MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 21, 2016 10:34:41 GMT -5
I'm just hoping that X is still working at the university when it's time for DS to go to college. Can't beat free tuition and being able to live at Mom or Dad's for free! If he wants to do anything else, we'll help him financially (as dictated by NJ family court law apparently), but he will definitely be on the hook for the rest.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Dec 21, 2016 10:45:08 GMT -5
I still don't get it. There are a lot of options for federal loan repayment if you simply call and ask. You may not qualify for all of them but like I said my lender is willing to bend over backwards to assist. They want to get paid back so it's in their best interest to figure out how to do it. Or is my company the only one that kills an entire forest in order to send you regular information about your loans and assistance for repayment? Our old mortgage company loved to kill an entire forest to send us stuff to refinance our mortgage. We would even get letters sent to us via priority mail. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) Even the week we were closing on our old house (so title company already requested the payoff amount), we were still getting letters. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 21, 2016 10:53:01 GMT -5
Looks like only federal can take your refund and SS checks. Private has to get a judgement against you and then try to collect/garnish wages. If it's only federal then I don't get how you come to the point where your SS is seized. You shouldn't be able to borrow enough to get that far in over your head. Then at least my loan company is willing to bend over backwards till they snap to help you make your payments. I was given a giant manilla folder before I graduated with my final loan balance, the terms and then stacks of paper listing all the ways the company could assist me if I found the calculated payment unaffordable. Nowadays I get regular emails and on their web site in big red block letters it tells me if I am struggling to please call this number so they can assist. Taking my refunds and SS check are the absolute last resort. I'd have to have ignored the thousands upon thousands of notices I've recieved over the years to get to that point. I ended up going with consolidation and that's kept my payment to where I could make it even at $20k/year. It's depressing when I see how long I still have left of my term but at least I can make the payments. Here is an example for you. My SIL got SL and got her degree in sociology. She did have jobs after college, but evidently her spending was so great, that by the time she was 30, she declared BK, while still living in home with her parents! Obviously, she never paid off any of her loans. By the time she turned 37, she decided that she was no longer able to work bc she is too sickly ( no one really knows what her sickness is). She will be 50 next year and hasn't worked since 2004. In another 15 yrs if she decides to collect her SS, and if the law is still in effect - they would be garnishing her SS
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 10:55:09 GMT -5
Yeah, if you just don't pay it, it doesn't matter if it was originally only 20K.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 21, 2016 11:18:05 GMT -5
I rarely see any docs come from dh's student loans. Some of that is that dh can't take ownership for them and I've had to backdoor in to get access to them. His private loans went into collections before I found out about anything being late and I ended up just paying them off with a lump sum. He didn't have that many payment options for his federal loans though either. Hardship, or repay over 10, 20, or 30 years. He'd use IBR without my income, but that would hurt considering his income level.
His loans are manageable because we could live almost entirely on my income while he was in school. He made some truly painful choices that he really should have known better before they happened, but based on the plan and real income potential when he started school the loans wouldn't have been that big a deal and it was easy to get in that mindset. Plans changed though which is something that honestly neither of us really though much about.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Dec 21, 2016 11:38:50 GMT -5
The problem with this type of article is that it makes it sound like it is a big problem. Per the SS website, there are almost 66 million checks sent out (direct deposited more likely) every month. So the number in the article is less than 0.2% of the checks.
If you take out loans and do not pay them, there are consequences. People take out mortgages and don't pay them and get kicked out of their homes. People get evicted from apartments for not paying rent. Bad things happen when you don't pay your bills.
The gloom and doom articles always point out those who have problems without really stating the overall impact of the problem. Plenty of people utilize loans to pay for school and pay them back.
