emotionally and did not accomplish what he wanted to in eight years.
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?

Or was it simply, he did not want to shake the country up?
Thoughts?

[Gardening Grandma]

He attacked and insulted allies... That is just plain dumb.

[Tiny]

I don't think he's being attacked for "doing something" so much as the fact that he comes across as an Asshole.

Let's say there's a dead tree on your lot line - and it kind of threatens YOUR house (but not really - there's a 50% chance it wouldn't hit your house if it came down in a storm) but it DID threaten YOUR neighbor's house (an 80% chance it would hit their house if it came down in a storm).

Now, your neighbor's goal is to have the dead tree cut down so it keeps their own house safe (and inadvertently helps you).   But they see that you too have a vested interest (your house is also likely to be damaged.)  The tree is on the lot line - might be YOUR tree, might be THEIR tree.

If your neighbor shows up on your porch one Sunday morning DEMANDING that you have the tree removed!  And maybe also insinuates that you are a stupid ugly homeowner  for not having taken care of the tree sooner...  

How would you feel about your neighbor and respond to that?

would your response be different if they show up on Sunday morning with beer (or cookies) to chat and politely brings the conversation around to the dead tree (on the lot line) and suggests to you how much damage it might do to your house?  Sure would be a shame if YOU don't do something.   Maybe you both could do something about the tree.

How would you feel about your neighbor and respond to that? 

 

[emma1420]

If Obama had made the promises that Trump has and then alienated our allies then I'd be bitching and screaming about that.

But, he didn't, so I didn't.

And Trump is a man of action. But, his actions have significant consequences both in the short-term and the long-term.  And Trump doesn't seem to care about the consequences at all, which is exceptionally dangerous for us as a nation.   And most of Trump's actions are taking us backwards rather than moving us forward.

[Tiny]

Feb 3, 2017 12:53:00 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I don't think he's being attacked for "doing something" so much as the fact that he comes across as an Asshole.

Let's say there's a dead tree on your lot line - and it kind of threatens YOUR house (but not really - there's a 50% chance it wouldn't hit your house if it came down in a storm) but it DID threaten YOUR neighbor's house (an 80% chance it would hit their house if it came down in a storm).

Now, your neighbor's goal is to have the dead tree cut down so it keeps their own house safe (and inadvertently helps you).   But they see that you too have a vested interest (your house is also likely to be damaged.)  The tree is on the lot line - might be YOUR tree, might be THEIR tree.

If your neighbor shows up on your porch one Sunday morning DEMANDING that you have the tree removed!  And maybe also insinuates that you are a stupid ugly homeowner  for not having taken care of the tree sooner...  

How would you feel about your neighbor and respond to that?

would your response be different if they show up on Sunday morning with beer (or cookies) to chat and politely brings the conversation around to the dead tree (on the lot line) and suggests to you how much damage it might do to your house?  Sure would be a shame if YOU don't do something.   Maybe you both could do something about the tree.

How would you feel about your neighbor and respond to that? 

 

OK, you've had some time to think about the Tree Scenario.

What if the DEMANDING RUDE neighbor decided you were totally incompentent and useless and so went a head and hired a tree service to cut down the tree - remember it's on the lot line - he might have just CUT DOWN YOUR DEAD TREE without any notice to you.  Maybe the buzzing saws and wood chipper woke you up at 6:00am on Saturday morning (and you had a hangover).  

How do you feel about that?    What if the demanding rude neighbor makes it known at every opportunity what a great guy he is for having done YOUR job and cutting down the tree?   What if he won't let it drop and at every opportunity he makes sure you (and who ever else is around) KNOWS that he did the RIGHT thing and cut down YOUR tree - because you are such an incompentent homeowner. In fact, he often wonders aloud to anyone in hearing range  how you manage to keep your house livable - you are that incompetent.

What if the more diplomatic neighbor asked if it was ok to have the dead tree removed (on the lot line - maybe YOUR dead tree)?  What if they asked if you would foot some of the bill or help with the removal/cleanup?  In a nice non-confrontational way?  

