Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:07:14 GMT -5
First, where did I ever indicate that I think teachers are babysitters? Nowhere. I want to know what you try on your end to get them to cooperate because it's your end my kid isn't doing the work at. No homework being assigned for me to babysit him on. I also have no expectation of her stopping everything for him.
I asked because I hoped there was something I was overlooking from the outside, and was admittedly annoyed at her brevity/perceived attitude. Today was the first time I've had a response since her emails weren't spotted until Friday evening but I will be all over the boy from my end about doing what he's required to do. Is there anything, outside the meeting, that you would expect me to do from home?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jan 30, 2017 16:07:47 GMT -5
I'll have to go back and read when I'm not rushing. I apologize I just saw a comment of "do your job" basics saying it's not their job as a parent to make them do work just the teachers. And I went 😖 But maybe I read it wrong
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:08:13 GMT -5
If nothing works maybe he needs behavior help...if you can't find ways to get him to do things what makes one think a teacher can Great reading comprehension, I already mentioned a counseling appointment. ETA: I see you posted about reading in a rush about the same time I posted this. So, I take that back, sorry.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jan 30, 2017 16:08:59 GMT -5
I will look into this better when I get back! Sorry
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jan 30, 2017 16:09:52 GMT -5
I didn't read the entire thread I read two posts from you 😖
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 30, 2017 16:11:57 GMT -5
The problem is that you think we can "make" our kids do things, like they're robots and we have the master remote control. We set out rules and expectations and they CHOOSE to follow them... or not. We modify and incentivize as best we can, but ultimately it's up to the child if they want to do what we want them to do.
For a kid who knows the consequences, I think letting them fail is okay.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:16:17 GMT -5
The problem is that you think we can "make" our kids do things, like they're robots and we have the master remote control. We set out rules and expectations and they CHOOSE to follow them... or not. We modify and incentivize as best we can, but ultimately it's up to the child if they want to do what we want them to do. For a kid who knows the consequences, I think letting them fail is okay. This is very much a sink or swim on your own age. So far the older ones chose to swim, I have no idea if this one will. I can advise, scream, punish, bribe and do all kinds of things at home but what's the general plan on the other side of the fence? That's all I'm asking here. (with a side of WTF on the email structure/lack of info)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2017 16:26:10 GMT -5
The problem is that you think we can "make" our kids do things, like they're robots and we have the master remote control
Yeah they don't give you one of those when you leave the hospital.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:41:53 GMT -5
I also think the difference between what I'm hearing Chocolate Lover saying is that it's not up to the teacher, but more if the teacher can't get him to do his work in class what is mom going to do? My mom asked a similar question to teacher about me once. In essence it was "Look it's your classroom, I certainly can't control what goes on in there it's your job to manage it. Just like I don't expect you to manage things in my home." In the sense that each needs to be in charge in their own areas. But if I read correctly this is the only class that he's failing. I'd confirm that with the other teachers and then find out from him what's going on. This is pretty much it. With the question is there something that happens on the teacher end that I can't do at home? I hope she has the option of some form of punishment, but I'm not sure she does. It's not against any school rules that I've ever read to fail a class. You get your F and you go on with life. Right?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 30, 2017 16:47:43 GMT -5
.. at the end of the day, I want this kid to actually succeed in school and life so I have to find a way to work with his teachers and get whatever help I can from that side. With that being said: I would encourage you to bring in the special ed team (since you indicated he had an IEP I have to assume he is being served by them) to help identify what is going on in this particular class that is not allowing him to be as successful as he is in his other classes. Are there accommodations that the teacher needs to make? Teachers vary greatly in their ability/skill to understand and adapt to students with differing needs. This one might just need some special help in meeting your son's needs and getting it could really help with her growth as a teacher.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:50:40 GMT -5
This is pretty much it. With the question is there something that happens on the teacher end that I can't do at home? I hope she has the option of some form of punishment, but I'm not sure she does. It's not against any school rules that I've ever read to fail a class. You get your F and you go on with life. Right? I think that the punishment is grade (which depending on the schools could mean loss of privileges based on GPA (sports eligibility, restrictions from activities, etc). Unless he's breaking other rules while failing (disruption, insubordination, etc) I don't think there's anything else that can be done. You'd have to check out the student handbook for that. Obviously, I mean without breaking other rules in the process. I took an F once but didn't disrupt or disrespect the teacher so no punishment from the school side of things and it didn't bring down my GPA significantly.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:53:31 GMT -5