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WholeLottaNothin
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Post by WholeLottaNothin on Dec 21, 2016 11:42:42 GMT -5
I rarely see any docs come from dh's student loans. Some of that is that dh can't take ownership for them and I've had to backdoor in to get access to them. His private loans went into collections before I found out about anything being late and I ended up just paying them off with a lump sum. He didn't have that many payment options for his federal loans though either. Hardship, or repay over 10, 20, or 30 years. He'd use IBR without my income, but that would hurt considering his income level. His loans are manageable because we could live almost entirely on my income while he was in school. He made some truly painful choices that he really should have known better before they happened, but based on the plan and real income potential when he started school the loans wouldn't have been that big a deal and it was easy to get in that mindset. Plans changed though which is something that honestly neither of us really though much about. I rarely see anything either, but when I sign on to make a payment, the information is there. I should pay mine off in the next couple of months so this should be a moot point for me. I paid off one a couple years ago, and I even had to sign on to print off the confirmation that is was paid in full. They wouldn't even mail that to me. I have Nelnet.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2016 12:01:32 GMT -5
I signed up for e-file so I don't get nearly as much paperwork as I used to. When I first took them out and while i was in college I'd get a form every quarter with my current loan information, the interest rates and what my payment would be if I wanted to pre-pay. I got so many of them I had to purchase a folder to keep them all in.
I pay online but save all my confirmations in a folder labeled "payments". I see all the information regarding my loans and when I click to the payment screen on the right side is a giant red letter statement saying "If you are struggling to meet your payments please call 1-800....".
DH got in trouble with his and he only had $5k. This was when we were engaged and he lost his job. He hid the notices but I happened to open the final one because it had giant red letters on the envelope. Instead of budgeting properly he just chose to not pay and was very close to being in default. I flipped my lid and from that point onward I took over paying his loans.
He's been paid off for a couple of years now but I could see if he had continued to stick his head in the sand that we'd be in for a world of hurt right about now. Interest does not stop accumulating, late fees accumulate and by the time they would have started seizing our refunds I'd imagine the balance would be higher than my loans.
I took the 20 year consolidation plan. Yeah it's extended the term of my loan but made the payments affordable despite making jack squat. It's depressing sometimes to realize I still got 13 years left to go but it was a smart strategy for the most part.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Dec 21, 2016 12:49:06 GMT -5
I still don't get it. There are a lot of options for federal loan repayment if you simply call and ask. You may not qualify for all of them but like I said my lender is willing to bend over backwards to assist. They want to get paid back so it's in their best interest to figure out how to do it. Or is my company the only one that kills an entire forest in order to send you regular information about your loans and assistance for repayment? As mid noted, once you hit grad school you can borrow a lot of money. Easily six figures. But, I have a few friends from college, who had unsubdized loans, and kept deferring them Or putting them into forebearance. Compounding interest, especially when it was locked in at 8-10% (which was the rate when I was in school) isn't pretty. However, I also know at least one person who thought I felt they didn't pay their loans they'd just go away. Some people just put their heads in the sand.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Dec 21, 2016 13:18:15 GMT -5
For those getting their tax refunds intercepted, wouldn't it be a simple thing to lower their withholding throughout the year? Then there would be no refund to lose. They'd even take home more on their regular paychecks. Oh well, they need to pay their debts, regardless. Noone gives me a break on mine. Anyone who feels it's better to forfeit their refund to the government by not filing instead of having the government apply it to their outstanding student loans is not all that financially savvy. their refund isn't garnering interest - but their loan sure is!
