Condemned House and Sale

[trippypea]

To preface, I have not seen my MIL for many years (extremely toxic person), though DH has been speaking with her on the phone in the last year.

MIL's health has gotten bad in recent years. Apparently she had been falling a lot in her home, and not able to get up. The last time, an ambulance was called and she was taken to the hospital. Later, we found out that her house had been condemned (assume the paramedics reported it) for cleanliness. We suspect that she knew the condemnation was going to happen because she had tried to get DH and his sibling to let her sign the house over to them earlier in the year, and they both said no (we didn't want to marry her finances to ours).

The house is not in good shape. We believe the house has a mortgage on it (we remember her refinancing), but don't know how much. No income other than SS and never had more than two nickels at a time. It has been determined that her health is such that she can no longer live alone and she has moved to a nursing home. She realizes that she will not be able to go back to the house even if it wasn't condemned since she can't get around. DH's sibling has looked into the process of cleaning out her house. No one has been inside her house in over 10 years, so I can just imagine what it looks like.

So the question is, what do they do about the house? Should they clean it out and then try to sell it, hoping to make enough to cover the mortgage? I don't know if there would be anything left for her (which I imagine would go straight to the nursing home to pay her room and board). What happens if it doesn't cover the mortgage? Is that what a short sale is?

Since she has no money, we are probably going to end up paying for the clean up (and most everything is going to be donated or junked).

Any thoughts on options?

[sesfw]

I don't have any answers about the finances but if you, DH and siblings start going through the house you might find some of your answers in papers scattered around.

I've had to help clean  out about 6 homes and the first things we start with are newspapers and magazines.  Thumb through them and get them into recycling ....... it will be a huge step forward.

Then attack one room at a time and go through EVERYTHING with a fine-tooth comb.  All legalize type papers put in a separate box to be gone through later.  'Stuff' dispose of as you wish and thoroughly clean as you go.  Then you will have one clean room you can go to when things get overwhelming.

Good luck ...... I'm sorry you are having to deal with this ............. I promise it will get done.

[haapai]

The best course of action is probably to let your husband and in-laws handle this, possibly to the extent of letting them figure out the best course of action for themselves.

Your post is unclear as to why the house has been declared unfit for habitation and it may not matter whether the conditions are fixable.  If the house is in her name and is mortgaged, it is quite unlikely that any of her kids will be able to get anything out of the sale of the property.  Medicaid rules regarding transfers probably prohibit such an action. 

I'd suggest that the kids get the keys, grab the stuff that is of sentimental value and all of the paperwork and then mail the keys (this is a metaphor) to the mortgage holder. 

The speed with which a mortgage holder can foreclose on the property is a matter of state law and whether the house is occupied often affects the speed with which it can proceed.  It would be helpful to bone up on this matter. 

[alabamagal]

I'm guessing it was condemned for lack of cleanliness .

Given the situation described, I wouldn't even go so far as to clean it out.  Based on MIL's permanent nursing home situation, lack of value in the house, likely terrible condition it seems like a worthless task to clean it out.

Is there anything in the house of sentimental value?  If so I would get that out of the house

Did anyone co-sign on the mortgage?  If so that will change the situation as they could be responsible for maintaining the house.

If the situation is how you described, if you go in and have the house cleaned up it will cost you time and money.  Then there are repairs that will be needed if you want to sell it.  Then costs to maintain and sell the house.  If there is enough left over after mortgage is paid, it will go to your mom and will be used to pay her medical bills.  So all your time and effort to deal with the house has just been wasted.

I know this means you are essentially putting your mom on Medicaid and letting the state pay for it, but in this situation, that seems like what needs to be done.  If you stop paying the mortgage, it will be foreclosed and then it becomes the lenders problems.

[mollyanna58]

We had a similar situation: my parents both went into the hospital two weeks apart about 1.5 years ago, then to rehab center, and at that point, my father needed full-time care. We wound up buying them a ranch house with room for a live-in aide. Their house was full of stuff. My mom bought too much of everything and held on to it; my dad hoarded paper. We have been slowly excavating ever since.

A lot of it has gone straight into the trash, although we tell mom we have donated it. We have found some good stuff. Mom used to collect dolls. There was a complete set of Star Trek action figures from 1974 and a couple of aliens from 1975. They sold on Ebay for over $500.00. I just found some Star Wars dolls from 1980, as well as Charlie's Angels.

Fortunately, most of my siblings live fairly close, so we are all able to help. There's also no hurry.

If your DH and his sister live far away from their mother, they might want to set up a few days to clean out the house and call 1-800-GOT-JUNK to help sort and haul away the stuff. If it's cleaned out sufficiently, maybe the order to condemnation can be lifted.

