Body shaming? or Marketing?

[alabamagal]

Is this body shaming?  Or is this person just being a little too sensitve?  Did she ask the clerk if they carried her size or did the clerk just approach her?  

www.yahoo.com/style/must-read-a-size-20-shoppers-scathing-open-letter-to-victorias-secret-235727760.html

I have never been in Victoria's Secret.  I don't think they have my size either.  

There are many stores that I will never go into because I know that I am not in their target audience.  

Of course I never used to think it was fair that there were specialty shops and specialty departments for petite sizes, yet very rarely were there shops for tall people.  Maybe I should go into those stores and ask them why they don't carry items in my size (I am 5'10").  And lets not even go to the shoe departments, that is a whole different rant!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't take anything a vs clerk says to me seriously. At least at the one I go to they are often 20 something's and based on having interviewed with them myself at that age teaching them how to relate to various customers isn't high on their list.

They don't carry my size in store either. I'm a 34a. I asked and they said the stores stock sizes they sell the most of. They do not waste floor space on sizes that don't turn over quickly.

I have to go online to find my size.

I think.what the sales lady said was poorly chosen but I am doubtful she was trying to body shame.

They've told me the same thing just not in such a stupid manner.

[Pants]

I think this depends on how it was said. There's a way to say this where it may not have been ideally phrased, but could have meant - "do you know what size you are already or do you need some guidance?" Then there's a way to say this that's totally mean girl that's there's no way to interpret it except "You don't belong here, fatty." 

I wasn't there, I have no idea which one it was. 

I also don't shop at victoria's secret because they do not carry G cup sizes and I am too old to wear things with writing on the ass. 

[Deleted]

I have been in a Victorias Secret dressing room, but this is a story best told over drinks.

[Lizard Queen]

Not every store can carry every size.  I do fit into their sizes, but don't like to shop there anyway.  If they don't happen to have my size in stock, then they won't get my money.   If they do that to enough people, the store won't be profitable.

[Tiny]

I'm not sure if it was body shaming... it depends on what tone was used. I can't cut and paste for some reason... but, the wording used by the clerk wasn't the best - but it didn't have the outright 'feel' of trying to be a bitch to a customer.

I have wandered into stores were I was not the target audience -  the sales person would usually give me a bit to figure out I wasn't the target audience on my own  - but if I still lingered (or was just clueless) would come over with a helpful "can I help you?" query...   which was a good strategy on their part because MAYBE I was shopping for someone else and not for me...  

Yes, I've felt embarrassed - as in "opps, I've made a mistake! I'm not suppose to be here!"  but I've never felt shamed by the sales people involved.

 

[Tiny]

Feb 3, 2017 10:39:22 GMT -5 @aj said:

I have been in a Victorias Secret dressing room, but this is a story best told over drinks.

Trying on a lacey panty/bra set were we  

[raeoflyte]

Feb 3, 2017 10:45:35 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I don't understand why asking the question in this case would be considered body shaming?   


From the OP's link

The employee asked her, “Hi.. Are you aware of the sizing in this store?”

It's not like the employee asked "Do you think we have whale sizes here?"  or "Do you think we'll have something to fit your fat ass here?" 

Would it be body shaming if a size 2 person walked into a store that only carried plus sizes and had the sales person ask "Hi.. Are you aware of the sizing in this store?”  

It was a very simple question that asks "Do you know we carry xs-l at the store?"  It's factual.    I guess I'd put it in the same category as me walking into an auto parts store with a knitting pattern in my hand and being asked "Hi Are you aware we only sell auto parts here?"

Of course I came from a family that was brutally honest when it came to opinions about clothes and appearance.   Nothing like trying something on and having your mother and sister say in unison "OMG that looks horrible on you ughh  take it off!"   (granted I would say similar things to them as well). 

