hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 1, 2016 13:56:53 GMT -5
I find this comment hysterical because I have yet to see you say one thing negative about your country. All you ever post is why America sucks and how we should do it the Canadian way. Because that's not arrogant at all No, not the Canadian way. It's the way of all other first world countries which have a much better Quality of Life than you do. This is like saying the kids in the house are more happy than the adults because all they do is hang out and have fun all day...so the adults should probably just quit their jobs so that they'll be more happy. The kids are happier, so the adults should model themselves after them. But someone has to get up and work...that's the US. You're welcome that because of the work of the US you can have more time just hanging out playing.
Smaller, weaker countries will always have higher QOL rankings...they're the kids. They can hide behind the big powerful countries and spend their money on slide whistles and sparklers.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Dec 1, 2016 14:02:08 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with your assessment, Hoops, but I do agree that it is hard to compare the whole US to entire countries the size of one of our states. What works in a smaller population may not work in a larger one.
Yet, China offers 14 weeks of PAID maternity leave. So there's that. And yes, I know they limit childbearing so that a woman should only have to do that once or maybe twice in her lifetime.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 1, 2016 14:09:17 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with your assessment, Hoops, but I do agree that it is hard to compare the whole US to entire countries the size of one of our states. What works in a smaller population may not work in a larger one.
Yet, China offers 14 weeks of PAID maternity leave. So there's that. And yes, I know they limit childbearing so that a woman should only have to do that once or maybe twice in her lifetime. Great example, so China offers 14 weeks of paid maternity leave...how high is their QOL score?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 1, 2016 14:15:14 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with your assessment, Hoops, but I do agree that it is hard to compare the whole US to entire countries the size of one of our states. What works in a smaller population may not work in a larger one.
Yet, China offers 14 weeks of PAID maternity leave. So there's that. And yes, I know they limit childbearing so that a woman should only have to do that once or maybe twice in her lifetime. Great example, so China offers 14 weeks of paid maternity leave...how high is their QOL score? If their QOL sucks so much, why are we pushing our kids to compete with them?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 1, 2016 14:20:51 GMT -5
I don't know why we bother having this conversation anymore. Americans are just plain self-centered and short sighted. "We need to help the poor in our own country before we help others.... but on the other hand I don't want to pay for a single thing that doesn't directly benefit me. Those poor kids who are on free lunches - that's just sad.... But I don't want my tax money feeding them."
We are the perfect blend of quasi-good intentions and miserly attitude.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 1, 2016 14:21:37 GMT -5
Great example, so China offers 14 weeks of paid maternity leave...how high is their QOL score? If their QOL sucks so much, why are we pushing our kids to compete with them? I'm not sure who is pushing our kids to compete with them actually, but if so it's probably because that's what big powerful countries care about. They care about power, influence, etc...not what some QOL index says.
I'm not even sure they measure China, they probably wouldn't be in the top 200 of countries...which is to say that clearly maternity leave is not exactly a great indicator of overall quality of life indexes.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 1, 2016 14:36:02 GMT -5
But what is being discussed in this thread is much longer than the recovery time for a delivery. With my oldest, I was up and walking fine in a week. And that was with a lot of tearing (she was a HUGE baby!). I had a hysterectomy and was back to work in less than two weeks. It doesn't take 3 months, 6 months or a year to recover from birth. Once again, you've neglected that everybody is different and experiences and recovers from pregnancy and birth differently. You are entitled to your opinion. But given that doctor's will clear women to return to work in 4-6 weeks (I've seen both, never longer for a vaginal birth) tells me that I'm not out of line what I'm saying. You just don't like my opinion on pregnancy in the work place
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 1, 2016 15:05:43 GMT -5
Correlation does not equal causation. Never said it did. But laws that deal with employment usually have some effect on employment, not merely correlation. But, hey, if you have anything that points to other reasons why other countries are so much better at those things then we are or prove is "just correlation", post away. The wording "other countries are so much better at those things than we are" implies that active management by government is the cause of the outcome. There are plenty of times when other countries have a better outcome due to factors that have nothing to do with active management - homogenous cultural beliefs, more homogeneous population, cultural tendencies that promote a favorable outcome, fewer people versus greater natural resources, for example. Employment, maternity leave, healthcare, taxation and government control are all complicated topics and sometimes what works well for one country wouldn't work for another for a variety of reasons. It's way too simplistic to assume that simply because Country A has a law that does X, Y, Z that if Country B enacted that law the outcome would be the same.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 1, 2016 15:16:58 GMT -5
