Saving for retirement on minimum wage

[cronewitch]

I always wanted to invest since I was a child. Back then banks paid 4% on savings and I knew a million dollars would get you 40K a year but that was all I knew about investing. My parents didn't invest or save when we were kids then started some rental real estate but mom refused to allow dad to gamble on stocks.
My first job after high school paid 1.25 an hour and I needed everything since I only took one suit case leaving home. So after buying everything I needed like dishes and bedding I only saved $10 in 6 months before I met my ex.
He was my stumbling block most of the next 17 years, he didn't want me to save, he said I was too young. He did get 18.75 taken out of his check for a weekly savings bond but cashed them all in to pay a down payment on a first new car. I remember when IRAs were invented and I wanted one they said $2K a year and you can have a million dollars. He said I was too young to save for retirement. So between 1966 and 1983 I had only a tiny bit of money like 2K total. Then he was drinking and not working and I divorced him . April 1984 three days before my divorce was final I got my first IRA, it was a bank CD. I knew nothing about investing, I wanted to know so listened to talk radio. They were saying Genny Mays were good so April 1985 I talked to a broker and told him I wanted a Genny May mutual fund, no load because I thought interest rates were going up. He sold me 4K of them but didn't tell me there was an inverse relationship with interest rates. I was so mad when I found out I was right about interest rates and lost money. April 1986 I took my losses and added 2K more and bought 200 shares of stock. High commissions so you had to buy in even hundreds. I loved it they went up in 1/8th points so every time they went up I got $25 gain and about 10% dividends. I had an electric utility so good dividends. My great aunt had telephone company stock, she told me she used her dividends to pay her phone bill. I figured I could buy electric, phone and other stocks to pay my bills too.
It was the 90s when I started investing more than 2K a year. I opened a Janus fund for $75 a month. I lost money but still had more than if I didn't invest.

Starting investing was slow and hard because IRA was only 2K a year and I didn't have access to 401K until the 1990s and that was only 15% with no match. It took me about 10 years to save 10K and about 15 years to get to 67K after I got 401K and rolled it over. Then things took off. They raised the limits to 5K on IRA and got ROTH so I converted 67K to ROTH. I tried all the tech stocks late 90s so crashed bad. I didn't hit 100K until about 2003. I got a new job in 2002 so got a 401K in 2003 then they raised the limit to 13K a year then 14K the next year so with my ROTH and 401K I could save almost 20K a year. I refinanced my house and invested 114K in taxable accounts so things were rolling. Then in 2008 I had about 400K total then lost a bunch.

I couldn't have done it if married or making minimum wage that first 10K was so hard. Many people can't seem to even keep 1K long term. Remember we also need to buy things like houses and cars and boats along the way not save everything for the future. This is why I want to help the younger generation to get past that first 10K sooner than 10 years if they will do it. My niece and nephew are hopeless, she had a 100% match and didn't save a cent. He cashed out his wife's when she became disabled and now his to get a new house. I am helping the great nephew with college so he can save when paying less in student loans. I don't know if he is hopeless yet, first thing after graduation he wants to go to Switzerland to see his aunt and uncle then travel around Europe a while. He doesn't seem to think about his student loans or landing a first job much at all. He talked about buying stock but don't think he did yet.

[beergut]

