Swasat spin off thread...hate it when...

[Rukh O'Rorke]

So, I was thinking about that and my thought was....are there some people who you just don't discuss certain topics with because of their reactions?

And then I recalled a certain someone in my life I am avoiding a particular topic of conversation, and I realized they will eventually find out and then it will be awkward to have not been talking about it.

So. How do you maintain cordiality? Or honesty?

But also avoid reactions or conversations that are not desirable?

[gs11rmb]

I'm staunchly pro-choice and I would never raise the subject with my in-laws. If asked, I wouldn't hesitate to say that I'm pro-choice but I wouldn't initiate the conversation. Of course, my in-laws are total sweethearts so I can't imagine them raising the subject with me in the first place .

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've thought about asking my SIL which "government bennies" I am supposed to be getting and am missing out on since she is so insistent that those are the sole reason anyone would vote for Obama or Clinton.   It's nice to read what she thinks of me and my husband.

But I don't out of respect for DH.

We don't see each other often, pretty much just at family/holiday gatherings.   There is no need to bring up Facebook trolling during the holidays.   There is plenty to talk about that doesn't involve politics so it's easy to steer clear of the topic offline.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Jan 24, 2017 20:13:29 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

So, I was thinking about that and my thought was....are there some people who you just don't discuss certain topics with because of their reactions?

And then I recalled a certain someone in my life I am avoiding a particular topic of conversation, and I realized they will eventually find out and then it will be awkward to have not been talking about it.

So. How do you maintain cordiality? Or honesty?

But also avoid reactions or conversations that are not desirable?

Been there, done that. When it happened, I was honest and said I didn't want to bring it up because it would cause hard feelings and I didn't want that. 

All I accomplished was putting of the hard feelings for awhile.

[giramomma]

You find safe topics. The weather, sports, pop culture. I usually try to prepare.

I also find that if you just keep doing the asking of the questions, and the other person responds, the other person doesn't think about asking you how you feel about anything because they are too busy talking.

I find it interesting that you ask about honesty. I can have a perfectly lovely conversation about Breaking Bad, the weather, football, baseball, and some college sports, my hobbies, etc. That doesn't make me dishonest in any way.

I was raised in an environment where if you had boundaries, then you were accused of being dishonest and hiding something. To the point, where I couldn't expect privacy in the bathroom as a teen. To ask to have basic bathroom privacy would have meant that I was hiding something to my parents.

I have boundaries with how much non-sexual intimacy I have with folks. We all do. Some people are safe people for me to share with, and some aren't.

My refusing to have non-sexual intimacy with a person that isn't safe to do so isn't me being dishonest. It's me being emotionally healthy.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I guess in my situation - I had issues with this person's emotional reactions to my *relatively minor* accomplishments. This is in regards to progress towards my phd, which she is also working on hers.

She has used me as a pace car for her own work - having a complete meltdown if I make progress towards a milestone she has not, and then lording her accomplishments over me if she edges me out. And - I just didn't want to talk about it with her anymore. I don't need outside motivations. I try to work at least 1-2 hours a day on my dissertation, and after a while, those small bits do add up.

I had tested out giving her a small piece of positive news about my progress on step 1, but she still reacted in terms of what this means to her vs me, rather than something of mine.

So I decided that I wasn't going to share my progress anymore. She assumes I am behind her as I await committee approval on step 1, but I have actually completed my first draft of the next step while waiting to hear about the committee decisions on the last one, and my advisor will give me the first round of comments in a week or so. 

But at some point it is going to be revealed, and then I expect a completely meltdown like last time I made a milestone well before her. 

But after thinking about this due to Swasat's thread - Now - I feel like I'm hiding something, like I'm being shady or sneaky. It also means I can't share my good news/milestones with mutual friends. 

I just don't want to deal with her emotional downward spiral. We work together, and she was a mess last time I submitted something: she wouldn't do her job, worked all day on her school work at work and did the bare minimum (which of course, makes more work for the rest of us) and also stayed up until midnight-1am every night until she caught up to me, coming in to work late, cranky, and hardly even being civil to people in casual conversations.... cuz she had to rush back to her computer....