.. at the end of the day, I want this kid to actually succeed in school and life so I have to find a way to work with his teachers and get whatever help I can from that side. With that being said: I would encourage you to bring in the special ed team (since you indicated he had an IEP I have to assume he is being served by them) to help identify what is going on in this particular class that is not allowing him to be as successful as he is in his other classes. Are there accommodations that the teacher needs to make? Teachers vary greatly in their ability/skill to understand and adapt to students with differing needs. This one might just need some special help in meeting your son's needs and getting it could really help with her growth as a teacher. I already have a call in to the school counselor to clarify a few things we discussed last week and will try to get in touch with the rest of the IEP team/coordinator and see if something is missing or getting missed.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jan 30, 2017 16:55:40 GMT -5
I also think the difference between what I'm hearing Chocolate Lover saying is that it's not up to the teacher, but more if the teacher can't get him to do his work in class what is mom going to do? My mom asked a similar question to teacher about me once. In essence it was "Look it's your classroom, I certainly can't control what goes on in there it's your job to manage it. Just like I don't expect you to manage things in my home." In the sense that each needs to be in charge in their own areas. But if I read correctly this is the only class that he's failing. I'd confirm that with the other teachers and then find out from him what's going on. This is pretty much it. With the question is there something that happens on the teacher end that I can't do at home? I hope she has the option of some form of punishment, but I'm not sure she does. It's not against any school rules that I've ever read to fail a class. You get your F and you go on with life. Right? Agree with your thoughts on this. There is only so much you can do. And it is middle school. I would suspect there might be some consequences to getting an F - maybe like summer school? That will be fun!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:56:27 GMT -5
This is pretty much it. With the question is there something that happens on the teacher end that I can't do at home? I hope she has the option of some form of punishment, but I'm not sure she does. It's not against any school rules that I've ever read to fail a class. You get your F and you go on with life. Right? Agree with your thoughts on this. There is only so much you can do. And it is middle school. I would suspect there might be some consequences to getting an F - maybe like summer school? That will be fun!For all of us!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2017 16:58:44 GMT -5
Oh, fun fact, DH is home today and just found the last report card. The high D I remember isn't this class at all. It was the 2nd quarter grade in another class, and he got out of the semester with a C. He's had a B for the 1st half of the year in the class he's now failing.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jan 30, 2017 18:21:46 GMT -5
From a teacher perspective (I teach 8th grade) I can pretty much threaten and bribe if a student isn't doing his work but isn't breaking any other rules. Punishment is pretty much out, the only punishment there is will be giving the kid a 0 for the assignment. Now if the child is disruptive or disrespectful that is different. The only real threat I have, (and that isn't even really a threat but more of just making the kid aware of the consequences) by letting the parents know that the child is failing due to not completing work. What I can hope for is that the parents will have a way to motivate the kid to do their work as they can punish for low grades or zeros which I can't. At the very least discuss it with the child so they know that the parents and I are in communication. Who knows maybe the parents will get something from the kid that I didn't on a reason why. My school does have a 30 min time that is used for extension/remediation. So if the kid is in an extension choice that they enjoy I can pull them for that as time make up the missing work, but if the kid is in a remediation already that is out. If the parents ask for the work to make up at home I will get packets together for the parents to have. I have also been known to scan and email the missing work to the parents when the bus eats it.
I do have have small candy I can reward with at times. I also will give free time to students who have finished their work to a satisfactory level and still have a few mins in class. If it is not satisfactory and there is still time in class I will hand it back for them to redo it.
As a case manger for SPED, I will check with teachers to make sure accommodations are being done. This position gives me a bit more power in pulling kids from class to get work done or having one of my assistant pull a kid for help that a regular teacher does not have.
As for the first email- I would think it was a combination of CYA herself in case you come back with why did no one tell me he was failing. And waiting to see how much you wanted to do, not do to try and correct this problem with him not doing his work. If the parent is willing to work with me at home, such as reward/punish for not completing work, and getting the make up work done at home I will get the stuff together and continue discussion with the parent. Hopefully together we can get a change done. If the parent is more of a there is nothing we can do and let him fail, I will still continue to do all I can in my classroom but I will also know that it is unlikely things will change.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jan 30, 2017 19:27:38 GMT -5
I think the above post is good.
