The End Is Nigh.

[toshmanta]

A recent poll indicates the majority(56%) of under 40's in the UK have no religion and 47% confirmed atheists.
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1657457.ece

It seems it is only a matter of time for theism in the UK and if this trend continues by 2050 Christianity will return to its original form as a cult with a small band of believers.

Belief in the supernatural has held our species back since the dawn of self awareness, and i am grateful my descendants will not have to put up with the same gobbledegook i had to suffer.

46 years ago as a 13 year old i knew snakes did not talk and walking on water was impossible, why it has taken this long for the majority to agree actually baffles me.

There is an old adage, you can fool all of the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

I doubt i will see 2050 so allow me the privilege of celebrating early.

[Shooby]

  Well, the march of Islam is happening in case you haven't been paying attention.  Sooo, it's highly unlikely that atheism is going to take the place of Christianity.  Most likely, westernized Christianity will be overtake by Islam in some countries. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 9:00:20 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, the march of Islam is happening in case you haven't been paying attention.  Sooo, it's highly unlikely that atheism is going to take the place of Christianity.  Most likely, westernized Christianity will be overtake by Islam in some countries. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Hello Shooby Doo, hope you are having a fine Friday and looking forward to a weekend of pagan debauchery.

Islam is hardly going to take the place of atheism in my paradise, if the majority aint buying talking snakes they are hardly going to embrace flying white horses.
Islam overtaking Christianity will happen but the vast majority will be atheists just like little old me me me, now join me in a glass of champagne and stop trying to be a party pooper.

[thyme4change]

England has always had a rocky relationship with religion. As crass as the USA is, our puritanical roots are still evident in so much of our culture. We have a long way to go to upend religion

Shooby is correct that Muslims are growing. As a population, they are younger than Christians, they are having children and raising them in the faith, and they are drawing in non believers. The fact that there are less younger Christians actually gives Muslims a great void in which to plant seeds. If they reach out and offer hope and comfort when nobody else does, they can bring others into the faith.

Moderate and cafeteria religions are great, because you kinda believe what you want, and ignore the rest, and still claim to follow that God. I have seen it done at all levels. Individuals and entire national religions conveniently ignore huge or explain away huge tenants of Christianity to make it more comfortable. Muslims can do the same.

The US has been much more welcoming of different theologies all living under the Christian umbrella than the UK. That flexibility makes being Christian more palpable to young people. The Christian base in the US may use that flexibility to stay strong, whereas the UK doesn't give that much variety. In a take or leave it world, you will have less customers. We have a design your own faith approach that can suit almost anyone who is willing to take a crack at it.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 9:30:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

England has always had a rocky relationship with religion. As crass as the USA is, our puritanical roots are still evident in so much of our culture. We have a long way to go to upend religion

Shooby is correct that Muslims are growing. As a population, they are younger than Christians, they are having children and raising them in the faith, and they are drawing in non believers. The fact that there are less younger Christians actually gives Muslims a great void in which to plant seeds. If they reach out and offer hope and comfort when nobody else does, they can bring others into the faith.

Moderate and cafeteria religions are great, because you kinda believe what you want, and ignore the rest, and still claim to follow that God. I have seen it done at all levels. Individuals and entire national religions conveniently ignore huge or explain away huge tenants of Christianity to make it more comfortable. Muslims can do the same.

The US has been much more welcoming of different theologies all living under the Christian umbrella than the UK. That flexibility makes being Christian more palpable to young people. The Christian base in the US may use that flexibility to stay strong, whereas the UK doesn't give that much variety. In a take or leave it world, you will have less customers. We have a design your own faith approach that can suit almost anyone who is willing to take a crack at it.

America is a real oddball in terms of developed world religiosity, it is off the charts and more akin to the developing world, however here in paradise our young have rejected the panacea of Christianity and there is no reason to suppose they would embrace another flavour of supernatural comfort.
I find it interesting separation of church and state has led to more religion compared to state religion, but i do not think this is the main cause. I think it can be explained by social systems, in Europe, Canada and Australia they have a much stronger social security culture compared to the social Darwinism of the States.I believe it is this lack of security that creates the need for religion as a source of comfort, i find it ironic survival of the fittest encourages religiosity given the most religious reject evolution.