Once again, you've neglected that everybody is different and experiences and recovers from pregnancy and birth differently. You are entitled to your opinion. But given that doctor's will clear women to return to work in 4-6 weeks (I've seen both, never longer for a vaginal birth) tells me that I'm not out of line what I'm saying. You just don't like my opinion on pregnancy in the work place Doctors are under pressure to release women back to the workplace. Forms, Insurance, and culture place a premium on workplaces not being inconvenienced by reproduction or by the health of their employees at all. My physician gave 8 weeks for a vaginal birth and 10 for a C section. Just because you bounced back from pregnancy in week doesn't mean everyone does. You don't state it as an opinion, you say women should be able to return to work right away because YOU did. I can run a half marathon in under 2 hours, but that doesn't mean everyone can; nor should I expect them to. Medicine should apply to people as they NEED it, not as insurance companies dictate we should. We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat people; not physicians.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 1, 2016 15:25:59 GMT -5
We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat peopleAnd because a fair number of Radiologists would speak up to talk about the number of cancers we're CAUSING with all the additional radiation from the imaging.... One of my good friends is a surgical nurse married to a Harvard educated radiologist. He doesn't even want her to get annual mammograms because he believes the additional radiation is more of a risk that outweighs the benefit from the possibility of detecting cancer that way.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 1, 2016 15:29:57 GMT -5
You are entitled to your opinion. But given that doctor's will clear women to return to work in 4-6 weeks (I've seen both, never longer for a vaginal birth) tells me that I'm not out of line what I'm saying. You just don't like my opinion on pregnancy in the work place Doctors are under pressure to release women back to the workplace. Forms, Insurance, and culture place a premium on workplaces not being inconvenienced by reproduction or by the health of their employees at all. My physician gave 8 weeks for a vaginal birth and 10 for a C section. Just because you bounced back from pregnancy in week doesn't mean everyone does. You don't state it as an opinion, you say women should be able to return to work right away because YOU did. I can run a half marathon in under 2 hours, but that doesn't mean everyone can; nor should I expect them to. Medicine should apply to people as they NEED it, not as insurance companies dictate we should. We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat people; not physicians. Reply #185 posted 6 hours ago
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. Post by Miss Tequila on 6 hours ago
I am not saying that a vaginal birth should recover in less than two weeks. But I also know that it doesn't take a year for your body to heal. Women are cleared anywhere from 4-6 weeks. Anything beyond that is not due to the medical aspect of giving birth but because a woman wants to be home with her baby. And I get that. I just don't think the employer or taxpayers should have to foot the bill.
That is what I said...of course there are outliers
abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartDiseaseTreatment/story?id=4227991
Based on this article, virtually everyone is ready to go back to work by 6 weeks after open-heart surgery. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that open heart surgery is no cake-walk..yet somehow a woman can't heal in the same amount of time? Again, I'm not talking about wanting to be home with her baby. That is understandable. But claiming it is because she takes so long to heal is just ludicrous.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 1, 2016 15:45:26 GMT -5
We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat peopleAnd because a fair number of Radiologists would speak up to talk about the number of cancers we're CAUSING with all the additional radiation from the imaging.... One of my good friends is a surgical nurse married to a Harvard educated radiologist. He doesn't even want her to get annual mammograms because he believes the additional radiation is more of a risk that outweighs the benefit from the possibility of detecting cancer that way. There are tons of non-ionizing radiation options for diagnosis, including ultrasound and MRI. They are more expensive, however, than an x-ray. Another good example is PSA tests and pap smears, coloscopies, etc. They only reason we really don't do them every year is because of costs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 16:17:07 GMT -5
But while extended paid leave for new parents is a hot trend for major tech giants, most people don't work in these companies or at the executive level, and currently only about 12% of American companies offer paid maternity or paternity leave, according to the Society for Human Resource Management. That's down from 17% in 2010. Under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) of 1993, qualifying American parents are guaranteed 12 weeks of family leave to care for a new child. While the law requires companies with 50 or more employees to provide new parents with 12 weeks of leave, it doesn't require this leave to be paid. In fact, the US is one of just two countries in the world that doesn't ensure any paid time off for new moms, according to a report from the International Labor Organization. The other: Papua New Guinea.