The thing is, is that parents can do more as far as punishments go at home. They can take away phone privileges, or computer time, they can ground them from going out with friends until their homework is done, they can do some yelling (actually worked for me growing up), but a teacher is pretty limited in what they can and can't do.
It sounds like you are looking into counseling which is great! At my school though I'm not even allowed to recommend counseling, i'm actually not allowed to recommend anything and this INCLUDES saying something like "I suggest reading more with your child," because then you're accusing the parent of not already doing so. >.> it's kind of crazy... my hands are really tied when parents ask me questions, and most generally if it's an attitude behavior, I can tell them what their child is doing in school, but then immediately I have to go to, "If you want to seek more advice on how to help your child behavior wise...go see a Doctor" I can't make any suggestions even if I'm asked in regards to behavior. Were also not allowed to take kids away from recess or anything and the only punishment we have in my school is basically to contact the parents or send them to the Principal... >.>
If they ask me how they can help their child catch up I can suggest tutors, reading homework, staying after class to help them...but it has to literally be in regards to helping a grade and not a behavior...even if that child's reasons for a failing grade is behavior. -_-
This is probably why you saw me frustrated earlier. They're not this strict at all schools, but my school is WAY strict that I have to be very bare minimum and I can't offer up information unless asked for it.
I get so irritated because I am WILLING to work with kids at recess, or after school, I stay at least two hours every day after school and I'm willing to help... but I can't even SUGGEST to parents that their child should stay after for help unless they ask me first, or they come asking me questions about their child's grades. Ugh. And some parents don't care so I have to sit by and watch a child struggle with parents that don't care enough to ask for help... and when a kid asks me I literally have to basically tell them to ask their parents if I can help them aka keep them after class or from play time... I can only do so much during class time... I'm fortunate though that we have a lot of helpers so sometimes I can send them in groups to get help but sometimes it isn't enough...
So that's probably why ya got some of my flailing earlier, >.>
You could always contact the Principal and get a sit in with the Principal, and the teacher, and yourself because the Principal is at liberty to say more and discuss plans, and ways to get your child more engaged in the classroom. It's also a good indicator if the teacher's just not helping because they don't care, of if their hands our tied so they're treading carefully... if the Principals there...they'll probably offer more ideas, it's a security blanket for both you and the teacher. The teacher because items they can't answer the Principal is there to explain so it doesn't just seem like laziness from the teacher, and you because if the teacher isn't being helpful or willing to work with you BOOM you already have the Principal in the know and if they truly just don't care they'll be watching them closely...HOPEFULLY.... if the principals a good Principal and all
Or if not the Principal... get sometime for a counselor and the teacher and yourself because maybe the counselor will understand a behavior better and be able to help you deal with this at home and help the teacher understand your child better in order to try to get them doing their work more. There's things counselors are more equip at diagnosing and understanding as they took different classes in school to get a different view on students and such that teachers and parents may not grasp.
In my entire college career I only had TWO classes, TWO that were required dealing with student behavior and psychological behavior... because most were just "This is how you teach this," and not giving good lessons on what happens when things don't go according to plan and you just walk in having to learn by yourself and other teachers. I did take some more classes on my own for elective classes but it wasn't required.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 23:24:50 GMT -5
I also think the difference between what I'm hearing Chocolate Lover saying is that it's not up to the teacher, but more if the teacher can't get him to do his work in class what is mom going to do? My mom asked a similar question to teacher about me once. In essence it was "Look it's your classroom, I certainly can't control what goes on in there it's your job to manage it. Just like I don't expect you to manage things in my home." In the sense that each needs to be in charge in their own areas. But if I read correctly this is the only class that he's failing. I'd confirm that with the other teachers and then find out from him what's going on. My story from Jr High: In 7th grade I started to fail geography class. Now a lot of years later I have no idea why I started failing. But once I did things went down hill fast. The teacher wrote me off, I hated the teacher, there was a point I just couldn't get caught up, and so on... At the end of a disastrous parent/teacher conference my mom came home and told me I could fail the entire year for all she cared. But I had damn well better make B's in everything else. Which I did, and can confirm that I haven't suffered any long term affects from failing 7th grade geography. So I can see where CL is coming from on this one. This is me in 9th grade Biology. Except as Daddy-O was a teacher, I was not given the option that you were. I was told I had to take the damn book home every night, whether I had homework or not. Friggin' thing weighed about 10 pounds. It was a heavy-ass book. Now I remember why I hate biology.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 12:55:13 GMT -5
Kolt! and geenamercile, thank you for the responses. I will always do what I can on my end to help out, and you confirmed what I suspected. I wish teachers didn't get so restricted sometimes. If I remember I'll report back on how this works out. DS keeps swearing that he's doing the work and turning it in. (I doubt it, but he's sticking to the story) I told him that if that's the case he needs to talk to this teacher and make sure he's putting it in the right place and figure out what's going wrong. I don't buy it, but we'll see if he actually talks to her (I gave her a head's up by email last night after he refused to let that story go). Sigh.....
