The Problems Ex-Cons Face!

[OldCoyote]

I am beginning to see why so many ex-con fail to stay out of jail,

The young man that works for me, Just can't seem to get a break!

I an effort to get his drivers license back, he had to pay old fines, so O.C.dug into his pocket, paid that series of fines,  there are more to pa,

but this would let him get his license back, we thought,,,,,,,,,,,, Drug and alcohol counseling now,   more money..

Even though he went thru six month of classes while in jail for this,,,, Guess what now that doesn't count,,,,

Even I am starting to get worn down over the continuing bridges that pop up because just because some bureaucrat decides that it should be done.

If I was not helping him, I don't see how he would ever make thru this!

Yesterday, he his girlfriend was bringing him to work, (Most of the time I pick him up and drop him off,) he calls, the car broke down!!

Later he text me a picture, a rod thru the side of the engine, This man just can't get a break!!

We are working today, tomorrow I will buy him a car!

 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

You are a good man OC.  You have a point, without your help this guy might have to turn to crime. I don't have an answer for getting ex-cons who want to stay straight back into society.

[OldCoyote]

Well he crashed and burned today,   I was on the way to pick him up this morning, he called, said he was moving all his stuff home,(Mom's house)

It was a breakup with a woman last time also.

I called early afternoon, his speech was not normal, I can't say it was slurred , Maybe I had woke him from a deep sleep, I don't know.

I stewed about it for a while, decided that I was not let him crash,   Called him back, Told him I don't care what your problems are!!

Get your ass together, I will pickup you up in the morning.

I was pissed.

He said he would be ready.

We shall see.

[dannylion]

It seems like a significant portion of his problems are self-inflicted.

You can only do so much. At some point, whether he succeeds or fails is on him and the choices he makes, just like where he is now is the product of the choices he made in the past.

[Deleted]

It's not always the system bringing people down.

[giramomma]

Jan 31, 2017 0:28:09 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Well he crashed and burned today,   I was on the way to pick him up this morning, he called, said he was moving all his stuff home,(Mom's house)

It was a breakup with a woman last time also.

I called early afternoon, his speech was not normal, I can't say it was slurred , Maybe I had woke him from a deep sleep, I don't know.

I stewed about it for a while, decided that I was not let him crash,   Called him back, Told him I don't care what your problems are!!

Get your ass together, I will pickup you up in the morning.

I was pissed.

He said he would be ready.

We shall see.

I think you need to be careful.

When you say "Decided that I was not let him crash." That's textbook co-dependent behavior.

IOW, your relationship with this kid is becoming unhealthy.

If this kid is an adult, then he's and adult. You don't "Make" or "let" adults do other things.

Be careful, otherwise you are going to be part of the problem, not the solution.

[zibazinski]

You can't help someone who doesn't want to help them self.

[OldCoyote]

When I call, he was ready to go to work. we put in a full day.

A another note, As I posted that his thirteen y.o.brother was arrested with 27 guns, yesterday I got a little more of the story.

There was four of them, Some women reported to police that these kids were sleeping in a pickup truck in a center,

The was two 18 y.o. a fourteen y.o. and his brother in the truck,       The truck was stolen, there was 27 guns and $4000. cash in the truck!

the two eighteen y.o.'s were sentenced to four years each, the fourteen y.o. and his brother were sent to junie hall for eight months!

My young man also told me that almost every kid in his old neighborhood 9y.o. up to 17y.o. has a gun!!

Only 2 out of 10 know how to use it!

He only worked a little while last Sat. because it was the 1 year memorial of his BIL being gunned down on his door step.

[Angel!]

I spent over 5 years trying to save my ex from the broken system.  The problem is that it wasn't just the system that was broken.  Yes, the counseling costs and fees and everything else are horrendous once your are in the system.  It is very hard to get out.  But, I was there every step of the way trying to help, paying fees, driving him to and from classes.  All he had to do was act like a grown up - keep a job & stay clean.  In the end it wasn't the system that kept him down, but his own poor choices.

You can't save someone that isn't working to save themselves.  Yes, he has a tough life and everything is rigged against him.  But I would bet you anything his speech wasn't abnormal due to sleep.  Be careful, you'll fall into a codependent relationship where you feel it is your job to save him.  You will spend a lot time & money helping & helping.  You will keep feeling sorry for him as he keeps catching bad breaks & that keeps you helping.  But, if he isn't interested in staying clean & making good choice, then nothing you do really matters.  Your just helping him avoid the consequences of his actions for a little longer.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

He only worked a little while last Sat. because it was the 1 year memorial of his BIL being gunned down on his door step.

This is going to make me sound like an asshole but I don't get to decide I am done working on the day my grandfather died.   I have to finish my job if I want to keep it.

