ACLU goes after Obama on FISA

[ed1066]

Wow, the left is absolutely [glow=red,2,300]IMPLODING[/glow]

www.salon.com/news/fisa/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/03/21/aclu

In October, 2007, candidate Barack Obama -- in response to the Bush administration's demand for a new FISA law -- emphatically vowed that he would filibuster any such bill that contained retroactive amnesty for telecoms which participated in Bush's illegal spying program. At the time, that vow was politically beneficial to Obama because he was seeking the Democratic nomination and wanted to show how resolute he was about standing up against Bush's expansions of surveillance powers and in defense of the rule of law. But in a move that shocked many people at the time -- though which turned out to be completely consistent with his character -- Obama, once he had the nomination secured in July, 2008, turned around and did exactly that which he swore he would not do: he not only voted against the filibuster of the bill containing telecom amnesty, but also voted in favor of enactment of the underlying bill. That bill, known as the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, was then signed into law by George W. Bush at a giddy bipartisan signing ceremony in the Rose Garden, which -- by immunizing telecoms and legalizing most of the Bush program -- put a harmless, harmonious end to what had been the NSA scandal.

[hello fromWarsaw]

You wish, dittohead spammer ;D

[ed1066]

You got NOTHING dupe...

[hello fromWarsaw]

Neither do you, and it's your thread! ;D

[straydog]

Back in the old days, the two most important reasons (for me anyway), that Democrats gave you for voting for them was support for labor in the private sector and support for civil liberties.

Bill Clinton changed that with both NAFTA and when he first introduced his health care plan and started waving that blue national ID card around. And as far as Obama and civil liberties go, he is starting to make Richard Nixon look like an ACLU lawyer.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Well, I hate to say it- but I'm with the ACLU on this one. I should be able to do business with a private company in complete privacy with the knowledge that it will not comply with illegal, warrantless requests by government to violate my Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. Telecoms that complied with such requests violated the law, and should be wide open for lawsuits on the grounds that they violated the civil rights of their customers.

[handyman2]

Well where do we go from here? The Republicans have shot themselves in the foot more times than I can count and now the Democrats are blasting away at both feet.
As an independent I am beginning to think it is time for a third party stocked with some respect for the Constitution, America first and some common sense.

[ed1066]

Mar 22, 2011 10:28:28 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Well where do we go from here? The Republicans have shot themselves in the foot more times than I can count and now the Democrats are blasting away at both feet.
As an independent I am beginning to think it is time for a third party stocked with some respect for the Constitution, America first and some common sense.

That's long overdue indeed, and I think many are finally waking up to that fact. Our interests are not being served by the current two party system...

[workpublic]

As an independent I am beginning to think it is time for a third party stocked with some respect for the Constitution, America first and some common sense.

[EVT1]

Mar 22, 2011 9:50:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Well, I hate to say it- but I'm with the ACLU on this one.

Why is that? Don't tell me- you think the ACLU is a left wing organization. It probably wouldn't seem that way if the folks on the right weren't so quick to impose their views on other people.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 22, 2011 11:12:25 GMT -5 workpublic said:

As an independent I am beginning to think it is time for a third party stocked with some respect for the Constitution, America first and some common sense.

Ditto

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 22, 2011 15:16:45 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 22, 2011 9:50:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Well, I hate to say it- but I'm with the ACLU on this one.

Why is that? Don't tell me- you think the ACLU is a left wing organization. It probably wouldn't seem that way if the folks on the right weren't so quick to impose their views on other people.

I don't think the ACLU is a left wing organization, they ARE a left wing organization. They don't even dispute it.

Roger Baldwin is the founder of the ACLU (est 1920) and he stated that “Communism [was] the goal” toward which his efforts were directed.

[EVT1]

Only if you consider standing up for individual rights and freedom 'left wing'. The ACLU is non partisan- but I'll concede the point that people likely to be a part of them tend to be on the left versus the pack of bullies on the right that expects the world to bow to their beliefs. The only problem I have with them is their stance on the 2nd amendment.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 22, 2011 21:47:07 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Only if you consider standing up for individual rights and freedom 'left wing'. The ACLU is non partisan- but I'll concede the point that people likely to be a part of them tend to be on the left versus the pack of bullies on the right that expects the world to bow to their beliefs. The only problem I have with them is their stance on the 2nd amendment.

