973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 22, 2016 7:07:28 GMT -5
Wow. You take out a loan. They give you money in exchange for your promise to pay it back. Forty years later you haven't and they start taking it out of your SS. It's so UNFAIR! ;-) I understand what you are saying. I agree and believe me we have paid our share of SL's. But the link I posted up above showed the stats on people who owe on student loans and private student loans. And the vast majority don't ever graduate. The other weird thing, at least to me, is the most private student loans go to the borrowers with the lowest FICO scores. Now it could be a big coincedence but logic tells me it isn't an accident when it is happening over and over. I also think the majority of defaults are from graduate plus loans which are on top of being much higher are also much more apt to be a student who isn't 20 something. Someone who is 22 probably will be able to pay off a loan long before SS and disability takes over almost always. But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Dec 22, 2016 9:25:05 GMT -5
does she even qualify for SS? And if she did - it would be a pittance. they average 35 years - sounds like a lot of zeros.... You only need 40 credits to qualify and can do that working really part time (about 5K/year) in 10 years.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Dec 22, 2016 9:45:56 GMT -5
I knew a people who admitted they had no clue what to do with their degrees so they were "going to go onto graduate school" because at least then they could continue to defer their loans. Had no clue what to do with the graduate degree either. You could be describing me .
Fortunately, I got my undergrad degree in the UK with a tiny student loan (about $3,000, which my Dad paid off) and my graduate degree in the US was paid for by the school. Otherwise, I would be in "a world of hurt"!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 10:02:01 GMT -5
You only need 40 credits to qualify and can do that working really part time (about 5K/year) in 10 years. Yes, I know. I saw that I was just addressing the qualification part. However, I punched in 25K/year from 1988 to 2004 with no other working years on the SS calculator and it came up with $1076/month at 67. Not a fortune, but not a hell of a lot less than mine comes up with working for the full 40 years. www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Dec 22, 2016 10:06:07 GMT -5
Wow. You take out a loan. They give you money in exchange for your promise to pay it back. Forty years later you haven't and they start taking it out of your SS. It's so UNFAIR! ;-) I understand what you are saying. I agree and believe me we have paid our share of SL's. But the link I posted up above showed the stats on people who owe on student loans and private student loans. And the vast majority don't ever graduate. The other weird thing, at least to me, is the most private student loans go to the borrowers with the lowest FICO scores. Now it could be a big coincedence but logic tells me it isn't an accident when it is happening over and over. I also think the majority of defaults are from graduate plus loans which are on top of being much higher are also much more apt to be a student who isn't 20 something. Someone who is 22 probably will be able to pay off a loan long before SS and disability takes over almost always. But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? Again, the article is the problem 0.2% of the population of social security checks being used to pay student loans. A lot of the student loan problem is not 18 year olds going to college and not paying off their loans. It is a lot of people going back to school, or going to an online school with not so great reputation so they can "get a degree". A lot of these are not traditional students and a lot of them struggle with college work. Low graduation rates mean a lot of people have student loans and are not getting better jobs. If you start later in life you may have more issues.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 22, 2016 10:42:24 GMT -5
Wow. You take out a loan. They give you money in exchange for your promise to pay it back. Forty years later you haven't and they start taking it out of your SS. It's so UNFAIR! ;-) But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 10:49:59 GMT -5
But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... My grandmother got a 30 year mortgage in her 80's. The banks don't care. The average length of a mortgage is only something like 6 or 7 years before people refinance or sell. When she passed away at 92, the house was sold and the bank was paid off.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 22, 2016 11:00:49 GMT -5
But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... We will be this category soon. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) We were looking to buy another house and were going to mortgage it. I don't mean to say all later in life college students are bad. The majority actually do better than traditional students as far as graduation rates. It is just the length of time is so much shorter before retirement. So if someone has a set back it is just much easier to recover from when you are 30 than 50. Mortgages also have a built in limit. Banks won't just lend any amount of money without a sign that the person should probably be able to repay it. Student loans and especially private student loans don't have that. They have no idea what a person will make or even that they will graduate. Yet a private SL company will lend hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone with a very cursory credit check. The only reason that happens is because they know they will get paid since they are federally backed. I am all for having student loans so someone who doesn't come from money can go to college. BUT private student loans IMO shouldn't be federally backed unless they have the same low interest rate and the same safe guards as fed student loans do. Otherwise there is no reason to have that high interest rate when they know they have no risk.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 22, 2016 11:07:26 GMT -5
I guess banks don't care about older mortgage holders because there is an asset to take if the payments aren't made.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 22, 2016 11:12:08 GMT -5
I know the rallying cry is always oler people are on a fixed income but older people are also normally richer people. And no matter how hard I try my income has always been pretty fixed.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Dec 22, 2016 11:13:08 GMT -5
I know lots of people who would have to read legal/banking language multiple times to even begin to get the gist of it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if lots of people read it and still didn't absorb what it said. There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population. While the overall sentiment is true, what we're talking about here really aren't obscure legalese references. I've literally never read or signed a student loan document, and I still know the basics about them. The things we're talking about here are things that anyone could learn with a quick internet search, things that anyone could have explained to them at the time they signed them, or things that anyone with common sense would understand.