Jan 6, 2017 1:24:27 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I always wanted to invest since I was a child. Back then banks paid 4% on savings and I knew a million dollars would get you 40K a year but that was all I knew about investing. My parents didn't invest or save when we were kids then started some rental real estate but mom refused to allow dad to gamble on stocks.
My first job after high school paid 1.25 an hour and I needed everything since I only took one suit case leaving home. So after buying everything I needed like dishes and bedding I only saved $10 in 6 months before I met my ex.
He was my stumbling block most of the next 17 years, he didn't want me to save, he said I was too young. He did get 18.75 taken out of his check for a weekly savings bond but cashed them all in to pay a down payment on a first new car. I remember when IRAs were invented and I wanted one they said $2K a year and you can have a million dollars. He said I was too young to save for retirement. So between 1966 and 1983 I had only a tiny bit of money like 2K total. Then he was drinking and not working and I divorced him . April 1984 three days before my divorce was final I got my first IRA, it was a bank CD. I knew nothing about investing, I wanted to know so listened to talk radio. They were saying Genny Mays were good so April 1985 I talked to a broker and told him I wanted a Genny May mutual fund, no load because I thought interest rates were going up. He sold me 4K of them but didn't tell me there was an inverse relationship with interest rates. I was so mad when I found out I was right about interest rates and lost money. April 1986 I took my losses and added 2K more and bought 200 shares of stock. High commissions so you had to buy in even hundreds. I loved it they went up in 1/8th points so every time they went up I got $25 gain and about 10% dividends. I had an electric utility so good dividends. My great aunt had telephone company stock, she told me she used her dividends to pay her phone bill. I figured I could buy electric, phone and other stocks to pay my bills too.
It was the 90s when I started investing more than 2K a year. I opened a Janus fund for $75 a month. I lost money but still had more than if I didn't invest.

Starting investing was slow and hard because IRA was only 2K a year and I didn't have access to 401K until the 1990s and that was only 15% with no match. It took me about 10 years to save 10K and about 15 years to get to 67K after I got 401K and rolled it over. Then things took off. They raised the limits to 5K on IRA and got ROTH so I converted 67K to ROTH. I tried all the tech stocks late 90s so crashed bad. I didn't hit 100K until about 2003. I got a new job in 2002 so got a 401K in 2003 then they raised the limit to 13K a year then 14K the next year so with my ROTH and 401K I could save almost 20K a year. I refinanced my house and invested 114K in taxable accounts so things were rolling. Then in 2008 I had about 400K total then lost a bunch.

I couldn't have done it if married or making minimum wage that first 10K was so hard. Many people can't seem to even keep 1K long term. Remember we also need to buy things like houses and cars and boats along the way not save everything for the future. This is why I want to help the younger generation to get past that first 10K sooner than 10 years if they will do it. My niece and nephew are hopeless, she had a 100% match and didn't save a cent. He cashed out his wife's when she became disabled and now his to get a new house. I am helping the great nephew with college so he can save when paying less in student loans. I don't know if he is hopeless yet, first thing after graduation he wants to go to Switzerland to see his aunt and uncle then travel around Europe a while. He doesn't seem to think about his student loans or landing a first job much at all. He talked about buying stock but don't think he did yet.

I always enjoy reading your perspective, cw. 

Has great-nephew graduated yet?

[cronewitch]

Has great-nephew graduated yet?

No, he will in May or June he isn't sure what date. He will be 21 in March so not really behind.

[teen persuasion]

I think there's a difference between "low income" and "poor".  To me, low income is self explanatory, but says nothing about what they do with that income.  While I see poor as someone who spends everything they earn/have, and possibly even more (debt).

Yes, having a low income makes it difficult to find any extra to save,  but some clearly make a budget to make sure their small income covers all the necessities, and find a way to save something.  On the other hand, even some that make decent incomes can spend themselves into the poor category.  Those people will never have extra to save.

Then there's the question of whether saving and investing was too difficult to do in the past.  Clearly it is easier now, more people have access, but there is a lack of knowledge yet.  Just yesterday my boss mentioned she's finally ready to open an IRA (just paid off her student loans), but she had no idea how, where, costs, what to invest in.  Mid thirties, graduate degree, intelligent, but financially clueless up to this point.

Some of us are just wired to organize our finances and save, others are NOT.  Some people are prompted by circumstances to be intentional with budgeting, or learn to be sloppy.

[movingforward]

Jan 5, 2017 22:01:13 GMT -5 dannylion said:

And yet there are people with limited incomes who do manage to save money, move away from places with no opportunities to places with better prospects (even leaving family and friends behind), pursue better jobs, or figure out how to overcome whatever difficulty others see as an impossible obstacle.  There are people with limited skills who do decide that the temporary hardship of moving somewhere else or the stress of getting an education or training while holding down a job (or jobs) will not be the end of the world, so they suck it up and do it.  There are people who figure out how to increase their income by mowing lawns or walking dogs or doing alterations (sorry for the sewing reference--please don't hate me) or cleaning houses or any number of other ways even if they don't have a lawnmower or a leash or a sewing machine or a broom or whatever.  Maybe they're just lucky.  Or something. 