[Shooby]

Nov 25, 2016 9:11:27 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 9:00:20 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, the march of Islam is happening in case you haven't been paying attention.  Sooo, it's highly unlikely that atheism is going to take the place of Christianity.  Most likely, westernized Christianity will be overtake by Islam in some countries. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Hello Shooby Doo, hope you are having a fine Friday and looking forward to a weekend of pagan debauchery.

Islam is hardly going to take the place of atheism in my paradise, if the majority aint buying talking snakes they are hardly going to embrace flying white horses.
Islam overtaking Christianity will happen but the vast majority will be atheists just like little old me me me, now join me in a glass of champagne and stop trying to be a party pooper.

There is no 'vast majority" of atheists. 

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 10:15:43 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Nov 25, 2016 9:11:27 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Hello Shooby Doo, hope you are having a fine Friday and looking forward to a weekend of pagan debauchery.

Islam is hardly going to take the place of atheism in my paradise, if the majority aint buying talking snakes they are hardly going to embrace flying white horses.
Islam overtaking Christianity will happen but the vast majority will be atheists just like little old me me me, now join me in a glass of champagne and stop trying to be a party pooper.

There is no 'vast majority" of atheists. 

A vast majority in the future, that is what the future tense " will be " implies, have you been drinking?

[Spellbound454]

I think a belief in religion is evolutionary.

It gives people hope and makes them emotionally stronger.

Give our violent past. There aren't many nonbelievers on a battlefield.

Also it must have been advantageous for humans to have parameters. Even neanderthals had religion.....although maybe it didn't work out for them.
Those of our ancestors who were reckless and fearless......... are likely to have been killed and ousted from the gene-pool.

[Shooby]

Nov 25, 2016 10:29:33 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 10:15:43 GMT -5 Shooby said:

There is no 'vast majority" of atheists. 

A vast majority in the future, that is what the future tense " will be " implies, have you been drinking?

Oh yeah, "the future".  Sure.  Lots of things are and will happen that will affect The FUTURE.  So, keep dreaming.

[thyme4change]

Nov 25, 2016 9:58:28 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 9:30:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

England has always had a rocky relationship with religion. As crass as the USA is, our puritanical roots are still evident in so much of our culture. We have a long way to go to upend religion

Shooby is correct that Muslims are growing. As a population, they are younger than Christians, they are having children and raising them in the faith, and they are drawing in non believers. The fact that there are less younger Christians actually gives Muslims a great void in which to plant seeds. If they reach out and offer hope and comfort when nobody else does, they can bring others into the faith.

Moderate and cafeteria religions are great, because you kinda believe what you want, and ignore the rest, and still claim to follow that God. I have seen it done at all levels. Individuals and entire national religions conveniently ignore huge or explain away huge tenants of Christianity to make it more comfortable. Muslims can do the same.

The US has been much more welcoming of different theologies all living under the Christian umbrella than the UK. That flexibility makes being Christian more palpable to young people. The Christian base in the US may use that flexibility to stay strong, whereas the UK doesn't give that much variety. In a take or leave it world, you will have less customers. We have a design your own faith approach that can suit almost anyone who is willing to take a crack at it.

America is a real oddball in terms of developed world religiosity, it is off the charts and more akin to the developing world, however here in paradise our young have rejected the panacea of Christianity and there is no reason to suppose they would embrace another flavour of supernatural comfort.
I find it interesting separation of church and state has led to more religion compared to state religion, but i do not think this is the main cause. I think it can be explained by social systems, in Europe, Canada and Australia they have a much stronger social security culture compared to the social Darwinism of the States.I believe it is this lack of security that creates the need for religion as a source of comfort, i find it ironic survival of the fittest encourages religiosity given the most religious reject evolution.

I never really thought about it that way, but you are right. Many will simply state the government should provide no safety net and private charities (often that are faith based) will step in and pick up the slack.

I wonder how turning over a third of our education dollars to faith based primary schools will change the landscape.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 11:54:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Nov 25, 2016 10:29:33 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

A vast majority in the future, that is what the future tense " will be " implies, have you been drinking?

Oh yeah, "the future".  Sure.  Lots of things are and will happen that will affect The FUTURE.  So, keep dreaming.

