toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 9:11:44 GMT -5
I am not so sure it is a good question but i will answer it out of politeness, i ask questions to make people think about their belief in god, consider me a teacher or preacher of sorts.  Thank you for your answer and thank God for you! Up until this moment, I had never put one minute of thought into my beliefs! One minute of critical thought is all that is required to dismiss belief, can i put you down as a convert? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 9:14:22 GMT -5
So your idea of critical thought is, 'toshmanta says so, so it must be true'?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 29, 2016 9:20:20 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer and thank God for you! Up until this moment, I had never put one minute of thought into my beliefs! One minute of critical thought is all that is required to dismiss belief, can i put you down as a convert? Sorry for the delay in reply. I was on Amazon ordering you a strop.
In answer to your question...I think I'll go on as I am for now. If I'm wrong...I'm wrong. If you're wrong...you are toast! 
Have a good one, Tosh. It's nice to have you back.
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 9:29:32 GMT -5
Thousands of gods throughout history, nobody can disprove them and yet monotheists believe they do not exist, i have yet to hear a valid reason why given they place great faith in the premise monotheism is justified because their god cannot be disproved? Illogical thinking to my razor sharp intellect. Live long and prosper. But you said you had evidence... ? Perhaps because the stories we tell ourselves about God are about our own ability to relate to a higher being at the time, and thus why they evolve as we do? ... You havent suggested that, say, the King James Bible isn't the literal translation of the word of God... you suggested that a god of any kind does not exist and there is NO reason why someone should believe in a God... totally different thing. Critical thinking is the ability to objectively assess and evaluate... do you consider yourself objective in this matter? I said i had evidence that refutes God, God's properties and actions are described in the Bible, i also have evidence the translation is full of errors and additions. I never suggested they were the same,please refrain from inventing my position,it insults my critical thinking soul. Critical thinkers created an objective method of establishing what exists( reason and evidence), i employ this method. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 9:31:32 GMT -5
So your idea of critical thought is, 'toshmanta says so, so it must be true'? Nope, that is your idea not mine, do you often invent the positions of others, hardly critical thinking in my expert opinion. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 9:33:31 GMT -5
One minute of critical thought is all that is required to dismiss belief, can i put you down as a convert? Sorry for the delay in reply. I was on Amazon ordering you a strop.
In answer to your question...I think I'll go on as I am for now. If I'm wrong...I'm wrong. If you're wrong...you are toast!
Have a good one, Tosh. It's nice to have you back.
My delivery address is c/o White Ivory Tower. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 9:37:19 GMT -5
Where did I invent your position? I specifically said you WERE NOT saying that a specific religious text was wrong... you were stating there is no god and no reason for anyone to believe in a god.... how is that an invention? Its exactly what you said....
Yet you offer no evidence. You offer only your statement of having evidence, and then somehow expect someone to change their opinion based on, i guess, yours? What exactly are you expecting people to change their beliefs on? Since your opinion is all you offered?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 29, 2016 9:47:37 GMT -5
Going forth and multiplying was meant when there were fewer people on earth. We no longer have that issue.
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 10:52:50 GMT -5
Going forth and multiplying was meant when there were fewer people on earth. We no longer have that issue. I cannot find the verse where God placed a limit on our multiplying, perhaps you can help me out. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 11:38:54 GMT -5
Where did I invent your position? I specifically said you WERE NOT saying that a specific religious text was wrong... you were stating there is no god and no reason for anyone to believe in a god.... how is that an invention? Its exactly what you said.... Yet you offer no evidence. You offer only your statement of having evidence, and then somehow expect someone to change their opinion based on, i guess, yours? What exactly are you expecting people to change their beliefs on? Since your opinion is all you offered? "you suggested that a god of any kind does not exist and there is NO reason why someone should believe in a God... totally different thing." I was suggesting monotheists do not believe in other gods despite being unable to disprove them, and yet they use the same inability to disprove their God as part of their defense. I am suggesting the same reasons they give for believing in one god apply to all gods, there is no difference. I did not suggest there was no reason for any god to exist, it depends on the properties and actions attributed to the god, i may not accept Deism but i do accept the reasoning behind it. You never asked me to provide the evidence that refutes God's existence, you only had to ask. Evolution. Innocent suffering. History of supernatural belief. No external influence on the Natural Laws. A universe in most part deadly to all life forms. |