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 31, 2017 13:03:17 GMT -5
I once got a bad grade for sloppy work which kept me off the track team temporary. I had perfect work but knew the guy behind me was sloppy. It was a drafting class so the work was your drawings. I knew the teacher confused us. No chance to question teachers back then.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 14:08:28 GMT -5
There's not much leeway to question them now, but I want to see if he can handle talking to her on his own behalf without doing something stupid. I still don't know why he thinks I believe the turning it in story. He's been turning in work for half a year and had a B up until now. I doubt she changed the spot to put it.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Jan 31, 2017 14:13:53 GMT -5
There's not much leeway to question them now, but I want to see if he can handle talking to her on his own behalf without doing something stupid. I still don't know why he thinks I believe the turning it in story. He's been turning in work for half a year and had a B up until now. I doubt she changed the spot to put it. Because he's a kid and thinks you don't know anything. KWIM?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 14:15:38 GMT -5
There's not much leeway to question them now, but I want to see if he can handle talking to her on his own behalf without doing something stupid. I still don't know why he thinks I believe the turning it in story. He's been turning in work for half a year and had a B up until now. I doubt she changed the spot to put it. Because he's a kid and thinks you don't know anything. KWIM? Oh I know, and he loves to try his luck. I'm just real sick of the attempts to blame anyone but himself. It's getting old and happens a lot more than it does with your average kid, in my experience. At least other kids know not to lie about something you just saw them do.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jan 31, 2017 14:18:15 GMT -5
I hate dealing with the school at this point. 99% of it is pointless. I can't make DS do anything when he isn't with me. And some of the procedures are designed to make recording grades easier not to help the students learn or to help them firgure out what their work is. I know it is supposed to but in real life it rarely is. My son's school is totally on line. Except when it isn't. Some teachers insist on handing out homework papers. So that paper is most probably fallen to the ground and stepped on long before the end of the day let alone the next day when it has to be handed in. But if you ask the guidance counselor absolutely everything is online. Some teachers do the put all work for the week online for Monday morning. But about half only post it after they grade it. So when they ask if I keep up I honestly say I didn't see it. It took a few months this year to figure out that the homework for 1/23 was posted on 1/27 after it was marked missing. At which point I get sarcastic and answer the guidance counselor honestly that I didn't know on 1/22 that homework was going to post on 1/27 that had to be handed in on 1/23. One teacher, who is nice but dippy, keeps editing his post from the first day of school. So when I look at the "Feed" for classes and homework his never show up in the timeline. I finally figured out that his were dated from Sept. My son's grades are almost crazy when I read them. He literally has two number grades for everything in all his classes, a 100 or a zero. And probably at least half the time the zeros he actually did the work just forgot, lost or didn't care to hand it in. Still not sure what to do with that.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jan 31, 2017 14:24:55 GMT -5
CL I have started one thing that has helped a little. The schools has an online account that has logins for both students and parents. So if you didn't get yours I would start by having your son log in with his login every night and let you read it that way. My experience is they are the exact same feed just with different logins. So while it wouldn't show as you it would still give you the same info. The second thing I do is sometimes check during the day. If I see something pop up that should have been done or handed in I write an email in his Gmail to himself. Literally just compose and send an email from him to him. The subject line though will be "DS hand in your math homework! Mom" I has worked the few times I did it and caught him before he had the class. Good luck!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 14:25:34 GMT -5
I hate dealing with the school at this point. 99% of it is pointless. I can't make DS do anything when he isn't with me. And some of the procedures are designed to make recording grades easier not to help the students learn or to help them firgure out what their work is. I know it is supposed to but in real life it rarely is. My son's school is totally on line. Except when it isn't. Some teachers insist on handing out homework papers. So that paper is most probably fallen to the ground and stepped on long before the end of the day let alone the next day when it has to be handed in. But if you ask the guidance counselor absolutely everything is online. Some teachers do the put all work for the week online for Monday morning. But about half only post it after they grade it. So when they ask if I keep up I honestly say I didn't see it. It took a few months this year to figure out that the homework for 1/23 was posted on 1/27 after it was marked missing. At which point I get sarcastic and answer the guidance counselor honestly that I didn't know on 1/22 that homework was going to post on 1/27 that had to be handed in on 1/23. One teacher, who is nice but dippy, keeps editing his post from the first day of school. So when I look at the "Feed" for classes and homework his never show up in the timeline. I finally figured out that his were dated from Sept. My son's grades are almost crazy when I read them. He literally has two number grades for everything in all his classes, a 100 or a zero. And probably at least half the time the zeros he actually did the work just forgot, lost or didn't care to hand it in. Still not sure what to do with that. Oh good lord... that sounds frustrating. It is. IDK if hers has the attitude problem mine does but I'm sure they were separated at birth!