Which neighbor do you want to deal with?

[Tiny]

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

 
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?
 
Thoughts?

first, I have no idea how people do not 'percieve' Trump (and his administrations) as racist.   

But then you just more or less said that the fact that Trump is WHITE may make him a more effective President. 

I have no idea why someone's skin color should make their ideas for how to solve problems  BETTER than someone elses...   but hey what do I know - I'm just a woman and we all know how women can't keep a thought in their pretty little heads.

[tallguy]

He is a man of action

But unfortunately for both us and the rest of the world he is not a man of thought.  It is also probably more correct in the first place to say that he is a man of reaction instead.  

Former President Obama is much more of a deliberative thinker who concerns himself with consequences.  He is not autocratic, which is why many of his starting positions on issues were where others might end up AFTER negotiations with opponents.  And he got rewarded for it not at all.  Republicans just moved the line further away.  I don't think that such a style was due to race (or more appropriately the idea that moving faster would deepen the racial divide) but rather it is just his style to be more thoughtful and sure before taking action.  Trump is none of those things.  Some people may appreciate the "action" but thoughtless action is worse than none at all.  Many mistakes can't be "walked back" that well.    

[dezailoooooo]

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I want to take a minute and start a thread on the two Presidents.

My question is, President Trump is attacked across the world for actually doing something.
I get it. It is controversial, and he is facing opposition from both sides of the political aisle here in the states.
He is a man of action, and has a majority in both Houses, although not an overwhelming majority.

 If President Obama had used this tactic in the first two weeks of his Administration, would he had been attacked by anyone other than the conservative right?
Could he have pushed his agenda through Congress with the strong Democratic majority he had in office in both Houses?
Would the Democrats said, slow down, be patient?
    Could he have accomplished his agenda, or would have objections on both sides of the aisle and said slow down.......?

Myself, I do not think it was in President Obama's DNA to be a radical implementer of his  political stripes.
Would perceived institutional racism on both political sides have slowed him down emotionally from implementing it?

I honestly believe his belief in racial relations slowed him down eight years ago. He felt he had to take a slow approach, have the various American races behind him emotionally and did not accomplish what he wanted to in eight years.
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?

Or was it simply, he did not want to shake the country up?
Thoughts?What ever he wanted to do felt..once he took office and found out what the country was facing economically..how bad the unemployment figures were and growing..the banking problems,,housing foreclosures and on and on...all his plans probably went right out the window...

[dezailoooooo]

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I want to take a minute and start a thread on the two Presidents.

My question is, President Trump is attacked across the world for actually doing something.
I get it. It is controversial, and he is facing opposition from both sides of the political aisle here in the states.
He is a man of action, and has a majority in both Houses, although not an overwhelming majority.

 If President Obama had used this tactic in the first two weeks of his Administration, would he had been attacked by anyone other than the conservative right?
Could he have pushed his agenda through Congress with the strong Democratic majority he had in office in both Houses?
Would the Democrats said, slow down, be patient?
    Could he have accomplished his agenda, or would have objections on both sides of the aisle and said slow down.......?

Myself, I do not think it was in President Obama's DNA to be a radical implementer of his  political stripes.
Would perceived institutional racism on both political sides have slowed him down emotionally from implementing it?

I honestly believe his belief in racial relations slowed him down eight years ago. He felt he had to take a slow approach, have the various American races behind him emotionally and did not accomplish what he wanted to in eight years.
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?

Or was it simply, he did not want to shake the country up?
Thoughts?

What ever he wanted to do felt..once he took office and found out what the country was facing economically..how bad the unemployment figures were and growing..the banking problems,,housing foreclosures and on and on...all his plans probably went right out the window...

[Phoenix84]

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I want to take a minute and start a thread on the two Presidents.

My question is, President Trump is attacked across the world for actually doing something.
I get it. It is controversial, and he is facing opposition from both sides of the political aisle here in the states.
He is a man of action, and has a majority in both Houses, although not an overwhelming majority.