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 29, 2016 14:48:26 GMT -5
Going forth and multiplying was meant when there were fewer people on earth. We no longer have that issue. I cannot find the verse where God placed a limit on our multiplying, perhaps you can help me out. Thanks but no thanks. |
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Nov 29, 2016 17:44:12 GMT -5
I think you'll find it was the Christian Church who put an end to infanticide..... in the UK at least God works in mysterious ways.  In some far flung corners of the globe.....They still do it....ie Zika virus didn't originate in Brazil...so where are all the effected babies on the African continent? |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 20:00:23 GMT -5
I cannot find the verse where God placed a limit on our multiplying, perhaps you can help me out. Thanks but no thanks. So you just know the mind of God? Impressive. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 20:10:07 GMT -5
Now i have provided the reasons and evidence for not believing in God, there is no evidence to support a belief in God, this leaves us with the rumoured many many reasons to believe in God. Still waiting, hope they are valid and objective, my critical thinking eye is watching or am i supposed to just take someone's word they exist?  Maybe the reasons are as invisible and mysterious as God....duh!! |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 20:18:29 GMT -5
So you just know the mind of God? Impressive. No but my daddy always said only a fool argues with another one. Now now my friend, no need for personal insults, i wasn't the fool pretending to know what God really meant, i simply highlighted your mistake. 1-0. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 20:26:46 GMT -5
Maybe. The nice thing is that it doesn't matter what you believe or if you even do. To anyone but you. That's free will. Mocking others makes you look nsecure in your own beliefs. People that are comfortable with their own thing don't need to shit on others for theirs. Free will doesn't actually exist, it is a necessary delusion. Proving people wrong is not mocking nor shitting on others but you are right about one thing, it brings my huge ego much comfort. Do i seem insecure in my beliefs to you or are you just pretending to know what i think, you may have a syndrome i sense a pattern developing. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 29, 2016 20:44:10 GMT -5
Whatever. You haven't changed a bit. You're still a sad little man. I know this will get removed but you are even more pathetic than I remember. I'm so sorry for you. I hope you aren't this way in real life just being an anonymous internet troll. I think you are taking being proved wrong badly, maybe critical thinking is just not your strong point. A troll resorts to personal insults, not nice to call me names and then accuse me of trolling, you seem very easily confused. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 29, 2016 21:15:38 GMT -5
Okay, folks, that's it. If you cannot discuss this matter without insulting one another, declaring one another's beliefs to be wrong because you don't believe the same, and otherwise turning this discourse into a flaming contest, this thread will be shut down. Please re-read the rules covering this particular forum - Religious Discussion.
mmhmm, Administrator who hates to have to lock threads - it ain't a kindergarten sandbox in here!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 29, 2016 21:34:18 GMT -5
Sorry. I removed my posts but they were quoted. I don't know what Moon was thinking. Don't we have enough already?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 29, 2016 21:37:18 GMT -5
My own fault for feeding it.
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 30, 2016 10:47:18 GMT -5
Back on topic. Religion provides comfort but God seems to cause a great deal of discomfort to the innocent who suffer and die by God created natural phenomena. Is it really necessary to have bad genetic mutation,infertility,misscarriage,malaria carrying mosquitoes or earthquakes,hurricanes.Tornadoes, Volcanoes not to mention a whole range of carnivores that want to eat us.Hardly surprising the most common reason for preachers to leave the faith is the question of suffering. In my opinion if an intelligence did create the universe it is either unable or unwilling to prevent innocent suffering.