Concede, don't concede the point. I don't care. This is what I meant on the other thread when I said I participate on a closed forum at rightwingwealth.com because I don't like starting every conversation establishing, re-establishing, or arguing over basic facts.

The ACLU is on the left.

It's just a fact, and not one frankly that even the folks at the ACLU would debate. So, why do I so frequently come here and have to debate simple, well-known, every day, boring facts? Grass is green, the sky is blue, the ACLU is left of center.

[magichat]

Is that why they sided with Rush and an very long list of Churches?

There stance on the 2nd amendment is decidedly wrong and on the left. Their stance on the 1st Amendment is very much along Constitutional lines. Since you claim that liberals hate free speech wouldn't that make the ACLU even on the score card?

[Tennesseer]

(palmbeachpaul): rightwingwealth.com

All of 13 members. 87 posts with 51 by 'Tim'. No wonder you don't have to argue over basic facts.

[magichat]

I think I might be one of those members, had to go through one heck of a process to find out the yearly fee.

My favorite moment was answering the question,"who was the greatest President of the 20th century?"

With the only apparent acceptable answer being Reagan. ;D

[privateinvestor]

@ 50 Dems in congress also go after Obama on Libya

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 23, 2011 9:58:05 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

(palmbeachpaul): rightwingwealth.com

All of 13 members. 87 posts with 51 by 'Tim'. No wonder you don't have to argue over basic facts.

Tim goes for the quality, not the quantity.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 23, 2011 10:04:08 GMT -5 @magichat said:

I think I might be one of those members, had to go through one heck of a process to find out the yearly fee.

My favorite moment was answering the question,"who was the greatest President of the 20th century?"

With the only apparent acceptable answer being Reagan. ;D

Magichat-I think you would remember if you were a member-it is a pay to use site.

[magichat]

Mar 23, 2011 10:30:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 23, 2011 10:04:08 GMT -5 @magichat said:

I think I might be one of those members, had to go through one heck of a process to find out the yearly fee.

My favorite moment was answering the question,"who was the greatest President of the 20th century?"

With the only apparent acceptable answer being Reagan. ;D

Magichat-I think you would remember if you were a member-it is a pay to use site.

Not completely, you can register and do a few other things without paying. I went through all of it to find out what the fee was. IIRC, it was $91/yr.

Still waiting for a rebuttal from Paul regarding ACLU, doubt I will get it.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Yeah- free is for freeloaders. You see what you get with that . But seriously- back to the OP here- we are all basically in agreement, are we not? Just because the ACLU was founded by a communist doesn't mean I think everything they do is wrong. We agree on this issue, right? Go get a warrant, or leave me alone, and leave the companies I do business with alone, and if said companies violate my rights- I can and should have a civil rights complaint against them?

[magichat]

Mar 23, 2011 10:33:46 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Yeah- free is for freeloaders. You see what you get with that . But seriously- back to the OP here- we are all basically in agreement, are we not? Just because the ACLU was founded by a communist doesn't mean I think everything they do is wrong. We agree on this issue, right? Go get a warrant, or leave me alone, and leave the companies I do business with alone, and if said companies violate my rights- I can and should have a civil rights complaint against them?

I dont' see anybody in agreement. What I see is your claim that the ACLU operates as a left wing organization, which I rebutted in an earlier message and you have ignored.

[EVT1]

www.theonion.com/articles/aclu-defends-nazis-right-to-burn-down-aclu-headqua,1648/
;D

[floridayankee]

Mar 23, 2011 12:34:33 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

www.theonion.com/articles/aclu-defends-nazis-right-to-burn-down-aclu-headqua,1648/
;D

"I am reminded of the words of Voltaire: 'I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,'" Strossen said. "While the ACLU vehemently disagrees with the idea of Nazis torching this building, the principle of freedom of expression must be supported in all cases. If we take away these Nazis' right to burn down our headquarters, we take away everyone's right to burn down our headquarters."

Arson is a right now?

[billisonboard]

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