Lots of things will happen in the future Shooby, unfortunately miracles do not happen so we are left with Science and knowledge, and the affect on the future is not good news to those incapable of adapting to change.

However i am an empathetic soul and i recognise those with the most fundamental beliefs need comfort and security more than most, it is why they feel safe with absolutes. Unfortunately evolution is about adapting to change, and this includes the psychological trait known as our identity or I AM.

I am positive your ego can adapt to knowledge, it is only a negative if you choose to make it so.

Cheers. 

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 10:42:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think a belief in religion is evolutionary.

It gives people hope and makes them emotionally stronger.

Give our violent past. There aren't many nonbelievers on a battlefield.

Also it must have been advantageous for humans to have parameters. Even neanderthals had religion.....although maybe it didn't work out for them.
Those of our ancestors who were reckless and fearless......... are likely to have been killed and ousted from the gene-pool.

Yep, we are less violent because the most violent have been eliminated from our gene pool before they can reproduce, the sociopath with excessive testosterone was the norm for most of our history but now they are in a minority. Testosterone blocks empathy not fear, it just made us more merciless.

Religion justified the slaughter of the innocents, it did not make us slaughter the innocents, that came naturally.

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 9:46:55 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Religion is a bit different here Tosh. It is OURS.

The church that I grew up in is the direct descendant of the Puritan believers of olde. Our Congregation took some measure of pride and satisfaction in that. Our Congregation was very involved in all functions of the church by the very nature of it's organization. Community ties were large and deep. And the ties were as much there by desire as by duty.

I put that in the past tense as I can't speak to the present. But I don't imagine it has changed much. This keeps the church dynamic and vibrant, and part of the social fabric of the larger community.

Another factor is the diversity of beliefs here. I don't speak so much to the "Cafeteria" style preferences that are indeed a part of the religious experience for some, as that there are different houses of worship for people of different ethnicities and backgrounds. While this has certainly provided it's share of animosity over the years (the KKK used to bait Catholics, for instance) I believe it is ultimately a source of strength for us, as we take pride in our own heritage(s), and also in our national religious tolerance. Not to mention "a Rabbi, a Priest and a musician" jokes.

I personally am not religious. I know many, many people who are not religious. Religion is certainly part of our fabric though, and it is not all the fanatical narrow minded "Church Lady" stuff that is commonly dramatized either. Gosh, it would take a lifetime of study to properly broach the subject!

There are a number of factors, and in rural America religion binds communities together, however the rise of atheism even in America suggests it is only a matter of time.

[uncle23]

....

An interesting read....

When the Pew Research Center compared religious and atheist beliefs, there was an interesting parallel among a minority of atheists and non-atheists. No, we are not talking about the flying spaghetti monster, which is a joke. Although the dictionary definition of atheism is based upon a person who believes God does not exist, the 2015 Pew poll found that 14 percent of those who call themselves an American atheist also believe in “God” or a universal spirit. In fact, the number of people who directly call themselves atheists is less than the percentage who do not believe in God or a universal spirit.



Read more at www.inquisitr.com/2539980/atheist-beliefs-in-america-2015-pew-poll-atheism-religion-spiritual-church/#wfSDy3TbC6cKHer5.99


www.inquisitr.com/2539980/atheist-beliefs-in-america-2015-pew-poll-atheism-religion-spiritual-church/

[mmhmm]

Dec 1, 2016 11:16:46 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Dec 1, 2016 9:46:55 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Religion is a bit different here Tosh. It is OURS.

The church that I grew up in is the direct descendant of the Puritan believers of olde. Our Congregation took some measure of pride and satisfaction in that. Our Congregation was very involved in all functions of the church by the very nature of it's organization. Community ties were large and deep. And the ties were as much there by desire as by duty.

I put that in the past tense as I can't speak to the present. But I don't imagine it has changed much. This keeps the church dynamic and vibrant, and part of the social fabric of the larger community.

Another factor is the diversity of beliefs here. I don't speak so much to the "Cafeteria" style preferences that are indeed a part of the religious experience for some, as that there are different houses of worship for people of different ethnicities and backgrounds. While this has certainly provided it's share of animosity over the years (the KKK used to bait Catholics, for instance) I believe it is ultimately a source of strength for us, as we take pride in our own heritage(s), and also in our national religious tolerance. Not to mention "a Rabbi, a Priest and a musician" jokes.