Many times people don't really even need to travel far away for new opportunities.  I have extended family that lives in a very rural part of eastern NC.  Essentially, you either barn tobacco or work at the hog factory.  The tobacco fields are worked some by locals (generally teens/young adults), but mainly by migrant workers.  The hog factory rarely has job openings.  They pay decent money for the area so if a person gets one of those jobs they tend not to leave, plus everyone is not too keen on that type of work.  My uncle worked for years removing the eyeballs from pigs .  At any rate, I have cousins there that complain about the job opportunities but refuse to move.  There are good opportunities only 1.5 - 2 hrs away but they refuse to move.  It's not like they would be moving across the country.  Their parents are still relatively young (early - mid 60's) so there is no real need for my cousins to live across the street like they do.  They just want to and my aunt/uncle want them to...so they would rather sit around and complain about the small opportunities available rather than move a mere 1.5 hrs away.  It is utterly ridiculous but I have seen this attitude many times from those in rural areas.  They are not encouraged to "venture out" or even be successful. 

I actually feel really lucky that my parents left that area years before I was born.  They wanted an education and opportunity.  They weren't going to get it there.  They moved about 3 hours away.  My dad attended community college while cooking at a small local diner.  My mother attended cosmetology school while working as a waitress at that same restaurant.  They rented a studio apartment and lived on next to nothing.  My dad was able to borrow the money to attend community college from my great uncle (wasn't much back then).  Apparently, my grandparents were royally pissed that my father moved away. 

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2017 9:25:54 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Many times people don't really even need to travel far away for new opportunities. 

There are lots of area in MN that have depressed economies and few jobs, but many aren't far from a place that is doing great.  My ex has family members living in a town of maybe 500 people in southern MN near the Iowa border.  His sister is scraping along with 2 or 3 jobs that give her maybe 10 hours a week each (a gas station, waitressing and cleaning).  They're on food stamps and housing assistance and barely scraping by, yet, she's maybe 45 minutes from our city which has plenty of full time with benefits opportunities and 1 hour from Rochester which is booming, but she doesn't want to uproot her kids and move away from her mother.    (BTW, her Mother hasn't worked for 30 years and lives in an apartment pretty sure she can move to wherever she wants and follow).

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2017 9:55:43 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Hell... 45 min-1 hr is commuting distance.    

I know, right?  Although, it would be a really bad commute in the winter, especially with her POS old car.

[movingforward]

Jan 6, 2017 9:55:43 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jan 6, 2017 9:47:22 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

There are lots of area in MN that have depressed economies and few jobs, but many aren't far from a place that is doing great.  My ex has family members living in a town of maybe 500 people in southern MN near the Iowa border.  His sister is scraping along with 2 or 3 jobs that give her maybe 10 hours a week each (a gas station, waitressing and cleaning).  They're on food stamps and housing assistance and barely scraping by, yet, she's maybe 45 minutes from our city which has plenty of full time with benefits opportunities and 1 hour from Rochester which is booming, but she doesn't want to uproot her kids and move away from her mother.    (BTW, her Mother hasn't worked for 30 years and lives in an apartment pretty sure she can move to wherever she wants and follow).

Hell... 45 min-1 hr is commuting distance.    

It is in my city and I only live 13 miles from work.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Jan 6, 2017 9:55:43 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Hell... 45 min-1 hr is commuting distance.    

It is in my city and I only live 13 miles from work.

When I say about an hour away, I mean about 60 miles.  50 if it's a route with a few stop lights. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jan 6, 2017 10:25:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -5 movingforward said:

It is in my city and I only live 13 miles from work.

When I say about an hour away, I mean about 60 miles.  50 if it's a route with a few stop lights. 

I thinking winter driving in MN can be rough at times? Especially from town-to-town. Who maintains the roads in between?

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:25:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

When I say about an hour away, I mean about 60 miles.  50 if it's a route with a few stop lights. 

I thinking winter driving in MN can be rough at times? Especially from town-to-town. Who maintains the roads in between?