It sounds like he always has a reason why he can't show up to work.   His car broke down, he broke up with his girlfriend, his BIL died a year ago.   What is the next reason he won't be able to come into work.

I've seen a lot of research about how hard it is to get out of the criminal justice system in America.  I agree that there are quite a few roadblocks that make it difficult to become a functioning member of society.

That is not this guy's problem.   If you are not careful he's going to milk the "Oh I am a poor convict who can't catch a break" angle for all it's worth till you got nothing left to give.

[zibazinski]

Has he paid you back for all the money you spent on him?

[Green Eyed Lady]

I have to agree with Drama. I would add to her "hard to get out of the criminal justice system in America" with "it's also hard to get into it". You have to work pretty hard to go to prison unless you do something heinous right out of the gate. Then, I can't say I have much sympathy anyway.

The point is, yes....it's hard. Why should it be easier than getting into it? I know hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps people should consider these things before doing things that get them sent to prison. I don't get most of the day off on the anniversary of my Dad's death.  And no, losing my father was no less devastating than if he'd been shot on my porch.

If you want to help this man, and I truly believe you do, buy him some big boy undies and quit caving in to his various and sundry excuses.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 1, 2017 13:00:30 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

He only worked a little while last Sat. because it was the 1 year memorial of his BIL being gunned down on his door step.

This is going to make me sound like an asshole but I don't get to decide I am done working on the day my grandfather died.   I have to finish my job if I want to keep it.

It sounds like he always has a reason why he can't show up to work.   His car broke down, he broke up with his girlfriend, his BIL died a year ago.   What is the next reason he won't be able to come into work.

I've seen a lot of research about how hard it is to get out of the criminal justice system in America.  I agree that there are quite a few roadblocks that make it difficult to become a functioning member of society.

That is not this guy's problem.   If you are not careful he's going to milk the "Oh I am a poor convict who can't catch a break" angle for all it's worth till you got nothing left to give.

You aren't an asshole.  I don't ever remember taking the day off (or working any less) on the anniversary of EITHER of my parent's deaths.

Sorry, OC.....I think that this guy is playing you.

[Angel!]

Feb 1, 2017 13:10:03 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have to agree with Drama. I would add to her "hard to get out of the criminal justice system in America" with "it's also hard to get into it". You have to work pretty hard to go to prison unless you do something heinous right out of the gate. Then, I can't say I have much sympathy anyway.

The point is, yes....it's hard. Why should it be easier than getting into it? I know hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps people should consider these things before doing things that get them sent to prison. I don't get most of the day off on the anniversary of my Dad's death.  And no, losing my father was no less devastating than if he'd been shot on my porch.

If you want to help this man, and I truly believe you do, buy him some big boy undies and quit caving in to his various and sundry excuses.

Depends on what you consider "hard".  Since this guys lost his license and needs drug & alcohol counseling, it is possible that just 1-2 DUIs that got him in this much trouble.  Probably followed by not following probation & getting in trouble again, perhaps multiple times.  It takes some stupid decisions to get a couple of DUIs, but it certainly isn't hard.  One is all it takes to make your life really difficult.  

Of course, the other stories regarding people in his life with guns & such...it could have been much more than just a DUI.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Feb 1, 2017 13:21:43 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Feb 1, 2017 13:10:03 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have to agree with Drama. I would add to her "hard to get out of the criminal justice system in America" with "it's also hard to get into it". You have to work pretty hard to go to prison unless you do something heinous right out of the gate. Then, I can't say I have much sympathy anyway.

The point is, yes....it's hard. Why should it be easier than getting into it? I know hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps people should consider these things before doing things that get them sent to prison. I don't get most of the day off on the anniversary of my Dad's death.  And no, losing my father was no less devastating than if he'd been shot on my porch.

If you want to help this man, and I truly believe you do, buy him some big boy undies and quit caving in to his various and sundry excuses.

Depends on what you consider "hard".  Since this guys lost his license and needs drug & alcohol counseling, it is possible that just 1-2 DUIs that got him in this much trouble.  Probably followed by not following probation & getting in trouble again, perhaps multiple times.  It takes some stupid decisions to get a couple of DUIs, but it certainly isn't hard.  One is all it takes to make your life really difficult.  

Of course, the other stories regarding people in his life with guns & such...it could have been much more than just a DUI.

Obviously, State laws vary, but where I live, you'd have to be on like 3 DUIs before all of this would be necessary.  You have to work hard to get 3 DUIs.  You have to work hard at refusing to learn a lesson.  You have to work hard to convince yourself you won't get caught.  You have to work hard to convince yourself not to follow the rules of probation and/or getting in further trouble.  This is a tough process.  You have to work hard to come up with excuses not to go to your counseling/evaluation and get it over with.  An "easy" process is to say "I won't drink and drive anymore."  That's easy.  The other way is not easy.  But?  It can be done.