I guess it is going to happen at some point. Now - not sure if delaying it as long as possible is the right way to go.

[giramomma]

I'm pretty mum about quite a bit at work.

Me having a third job during my lunch hour, me going back to school, it's on a need to know basis. Not everyone needs to know that my family had financial issues or that I'm seriously worried about how things are going to hell in a handbasket.

My immediate team is now down to three (from 5). One of my team members is getting a divorce. She chose not to share with me. She shared with everyone else on my immediate team. It's fine. I'm not hurt. Her personal life is not any of my business.

Of course, it wasn't that hard to figure out. Pictures of her husband removed from her office, she no longer is wearing her wedding ring, she abruptly sold her house they bought 3 years ago, and her work schedule changed.

I actually don't talk much about my kids, either, unless someone specifically asks. That means they are taking an interest.

Now, in the past, I know I've gotten dinged about "not opening up" at work when we were doing exercises in making our workplace better. Meh. I've been at my job for 16 years now, and there's few people that I really want to/can share with.

[tskeeter]

Jan 24, 2017 20:13:29 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

So, I was thinking about that and my thought was....are there some people who you just don't discuss certain topics with because of their reactions?

And then I recalled a certain someone in my life I am avoiding a particular topic of conversation, and I realized they will eventually find out and then it will be awkward to have not been talking about it.

So. How do you maintain cordiality? Or honesty?

But also avoid reactions or conversations that are not desirable?

Sounds like my MIL.  Declares that she despises WalMart because of the impact WalMart has on Mom and Pop stores.  She ignores the fact that WalMart would be the most likely employer for her developmentally challenged son.  She also thinks that a $15 minimum wage should be federal law.  Even though such a law would likely price her son out of the labor market.  Point out something such as the fact that WalMart is the only major retailer/grocer that will build stores in inner city neighborhoods, where jobs don't exist and were there is a lack of shopping choices and she gets really upset.  Cause WalMart is evil and they certainly can't do anything positive for the communities they operate in.

[NoNamePerson]

Jan 25, 2017 10:06:22 GMT -5 giramomma said:

You find safe topics. The weather, sports, pop culture. I usually try to prepare.

I also find that if you just keep doing the asking of the questions, and the other person responds, the other person doesn't think about asking you how you feel about anything because they are too busy talking.

I find it interesting that you ask about honesty. I can have a perfectly lovely conversation about Breaking Bad, the weather, football, baseball, and some college sports, my hobbies, etc. That doesn't make me dishonest in any way.

I was raised in an environment where if you had boundaries, then you were accused of being dishonest and hiding something. To the point, where I couldn't expect privacy in the bathroom as a teen. To ask to have basic bathroom privacy would have meant that I was hiding something to my parents.

I have boundaries with how much non-sexual intimacy I have with folks. We all do. Some people are safe people for me to share with, and some aren't.

My refusing to have non-sexual intimacy with a person that isn't safe to do so isn't me being dishonest. It's me being emotionally healthy.

Had to laugh at this. One person in the family that my son married into thinks the fact that I am a Raiders fan is cause for me to burn in hell for all eternity. I mean he literally thinks that - just the mention of Raiders in his house makes him angry. They had a little girl (kinda late in life so to speak) and I so wanted to give her a Raiders onsie but I refrained.  

[raeoflyte]

Jan 25, 2017 11:00:24 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I guess in my situation - I had issues with this person's emotional reactions to my *relatively minor* accomplishments. This is in regards to progress towards my phd, which she is also working on hers.

She has used me as a pace car for her own work - having a complete meltdown if I make progress towards a milestone she has not, and then lording her accomplishments over me if she edges me out. And - I just didn't want to talk about it with her anymore. I don't need outside motivations. I try to work at least 1-2 hours a day on my dissertation, and after a while, those small bits do add up.