The counties plow the roads.  

[movingforward]

Jan 6, 2017 10:25:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -5 movingforward said:

It is in my city and I only live 13 miles from work.

When I say about an hour away, I mean about 60 miles.  50 if it's a route with a few stop lights. 

Yes, that's what I figured.  Around here it takes an hour just to get across town during rush hour.  This morning I left my house at 6:05AM though and I was at work by 6:30AM . Had I left at 7AM it would have taken me an hour. 

[movingforward]

Jan 6, 2017 14:31:00 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I thinking winter driving in MN can be rough at times? Especially from town-to-town. Who maintains the roads in between?

abominable snowmen? at least that's what i picture

Every time someone in the northern midwest post about getting their kid ready for school in the winter this all I can picture

[Lizard Queen]

Upper Midwest here.  Try a short sleeve t-shirt.  I swear, 2 days ago, temp is in the teens, one of the kids walks out to the parking in jeans and a short-sleeve t-shirt.  The older the kids are, the worse it seems get.  It wasn't quite this cold a few days ago, probably somewhere in the 30's, maybe 40 with blowing wind.  10-15 month old baby with no hat at all.  I was freezing with my hood on.  Then they wonder why their kid gets sick all the time.

[beergut]

Jan 6, 2017 14:31:00 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I thinking winter driving in MN can be rough at times? Especially from town-to-town. Who maintains the roads in between?

abominable snowmen? at least that's what i picture

No, it's the eskimo who live in igloos beside the road. 

[Deleted]

My oldest used to wear shorts year round.  This year he's at a school that doesn't allow them.  He was dying until about November.  He's like his uncle (my brother) Alaskan temps are more their liking.  If I turn the furnace up to 65 DS acts like I'm killing him. 

[beergut]

Jan 6, 2017 9:25:54 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Jan 5, 2017 22:01:13 GMT -5 dannylion said:

And yet there are people with limited incomes who do manage to save money, move away from places with no opportunities to places with better prospects (even leaving family and friends behind), pursue better jobs, or figure out how to overcome whatever difficulty others see as an impossible obstacle.  There are people with limited skills who do decide that the temporary hardship of moving somewhere else or the stress of getting an education or training while holding down a job (or jobs) will not be the end of the world, so they suck it up and do it.  There are people who figure out how to increase their income by mowing lawns or walking dogs or doing alterations (sorry for the sewing reference--please don't hate me) or cleaning houses or any number of other ways even if they don't have a lawnmower or a leash or a sewing machine or a broom or whatever.  Maybe they're just lucky.  Or something. 

Many times people don't really even need to travel far away for new opportunities.  I have extended family that lives in a very rural part of eastern NC.  Essentially, you either barn tobacco or work at the hog factory.  The tobacco fields are worked some by locals (generally teens/young adults), but mainly by migrant workers.  The hog factory rarely has job openings.  They pay decent money for the area so if a person gets one of those jobs they tend not to leave, plus everyone is not too keen on that type of work.  My uncle worked for years removing the eyeballs from pigs .  At any rate, I have cousins there that complain about the job opportunities but refuse to move.  There are good opportunities only 1.5 - 2 hrs away but they refuse to move.  It's not like they would be moving across the country.  Their parents are still relatively young (early - mid 60's) so there is no real need for my cousins to live across the street like they do.  They just want to and my aunt/uncle want them to...so they would rather sit around and complain about the small opportunities available rather than move a mere 1.5 hrs away.  It is utterly ridiculous but I have seen this attitude many times from those in rural areas.  They are not encouraged to "venture out" or even be successful. 

I actually feel really lucky that my parents left that area years before I was born.  They wanted an education and opportunity.  They weren't going to get it there.  They moved about 3 hours away.  My dad attended community college while cooking at a small local diner.  My mother attended cosmetology school while working as a waitress at that same restaurant.  They rented a studio apartment and lived on next to nothing.  My dad was able to borrow the money to attend community college from my great uncle (wasn't much back then).  Apparently, my grandparents were royally pissed that my father moved away. 

Just wanted to say that I admire the hell out of your parents. They sound pretty awesome.