I think a part of the problem is that even if it were written in the most plain English possible, nobody would read it because almost nobody takes out a loan expecting bad things to happen later in life and considering what they would do financially. It's not like anyone thought they were getting free money, and only some little tiny print indicated they would have to pay it back. It's not even like they said "sign here, 0% interest" then in tiny lettering indicated the interest rate was 30% after a month or something. It's not legal mumbo jumbo...it's a loan, you have to pay it back, if you don't there are consequences and penalties. That's a pretty basic concept. It's hard to imagine who exactly would have had that explained to them in the most easily understood words ever and then somehow said "hmmm, if that's the deal, then no thanks" and walked away. I'm not sure comprehension of the agreement is likely to be a major factor here.
Your faith in the intelligence and education of the general population is heatwarming. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) However, I never said it was an all encompassing problem, but one that exists. For a good chunk of the people signing these things and getting themselves into these kinds of problems, this is probably a factor. I should have said "this population" in my original post instead of "the population" to be more clear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 11:16:58 GMT -5
I know the rallying cry is always oler people are on a fixed income but older people are also normally richer people. And no matter how hard I try my income has always been pretty fixed. I've never understood the entire "fixed income" thing either. A guaranteed check in the mail every month seems more secure than someone working who could get laid off or injured or sick and not able to go to work.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 22, 2016 11:29:22 GMT -5
Wow. You take out a loan. They give you money in exchange for your promise to pay it back. Forty years later you haven't and they start taking it out of your SS. It's so UNFAIR! ;-)Not only it's unfair, it' so unexpected!!!! I mean, you got money such a long time ago! Who can even remember that far back!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 22, 2016 11:34:09 GMT -5
But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... So, my IL"s just refinanced their house for another 15 yrs bc they didn't have money for a car. They are both 79. Oh and the icing on the cake - the house is going to be willed to their daughter. The same one who still has SL debt and hasn't worked since 2004. The same daughter who is living with them since 2008 bc her and her husband couldn't afford oil for the winter and moved in for "a few months" and never left. While their own house is now in foreclosure. I am just stocking up on popcorn - it's going to be a side show seeing how everything is going to unfold in another 5 yrs or so.....
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 22, 2016 11:39:40 GMT -5
lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... So, my IL"s just refinanced their house for another 15 yrs bc they didn't have money for a car. They are both 79. Oh and the icing on the cake - the house is going to be willed to their daughter. The same one who still has SL debt and hasn't worked since 2004. The same daughter who is living with them since 2008 bc her and her husband couldn't afford oil for the winter and moved in for "a few months" and never left. While their own house is now in foreclosure. I am just stocking up on popcorn - it's going to be a side show seeing how everything is going to unfold in another 5 yrs or so..... don't think your husband won't be asked to step in and save the day at some point...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 22, 2016 12:04:51 GMT -5
So, my IL"s just refinanced their house for another 15 yrs bc they didn't have money for a car. They are both 79. Oh and the icing on the cake - the house is going to be willed to their daughter. The same one who still has SL debt and hasn't worked since 2004. The same daughter who is living with them since 2008 bc her and her husband couldn't afford oil for the winter and moved in for "a few months" and never left. While their own house is now in foreclosure. I am just stocking up on popcorn - it's going to be a side show seeing how everything is going to unfold in another 5 yrs or so..... don't think your husband won't be asked to step in and save the day at some point... Well, my only concern is that he loves that house (IL's )bc it's the one where he grew up. Otherwise, his stand is "my sister has a husband, let him take care of her" We shall see.......