 If President Obama had used this tactic in the first two weeks of his Administration, would he had been attacked by anyone other than the conservative right?
Could he have pushed his agenda through Congress with the strong Democratic majority he had in office in both Houses?
Would the Democrats said, slow down, be patient?
    Could he have accomplished his agenda, or would have objections on both sides of the aisle and said slow down.......?

Myself, I do not think it was in President Obama's DNA to be a radical implementer of his  political stripes.
Would perceived institutional racism on both political sides have slowed him down emotionally from implementing it?

I honestly believe his belief in racial relations slowed him down eight years ago. He felt he had to take a slow approach, have the various American races behind him emotionally and did not accomplish what he wanted to in eight years.
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?

Or was it simply, he did not want to shake the country up?
Thoughts?

1. No, no one but the conservative right attacked Obama for anything.  The media fawned over Obama like a teenage girl swooning over a high school crush.

2. Obama did push through his agenda, see exhibit one, Obamacare.

3. No, the democrats were not going to ask him to slow down.

4. He did accomplish his agenda with obamacare.  It passed.  Then the democrats got shellacked in the 2010 mid terms as punishment and they've never really recovered since. 

[Value Buy]

Feb 3, 2017 13:10:39 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

 
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?
 
Thoughts?

first, I have no idea how people do not 'percieve' Trump (and his administrations) as racist.   

But then you just more or less said that the fact that Trump is WHITE may make him a more effective President. 

I have no idea why someone's skin color should make their ideas for how to solve problems  BETTER than someone elses...   but hey what do I know - I'm just a woman and we all know how women can't keep a thought in their pretty little heads.

I tried to word the statement as best I could.
I simply feel that President Obama felt he had to walk a tightrope due to his racial make up, and feared if aggressive, he would alienate over 50% of the country. President Obama was a man of honor, who did worry about his perception to America as a whole, and it impacted his strategy in domestic policy.
I am not trying to say whether it is a fact or not, but simply my opinion.
But it is a consideration.

[Value Buy]

Feb 3, 2017 13:53:55 GMT -5 dezailoooooo said:

Feb 3, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I want to take a minute and start a thread on the two Presidents.

My question is, President Trump is attacked across the world for actually doing something.
I get it. It is controversial, and he is facing opposition from both sides of the political aisle here in the states.
He is a man of action, and has a majority in both Houses, although not an overwhelming majority.

 If President Obama had used this tactic in the first two weeks of his Administration, would he had been attacked by anyone other than the conservative right?
Could he have pushed his agenda through Congress with the strong Democratic majority he had in office in both Houses?
Would the Democrats said, slow down, be patient?
    Could he have accomplished his agenda, or would have objections on both sides of the aisle and said slow down.......?

Myself, I do not think it was in President Obama's DNA to be a radical implementer of his  political stripes.
Would perceived institutional racism on both political sides have slowed him down emotionally from implementing it?

I honestly believe his belief in racial relations slowed him down eight years ago. He felt he had to take a slow approach, have the various American races behind him emotionally and did not accomplish what he wanted to in eight years.
With Trump's, racial make up, it is not the issue -- racism may be perceived as in his agenda by some, but being white, does he get an advantage in accomplishing his plans?

Or was it simply, he did not want to shake the country up?
Thoughts?

What ever he wanted to do felt..once he took office and found out what the country was facing economically..how bad the unemployment figures were and growing..the banking problems,,housing foreclosures and on and on...all his plans probably went right out the window...

Could be.
Not sure myself

[Tiny]

Feb 3, 2017 14:38:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Feb 3, 2017 13:10:39 GMT -5 Tiny said:

first, I have no idea how people do not 'percieve' Trump (and his administrations) as racist.   

But then you just more or less said that the fact that Trump is WHITE may make him a more effective President. 