[haapai]

Does the house still have utilities? 

[giramomma]

I would consult someone in elder law/elder care/elder rights if possible before making any decisions.....

[trippypea]

I guess I wasn't clear, but the kids aren't looking to get anything out of a sale for themselves. She can't keep the house, so it either has to be sold or foreclosed on. If there was any money left from a sale, it would of course go to the nursing home to cover her room and board, as it should. However, since the kids are the ones who will be incurring the expenses to clean it up, we are exploring ideas to keep those costs at a minimum since there is no return for anyone. I know it would be ultimately cheaper for us if we didn't pay to clean it up, but we are looking at what would be best for MIL.

We have no idea why the house was declared unfit since no one has seen it yet. It could be something simple like piles of junk blocking access, or it could be a horror show of filth. Once DH's sibling gets in there, they can assess what it's going to take for cleanup and if it is even doable. No one is local to her, so it's made it harder trying to handle everything at a distance right around the holidays...

 

[raeoflyte]

That is a tough, tough situation.  Good luck to you and your dh.  

A house that is condemned isn't the same thing as going through an elderly persons home who was sentimental and collected too much stuff.  Anything sentimental in a house that is condemned is likely ruined at the bottom of years and years of stuff that has turned to trash.  

[trippypea]

No co-signor on the house. I would imagine she is already on Medicaid? When I say she has nothing, I really mean nothing. She had been on disability and welfare for as long as I knew her (before we stopped talking).

I believe she is still paying the utilities; at least DH told her to. And she told him her mortgage is automatic payments, so the house is still getting paid on.

Besides old photos, I can't imagine there is anything of sentimental value in the house. She gave a list of things she wanted to the sibling to pick up, but everything else would probably be junked (heavy smoker).

[haapai]

I feel for your BIL.  Is he taking anyone else with him on this excursion?  What he finds, and what he fails to find, may be quite overwhelming. 

[Opti]

Dec 21, 2016 11:00:05 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I'm guessing it was condemned for lack of cleanliness .

Given the situation described, I wouldn't even go so far as to clean it out.  Based on MIL's permanent nursing home situation, lack of value in the house, likely terrible condition it seems like a worthless task to clean it out.

Is there anything in the house of sentimental value?  If so I would get that out of the house

Did anyone co-sign on the mortgage?  If so that will change the situation as they could be responsible for maintaining the house.

If the situation is how you described, if you go in and have the house cleaned up it will cost you time and money.  Then there are repairs that will be needed if you want to sell it.  Then costs to maintain and sell the house.  If there is enough left over after mortgage is paid, it will go to your mom and will be used to pay her medical bills.  So all your time and effort to deal with the house has just been wasted.

I know this means you are essentially putting your mom on Medicaid and letting the state pay for it, but in this situation, that seems like what needs to be done.  If you stop paying the mortgage, it will be foreclosed and then it becomes the lenders problems.

I disagree on the not cleaning part, etc. Condemned is a serious thing and I doubt lenders are quick to go after condemned homes because they likely have to be sold to a builder at a serious loss to compensate for tear down, etc. Being foreclosed on does not stop liability. Letting the lender or town control the process at best gives you the biggest debt put against the owner in exchange for limited to no involvement in the process.

Found this on the internet. I hope whomever is going to the house soon to determine how serious the condemnation is, the value of the land, and the value of the house if any minus the liabilities etc.

City or county inspectors may condemn a house because of fire hazards, unsanitary conditions, severe rodent and pest infestation, lack of basic facilities, faulty construction or dilapidation, such as the roof caving in. The inspector orders the structure vacated, usually after a 1-to-30-day period for the occupants to find other shelter. If repairs are made by the deadline, the order to vacate is canceled. If violations are corrected after the vacate date, the house can be reoccupied. In most jurisdictions, once a building has been condemned, the landlord, owner or tenant can challenge the order in court.

www.reference.com/business-finance/house-condemned-2c67ef62782a9515

[tskeeter]

I think the answer is pretty simple.

Take any family momentos and valuable personal property out of the house.

Find out the value of the house and the outstanding balance on the mortgage.

Decide if any equity in the house is enough to justify investing the time and money to clean the house up so it can be sold.

If there is no equity, or very limited equity, notify the mortgage holder that MIL is turning house over to the lender.


DW's family did something similar with her Uncle's home after he passed away.  Similar situation.  Uncle has hoarded for years.  Building was in very poor state of repair, probably needing more than $100K in repairs.  Building was not on the best part of town.  Real estate market was very depressed, with other homes in the area abandon or selling for less than $1,000.  There weren't any immediate family members living within 500 miles of Uncle's home to oversee cleaning and rebuilding.  The family couldn't afford to rebuild the home and hold it until the real estate market improved.  So, the family decided to turn the home over to the attorney settling the estate and let the chips fall where they may.  (In MI, there are professional court assigned estate settlement attorneys who settle estates for a modest fee, or a percentage of estate assets, whichever is greater.  The estate assets, including the home and car, didn't even cover the base fee.)