[Deleted]

Actually, highway and county roads between cities are usually cleared better than in town.  Town gets all snow packed and icy from all the traffic.  The bad part about going stretches between is if the weather is bad at the time.  Typically things are cleared off pretty quickly.  We send nearly 100 people a day to our other facility an hour away after they get here and it's really no big deal 90% of the time. 

[Chocolate Lover]

Jan 6, 2017 14:58:56 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jan 6, 2017 14:56:41 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

My oldest used to wear shorts year round.  This year he's at a school that doesn't allow them.  He was dying until about November.  He's like his uncle (my brother) Alaskan temps are more their liking.  If I turn the furnace up to 65 DS acts like I'm killing him. 

We keep our thermostat set to 60.  Anytime we invite our neighbors over we turn up the heat so we don't freeze them out.  By the time they leave MrSroo and I are sweating.  We usually end up opening the windows to cool the house down. 

You people are just weird. 

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 6, 2017 15:09:49 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Jan 6, 2017 14:58:56 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

We keep our thermostat set to 60.  Anytime we invite our neighbors over we turn up the heat so we don't freeze them out.  By the time they leave MrSroo and I are sweating.  We usually end up opening the windows to cool the house down. 

You people are just weird. 

  At 60, my nose, fingers and feet would be like ice cubes.  We keep ours on 70.  My mom's is on 74, which I call tropical.

[movingforward]

Jan 6, 2017 14:57:46 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jan 6, 2017 9:25:54 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Many times people don't really even need to travel far away for new opportunities.  I have extended family that lives in a very rural part of eastern NC.  Essentially, you either barn tobacco or work at the hog factory.  The tobacco fields are worked some by locals (generally teens/young adults), but mainly by migrant workers.  The hog factory rarely has job openings.  They pay decent money for the area so if a person gets one of those jobs they tend not to leave, plus everyone is not too keen on that type of work.  My uncle worked for years removing the eyeballs from pigs .  At any rate, I have cousins there that complain about the job opportunities but refuse to move.  There are good opportunities only 1.5 - 2 hrs away but they refuse to move.  It's not like they would be moving across the country.  Their parents are still relatively young (early - mid 60's) so there is no real need for my cousins to live across the street like they do.  They just want to and my aunt/uncle want them to...so they would rather sit around and complain about the small opportunities available rather than move a mere 1.5 hrs away.  It is utterly ridiculous but I have seen this attitude many times from those in rural areas.  They are not encouraged to "venture out" or even be successful. 

I actually feel really lucky that my parents left that area years before I was born.  They wanted an education and opportunity.  They weren't going to get it there.  They moved about 3 hours away.  My dad attended community college while cooking at a small local diner.  My mother attended cosmetology school while working as a waitress at that same restaurant.  They rented a studio apartment and lived on next to nothing.  My dad was able to borrow the money to attend community college from my great uncle (wasn't much back then).  Apparently, my grandparents were royally pissed that my father moved away. 

Just wanted to say that I admire the hell out of your parents. They sound pretty awesome.

Thank you!  There are pretty awesome (well, mom passed away almost 7 years ago). They also moved halfway across the country in their early 50's. I believe I have posted this story before, but the company my dad worked at for close to 30 years closed their doors back in 1998.  At the age of 52 my dad was having a hard time finding a job.  Luckily, he had about 6 months notice of the closing. A sister company 1300 miles away had a position available and were interested in my dad. He and mom didn't really want to move.  At the time my brother lived an hour away and had a 3 year old daughter. I was in graduate school and only 2 hours away. They realized moving was the best option though. My dad's opportunities were limited. Companies were hiring people half his age and paying them way less. When he told my mom her words were "well, we have to do what we have to do."  As it turned out, they actually ended up really liking the new city.

After 2 - 3 years of moving to a new city the sister company ended up closing.  This was not a complete shock since the company had obviously been going downhill for a while, but now this was happening again with my dad now in his mid 50's.  My mom had a pretty good job where they were so my father decided to sell RV's. Sales was the only thing he could do where he could make the same thing he had been making. He did that for 7 years and then retired at the age of 62.