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uncle23
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Post by uncle23 on Nov 30, 2016 11:00:05 GMT -5
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it." ============================================================= Whether one believes in creationism or guided evolution the plain fact is many healthy men and women under 30 have fertility problems, now if an intelligence designed us and ordered us to go forth and multiply why make conception impossible for many? I do not want to hear this response " God works in mysterious ways "  ... only GOD knows why.... and He has not revealed it to me....do you know ? |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 30, 2016 16:11:09 GMT -5
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it." ============================================================= Whether one believes in creationism or guided evolution the plain fact is many healthy men and women under 30 have fertility problems, now if an intelligence designed us and ordered us to go forth and multiply why make conception impossible for many? I do not want to hear this response " God works in mysterious ways " ... only GOD knows why....lol and He has not revealed it to me....do you know ? I am certain whatever his reasoning it cannot justify the murder of millions of innocent lives. Evil was once described as the absence of compassion. |
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uncle23
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Post by uncle23 on Nov 30, 2016 18:55:25 GMT -5
... only GOD knows why....lol and He has not revealed it to me....do you know ? I am certain whatever his reasoning it cannot justify the murder of millions of innocent lives. Evil was once described as the absence of compassion. my reasoning is that to teach us compassion....and that the suffering of millions means there is an afterlife where the enjoyment of non-suffering is proportional to previous degree of suffering...to enjoy the sweetest of all sweets one must taste the bitterest of bitters... its all about love and GOD loves everybody including atheist....when the time comes Tosh will see and all is well because GOD is love... |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 30, 2016 21:29:38 GMT -5
I am certain whatever his reasoning it cannot justify the murder of millions of innocent lives. Evil was once described as the absence of compassion. my reasoning is that to teach us compassion....and that the suffering of millions means there is an afterlife where the enjoyment of non-suffering is proportional to previous degree of suffering...to enjoy the sweetest of all sweets one must taste the bitterest of bitters... its all about love and GOD loves everybody including atheist....when the time comes Tosh will see and all is well because GOD is love... Oh i think if i really did love everybody i would come up with a way to teach compassion that did not involve untold innocent suffering, maybe reward the loving and the compassionate with the afterlife's sweetest of sweet. As it stands if you don't suffer on earth you will suffer proportionally in the afterlife, is this the god of love or suffering. Justifying mass murder for any reason is teaching Machiavellian moral relativism, the end justifies the means, now i know where Stalin and Hitler got their ideas from. Murder teaches compassion is an oxymoron, i judge people by their actions not their words, go tell the mother of a dead innocent baby that god is love and he is teaching compassion Feck me, theology is just stone age ethics c/w voodoo. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Nov 30, 2016 21:33:52 GMT -5
So god kills millions to teach us compassion, and we need compassion to stop us killing millions?
mmmm, the way i see it, millions get it in the neck one way or another.
Is God poor at math?
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uncle23
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Post by uncle23 on Nov 30, 2016 22:40:21 GMT -5
like i said that is my reasoning....i do not know GOD'S reasoning...in due time we will see....
otherwise existence is for no reason....the hard question is always WHY..
i did not think my reasoning was theology nor stone age ethics..
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Dec 1, 2016 6:56:09 GMT -5
like i said that is my reasoning....i do not know GOD'S reasoning...in due time we will see.... otherwise existence is for no reason....the hard question is always WHY.. i did not think my reasoning was theology nor stone age ethics.. I think suffering in of itself results in compassion and there is plenty of man made suffering to teach us compassion. Whereas God causing suffering results in the justification of murder, man made suffering is not in short supply why god decides to increase our suffering seems like OVERKILL. "otherwise existence is for no reason....the hard question is always WHY.. " ============================================== "The reason we exist " may indeed be a hard question for you but you must appreciate others do not have any problem in answering "WHY" and do not come to your rather negative conclusion, there are other reasons to exist without involving god or the afterlife. Theology is an attempt to explain the inconsistencies between god's nature and nature,the outcome is an immoral philosophy concerning the nature of our existence. |
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Dec 1, 2016 11:58:53 GMT -5
The cold reality is God says go forth and multiply but i will stop some of you and some of the lucky ones will have to sacrifice their babies to me so i can teach compassion.
p.s. You will be rewarded when you are dead.
mmmm, not sure i agree with God's morality or ethics.
A very very strange kind of love.
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uncle23
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Post by uncle23 on Dec 1, 2016 12:14:00 GMT -5
like i said that is my reasoning....i do not know GOD'S reasoning...in due time we will see.... otherwise existence is for no reason....the hard question is always WHY.. i did not think my reasoning was theology nor stone age ethics.. I think suffering in of itself results in compassion and there is plenty of man made suffering to teach us compassion. Whereas God causing suffering results in the justification of murder, man made suffering is not in short supply why god decides to increase our suffering seems like OVERKILL. "otherwise existence is for no reason....the hard question is always WHY.. " ============================================== "The reason we exist " may indeed be a hard question for you but you must appreciate others do not have any problem in answering "WHY" and do not come to your rather negative conclusion, there are other reasons to exist without involving god or the afterlife. Theology is an attempt to explain the inconsistencies between god's nature and nature,the outcome is an immoral philosophy concerning the nature of our existence. Sorry I did not know others do not have any problem in answering "why"...care to share ? I do not know the nature of God...I do not know any inconsistency between Him and His creation...I know you don't share my view and I'm ok with it.... |
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