There really isn't any reason to start with that question though.  Any variation of "Is there anything I can help you find?" would be more appropriate.  I can guarantee that my tiny little SIL isn't asked this when she shops in plus size stores for gifts for me.  Or that my dh is asked if he realizes he's in a women's store, when shopping for me, or his mom or sister.  Asking the question she did sent a clear message that the customer was in the wrong place, even if that isn't what the associate meant. 

My best bra is from victoria secret even though I'm plus size--I just have an extender on it which I bought from them and its perfect.  

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't think it was a smart thing to say and have no clue if it was meant with mean intentions or not. I do know that there probably aren't two 20-something persons on the face of the Earth who don't know what a VS store carries and that it doesn't cater to larger sizes so I'm not buying her "clueless" schtick.  My butcher shop doesn't carry toilet paper either.  If I want it, I go somewhere else.

Should they carry larger sizes? Maybe. I've seen some absolutely stunning plus size models.  I think most women want to feel sexy and that's what VS does. It makes a woman feel sexy. It's not about the quality - cause I think it sucks. It's about the feeling women get from shopping there. I'd hate to think they don't stock larger sizes just to keep "non perfect" women out of their store.

[NoNamePerson]

Did it occur to the clerk that she might have come in to purchase something for her daughter, DIL, etc or for a gift card? Probably not.

eta. I probably would have said something like I can do something about my size but you will need plastic surgery for ugly inside and out!  

[Lizard Queen]

These clerks are probably making minimum wage, working few hours, and have very little training and experience.  How much should we expect from them?  

News Flash!  Someone somewhere said something that could be construed as a little offensive, maybe!  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Feb 3, 2017 10:58:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think it was a smart thing to say and have no clue if it was meant with mean intentions or not. I do know that there probably aren't two 20-something persons on the face of the Earth who don't know what a VS store carries and that it doesn't cater to larger sizes so I'm not buying her "clueless" schtick.  My butcher shop doesn't carry toilet paper either.  If I want it, I go somewhere else.

Should they carry larger sizes? Maybe. I've seen some absolutely stunning plus size models.  I think most women want to feel sexy and that's what VS does. It makes a woman feel sexy. It's not about the quality - cause I think it sucks. It's about the feeling women get from shopping there. I'd hate to think they don't stock larger sizes just to keep "non perfect" women out of their store.

It's cause larger sizes don't tend to sell.   They stock the average sizes which is in the B-D cup range.   They don't carry smaller than a 32 B in our local store but I do not claim that they are body shaming me because finding a 34 A bra in stock is like seeing a unicorn.

When you're an "odd" size you often end up having to go online to find the wider range of stock the brand carries.

It's the same with maternity clothes.   I found out stores don't carry them often because they don't move and take up space that could be used for other clothing that moves faster and turns a bigger profit.  You have to go online to find many stores maternity selections.

Doesn't mean they are trying to keep preggos from shopping at the store.

It's all about profit and limited shelf space. 

[raeoflyte]

Feb 3, 2017 11:11:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These clerks are probably making minimum wage, working few hours, and have very little training and experience.  How much should we expect from them?  

News Flash!  Someone somewhere said something that could be construed as a little offensive, maybe!  

That is something that VS should be held accountable to, or at least be made aware of so they can better their customer experience.  Anyone can leave a bad rating now and they're usually extremes, but that doesn't mean that business' shouldn't try to glean opportunities to improve from them. 

I worked in a high end women's retail store in my teens and part of my training could probably be called sensitivity training--because we wanted everyone's money and felt that a good way to get it was to treat everyone well.  My manager had me role play ways to recommend clothing, and questions to ask.  Discussed how to NOT ask a women when she was due, and even how to help cross dressers and trans women.  This was in the 90's before I even knew what transgendered meant.  

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2017 10:54:16 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Feb 3, 2017 10:39:22 GMT -5 @aj said:

I have been in a Victorias Secret dressing room, but this is a story best told over drinks.

Trying on a lacey panty/bra set were we  

I didn't try anything on, it was 20 years ago when I was in high school and involved a bet, the girl I was dating at the time, my good friend, her boyfriend and one very inquisitive sales associate.