This policy is also restricted to full-time employees who have been with the company for more than a year, which, all told, applies to about 60% of workers in the US. source~ The bolded surprised me, not in a good way.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Dec 1, 2016 16:30:28 GMT -5
While you make an interesting point, at least my experience is different than your theory. Over my 40+ years in the workforce, I've dealt with more than a dozen pregnancies. The number of extended absences due to old age diseases? None.While I don't consider my experience to be statistically valid. I do suspect that it might indicate the relative frequency of extended absences from work due to various causes. I guess you don't work here Most people that have FMLA approved time off are not pregnant. They are generally 40+ and dealing with chronic health issues. So they take the full 12 weeks EVERY YEAR. I've been here 11 years and even with my vacation time and 3 maternity leaves included I've not been out as much as one of the senior (rank, not age) members on my team. There was even a time period where one department had to crack down because people figured out a certain dr in town would fill out the paperwork for $200 cash, basically guaranteeing 12 weeks off work and there was nothing the employer could legally do about it. There are always those that ruin it for everyone else. It sounds like your experience was as unusual as mine. But on the other end of the spectrum. I do wonder, though, how much of your experience was related to people gaming the system with the aid of an unethical doctor?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 1, 2016 16:51:00 GMT -5
Doctors are under pressure to release women back to the workplace. Forms, Insurance, and culture place a premium on workplaces not being inconvenienced by reproduction or by the health of their employees at all. My physician gave 8 weeks for a vaginal birth and 10 for a C section. Just because you bounced back from pregnancy in week doesn't mean everyone does. You don't state it as an opinion, you say women should be able to return to work right away because YOU did. I can run a half marathon in under 2 hours, but that doesn't mean everyone can; nor should I expect them to. Medicine should apply to people as they NEED it, not as insurance companies dictate we should. We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat people; not physicians. Reply #185 posted 6 hours ago
Quote like Edit
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. Post by Miss Tequila on 6 hours ago
I am not saying that a vaginal birth should recover in less than two weeks. But I also know that it doesn't take a year for your body to heal. Women are cleared anywhere from 4-6 weeks. Anything beyond that is not due to the medical aspect of giving birth but because a woman wants to be home with her baby. And I get that. I just don't think the employer or taxpayers should have to foot the bill.
That is what I said...of course there are outliers
abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartDiseaseTreatment/story?id=4227991
Based on this article, virtually everyone is ready to go back to work by 6 weeks after open-heart surgery. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that open heart surgery is no cake-walk..yet somehow a woman can't heal in the same amount of time? Again, I'm not talking about wanting to be home with her baby. That is understandable. But claiming it is because she takes so long to heal is just ludicrous.
DH went back to work a little over two weeks after a heart transplant. Everyone is different.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 1, 2016 17:57:35 GMT -5
We could essentially eradicate most cancer if only every person in America could have diagnostic tests performed up the wazoo every year including full body MRIs. It'll never happen because it's too expensive and because insurance companies dictate how we treat peopleAnd because a fair number of Radiologists would speak up to talk about the number of cancers we're CAUSING with all the additional radiation from the imaging.... One of my good friends is a surgical nurse married to a Harvard educated radiologist. He doesn't even want her to get annual mammograms because he believes the additional radiation is more of a risk that outweighs the benefit from the possibility of detecting cancer that way. There's no radiation in an MRI. No radiation in colonoscopies. No radiation in thermal imaging.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 1, 2016 18:19:07 GMT -5
And because a fair number of Radiologists would speak up to talk about the number of cancers we're CAUSING with all the additional radiation from the imaging.... One of my good friends is a surgical nurse married to a Harvard educated radiologist. He doesn't even want her to get annual mammograms because he believes the additional radiation is more of a risk that outweighs the benefit from the possibility of detecting cancer that way. There's no radiation in an MRI. No radiation in colonoscopies. No radiation in thermal imaging. Gotcha.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 1, 2016 18:21:49 GMT -5
Add ultrasounds to that list, as well.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 9:37:51 GMT -5
Add ultrasounds to that list, as well. Whew, because I have to get a lot of them
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 10:44:12 GMT -5
I was also told I couldn't drive for the entire 6 weeks post partum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 10:54:00 GMT -5
Wow. I never was given any driving restrictions. I was driving around town picking up things with DS when he was only a couple days old. He arrived almost a month early, so I wasn't completely prepared. We hadn't even had the shower yet.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 2, 2016 10:59:44 GMT -5
Wow. I never was given any driving restrictions. I was driving around town picking up things with DS when he was only a couple days old. He arrived almost a month early, so I wasn't completely prepared. We hadn't even had the shower yet. Ditto. No driving restrictions and since he was 3 1/2 weeks early, I brought him to his own baby shower.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 11:12:35 GMT -5
Yeah but you all gave birth in the dark ages.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 2, 2016 11:19:51 GMT -5
I didn't have any restrictions. I think I took both kids to Target/grocery store when they were 2 days old.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 11:27:49 GMT -5
I was still in the hospital on day 2. And I had some pretty epic tearing. And my little peanut was in the NICU with some kind of mystery illness. Going out to the store was the last thing on my mind!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 11:30:13 GMT -5
I guess this just illustrates how different we all are when it comes to ob/gyn ideologies and recovery time. We don't need to start yet another pissing contest about this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 11:36:40 GMT -5
He's only 6!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 2, 2016 11:38:58 GMT -5
yeah, but you're in Minnesota - same thing.... <<runs>>
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Dec 2, 2016 11:47:12 GMT -5
I had one, left the hospital..had the second and left the hospital. That is all I remember it was so long ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 11:48:18 GMT -5
Mayo Clinic obstetrician.
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