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Dec 21, 2016 13:32:15 GMT -5
Looks like only federal can take your refund and SS checks. Private has to get a judgement against you and then try to collect/garnish wages. If it's only federal then I don't get how you come to the point where your SS is seized. You shouldn't be able to borrow enough to get that far in over your head. Then at least my loan company is willing to bend over backwards till they snap to help you make your payments. I was given a giant manilla folder before I graduated with my final loan balance, the terms and then stacks of paper listing all the ways the company could assist me if I found the calculated payment unaffordable. Nowadays I get regular emails and on their web site in big red block letters it tells me if I am struggling to please call this number so they can assist. Taking my refunds and SS check are the absolute last resort. I'd have to have ignored the thousands upon thousands of notices I've recieved over the years to get to that point. I ended up going with consolidation and that's kept my payment to where I could make it even at $20k/year. It's depressing when I see how long I still have left of my term but at least I can make the payments. Here is an example for you. My SIL got SL and got her degree in sociology. She did have jobs after college, but evidently her spending was so great, that by the time she was 30, she declared BK, while still living in home with her parents! Obviously, she never paid off any of her loans. By the time she turned 37, she decided that she was no longer able to work bc she is too sickly ( no one really knows what her sickness is). She will be 50 next year and hasn't worked since 2004. In another 15 yrs if she decides to collect her SS, and if the law is still in effect - they would be garnishing her SS does she even qualify for SS? And if she did - it would be a pittance. they average 35 years - sounds like a lot of zeros....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:49:01 GMT -5
Here is an example for you. My SIL got SL and got her degree in sociology. She did have jobs after college, but evidently her spending was so great, that by the time she was 30, she declared BK, while still living in home with her parents! Obviously, she never paid off any of her loans. By the time she turned 37, she decided that she was no longer able to work bc she is too sickly ( no one really knows what her sickness is). She will be 50 next year and hasn't worked since 2004. In another 15 yrs if she decides to collect her SS, and if the law is still in effect - they would be garnishing her SS does she even qualify for SS? And if she did - it would be a pittance. they average 35 years - sounds like a lot of zeros.... You only need 40 credits to qualify and can do that working really part time (about 5K/year) in 10 years.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 21, 2016 14:09:24 GMT -5
I've always wondered what kind of collection costs and late fees can be tacked onto these loans and whether that amount also accrues interest.
I also wonder about how the amounts withheld from social security are calculated. Are the docked amounts similar to the repayment plan that the debtor would qualify for based on the amount owed? Can the entire check be taken if the amount owed is large enough?
I hit a paywall when I clicked on the WSJ article, did I miss anything?
Details like this were not divulged when I signed my promissory notes and I have never seen or heard an accounting of a student loan default that answers these questions.
It occurs to me that at a certain point adding charges or interest to an unpaid balance actually decreases the probability that any portion of the balance will be paid. If my student loan balance was high enough that my entire social security check would be grabbed, I'd probably delay filing for benefits until some social worker forced me to do so as a precondition for receiving medical care or housing.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Dec 21, 2016 14:22:27 GMT -5
Like alabamagal said the article is overblown (like most seem to be these days) but I do wonder about people sometimes...I hate to say it but a lot of people just don't seem very smart, or at least don't take the time to think too hard, when it comes this type of stuff. I have a friend who has a $600 a month student loan payment for an online degree that is essentially useless. Now he is working on his masters online and has put them in forebearance. He is saying "oh yay, now I have an extra $600 a month to spend," not even remotely thinking of the consequences down the line.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2016 14:49:10 GMT -5
I knew a people who admitted they had no clue what to do with their degrees so they were "going to go onto graduate school" because at least then they could continue to defer their loans. Had no clue what to do with the graduate degree either. This was not limited to non-STEM majors. You can't fix stupid but I DO think it would be helpful to require a financial class before you sign the dotted line. I had to attend one before I was allowed to graduate that went over repayment terms and stuff. I remember sitting there wondering why they wait until there is no going back to explain this stuff to you. ETA: I will say that I am proud of the fact that my final loan balance estimate was only about $100 off from the actual balance. I paid attention to all those pieces of paper showing up at my doorstep. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Dec 21, 2016 15:04:38 GMT -5
This is just absolute moronic behaviour at it's finest. You can't ignore ... what ... years and years of mailings and notices and then be like "Oh why is this happening" I think there is a very low percentage of people that maybe have a low IQ that perhaps didn't understand or didn't have the capability to understand. The rest are just playing the fool in the game of life.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 21, 2016 15:09:04 GMT -5
I know a couple people who had problems and put their loans in forbearance for various reason. Some were unemployment. some were medical problems that caused them not to be able to work.
The result is after a few years on forbearance their loans had grown a lot! This was back when there weren't as many things you could do. So the only option was pay the full amount or put it in forbearance and have interest on top of interest build up. And BK isn't an option for student loans.