I should write a book.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

6 mon

Feb 3, 2017 11:42:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Feb 3, 2017 11:11:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These clerks are probably making minimum wage, working few hours, and have very little training and experience.  How much should we expect from them?  

News Flash!  Someone somewhere said something that could be construed as a little offensive, maybe!  

That is something that VS should be held accountable to, or at least be made aware of so they can better their customer experience.  Anyone can leave a bad rating now and they're usually extremes, but that doesn't mean that business' shouldn't try to glean opportunities to improve from them. 

I worked in a high end women's retail store in my teens and part of my training could probably be called sensitivity training--because we wanted everyone's money and felt that a good way to get it was to treat everyone well.  My manager had me role play ways to recommend clothing, and questions to ask.  Discussed how to NOT ask a women when she was due, and even how to help cross dressers and trans women.  This was in the 90's before I even knew what transgendered meant.  

That's not limited to VS.   I went to bra shop at JcPenny's and the lady told me I would be better off looking in the training bra section.

I do not believe her intention was to shame me but it's humiliating at 32 to be told to go shop in the little girls section for bras.

I've found it VERY difficult in any chain/box store to find someone who has good customer service skills in the bra department.   Every single one of them has said something insensitive or boneheaded.

I don't think they are out to personally shame me.  I think it's the chains simply don't care all that much to provide any kind of additional customer service training.   Why bother when your sales clerk probably won't be here in another 6 months?

The exception was the lady at Dillard's who had been measuring women for bras for 30+ years.  I bought bras from her when I was pregnant with Gwen.   I was very sad when their store location closed and she disappeared.

She had some choice things to say about VS and their bra measuring training.

[Lizard Queen]

Feb 3, 2017 11:42:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Feb 3, 2017 11:11:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These clerks are probably making minimum wage, working few hours, and have very little training and experience.  How much should we expect from them?  

News Flash!  Someone somewhere said something that could be construed as a little offensive, maybe!  

That is something that VS should be held accountable to, or at least be made aware of so they can better their customer experience.  Anyone can leave a bad rating now and they're usually extremes, but that doesn't mean that business' shouldn't try to glean opportunities to improve from them. 

I worked in a high end women's retail store in my teens and part of my training could probably be called sensitivity training--because we wanted everyone's money and felt that a good way to get it was to treat everyone well.  My manager had me role play ways to recommend clothing, and questions to ask.  Discussed how to NOT ask a women when she was due, and even how to help cross dressers and trans women.  This was in the 90's before I even knew what transgendered meant.  

It sounds like you worked an an especially awesome place.  I would expect that much from a high-end place.  At VS, I would expect a lot of turnover with associates.  My own experience  with retail was they expected a ton out of associates being paid $4.40/hour.  (i.e., expected to always have a smile on your face while being worked to the bone.)  There was a ton of turnover, for damn good reason.  So, the issue with an associate not wording something perfectly?  Eh.     The issue that the store stocks mostly on the small end of the range---the store is being asinine.  They are losing sales that way.  Screw 'em.

[bean29]

I shop in VS all the time, I am neither Fat or Skinny - I am a size 12. Their Clerks are rarely if ever rude. I would say that of late their stores have the same issue that some other larger stores seem to share - they are severely understaffed.  I also occasionally see some pretty large women in lines - I don't know if they are buying personal care items, gifts, or like to wear their clothing really tight - no matter to me.

It was my understanding that VS carried larger sizes on line, not sure if that is a viable option for intimates, as the few times I ordered on line, they didn't wrap the items and they came crushed so I returned them.

I think their pricing and quality are similar to Kohl's Dept store, so  I purchased from both stores in the last 2 months.

[raeoflyte]

Feb 3, 2017 11:52:10 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Feb 3, 2017 11:42:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

That is something that VS should be held accountable to, or at least be made aware of so they can better their customer experience.  Anyone can leave a bad rating now and they're usually extremes, but that doesn't mean that business' shouldn't try to glean opportunities to improve from them. 