Sometimes people have to not only move but reinvent themselves. It isn't easy and I think the older you get the harder it becomes.  My parents really taught me about flexibility though. Sometimes you have to bend and reshape yourself so you don't break. 

[movingforward]

Jan 6, 2017 15:15:25 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 6, 2017 15:09:49 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

You people are just weird. 

  At 60, my nose, fingers and feet would be like ice cubes.  We keep ours on 70.  My mom's is on 74, which I call tropical.

I would be dying at 74.  Just out of pure curiosity what are your electric or gas bills like in the winter? Of course, our big bills where I live are July and August (it is ridiculously hot).

[Chocolate Lover]

Jan 6, 2017 15:15:25 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 6, 2017 15:09:49 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

You people are just weird. 

  At 60, my nose, fingers and feet would be like ice cubes.  We keep ours on 70.  My mom's is on 74, which I call tropical.

If someone in my house put the thermostat on 60, they'd be getting kicked out. My nose freezes at about 70. 72 is good, a little lower at night (71, 70) but that's it! My office is currently at 74 because it won't stay warm at a lower temp. 

[Cookies Galore]

Jan 6, 2017 15:24:01 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Jan 6, 2017 15:15:25 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

  At 60, my nose, fingers and feet would be like ice cubes.  We keep ours on 70.  My mom's is on 74, which I call tropical.

If someone in my house put the thermostat on 60, they'd be getting kicked out. My nose freezes at about 70. 72 is good, a little lower at night (71, 70) but that's it! My office is currently at 74 because it won't stay warm at a lower temp. 

You won't want to visit me in the winter! We keep the heat at 60 at night and when we're gone. It's set to 66/67 when we're home.

[cronewitch]

I am cold, shivering turned heat up to 76 a few minutes ago, it was 67 while sleeping. I am so cold blooded now I bundle up indoors at 70. I can afford high heat bills so I will turn it up. Drinking coffee waiting to get warm. Electric blanket at night with 8 layers of blanket over my feet. I fold the heavy minky blanket 6 layers then another two layers plus the electric still takes me a half hour to warm enough to sleep. I may not install the window air conditioners this summer since I only used them a couple times last year.

[Deleted]

The only time I'm ever freezing is at work sitting at my computer.  At home 67 is the highest I ever put the thermostat, at night 58-60.  I think it varies by house though.  I go to my aunt's next door and she SWEARS it's set to 69 and everyone is cold.  The thermostat says 69, the thermometer in her kitchen also says it's 69, but 69 in my house feels a hell of a lot warmer for some reason!

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 6, 2017 15:20:26 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Jan 6, 2017 15:15:25 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

  At 60, my nose, fingers and feet would be like ice cubes.  We keep ours on 70.  My mom's is on 74, which I call tropical.

I would be dying at 74.  Just out of pure curiosity what are your electric or gas bills like in the winter? Of course, our big bills where I live are July and August (it is ridiculously hot).

We have natural gas heat.  They probably run about $150 for a normal winter, topping out a little over $200 for the worst months.  My mom's are actually a little lower, as she has a smaller house, and probably insulation in the walls of her house.  Most recent bill for us was $99, for my mom, $93.  It's been a really mild winter until this week.

[movingforward]

I keep my heat at 68 in the winter.  Of course, where I live the heat is only on about 2-3 months out of the year.  I just throw a blanket on when I am sitting around watching television. The cat acts like he is freezing to death sometimes though  

[Chocolate Lover]

Jan 6, 2017 15:29:43 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Jan 6, 2017 15:24:01 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

If someone in my house put the thermostat on 60, they'd be getting kicked out. My nose freezes at about 70. 72 is good, a little lower at night (71, 70) but that's it! My office is currently at 74 because it won't stay warm at a lower temp. 

You won't want to visit me in the winter! We keep the heat at 60 at night and when we're gone. It's set to 66/67 when we're home.

I wasn't coming in the winter anyway!

[TheHaitian]

70 at home and if my wife had her way it would be 72.

So when I am home I am in boxers only because damn it is hot. But not worth fighting over.... just leave it at 70.

When she increases it to 71-72 I reduce it back down to 70. I guess 70 is my line in the sand