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 22, 2016 13:46:01 GMT -5
But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... But the 50 year old getting the mortgage has collateral. You don't pay your mortgage and the bank forecloses on your house. The person doesn't lose their degree
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 22, 2016 13:57:06 GMT -5
But the 40 something is much more dicey. Suddenly it is a much riskier. A person who takes out SL's to go to graduate school can quickly find they have a heart attack or stroke or get lupus and can't work or not near enough to pay the $200,000 loan they took out. What do we do with them? lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... Oh, I see you meet my mother in law... so pissed about having a mortgage when she wanted to retire.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 22, 2016 16:16:29 GMT -5
Clarify for me why HS counselors have an interest in students taking out as much student loan money as possible. To me, this is precisely the kind of thing a HS counselor SHOULD be doing with their time. Not sure I see the conflict of interest. Rate of graduates that go on to college. One kid not going for lack of money is one number taken away from their stats. Helps with grades if the district grades schools. Even more important in choice districts where kids choose where to go. Student loans make it so they can go increase the high schools stats. I understand why they want kids to take out loans to attend college...I don't think that's synonymous with counselors wanting them to take out the most possible money. I think that's an important distinction as much of the problem seems to be not that people are taking out loans to attend college, but the sheer amount of money they're borrowing.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 22, 2016 16:25:25 GMT -5
While the overall sentiment is true, what we're talking about here really aren't obscure legalese references. I've literally never read or signed a student loan document, and I still know the basics about them. The things we're talking about here are things that anyone could learn with a quick internet search, things that anyone could have explained to them at the time they signed them, or things that anyone with common sense would understand.
I think a part of the problem is that even if it were written in the most plain English possible, nobody would read it because almost nobody takes out a loan expecting bad things to happen later in life and considering what they would do financially. It's not like anyone thought they were getting free money, and only some little tiny print indicated they would have to pay it back. It's not even like they said "sign here, 0% interest" then in tiny lettering indicated the interest rate was 30% after a month or something. It's not legal mumbo jumbo...it's a loan, you have to pay it back, if you don't there are consequences and penalties. That's a pretty basic concept. It's hard to imagine who exactly would have had that explained to them in the most easily understood words ever and then somehow said "hmmm, if that's the deal, then no thanks" and walked away. I'm not sure comprehension of the agreement is likely to be a major factor here.
Your faith in the intelligence and education of the general population is heatwarming. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) However, I never said it was an all encompassing problem, but one that exists. For a good chunk of the people signing these things and getting themselves into these kinds of problems, this is probably a factor. I should have said "this population" in my original post instead of "the population" to be more clear. I'm not sure that signing these things is actually the problem (or at least not understanding what they're signing isn't a problem for this particular situation). I would venture to say that most people, even if they understood every small detail, would have still signed the document. That means it's not a problem of comprehending the agreement, it's something else. I'm guessing that a small portion of the population has a significant misunderstanding (like thinking they can just dissolve the debt in bankruptcy or something...though if they don't understand student loans in general, they probably also don't have a great grasp of bankruptcy).
The "something else" is probably a combination of not being good with money, instant gratification, an overly optimistic look at future earning power, etc.
I don't think most people understand the entirety of what they sign. In this particular case though, the part that's biting them on the ass is the part about how you need to repay money you borrow. I think most people understand that part. I'd tend to side with them not understanding if the part that was coming back to haunt them was something a bit more entrenched in the legalese.
For people who get themselves into this kind of trouble (having SS checks garnished due to outstanding SLs), what part of the loan agreement do you think was potentially misunderstood that would have led them to make a different decision on accepting the loan?