Plus, OP at least sort of said this guy is an ex-con.  That means he's been in prison.  People don't go to prison for a DUI....or even two of them.  Three?  You are probably pushing the limits with a judge.  You have to work pretty hard at not obeying the law to get to prison.  I agree, some of this can be chalked up to stupidity, but it's not easy being stupid either - or so I've heard. 

[Bob Ross]

It all boils down to whether or not he has a neck tattoo.

If he has a neck tattoo, then he is a lost cause beyond saving.

[OldCoyote]

I have to retract my statement that he crashed burned, It turns out he must have the flu,

When I picked him up for work, first place we went was the drugstore for Kleenex and cold medicine,

He was miserable , he worked a half day I took him home.

He was feel good today, we put in eleven hours.

[OldCoyote]

Feb 2, 2017 10:12:40 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

It all boils down to whether or not he has a neck tattoo.

If he has a neck tattoo, then he is a lost cause beyond saving.

That and a bunch others!

I have not seen them all but ones that I know about are the names and birthdates of his children.

[zibazinski]

Does he pay child support? Has he paid you back?

[raeoflyte]

There aren't any easy answers.  I agree that you should have boundaries.  I don't agree that he can't have an off day at work on the anniversary of a violent crime committed against a family member that resulted in death.  If he is getting the job done within the time frames allotted I don't understand why anyone from this board cares if he put in 2 8 hour days, or a 4 hour day and then a 12 hour day.  

My elementary school friend who moved back but is homeless and really struggling is on parole (I just found this out) which meant she couldn't get into a group home, or get on the section 8 waiting list.  I have no idea what its for, but its not that hard to realize that someone with mental illness tries drugs and alcohol to feel better, so that seems likely.  I have been messaging with her to look into rooms for rent that she can afford on her disability check without any assistance, and that there are at least a few listed on craigslist.  I don't know how likely it is that she'll find one that would rent to her, and I'm not offering much in the way of help at least not until she actually finds one.  I would pay a small deposit for her, or buy her a mini fridge and microwave and a mattress although I haven't mentioned any of that yet.  

The list of bad decisions on her part is painfully long and with no resources digging out seems impossible, even to me from the outside.  I can't imagine what it is like to be the one in that situation.  

[tskeeter]

Feb 6, 2017 11:37:04 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

There aren't any easy answers.  I agree that you should have boundaries.  I don't agree that he can't have an off day at work on the anniversary of a violent crime committed against a family member that resulted in death.  If he is getting the job done within the time frames allotted I don't understand why anyone from this board cares if he put in 2 8 hour days, or a 4 hour day and then a 12 hour day.  

My elementary school friend who moved back but is homeless and really struggling is on parole (I just found this out) which meant she couldn't get into a group home, or get on the section 8 waiting list.  I have no idea what its for, but its not that hard to realize that someone with mental illness tries drugs and alcohol to feel better, so that seems likely.  I have been messaging with her to look into rooms for rent that she can afford on her disability check without any assistance, and that there are at least a few listed on craigslist.  I don't know how likely it is that she'll find one that would rent to her, and I'm not offering much in the way of help at least not until she actually finds one.  I would pay a small deposit for her, or buy her a mini fridge and microwave and a mattress although I haven't mentioned any of that yet.  

The list of bad decisions on her part is painfully long and with no resources digging out seems impossible, even to me from the outside.  I can't imagine what it is like to be the one in that situation.  

Rae, I hope your boundaries are well ingrained, too.  In my experience, folks with mental stability issues have a way of sucking you into their drama.  It's like a black hole that sucks in everything or everyone who gets too close.

[raeoflyte]

Feb 6, 2017 19:07:23 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Feb 6, 2017 11:37:04 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

There aren't any easy answers.  I agree that you should have boundaries.  I don't agree that he can't have an off day at work on the anniversary of a violent crime committed against a family member that resulted in death.  If he is getting the job done within the time frames allotted I don't understand why anyone from this board cares if he put in 2 8 hour days, or a 4 hour day and then a 12 hour day.  

My elementary school friend who moved back but is homeless and really struggling is on parole (I just found this out) which meant she couldn't get into a group home, or get on the section 8 waiting list.  I have no idea what its for, but its not that hard to realize that someone with mental illness tries drugs and alcohol to feel better, so that seems likely.  I have been messaging with her to look into rooms for rent that she can afford on her disability check without any assistance, and that there are at least a few listed on craigslist.  I don't know how likely it is that she'll find one that would rent to her, and I'm not offering much in the way of help at least not until she actually finds one.  I would pay a small deposit for her, or buy her a mini fridge and microwave and a mattress although I haven't mentioned any of that yet.  