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 14:26:49 GMT -5
CL I have started one thing that has helped a little. The schools has an online account that has logins for both students and parents. So if you didn't get yours I would start by having your son log in with his login every night and let you read it that way. My experience is they are the exact same feed just with different logins. So while it wouldn't show as you it would still give you the same info. The second thing I do is sometimes check during the day. If I see something pop up that should have been done or handed in I write an email in his Gmail to himself. Literally just compose and send an email from him to him. The subject line though will be "DS hand in your math homework! Mom" I has worked the few times I did it and caught him before he had the class. Good luck! But I don't wanna add to my workload!!! <<insert tantrum emoji here>>
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jan 31, 2017 14:49:03 GMT -5
Oh good lord... that sounds frustrating. It is. IDK if hers has the attitude problem mine does but I'm sure they were separated at birth! Well he never lies but he also doesn't care about most of it. And he gets put in the average classes instead of advanced because he doesn't hand in his work. So while he isn't normally disruptive it has happened a few times when he was forced to work with a group and the group didn't understand something he thought was easy but they didn't know so had to go around and around on until his head exploded. And I am a very bad mother!! I have laughed a few times as the principal went on to explain what he did which I know i was supposed to be horrified by. One time they had to do this stupid project on scatter plots. And the others in the group kept arguing about how it should be and he knew the right way and eventually they took a vote and the right way lost. He is a nice and kind kid but his head just about exploded so one girl explained nicely that they just learned this and there are different opinions on how to do it. He proceeded to scream that "they had done this exact project in third grade, then they did it in fourth grade then they did it again in fifth grade and sixth grade and now were doing it AGAIN in seventh grade and if they didn't figure it out the first four times they should have just let him do by himself because everyone knows he knows all this." I swear to God I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants. The worst part is a couple of the students actually told the others in the group that they were stupid for not just letting him do it since they all did know he was smarter. I have days I feel like Sheldon Cooper's mom on TBBT. I have actually had to tell him it is okay to be smarter than everyone else but you can't say it.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 31, 2017 14:54:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I have a hard time not laughing sometimes. Most of the time though, he's done something he shouldn't have. No self control, and no control of his temper once he's mad. Hence the counseling. You think I can get them to medicate me?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jan 31, 2017 15:08:44 GMT -5
CL I do get mad about some stuff but most of the time it is more stupid. And it does get hard to take a teacher complaint seriously when I ask what the grades are and even with the zeros he has a 94. I will say that he almost never gets mad. I didn't even know he had an anger setting until recently and it wasn't about anything like this. A boy started picking on a girl friend of his. His issues are the forgetting things, getting totally wrapped up in things to the point I have actually worried he could die in a fire because he didn't realize it was happening until too late. And the making noises. That one is probably the most annoying one to everyone and the one that is basically impossible to fix. If he actually tries he can stop but it requires him to basically not do anything else or put duct tape over his mouth. Even then I think he would still be making those sub vocalizations but at least it might be less noisy. The other thing he has had problems is with time management. He is late to EVERYTHING. The teachers refuse to say get going or you are going to be late so he was late to almost every class for the first two months. He isn't fooling around he is just SO SLOW. And his process because of his OCD is longer than it needs to be. I will say that his friends have been the biggest help! Even with his outburt they are always nice and helpful. A couple of kids in his classes took it upon themselves to grab him and make him leave with them to the next class on time with them so he wouldn't get in trouble.
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