I personally am not religious. I know many, many people who are not religious. Religion is certainly part of our fabric though, and it is not all the fanatical narrow minded "Church Lady" stuff that is commonly dramatized either. Gosh, it would take a lifetime of study to properly broach the subject!

There are a number of factors, and in rural America religion binds communities together, however the rise of atheism even in America suggests it is only a matter of time.

That may be so; however, I see no reason to take it upon myself to speed up the process. A person's personal beliefs are just that - personal. Those of another don't affect me and my beliefs are of no consequence to anyone other than myself. To argue over the insignificant is, to me, folly. I'm not given to wastes of time and energy for no other reason than to further an endless argument. It reminds me too much of a face-off between the kid with the pail and the kid with the shovel who both want to run the sandbox.

If this is truly your wish, by all means continue but make sure the rules of this particular forum are followed. Each has a right to his/her own belief and should not be subjected to ridicule, abuse, or shaming tactics. Please, all of you, keep that in mind. We don't want to go back to the time when the discussion of religion on these forums was forbidden.

mmhmm, Administrator

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 14:24:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 1, 2016 11:16:46 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

There are a number of factors, and in rural America religion binds communities together, however the rise of atheism even in America suggests it is only a matter of time.

That may be so; however, I see no reason to take it upon myself to speed up the process. A person's personal beliefs are just that - personal. Those of another don't affect me and my beliefs are of no consequence to anyone other than myself. To argue over the insignificant is, to me, folly. I'm not given to wastes of time and energy for no other reason than to further an endless argument. It reminds me too much of a face-off between the kid with the pail and the kid with the shovel who both want to run the sandbox.

If this is truly your wish, by all means continue but make sure the rules of this particular forum are followed. Each has a right to his/her own belief and should not be subjected to ridicule, abuse, or shaming tactics. Please, all of you, keep that in mind. We don't want to go back to the time when the discussion of religion on these forums was forbidden.

mmhmm, Administrator

I hardly consider the nature of our existence insignificant.

I will remain civil as always.

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 13:55:32 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

....

An interesting read....

When the Pew Research Center compared religious and atheist beliefs, there was an interesting parallel among a minority of atheists and non-atheists. No, we are not talking about the flying spaghetti monster, which is a joke. Although the dictionary definition of atheism is based upon a person who believes God does not exist, the 2015 Pew poll found that 14 percent of those who call themselves an American atheist also believe in “God” or a universal spirit. In fact, the number of people who directly call themselves atheists is less than the percentage who do not believe in God or a universal spirit.



Read more at www.inquisitr.com/2539980/atheist-beliefs-in-america-2015-pew-poll-atheism-religion-spiritual-church/#wfSDy3TbC6cKHer5.99



Read more at www.inquisitr.com/2539980/atheist-beliefs-in-america-2015-pew-poll-atheism-religion-spiritual-church/#7wVbFU63YAoLJ3bU.99

Yep, very interesting indeed.

At the same time, the number of Americans who say they are “absolutely certain” that God exists has dropped from 71 percent in 2007 down to 63 percent. In the past, those who considered religion “not too important” might have still claimed a religious affiliation, but now “they increasingly describe themselves as atheist, agnostic or nothing in particular when asked about their religious identity.This decrease has occurred mostly due to the death of older generations. Only about 40 percent of Millennials consider religion to be an important factor in their lives. This generational shift has greatly influenced the new study since they were largely not included in the 2007 poll.

=========================================================

It seems it is indeed only a matter of time, the generational shift is unstoppable, just like here in the UK.

[uncle23]

.....

also interesting..

www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/us/examining-the-growth-of-the-spiritual-but-not-religious.html?_r=0



“Spiritual but not religious.” So many Americans describe their belief system this way that pollsters now give the phrase its own category on questionnaires. In the 2012 survey by the Pew Religion and Public Life Project, nearly a fifth of those polled said that they were not religiously affiliated — and nearly 37 percent of that group said they were “spiritual” but not “religious.” It was 7 percent of all Americans, a bigger group than atheists, and way bigger than Jews, Muslims or Episcopalians.

[Deleted]

I think what we mean is No Religious Affiliation does not inherently = atheist...