I had tested out giving her a small piece of positive news about my progress on step 1, but she still reacted in terms of what this means to her vs me, rather than something of mine.

So I decided that I wasn't going to share my progress anymore. She assumes I am behind her as I await committee approval on step 1, but I have actually completed my first draft of the next step while waiting to hear about the committee decisions on the last one, and my advisor will give me the first round of comments in a week or so. 

But at some point it is going to be revealed, and then I expect a completely meltdown like last time I made a milestone well before her. 

But after thinking about this due to Swasat's thread - Now - I feel like I'm hiding something, like I'm being shady or sneaky. It also means I can't share my good news/milestones with mutual friends. 

I just don't want to deal with her emotional downward spiral. We work together, and she was a mess last time I submitted something: she wouldn't do her job, worked all day on her school work at work and did the bare minimum (which of course, makes more work for the rest of us) and also stayed up until midnight-1am every night until she caught up to me, coming in to work late, cranky, and hardly even being civil to people in casual conversations.... cuz she had to rush back to her computer....

I guess it is going to happen at some point. Now - not sure if delaying it as long as possible is the right way to go.

I wouldn't say anything to her.  I'd rather deal with one huge melt down, than a dozen smaller (but still pita ones).  I don't know that I could actually do it, but I'd really try to call her out on the melt down too.  Really by the time you're getting your PhD you should be able to handle someone working at a different pace.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Now - I feel like I'm hiding something, like I'm being shady or sneaky. It also means I can't share my good news/milestones with mutual friends.

Why not?  Her snits are not your problem.   You are taking too much ownership over her reaction.    The only person you can control is you.   Don't let her rain on your parade and prevent you from sharing your happiness with others.   SHE is the one with the problem not you.

My therapist told me that guilt is an internal emotion.  People cannot "make" you feel guilty, you generate guilty feelings on your own.   Why do you feel that this person is worth creating guilty feelings for?

[debthaven]

When she finds out, and has a meltdown, she'll probably ask you why you hid the info from her. Be sure to tell her, because I knew you would react like this.

We have someone like that at work too ... most people walk on eggs with her, because it's just easier than dealing with the fallout / upset. But everything comes out eventually (ie someone gets promoted, or given additional responsibilities) so it only postpones the inevitable. My colleague gets upset every.single.time ANYBODY but her is asked to do ANYTHING. So, she gets upset a LOT.

I call her out on it every time ... I'm sure it doesn't change how she feels but at least it has changed how she acts with me, she doesn't do that with me anymore. (I don't dislike her, but she's pretty difficult to work with.)

[janee]

Just tell her when she does find out that it was too stressful to always be talking about it. That it was better for you to go at your own pace.

[moon/Laura]

I agree with NomoreDramaQ1015. I'd totally call her out on her behavior. For her to have a tantrum when you complete something first, but then gloat when *she* does is ridiculously childish. It's not a competition. Time to grow up!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Good point, Rae. I will try to go for 1 big one as opposed to many bumps along the way.

Then as debt and janee noted, will be nonchalant and/or call her out lightly, as appropriate.

I'm not all that concerned about the reaction per se, but unfortunately, we have "discretionary " job duties whereby weekly there are unassigned tasks that must be done. An email goes out and a volunteer is needed. Could be up to 10 hours a week, but usually about 5 per person.

Last time she suddenly had no time for this for about 4 weeks straight. I ended up with quite a few extra hours per week.

She is generally a very good worker, we are allowed 4 hours per week for approved studies and she has taken advantage of that a bit too much.

I think she thought I should take that on so she could catch up. No one else knew what left her with no time. I tolerated it at the time, but then I was shocked that she was really a bit gloaty when the tables turned. Suddenly, she decided mine was a rough draft while hers was a final draft all along.

These duties could be easily assigned, I have lobbied for that for years, but they still remain volnteer basis, no warning, etc.