The list of bad decisions on her part is painfully long and with no resources digging out seems impossible, even to me from the outside.  I can't imagine what it is like to be the one in that situation.  

Rae, I hope your boundaries are well ingrained, too.  In my experience, folks with mental stability issues have a way of sucking you into their drama.  It's like a black hole that sucks in everything or everyone who gets too close.

Besides the guilt my boundaries are holding strong.  I made a personal decision to focus on my family (in addition to dh and the kids, my parents, sister, and grandparents while they were living) over friends several years ago.  If I don't have time to spend a few hours hanging out with friends I'm close to, I definitely don't have time to spend time with a friend I haven't seen since I was 8.  

I would like to see her get off the streets, and I'd offer a small amount of financial assistance to do that (if she does all the work of getting it done first).  That's about all I have in me right now, but I do have great amounts of empathy when I think of her.  

[naughtybear]

I don't think offering some cash is a bad call, but I would only do it once and make it for groceries or straight to where it needs to go Rae. Having a sister that has always been needy and a mother with emotional issues I have become very hardened to sob stories.



..and by needy I mean drugs jail etc it was the politest way to put it.

[Opti]

Feb 3, 2017 23:41:46 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

I have to retract my statement that he crashed burned, It turns out he must have the flu,

When I picked him up for work, first place we went was the drugstore for Kleenex and cold medicine,

He was miserable , he worked a half day I took him home.

He was feel good today, we put in eleven hours.

You are a good boss OC. Kudos.

[OldCoyote]

As usual O.C is running out of patience with the system.

In the process to get a driver license for this man, the hoops that are never ending!

On Dec. 27th, the period of revocation was over,  First was the fines that need paid,

O.c. reached into his pocket, $585.86 to start some kind of payment plan,,   Nope something went wrong,  $586.86 is just gone!!

We start over, There is paperwork that is needed, it is filled out, sent in,,,,, We hear nothing,,,

After some weeks we are told that he should have not been given the paperwork, it should have been done internally,,, Sigh,

Now we have drug and alcohol counseling, $185.  The six month class that he took in prison was for nothing,    Sigh,

Now, there goes another $580. tho start the payment plan,,, Again,,,Sigh,  

Let's see what the reason why this is not going to work, coming up,

OK,OK,,,, supposedly the nowwww, internal paperwork has been signed and notarized,,,, I will believe it when I see it,,Sigh,

Doesn't anyone  in government know what they doing,,,, I mean not only here but almost every time I deal with them,,, Sigh,

I truly think this system is designed to make Ex-cons go back to jail,,,I know that I am almost done with it!!!

[debthaven]

O.c. reached into his pocket, $585.86 to start some kind of payment plan,, Nope something went wrong, $586.86 is just gone!!

You don't have any receipt or proof of payment? Did you pay for (whatever) yourself, or give that money to your friend?

You're very generous OC ... I hope you're not being taken advantage of.

[naughtybear]

I hope that OC didn't just hand this guy the money and now it's gone. That would be enough for me to be to kick him to the curb at that point.

[OldCoyote]

It is not just dealing with this....

Three months ago, I  received a letter saying the account that sent payment to had been canceled,  What!!!!!!!!!!

I had been making sales tax payments to this account for almost twenty nine years,,,,Sigh,

The State,on the first of the year(2016) started a new policy where you could be classified as a contractor instead of as a retailer.

Believe me it is screwed up,, So I changed my status, same account just different status. 

I now paid any sales tax when I pick up what ever it is, That's great,,,Except since I bring in stuff from outside the State that I need to pay tax on.

Some one cancel the account,  I go in to reopen the account , they need sales tax reports for 2002 and 2003, !!!!! 2002, 2003!!

They say that these were never received,  CRAP, where am I going to find these reports, Sigh,

Wait a minute,, You audited me for 2002, 2003 2004,  

That doesn't make any difference, we need these reports, I say thank you, leave,,,Sigh,

I wait a couple of minutes, Take my place in in,line talk to another person, again they need the reports from 02,03,

I say you audited me for 02,03,04!  She said hmmmm, OK we will reinstate this account, I say Thank you!

My question is, why did we have to do "ANY" of this??   Wasted hours on both sides of the fence!!!!Sigh,

Here is a question for you bean counters,   If I pickup a piece of equipment for hauling it off.

clean it up, sell it for $6000. what tax is to be paid ?  

[OldCoyote]

I could be being taken to the cleaner by him,  I trust him I have known him for quite awhile

I also know a lot of his family.

But the end is near, if the State doesn't get their ass in gear soon I am done...

I need some one with a drivers license,   I wonder if he will survive against the system without me??

[Nazgul Girl]

   Thank you for helping this guy, OC.   I hope things work out successfully for both of you !