I have no idea why someone's skin color should make their ideas for how to solve problems  BETTER than someone elses...   but hey what do I know - I'm just a woman and we all know how women can't keep a thought in their pretty little heads.

I tried to word the statement as best I could.
I simply feel that President Obama felt he had to walk a tightrope due to his racial make up, and feared if aggressive, he would alienate over 50% of the country. President Obama was a man of honor, who did worry about his perception to America as a whole, and it impacted his strategy in domestic policy.
I am not trying to say whether it is a fact or not, but simply my opinion.
But it is a consideration.

So, Obama was afraid of alienating the MORE like 70% WHITE population of America?   But, since Trump is WHITE he doesn't need to care at all about alienating the 30% or so of the American population that don't identify as white?  AND that's why Trump is 'achieving' so much (mostly racist/evangelical religion backed) promises he made to his already elected mostly WHITE Republican supporters so their supporters would stump/vote for him?

I think it totally came down to the goofy swing to the edges of "Left" and "Right" representation that got voted into office - and had little to do with Obama's (or Trump's) skin color.

If a black Republican woman running for President would have promised the extreme "Right" all the things Trump did AND had the charisma to pull it off  - the current Republican party would have backed her.  

Really, look hard at the things Trump has accomplished so far... has any of it effected job creation?  better trade deals?  encouraging business to grow?   Lower drug costs?   Better medical care?  Better schools? 

Mostly he's just made the Religious Right cream their pants

[ErikMouse]

Feb 3, 2017 12:53:29 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

If Obama had made the promises that Trump has and then alienated our allies then I'd be bitching and screaming about that.

But, he didn't, so I didn't.

And Trump is a man of action. But, his actions have significant consequences both in the short-term and the long-term.  And Trump doesn't seem to care about the consequences at all, which is exceptionally dangerous for us as a nation.   And most of Trump's actions are taking us backwards rather than moving us forward.

Yeah, it seems that he is taking us backwards to the olden days of the wild west, to the dark ages, to ancient times, and perhaps to the dinosaur age.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 3, 2017 20:18:14 GMT -5 ErikMouse said:

Feb 3, 2017 12:53:29 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

If Obama had made the promises that Trump has and then alienated our allies then I'd be bitching and screaming about that.

But, he didn't, so I didn't.

And Trump is a man of action. But, his actions have significant consequences both in the short-term and the long-term.  And Trump doesn't seem to care about the consequences at all, which is exceptionally dangerous for us as a nation.   And most of Trump's actions are taking us backwards rather than moving us forward.

Yeah, it seems that he is taking us backwards to the olden days of the wild west, to the dark ages, to ancient times, and perhaps to the dinosaur age.

Maybe we will finally find out if man was riding dinosaurs to work and kids had them as pets.

[Icelandic Woman]

The steaming pile of shit currently occupying the White House has the Hitler playbook by his bedside and is following it step by step.

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 3, 2017 21:04:57 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

The steaming pile of shit currently occupying the White House has the Hitler playbook by his bedside and is following it step by step.

Bam!

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2017 12:44:56 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

He attacked and insulted allies... That is just plain dumb.

Obama apologized for us being a strong country and doing what was right and necessary to secure a better world... That was just plain dumb too.

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 3, 2017 23:07:55 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Feb 3, 2017 12:44:56 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

He attacked and insulted allies... That is just plain dumb.

Obama apologized for us being a strong country and doing what was right and necessary to secure a better world... That was just plain dumb too.

No he didn't. He DID acknowledge (correctly) that the US has, in the past, behaved like a bully.  In doing so, he generated respect and goodwill. Which is now going down the drain thanks to the stupid and shortsighted actions of tbe past two weeks.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2017 10:52:14 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Feb 3, 2017 23:07:55 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Obama apologized for us being a strong country and doing what was right and necessary to secure a better world... That was just plain dumb too.

No he didn't. He DID acknowledge (correctly) that the US has, in the past, behaved like a bully.  In doing so, he generated respect and goodwill. Which is now going down the drain thanks to the stupid and shortsighted actions of tbe past two weeks.

