Go Forth and Multiply?????????????

[toshmanta]

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."
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Whether one believes in creationism or guided evolution the plain fact is many healthy men and women under 30 have fertility problems, now if an intelligence designed us and ordered us to go forth and multiply why make conception impossible for many?

I do not want to hear this response " God works in mysterious ways "

[cronewitch]

He/she hates some of us and doesn't allow us to have children. A vengeful God, learn to fear him/her. Some of us simply weren't taught to fear Gods so we are punished.

[Deleted]

Why would he confer a soul through a process that fails naturally 50%+ of the time? None of it makes sense to me...

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't think you get to ask a question and tell us how we may answer.    

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 13:34:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think you get to ask a question and tell us how we may answer.    

Only God can stop me and he is too busy making millions of innocents suffer and die. [img]http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angel.gif[/img]

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 28, 2016 15:14:48 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 28, 2016 13:34:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think you get to ask a question and tell us how we may answer.    

Only God can stop me and he is too busy making millions of innocents suffer and die.

God is never too busy for you, Tosh.

I do have an answer to your question that you may find acceptable, if you are interested. Of course, it will simply be my opinion.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 15:32:30 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 28, 2016 15:14:48 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Only God can stop me and he is too busy making millions of innocents suffer and die.

God is never too busy for you, Tosh.

I do have an answer to your question that you may find acceptable, if you are interested. Of course, it will simply be my opinion.

As long as your opinion is not mysterious i am interested.

[Tennesseer]

Whether or not the Bible is fact, I think humanity has done a pretty good job of going forth and multiplying.  (I hope the numbers align up).


How Many People Have Ever Lived On Earth? 108 Billion

Year            Population     Births per 1,000      Births Between Benchmarks

50,000 B.C.              2                 -                                       -

8000 B.C.   5,000,000             80                                1,137,789,769

1 A.D.     300,000,000            80                              46,025,332,354

1200       450,000,000             60                              26,591,343,000

1650       500,000,000             60                              12,782,002,453

1750       795,000,000             50                                3,171,931,513

1850    1,265,000,000             40                                4,046,240,009

1900    1,656,000,000             40                                2,900,237,856

1950    2,516,000,000             31-38                           3,390,198,215

1995    5,760,000,000             31                                5,427,305,000

2011    6,987,000,000             23                                2,130,327,622





NUMBER WHO HAVE EVER BEEN BORN   107,602,707,791

World population in mid-2011                                6,987,000,000

Percent of those ever born who are living in 2011                   6.5



How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?

[Waffle]

The Earth's already full.

Actually, toshmanta, I am wondering if you are trying to find a reason to believe in God, or if you are trying to convince those of us to believe in God to stop?    I don't expect you to be successful in either case.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 15:42:13 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Whether or not the Bible is fact, I think humanity has done a pretty good job of going forth and multiplying.  (I hope the numbers align up).


How Many People Have Ever Lived On Earth? 108 Billion

Year            Population     Births per 1,000      Births Between Benchmarks

50,000 B.C.              2                 -                                       -

8000 B.C.   5,000,000             80                                1,137,789,769

1 A.D.     300,000,000            80                              46,025,332,354

1200       450,000,000             60                              26,591,343,000

1650       500,000,000             60                              12,782,002,453

1750       795,000,000             50                                3,171,931,513

1850    1,265,000,000             40                                4,046,240,009

1900    1,656,000,000             40                                2,900,237,856

1950    2,516,000,000             31-38                           3,390,198,215

1995    5,760,000,000             31                                5,427,305,000

2011    6,987,000,000             23                                2,130,327,622





NUMBER WHO HAVE EVER BEEN BORN   107,602,707,791

World population in mid-2011                                6,987,000,000

Percent of those ever born who are living in 2011                   6.5



How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?

God never mentioned anything about controlling our population that is why he created water on Mars, all is going to plan

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 15:42:58 GMT -5 Waffle said:

The Earth's already full.

Actually, toshmanta , I am wondering if you are trying to find a reason to believe in God, or if you are trying to convince those of us to believe in God to stop?    I don't expect you to be successful in either case.