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Dec 22, 2016 17:29:22 GMT -5
I believe they understood they had to pay it back, I think they may have thought they could circumvent paying it back somehow, I don't know how or what they thought about that though.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 22, 2016 18:00:00 GMT -5
lump them in with the 50+ year old people getting a house with a 30 year mortgage, which I also don't understand. If they only make minimum payments, there is a big chance they could be dead, incapacitated, unable to live on their own or unable to continue working before the mortgage is paid off - and yet they still qualify... But the 50 year old getting the mortgage has collateral. You don't pay your mortgage and the bank forecloses on your house. The person doesn't lose their degree All the more reason why they should have to pay it back.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Dec 26, 2016 18:23:14 GMT -5
The lack of transparency is a big beef that I have with the whole college and student loan racket. College is collect Social Security numbers they know what degree you get and what your GPA was the IRS has your Social Security number and they know what you earned every year after you graduate. It would be pathetically easy to marry those two data sets and And be able to tell students The median earnings of people who got degree X from college Z. Even looking at transfers and graduate degrees wouldn't make it that hard. I deal with data that is a hell of a lot bigger and a hell of a lot more complex than this.
And don't think for a moment that the lying about future earnings is confined to for-profit institutions. The professors at my state school where I went to graduate school routinely out right lied to students about their future earnings. Not just my department I heard the same deal from students and a lot of departments.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Dec 26, 2016 19:19:00 GMT -5
I had to quit work way early not by choice so my SS is low, its over $1000 a month but after ins only $941, very disappointing and I did work 30 years at least. Taking it at 62 is a killer, DH told me not to but I was tired of not having some money of my own after having had earnings so many years then none.
I think low SS and disability payments are why there are so many people on food stamps and other benefit programs, lots of old and sick people that just don't get enough to live and eat and never made a lot of money. If they start cutting all this people in this country are going to go into a level of poverty we have never seen unless family can help. I think we will see it like it was in the depression, with all this income cut it will hurt across the board. So instead of having the billionaires pay more they are going to cut from the near destitute. I think its a sin and and crime against humanity. Their greed knows no bounds.
Then they have little anyway and taking it in student loans, yes, maybe they were stupid but now they are old and nearly destitute and hurting even more.
I know an old man that works at Walmart locally everyday, he is ill, has COPD, but doesn't have enough to live. He goes out gets carts, works all the time and you can just look at him and see how exhausted he is I figure he needs it to help pay for meds. He never had good paying jobs so he is still at it, likely will be till he drops over dead. No student loans for him just little money.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 26, 2016 19:29:14 GMT -5
I believe that there are some laws that limit the use of social security numbers as unique identifiers that put the kibosh on the collection of decent data. The data is out there, all nicely marked with a SSN, but you're not allowed to use the SSN and if you can't use the SSN except as a secondary identifier, your data comes out really ratty and needs a lot of privacy-threatening trouble-shooting.
It's a tidy little excuse that some big entities really benefit from.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Dec 27, 2016 12:01:40 GMT -5
My compassion levels are probably lower than yours - but some that I know are more crooked than stupid. Food stamps, 99 weeks of UI, free meds for the kids, PLUS a student loan that is spent on a car and a laptop computer (while meeting minimum community college requirements). Ie, 'gaming the system'. And with no intentions of ever repaying the loan. And that's OK, it's all legal and in accordance with the rules - but I won't mind watching them struggle a bit when they 'retire' at age 65.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 27, 2016 12:04:33 GMT -5
My compassion levels are probably lower than yours - but some that I know are more crooked than stupid. Food stamps, 99 weeks of UI, free meds for the kids, PLUS a student loan that is spent on a car and a laptop computer (while meeting minimum community college requirements). Ie, 'gaming the system'. And with no intentions of ever repaying the loan. And that's OK, it's all legal and in accordance with the rules - but I won't mind watching them struggle a bit when they 'retire' at age 65. Not so sure they wait til 65. Probably 63 and early retirement. Many probably file disability years earlier also.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 27, 2016 20:38:45 GMT -5
Take it all until it's paid off. Disability shouldn't be exempt either.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Dec 27, 2016 20:46:12 GMT -5
I hope I never need help from someone like you, what made you so hard hearted?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 27, 2016 20:48:26 GMT -5
You borrow, you pay. It's as simple as that. No one forced them to borrow money but they did and now it's time to pay the piper. It used to be shameful to be a deadbeat or on the dole. Now it's not and this is what we get.
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