I worked in a high end women's retail store in my teens and part of my training could probably be called sensitivity training--because we wanted everyone's money and felt that a good way to get it was to treat everyone well.  My manager had me role play ways to recommend clothing, and questions to ask.  Discussed how to NOT ask a women when she was due, and even how to help cross dressers and trans women.  This was in the 90's before I even knew what transgendered meant.  

That's not limited to VS.   I went to bra shop at JcPenny's and the lady told me I would be better off looking in the training bra section.

I do not believe her intention was to shame me but it's humiliating at 32 to be told to go shop in the little girls section for bras.

I've found it VERY difficult in any chain/box store to find someone who has good customer service skills in the bra department.   Every single one of them has said something insensitive or boneheaded.

The exception was the lady at Dillard's who had been measuring women for bras for 30+ years.  I bought bras from her when I was pregnant with Gwen.   I was very sad when their store location closed and she disappeared.

She had some choice things to say about VS and their bra measuring training.

I hate to shop and I hate to talk to people, so I limit my shopping to places I have good experiences at.  When I'm paying a shit ton of money for clothes I expect to be treated well by staff.  They earn commissions or stips, and honestly most of them know that the better they treat me, the more likely I am to spend money.  If they don't know that, management will do well to help them figure it out.  

[swamp]

I have had a similar issue with VS. I got a gift certificates fir a wedding shower present. I biordered between plus and regular sizes then. I went I in to see if I could find something. Clerk approached me, looked me ups and down and told me they don't carry my size.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 3, 2017 11:59:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I shop in VS all the time, I am neither Fat or Skinny - I am a size 12. Their Clerks are rarely if ever rude. I would say that of late their stores have the same issue that some other larger stores seem to share - they are severely understaffed.  I also occasionally see some pretty large women in lines - I don't know if they are buying personal care items, gifts, or like to wear their clothing really tight - no matter to me.

It was my understanding that VS carried larger sizes on line, not sure if that is a viable option for intimates, as the few times I ordered on line, they didn't wrap the items and they came crushed so I returned them.

I think their pricing and quality are similar to Kohl's Dept store, so  I purchased from both stores in the last 2 months.

I stopped shopping in VS due to a rude clerk.  A brand new bra failed, I tried to return it and the manager tried to make it seem that I had done something wrong.  As I bought it on their card, they could pull up when it was bought.  It should have been replaced, but the manager offered me half off and threw (yeah...threw) a bra at me, telling the clerk to sell it to me for 50% off.  Even the clerk at the register and TD (who was with me at the time) were amazed at her attitude.  She was incredibly rude

I got the managers name (from the clerk), store and mailed a letter and the defective bra to the CEO of VS.  I received a decent sized gift card ($500), an apology and the manager no longer worked in the store the next time I went in.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I interviewed with VS way back when I was young and stupid.   The whole thing was a giant farce.  It ended with the manager ignoring everyone to gossip with a former employee of the Westroads location.

It was one of those "group interview" set ups but you could tell she had no clue how to conduct one.

I thought about getting up and leaving but it was such a fascinating train wreck.

I am extremely skeptical they get star employees.   A star employee is going to run for the hills.

The Dillards lady told me that VS staff has no clue how to fit bras.  They are trained to tell clients that they are whatever size the store currently stocks in order to make a sale. 

She told me that after I was surprised she measured me as a 34A.  I said that VS kept telling me I was a 36B.   She said that's cause it's the size they sell the most of.

[zibazinski]

VS does carry smaller sizes. 32 A and B. The best times to stock up are their sales plus you can go to the bin that has your sizes in it. I love those sales. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Feb 3, 2017 12:27:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

VS does carry smaller sizes. 32 A and B. The best times to stock up are their sales plus you can go to the bin that has your sizes in it. I love those sales. 

I tried that the other day.  Didn't work for me.  I'm busty but small framed.  Can someone tell me why anyone with a large cup size needs extra padding?  All I could find in my size had all kinds of padding.  I'm big enough without all that. I can see a lining because of....cold weather's affect on stuff, but this stuff was thick! 