Definitely the latter, and i know will be successful, i have blind faith.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 28, 2016 15:38:58 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 28, 2016 15:32:30 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

God is never too busy for you, Tosh.

I do have an answer to your question that you may find acceptable, if you are interested. Of course, it will simply be my opinion.

As long as your opinion is not mysterious i am interested.

I'm not smart enough to be mysterious.

 My answer is quite simple. If you study this issue, you will find conflicting opinions of whether or not infertility is more prevalent now than it used to be....say 100 years ago.  I find I agree that it is.

A fairly recent study of British men found that they sperm counts were rapidly decreasing - some by 60% or more. The study owes this to environmental chemicals.  Obviously, environmental chemicals are everywhere - not just Great Britan - so I can assume this would be the case in a lot of developed countries.

In addition, women are waiting until they are older to have children. It's a well-known fact that a woman's fertility decreases substantially after age 35.

Add those factors to the fairly recent diseases/infections that can play havoc with one's fertility and I come to the conclusion that we are doing this to ourselves - God isn't doing this to us.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 15:52:58 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 28, 2016 15:38:58 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

As long as your opinion is not mysterious i am interested.

I'm not smart enough to be mysterious.

 My answer is quite simple. If you study this issue, you will find conflicting opinions of whether or not infertility is more prevalent now than it used to be....say 100 years ago.  I find I agree that it is.

A fairly recent study of British men found that they sperm counts were rapidly decreasing - some by 60% or more. The study owes this to environmental chemicals.

In addition, women are waiting until they are older to have children. It's a well-known fact that a woman's fertility decreases substantially after age 35.

Add those factors to the fairly recent diseases/infections that can play havoc with one's fertility and I come to the conclusion that we are doing this to ourselves - God isn't doing this to us.

Interesting points, however i did mention infertility in the under 30s and infertility was a big enough  problem for the Egyptians to mention long before chemicals, www.bustle.com/articles/76161-how-infertility-was-talked-about-throughout-history-because-to-fight-a-taboo-you-need-to.
I think the answer is a lot more simple, not all genetic mutations are good (Down Syndrome, Miscarriage) and infertility is but one of the bad ones. Since god seemingly designed evolution it seems he likes to make some suffer which is a bit odd for an all loving god.
www.nsgc.org/p/bl/et/blogaid=266

[Green Eyed Lady]

Ok.  I admit to some confusion as to why you started the thread and asked the question if you think you already have the answer, but thanks for listening!  

RE: Your Down's Syndrome comment....I'd be anxious to know when this syndrome first started showing up. Now you've got me doing research when I'm still in a food coma. I guess that's a good thing!

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 16:23:47 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Ok.  I admit to some confusion as to why you started the thread and asked the question if you think you already have the answer, but thanks for listening!  

RE: Your Down's Syndrome comment....I'd be anxious to know when this syndrome first started showing up. Now you've got me doing research when I'm still in a food coma. I guess that's a good thing!

From memory Down Syndrome may be connected To Chromosome 2, chimps have one extra pair of Chromosomes, in humans one pair fused with another(chromosome 2), it may be a throw back to our primate genetic make up.

Prior to modern medicine up to one third of natural births ended in the death of mother, baby or both, primarily because our large human brains needed a large head and the original chimp female pelvis could not widen any further without affecting running/walking mobility, it is called an evolutionary trade off.

[swamp]

Nov 28, 2016 16:23:47 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Ok.  I admit to some confusion as to why you started the thread and asked the question if you think you already have the answer, but thanks for listening!  

RE: Your Down's Syndrome comment....I'd be anxious to know when this syndrome first started showing up. Now you've got me doing research when I'm still in a food coma. I guess that's a good thing!

It's always been around.  Infanticide was much more common. We try to save every baby now. That didn't used to be the practice.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 16:45:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 28, 2016 16:23:47 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Ok.  I admit to some confusion as to why you started the thread and asked the question if you think you already have the answer, but thanks for listening!  