Anyhoo, going to keep my progress under wraps and deal with it whenever I have to. Glad you all agree I am not being shady.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jan 25, 2017 14:44:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Now - I feel like I'm hiding something, like I'm being shady or sneaky. It also means I can't share my good news/milestones with mutual friends.

Why not?  Her snits are not your problem.   You are taking too much ownership over her reaction.    The only person you can control is you.   Don't let her rain on your parade and prevent you from sharing your happiness with others.   SHE is the one with the problem not you.

My therapist told me that guilt is an internal emotion.  People cannot "make" you feel guilty, you generate guilty feelings on your own.   Why do you feel that this person is worth creating guilty feelings for?

Your therapist hasn't met my mother

[flutterby]

I hate it when...you can't be honest. In my case because it will hurt someone's feelings and won't change anything.

My sisters and I go on a girls' 4-5 day weekend every year. Just us girls. We have a great time, we all get along very well, we're never doing anything we shouldn't be doing. All innocent fun.

Sister 1's husband throws a fit though. He hates her going without him, calls her constantly to check up on her, etc. Well last year was the last straw for him apparently, and he's decided he's coming with us too. Therefore, Sister 2 and I have decided we just won't do our weekend. There is no way he's coming with us and ruining our vacations, which he would. He's a jerk in the best of times, and add alcohol, which he does (A LOT!!) and he's unbearable. Sister 1 knows this, but makes excuses.

So Sister 2 and I keep putting off discussing vacation plans with Sister 1. We are actually going on our girls' weekend without her and not telling her. I feel like we're totally being shady because we are. But telling her the truth will hurt her feelings. She won't leave him, she won't stand up to him, and to be fair, she kind of encourages him so it's not all his fault.

We need to tell Sister 1 to stand up to her husband or we won't do our vacation together anymore, but we're putting it off because it will be so awkward and hurtful.

So yeah...we're cowards and taking the easy way out. It'll come back to bite us in the ass, because eventually she'll find out, and we'll have to have the awful conversation then. 

[snapdragon]

Jan 25, 2017 20:42:34 GMT -5 flutterby said:

I hate it when...you can't be honest. In my case because it will hurt someone's feelings and won't change anything.

My sisters and I go on a girls' 4-5 day weekend every year. Just us girls. We have a great time, we all get along very well, we're never doing anything we shouldn't be doing. All innocent fun.

Sister 1's husband throws a fit though. He hates her going without him, calls her constantly to check up on her, etc. Well last year was the last straw for him apparently, and he's decided he's coming with us too. Therefore, Sister 2 and I have decided we just won't do our weekend. There is no way he's coming with us and ruining our vacations, which he would. He's a jerk in the best of times, and add alcohol, which he does (A LOT!!) and he's unbearable. Sister 1 knows this, but makes excuses.

So Sister 2 and I keep putting off discussing vacation plans with Sister 1. We are actually going on our girls' weekend without her and not telling her. I feel like we're totally being shady because we are. But telling her the truth will hurt her feelings. She won't leave him, she won't stand up to him, and to be fair, she kind of encourages him so it's not all his fault.

We need to tell Sister 1 to stand up to her husband or we won't do our vacation together anymore, but we're putting it off because it will be so awkward and hurtful.

So yeah...we're cowards and taking the easy way out. It'll come back to bite us in the ass, because eventually she'll find out, and we'll have to have the awful conversation then. 

I understand completely. My 2 BFF's and I attempt to do a weekend or 2 per year. Just to get away from the kids and have adult conversations etc. One's huspand would put such pressure on her because he had to watch the kids. There was constant phone calls, belittling and attempting to guilt her. It would seriously tick us off. Though we never really said anything to her about his behavior and her accepting it.
This year has changed. My friend had a revelation during our weekend in September. She started to talk with a therapist and has really been placing her needs to the fore. It's wonderful to see actually. She seems much happier and more self possessed and just in a better place.

Could you possibly bring up the idea of your sister going to someone to talk about "issues" and working on her that way. Maybe in regards to her work/life balance or something?