Some of the worst stories were when someone had fed SL's and private. The fed loans are way more forgiving! The private loan companies don't give a shit about anything. It is a student loan and you have to pay it whether you can or not. One woman was on disablility. He private loan company the loan payment ballooned up to $900 a month. Her total income was only $1200. Clearly there was no way she could pay it but it didn't matter. the law said that she had to and they were not going to accept anything less.
I'm assuming that the private SL companies do this because it pushes the loan into default quicker and they get their money from the Feds quicker that way since private loans are insured. It is the only thing that makes sense.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Dec 21, 2016 15:11:12 GMT -5
I know lots of people who would have to read legal/banking language multiple times to even begin to get the gist of it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if lots of people read it and still didn't absorb what it said.
There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 21, 2016 15:22:48 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 21, 2016 15:29:01 GMT -5
Yup, I remember sitting in that required class too. I really wondered what was going through the heads of the folks around me. I'd majored in accounting and was five years older than the folks around me, so I wasn't too freaked out about the variable interest rates and terms and the numbers that were produced when they were applied, but I really wondered about the folks around me.
That class should be much more clear-cut now that the interest rates are fixed. Entry-counseling is much more doable now.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2016 15:30:20 GMT -5
There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population.
Ugh tell me about it. I went cross eyed trying to read our mortgage paperwork and even with the little booklet I got confused.
With the help of Google and our lender we figured it out. If we had not the second page of our paperwork was a huge list of third party counseling service that would assist us for a modest/no fee figure out the paperwork. We had to sign that we had recieved it as a requirement to get our mortgage.
They should make that a mandatory part of taking out student loans too, along with a class. NOT given by the HS counselors or college admissions department which of course have an interest in you taking out as much as possible.
You still can't fix stupid, there will be people who go thru all that and still get into trouble we can't save everyone from themselves. But it would be beneficial because I am assuming for most 18 year olds their student loan promissary note is the first time they've ever seen loan paperwork.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2016 15:53:18 GMT -5
I think one of the most important things we can tell 18 year olds is don't sign stuff you don't understand! I remember getting an awful lot of pressure from the HS counselor to hurry up and sign up for aid because I didn't want to miss out and be unable to go to college did I? My parents and grandmother hammered home to me do not sign anything in that woman's office. Bring it home first. Our mortgage paperwork was the same way! We did not recieve it till 9:30 pm on the 9th but the letter stated we had to make sure we got it back to the bank by the 10th if we "want to make sure our loan gets processed in time". WTF? I imagine quite a few people hurry up and fill out the packet without reading it due to fear they will miss out on buying their desired home. I cannot figure out if that was stupidity on the part of the company that handles the paperwork, an inept UPS drive who waited till the last minute or if the letter was deliberately written that way and sent at the last minute to try to coerce us into signing as quickly as possible.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 21, 2016 16:08:00 GMT -5
I will never discount the power of stupidity/ineptitude, but my money is on the last option.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 21, 2016 16:10:00 GMT -5
I think one of the most important things we can tell 18 year olds is don't sign stuff you don't understand! I remember getting an awful lot of pressure from the HS counselor to hurry up and sign up for aid because I didn't want to miss out and be unable to go to college did I? My parents and grandmother hammered home to me do not sign anything in that woman's office. Bring it home first. Our mortgage paperwork was the same way! We did not recieve it till 9:30 pm on the 9th but the letter stated we had to make sure we got it back to the bank by the 10th if we "want to make sure our loan gets processed in time". WTF? I imagine quite a few people hurry up and fill out the packet without reading it due to fear they will miss out on buying their desired home. I cannot figure out if that was stupidity on the part of the company that handles the paperwork, an inept UPS drive who waited till the last minute or if the letter was deliberately written that way and sent at the last minute to try to coerce us into signing as quickly as possible and not question things. I'm guessing the latter. I've gotten more than a few pieces of mail dated on the first but postmarked on the fourth or seventh day of the month. It used to be customary to save the envelope for this very reason.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 21, 2016 16:15:29 GMT -5
Joke is on them, we read it and didn't sign till Monday.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 21, 2016 17:27:08 GMT -5
I know lots of people who would have to read legal/banking language multiple times to even begin to get the gist of it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if lots of people read it and still didn't absorb what it said. There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population. While the overall sentiment is true, what we're talking about here really aren't obscure legalese references. I've literally never read or signed a student loan document, and I still know the basics about them. The things we're talking about here are things that anyone could learn with a quick internet search, things that anyone could have explained to them at the time they signed them, or things that anyone with common sense would understand.