RE: Your Down's Syndrome comment....I'd be anxious to know when this syndrome first started showing up. Now you've got me doing research when I'm still in a food coma. I guess that's a good thing!

It's always been around.  Infanticide was much more common. We try to save every baby now. That didn't used to be the practice.

First born female infanticide began in our hunter-gatherer past, it was a survival necessity, we needed to balance our population to meet the needs of our environment, we needed men more to hunt and defend, the shortage of women was a trade off that caused most conflict. Once farming began we continued the cultural practice for similar reasons. Pure moral relativism.

A tribute of sorts to human ingenuity, Thou Shalt Not Kill was avoided by leaving the baby outside for nature to kill not us.

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2016 16:57:40 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 28, 2016 16:45:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

It's always been around.  Infanticide was much more common. We try to save every baby now. That didn't used to be the practice.

First born female infanticide began in our hunter-gatherer past, it was a survival necessity, we needed to balance our population to meet the needs of our environment, we needed men more to hunt and defend, the shortage of women was a trade off that caused most conflict. Once farming began we continued the cultural practice for similar reasons. Pure moral relativism.

A tribute of sorts to human ingenuity, Thou Shalt Not Kill was avoided by leaving the baby outside for nature to kill not us.

How very clever of our ancestors. No-choice advocates might take notice that throughout almost all of human history, infanticide rates were as high, if not higher than current day abortion rates.

Just something to ponder after tea and biscuits.

[Shooby]

Nov 28, 2016 13:34:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think you get to ask a question and tell us how we may answer.    

So why ask a question if you are going to rule out how others answer?  

[mmhmm]

Nov 28, 2016 16:23:47 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Ok.  I admit to some confusion as to why you started the thread and asked the question if you think you already have the answer, but thanks for listening!  

RE: Your Down's Syndrome comment....I'd be anxious to know when this syndrome first started showing up. Now you've got me doing research when I'm still in a food coma. I guess that's a good thing!

There has been evidence of Down Syndrome in accounts and drawings from before the birth of Christ. The syndrome was named in the mid-to-late 1800s. Because Down Syndrome (trisomy 21) is also often associated with cardiac anomalies, many of these children just didn't live beyond infancy.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 18:03:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Nov 28, 2016 13:34:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think you get to ask a question and tell us how we may answer.    

So why ask a question if you are going to rule out how others answer?  

Because God works in mysterious ways is not an answer, in effect it means the contradiction is beyond explanation, and " don't know" answers nothing.

I find it disingenuous for some to use logic to support god but dismiss logic when it refutes god.

[toshmanta]

Critical thinking is not rocket science, the question of god's existence can be summed up like this.

Is there any reason to believe god exists...NO.

Is there any evidence god exists ...NO.

Is there any reason to believe god doesn't not exist...YES, more than one.

Is there any evidence that refutes god exists YES.

It is a no brainer, come and join me in my atheist reality of naturalism, you know it makes sense.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 28, 2016 18:37:20 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Critical thinking is not rocket science, the question of god's existence can be summed up like this.

Is there any reason to believe god exists...NO.

Is there any evidence god exists ...NO.

Is there any reason to believe god doesn't not exist...YES, more than one.

Is there any evidence that refutes god exists YES.

It is a no brainer, come and join me in my atheist reality of naturalism, you know it makes sense.

Interesting. So...you've been asked on a couple of occasions why you ask these questions if you already know the answers. You have not answered.   You certainly don't owe me or anyone an explanation, but it is a good question.

PS:  There are lots of ways you can't answer this question. 

[Deleted]

I'm not sure I'd call that critical thinking per se? 

The fact is there are many many many reasons to believe in god, they vary considerably and I'm sure they are not your reasons, but to equate your lack of reasons for belief, as a general lack of reason for anyone to believe, is not a critical assessment that I can see? 

Now evidence, correct, there is no evidence, such is a tenet of faith. 

Did you mean the doublenegative here? 

Im not sure what evidence you are citing here? I know of no evidence that disproves a god definitively? 