Yes. He actually did. I know it doesn't sit well with many, and they'd like to re-write history... but... the apology tour happened, whether Obama fans like it or not.

And what he "generated" was disdain and a lack of fear from the enemies of freedom.

[citizensunite]

An American president’s highest moral, constitutional and political duty is protecting his fellow citizens from foreign threats. Presidents should adhere to our values and the Constitution, and not treat America’s enemies as morally equivalent to us.

If they do, they need not apologize to anyone.

The White House says that President Obama won’t apologize as he visits Hiroshima Friday. But who believes his press flacks?

His penchant for apologizing is central to his legacy. He may not often say “I apologize” explicitly, but his meaning is always clear, especially since he often bends his knee overseas, where he knows the foreign audiences will get his meaning. It is, in fact, Obama’s subtlety that makes his effort to reduce America’s influence in the world so dangerous.

nypost.com/2016/05/26/obamas-shameful-apology-tour-lands-in-hiroshima/

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 4, 2017 22:30:08 GMT -5 citizensunite said:

An American president’s highest moral, constitutional and political duty is protecting his fellow citizens from foreign threats. Presidents should adhere to our values and the Constitution, and not treat America’s enemies as morally equivalent to us.

If they do, they need not apologize to anyone.

The White House says that President Obama won’t apologize as he visits Hiroshima Friday. But who believes his press flacks?

His penchant for apologizing is central to his legacy. He may not often say “I apologize” explicitly, but his meaning is always clear, especially since he often bends his knee overseas, where he knows the foreign audiences will get his meaning. It is, in fact, Obama’s subtlety that makes his effort to reduce America’s influence in the world so dangerous.

nypost.com/2016/05/26/obamas-shameful-apology-tour-lands-in-hiroshima/

[b


Sublty & nunance seem to be difficult for conservatives to grasp. Short easy slogans ("apology tour") are easier to regurgitate.
Foreign countries, however, "got it". And respect for America rose as a result until the last 2 weeks

[dezailoooooo]

Feb 4, 2017 22:30:08 GMT -5 citizensunite said:

An American president’s highest moral, constitutional and political duty is protecting his fellow citizens from foreign threats. Presidents should adhere to our values and the Constitution, and not treat America’s enemies as morally equivalent to us.

If they do, they need not apologize to anyone.

The White House says that President Obama won’t apologize as he visits Hiroshima Friday. But who believes his press flacks?

His penchant for apologizing is central to his legacy. He may not often say “I apologize” explicitly, but his meaning is always clear, especially since he often bends his knee overseas, where he knows the foreign audiences will get his meaning. It is, in fact, Obama’s subtlety that makes his effort to reduce America’s influence in the world so dangerous.

nypost.com/2016/05/26/obamas-shameful-apology-tour-lands-in-hiroshima/

What is there to apologize about..It was a event that happen'd 72 years ago...after four years of war against a enemy who had shown their psych was to never surrender..knowing they were going to lose, their prime objective was to kill as many of those they faced before they died themselves..We today have no idea of the feelings of those who were participants of the war, both sides, at that time. Not a clue as to the real feelings toward the enemy..even on the home front.

Our President at the time, Harry Truman, had a obligation to protect American military people as best he could...Having been a artillery officer in the first WW , Captain, he knew what it was to order people in harms way, also to be the instrument of causing the deaths of the enemy in calling in artillery strikes as well as commanding the guns that dealt out the strikes..

He did what he had to do..First hand experience..My Uncle , Joe Bor , was in the Phillipines when the war ended..Had already participated in the battles to retake the Phillipines...for those not knowlegable of that action , suggest a little google..

Japanese murdered thousands in Manilla alone as they were being driven from the Islands..they were not going quietly..he participated in much action and told me how unbelievable happy he and his unit were  to hear of the bomb...They were already being retrained to be part of the invasion of the home Islands of Japan...estimated casualties for American forces were set at a half million..Japanese..who knew..