[Rukh O'Rorke]

this happened to my aunt. She had stayed in detroit with the old family home.

the city just took everything - liquidated - put anything possible towards her care, and she was in a state run nursing home after that.

Unless there is anything they want - I don't think they are obligated to do anything.

In my aunts case, there were valuable family articles - rings in the family for 100+ years, etc. musical instruments. No one knows what happened to it all. We only found out after it was all done.

[Opti]

Dec 21, 2016 13:00:45 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

I think the answer is pretty simple.

Take any family momentos and valuable personal property out of the house.

Find out the value of the house and the outstanding balance on the mortgage.

Decide if any equity in the house is enough to justify investing the time and money to clean the house up so it can be sold.

If there is no equity, or very limited equity, notify the mortgage holder that MIL is turning house over to the lender.


DW's family did something similar with her Uncle's home after he passed away.  Similar situation.  Uncle has hoarded for years.  Building was in very poor state of repair, probably needing more than $100K in repairs.  Building was not on the best part of town.  Real estate market was very depressed, with other homes in the area abandon or selling for less than $1,000.  There weren't any immediate family members living within 500 miles of Uncle's home to oversee cleaning and rebuilding.  The family couldn't afford to rebuild the home and hold it until the real estate market improved.  So, the family decided to turn the home over to the attorney settling the estate and let the chips fall where they may.  (In MI, there are professional court assigned estate settlement attorneys who settle estates for a modest fee, or a percentage of estate assets, whichever is greater.  The estate assets, including the home and car, didn't even cover the base fee.)

The legal liability Q is easier if the person is dead. Its more complicated if they are alive, but as pointed out in another post if an advocate deals with the details (or city or non family) the family does not need to.

[zibazinski]

Get one of those "got junk" trailers. That helps a lot.

[swamp]

take out whatever personal property you want.

FInd out what the outstanding balance on the mortgage is. Ask a real estate agent for an estimated sales price. Will the sale cover the mortgage and closing costs?

Yes? Sell it.

No? Leave it and tell the bank for foreclose.

[Tiny]

Dec 21, 2016 16:08:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

take out whatever personal property you want.

FInd out what the outstanding balance on the mortgage is. Ask a real estate agent for an estimated sales price. Will the sale cover the mortgage and closing costs?

Yes? Sell it.

No? Leave it and tell the bank for foreclose.

    as a shopper/buyer of house(s) that have seen better days... swamp's advice is solid.    

When you get the estimated sales price from the real estate agent and think you can sell it to cover your costs - don't forget to include some estimates for the cleanup - dumpsters aint cheap.   Special clean up (if there's mold or just scary old trash) isn't cheap.

[Bonny]

Dec 21, 2016 14:11:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Dec 21, 2016 13:00:45 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

I think the answer is pretty simple.

Take any family momentos and valuable personal property out of the house.

Find out the value of the house and the outstanding balance on the mortgage.

Decide if any equity in the house is enough to justify investing the time and money to clean the house up so it can be sold.

If there is no equity, or very limited equity, notify the mortgage holder that MIL is turning house over to the lender.


DW's family did something similar with her Uncle's home after he passed away.  Similar situation.  Uncle has hoarded for years.  Building was in very poor state of repair, probably needing more than $100K in repairs.  Building was not on the best part of town.  Real estate market was very depressed, with other homes in the area abandon or selling for less than $1,000.  There weren't any immediate family members living within 500 miles of Uncle's home to oversee cleaning and rebuilding.  The family couldn't afford to rebuild the home and hold it until the real estate market improved.  So, the family decided to turn the home over to the attorney settling the estate and let the chips fall where they may.  (In MI, there are professional court assigned estate settlement attorneys who settle estates for a modest fee, or a percentage of estate assets, whichever is greater.  The estate assets, including the home and car, didn't even cover the base fee.)

The legal liability Q is easier if the person is dead. Its more complicated if they are alive, but as pointed out in another post if an advocate deals with the details (or city or non family) the family does not need to.

The liability for a shortage is state specific.

And even if there is a shortage it doesn't sound like she has any other assets which the bank could attach.

[haapai]

If I ever get tapped to do something like this, I'll probably order the dumpster prior to even entering the house and I'll never give the side-eye to anyone else for doing the same. 

It doesn't really matter if the person is a hoarder or say anything about their stuff.  It's about not having to handle stuff twice, especially the stuff that was in the fridge.