Faith and belief are extremely 'brainer' topics to my way of thinking... they should be given thought and assessment. I don't find 'duh' to be any more a rigorous defense of atheism than any other religious position... 

[Shooby]

  I multiplied.   So i did my duty.  

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 18:55:37 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 28, 2016 18:37:20 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Critical thinking is not rocket science, the question of god's existence can be summed up like this.

Is there any reason to believe god exists...NO.

Is there any evidence god exists ...NO.

Is there any reason to believe god doesn't not exist...YES, more than one.

Is there any evidence that refutes god exists YES.

It is a no brainer, come and join me in my atheist reality of naturalism, you know it makes sense.

Interesting. So...you've been asked on a couple of occasions why you ask these questions if you already know the answers. You have not answered.   You certainly don't owe me or anyone an explanation, but it is a good question.

PS:  There are lots of ways you can't answer this question. 

I am not so sure it is a good question but i will answer it out of politeness, i ask questions to make people think about their belief in god, consider me a teacher or preacher of sorts.

[toshmanta]

Nov 28, 2016 20:28:37 GMT -5 oped said:

I'm not sure I'd call that critical thinking per se? 

The fact is there are many many many reasons to believe in god, they vary considerably and I'm sure they are not your reasons, but to equate your lack of reasons for belief, as a general lack of reason for anyone to believe, is not a critical assessment that I can see? 

Now evidence, correct, there is no evidence, such is a tenet of faith. 

Did you mean the doublenegative here? 

Im not sure what evidence you are citing here? I know of no evidence that disproves a god definitively? 

Faith and belief are extremely 'brainer' topics to my way of thinking... they should be given thought and assessment. I don't find 'duh' to be any more a rigorous defense of atheism than any other religious position... 

Critical thinking is built on reason and evidence, my employment of both is precise and accurate.
Until you provide the many many reasons why some believe god exists i cannot confirm nor deny their validity, i have yet to hear ONE valid reason for theism so i wait with baited breath.

Apologise for the erroneous double negative.

I did not say the evidence disproves god exists i said it refutes god's existence, we cannot disprove an infinite number of things existing but we still don't believe they exist, we use critical thinking to determine whether something exists or not.
Faith is to believe without evidence, nothing brainy about it, if i believed i had an undetectable dragon in my garage i would not be nominated for a Nobel Prize.
Since you have not provided any reason nor evidence to believe in god except "duh lite" my rigorous defense of atheism remains untouched by your response.

[toshmanta]

Thousands of gods throughout history, nobody can disprove them and yet monotheists believe they do not exist, i have yet to hear a valid reason why given they place great faith in the premise monotheism is justified because their god cannot be disproved?

Illogical thinking to my razor sharp intellect.

Live long and prosper.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 29, 2016 7:02:17 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 28, 2016 18:55:37 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Interesting. So...you've been asked on a couple of occasions why you ask these questions if you already know the answers. You have not answered.   You certainly don't owe me or anyone an explanation, but it is a good question.

PS:  There are lots of ways you can't answer this question. 

I am not so sure it is a good question but i will answer it out of politeness, i ask questions to make people think about their belief in god, consider me a teacher or preacher of sorts.

Thank you for your answer and thank God for you! Up until this moment, I had never put one minute of thought into my beliefs!

[Deleted]

Nov 29, 2016 8:51:38 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Thousands of gods throughout history, nobody can disprove them and yet monotheists believe they do not exist, i have yet to hear a valid reason why given they place great faith in the premise monotheism is justified because their god cannot be disproved?

Illogical thinking to my razor sharp intellect.

Live long and prosper.

But you said you had evidence... ?

Perhaps because the stories we tell ourselves about God are about our own ability to relate to a higher being at the time, and thus why they evolve as we do? ... You havent suggested that, say, the King James Bible isn't the literal translation of the word of God... you suggested that a god of any kind does not exist and there is NO reason why someone should believe in a God... totally different thing. 

Critical thinking is the ability to objectively assess and evaluate... do you consider yourself objective in this matter?