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 20:25:28 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

.....

also interesting..

www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/us/examining-the-growth-of-the-spiritual-but-not-religious.html?_r=0



“Spiritual but not religious.” So many Americans describe their belief system this way that pollsters now give the phrase its own category on questionnaires. In the 2012 survey by the Pew Religion and Public Life Project, nearly a fifth of those polled said that they were not religiously affiliated — and nearly 37 percent of that group said they were “spiritual” but not “religious.” It was 7 percent of all Americans, a bigger group than atheists, and way bigger than Jews, Muslims or Episcopalians.


I would be interested to know what they mean by spiritual i am spiritual but an atheist.

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 20:36:06 GMT -5 oped said:

I think what we mean is No Religious Affiliation does not inherently = atheist...

Not suggesting it does, i am more interested in the generational drift, Fundamentalist....religious....spiritual....agnostic....atheist....it is the way Europe went.

Spirituality is a feeling of special significance and we are right back to our status seeking chimp genes.

[toshmanta]

The essay spread online, with thousands of Facebook “likes” and reposts. Ms. Daniel heard from so many people that she decided to expand her essay. In the book, Ms. Daniel, a Congregationalist preacher who is pastor at a church near Chicago, argues that spirituality fits too snugly with complacency, even hedonism — after all, who doesn’t like walks in nature? — whereas religion is better at challenging people to face death, fight poverty and oppose injustice. 


==================================================

I view this as mocking the spiritual.

Who says religion is better than the spiritual at fighting poverty or opposing injustice ?

Religion preaches immortality, hardly challenging people to face death more like denying it.



Religion, by bringing people together, in community, at regular intervals, facilitates an ongoing conversation about matters outside the self.
============================================================

mmm a community concerned with matters outside the self could describe Communism, and it is atheistic.

[toshmanta]

When you are not certain if God exists and you lose your religious affiliation......it is a slippery slope to critical thinking.

p.s. Americans have been brainwashed to think atheism is Communism, they do not want to be tarred as something as anti-American as Communism, i bet half the country is closet atheists.

[toshmanta]

Atheists, in general, are more likely to be male and younger than the overall population; 68% are men, and the median age of atheist adults in the U.S. is 34 (compared with 46 for all U.S. adults). Atheists also are more likely to be white (78% are Caucasian vs. 66% for the general public) and highly educated: About four-in-ten atheists (43%) have a college degree, compared with 27% of the general public.

======================================================

Highly educated people are trained to think objectively and critically.



Americans like atheists less than they like members of most major religious groups. A 2014 Pew Research Center survey asked Americans to rate groups on a “feeling thermometer” from zero (as cold and negative as possible) to 100 (the warmest, most positive possible rating). U.S. adults gave atheists an average rating of 41, comparable to the rating they gave Muslims (40) and far colder than the average given to Jews (63), Catholics (62) and evangelical Christians (61).

====================================================


Freedom from religion is a necessary part of Freedom of Religion.


www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/01/10-facts-about-atheists/

[Deleted]

I don't understand why an atheist would want to talk about God and religion so much.

Why do you?

[Deleted]

I don't like atheists less than other religious groups. I tend to have little patience for anyone who says the answer to why the believe is because you need to take their word for it... For instance I thought GEL was much more reasoned in her approach to explaining her beliefs in your other thread than you did. I might not agree with her reasons, but I can respect the thought she gave up the topic. I'm just not feeling the same from you? Sorry.

There are demographic reasons why younger males might trend more atheist. Do you have change data for that subgroup over time?

[weltschmerz]

Dec 1, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I don't understand why an atheist would want to talk about God and religion so much.

Why do you?

Welcome to Evangelical Atheism.
Have you heard the Good News?

[toshmanta]

Dec 1, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I don't understand why an atheist would want to talk about God and religion so much.

Why do you?

My reasons are very simple, i believe religion is an obstruction to human progress.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2016 23:31:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 1, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I don't understand why an atheist would want to talk about God and religion so much.

Why do you?

Welcome to Evangelical Atheism.
Have you heard the Good News?

I guess so.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2016 23:33:07 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Dec 1, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I don't understand why an atheist would want to talk about God and religion so much.

Why do you?

My reasons are very simple, i believe religion is an obstruction to human progress.

Ok, thanks.