[zibazinski]

Feb 3, 2017 13:09:57 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Feb 3, 2017 12:27:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

VS does carry smaller sizes. 32 A and B. The best times to stock up are their sales plus you can go to the bin that has your sizes in it. I love those sales. 

I tried that the other day.  Didn't work for me.  I'm busty but small framed.  Can someone tell me why anyone with a large cup size needs extra padding?  All I could find in my size had all kinds of padding.  I'm big enough without all that. I can see a lining because of....cold weather's affect on stuff, but this stuff was thick! 

I know. I shop there but I buy the bras that go under sweaters. They're like 2 for $30. I buy fancy when they're on sale. I don't know why as no one admires my undies anymore.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Feb 3, 2017 13:12:02 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Feb 3, 2017 13:09:57 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I tried that the other day.  Didn't work for me.  I'm busty but small framed.  Can someone tell me why anyone with a large cup size needs extra padding?  All I could find in my size had all kinds of padding.  I'm big enough without all that. I can see a lining because of....cold weather's affect on stuff, but this stuff was thick! 

I know. I shop there but I buy the bras that go under sweaters. They're like 2 for $30. I buy fancy when they're on sale. I don't know why as no one admires my undies anymore.

Doesn't matter who else sees them if you feel nice in them. Fancy away!  It's great to do something for just you.

[zibazinski]

Feb 3, 2017 13:21:14 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Feb 3, 2017 13:12:02 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I know. I shop there but I buy the bras that go under sweaters. They're like 2 for $30. I buy fancy when they're on sale. I don't know why as no one admires my undies anymore.

Doesn't matter who else sees them if you feel nice in them. Fancy away!  It's great to do something for just you.

I suppose. I just miss DH saying "woo hoo!"

[Wisconsin Beth]

Feb 3, 2017 12:19:45 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Honestly after years of cursing the shoddy quality at VS I went back to JCP for my undergarment needs.   Definitely lower prices and the brands they carry last better I've found.   

That and I was tired of all my VS undies crawling to places god didn't intend 

As for the fittings that most places do,  I learned that lesson early on when I covered that area when working retail.  I had zero training for doing fittings.   I would either grab the oldest lady in the dept to do them or fake my way through it.   So I have no faith that any other person out there knows what they are doing.   I'm sure there are some that do,  but I'm guessing they are in the minority. 

there used to be this super-cranky, skinny old bat in the VS at Mayfair who did all their measuring. I have no idea when she left.

I only go in their for Pink cards for my nieces nowadays.

[Chocolate Lover]

I haven't bought myself anything at VS in ages. They don't make larger sizes either.

Went in with DD a couple of months ago and there were 2 dudes working there. That's what I remember, talking football in VS with the sales guy. And how much they think their crap is worth.

[Chocolate Lover]

Feb 3, 2017 17:26:38 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Feb 3, 2017 17:20:12 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

I haven't bought myself anything at VS in ages. They don't make larger sizes either.

Went in with DD a couple of months ago and there were 2 dudes working there. That's what I remember, talking football in VS with the sales guy. And how much they think their crap is worth.

MrSroo almost was run out of a VS when he let it slip he was a fan of the rival football team.   We still laugh about it.  He said he was sure he was going to be beaten to death in a VS by all the sales ladies. 

We're in serious college football country, and I can't even remember which team the dude was a fan of. I can totally see the group hostility if they're all fans of the same team though. Some people take their football way to seriously. 

[chiver78]

Feb 3, 2017 11:07:25 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Did it occur to the clerk that she might have come in to purchase something for her daughter, DIL, etc or for a gift card? Probably not.

eta. I probably would have said something like I can do something about my size but you will need plastic surgery for ugly inside and out!  

 

all of this. I stopped shopping there for quality reasons long before I sized out of the inventory. but no way would that question as written in the link* have been received graciously by me. 

*I am well aware that this is one side of the story. I would love to know how far off the actual quote this is.