I think a part of the problem is that even if it were written in the most plain English possible, nobody would read it because almost nobody takes out a loan expecting bad things to happen later in life and considering what they would do financially. It's not like anyone thought they were getting free money, and only some little tiny print indicated they would have to pay it back. It's not even like they said "sign here, 0% interest" then in tiny lettering indicated the interest rate was 30% after a month or something. It's not legal mumbo jumbo...it's a loan, you have to pay it back, if you don't there are consequences and penalties. That's a pretty basic concept. It's hard to imagine who exactly would have had that explained to them in the most easily understood words ever and then somehow said "hmmm, if that's the deal, then no thanks" and walked away. I'm not sure comprehension of the agreement is likely to be a major factor here.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 21, 2016 17:29:53 GMT -5
There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population.
Ugh tell me about it. I went cross eyed trying to read our mortgage paperwork and even with the little booklet I got confused. With the help of Google and our lender we figured it out. If we had not the second page of our paperwork was a huge list of third party counseling service that would assist us for a modest/no fee figure out the paperwork. We had to sign that we had recieved it as a requirement to get our mortgage. They should make that a mandatory part of taking out student loans too, along with a class. NOT given by the HS counselors or college admissions department which of course have an interest in you taking out as much as possible. You still can't fix stupid, there will be people who go thru all that and still get into trouble we can't save everyone from themselves. But it would be beneficial because I am assuming for most 18 year olds their student loan promissary note is the first time they've ever seen loan paperwork. Clarify for me why HS counselors have an interest in students taking out as much student loan money as possible. To me, this is precisely the kind of thing a HS counselor SHOULD be doing with their time. Not sure I see the conflict of interest.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 21, 2016 18:05:00 GMT -5
There are the ostriches of the world that really need a kick in the head over ignoring all the notices, but the way some (most, all?) of these documents are written are surely not helping a good portion of the population.
Ugh tell me about it. I went cross eyed trying to read our mortgage paperwork and even with the little booklet I got confused. With the help of Google and our lender we figured it out. If we had not the second page of our paperwork was a huge list of third party counseling service that would assist us for a modest/no fee figure out the paperwork. We had to sign that we had recieved it as a requirement to get our mortgage. They should make that a mandatory part of taking out student loans too, along with a class. NOT given by the HS counselors or college admissions department which of course have an interest in you taking out as much as possible. You still can't fix stupid, there will be people who go thru all that and still get into trouble we can't save everyone from themselves. But it would be beneficial because I am assuming for most 18 year olds their student loan promissary note is the first time they've ever seen loan paperwork. Clarify for me why HS counselors have an interest in students taking out as much student loan money as possible. To me, this is precisely the kind of thing a HS counselor SHOULD be doing with their time. Not sure I see the conflict of interest. Rate of graduates that go on to college. One kid not going for lack of money is one number taken away from their stats. Helps with grades if the district grades schools. Even more important in choice districts where kids choose where to go. Student loans make it so they can go increase the high schools stats.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 21, 2016 20:31:17 GMT -5
does she even qualify for SS? And if she did - it would be a pittance. they average 35 years - sounds like a lot of zeros.... You only need 40 credits to qualify and can do that working really part time (about 5K/year) in 10 years. Still, it's surely not much money.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 22:09:26 GMT -5
Wow. You take out a loan. They give you money in exchange for your promise to pay it back. Forty years later you haven't and they start taking it out of your SS. It's so UNFAIR! ;-)
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