God of the Gaps.

[toshmanta]

My dear friend Shooby has requested the return of an old favourite of mine, it is a classic.

A few hundred years ago we could not explain the rich diversity of life and the answer back then was God did it until we found an evidence based explanation and this gap in our knowledge was closed.

There are still things we cannot explain, such as the origin of the universe and life, and yes for some the answer is God did it, this on its own does not bother me everyone is entitled to their opinion in the absence of contrary evidence.

What does amuse me is when some use this gap in our knowledge as evidence for God, and their reasoning lacks logic.

Great store is placed on the premise something cannot come from nothing unless God did it, in reality we have no knowledge of the condition of " nothingness ", it does not exist in our physical universe and is a human concept and construct. So the premise nothing existed outside or before our universe is just as mythical as God itself, we just don't know and cannot apply universal cause and effect logic to matters outside our universe.

Much of the confusion was due to a misinterpretation of Hawkings response to the question, what existed before the universe and he replied, time began with the universe so nothing existed before time. It was a tongue in cheek response to demonstrate the limitations of human understanding because our human mind can only measure things in spacetime, that is why he said " it is like asking what is South of the South Pole. 

The origin of life is yet unknown, but nobody is suggesting Biology from Chemistry and Physics is impossible, it is just difficult and complex.

These gaps in our knowledge are not proof Jesus is God or the Bible is true, they simply prove we have a lot to learn.

[sesfw]

These gaps in our knowledge are not proof Jesus is God or the Bible is true, they simply prove we have a lot to learn.


Some things are best left to faith ....... google can't answer everything ...... 

[toshmanta]

Nov 20, 2016 15:03:32 GMT -5 sesfw said:

These gaps in our knowledge are not proof Jesus is God or the Bible is true, they simply prove we have a lot to learn.


Some things are best left to faith ....... google can't answer everything ...... 

I have more faith in Google than the Bible, talking snakes indeed.

[uncle23]

Tosh
doesn't know therefor nobody else know (?)...I think sombody just intrinsically know but can't prove it.... nothing against Tosh .... just thinking to myself .....compared to infinity all creation seem to have happened instantly...

Evolution can be tweaked and eccelerated .... it is now possible to create synthetic biology ...

hacked.com/directed-evolution-teaches-nature-unnatural-brings-silicon-life/

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nov 25, 2016 12:57:00 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

Tosh
doesn't know therefor nobody else know (?)...I think sombody just intrinsically know but can't prove it.... nothing against Tosh .... just thinking to myself .....compared to infinity all creation seem to have happened instantly...

Evolution can be tweaked and eccelerated .... it is now possible to create synthetic biology ...

hacked.com/directed-evolution-teaches-nature-unnatural-brings-silicon-life/

The expansion and evolution of the universe is misunderstood due to incomplete mathematics. There is a new engine out there that "breaks the laws" of thermodynamics as we know them. My theoretical model has all but been mathematically proven at this point(now to find a mathematician that can help with that. )

You will probably find the following interesting, Uncle. Two stories about the same thing.

-A single-celled organism capable of learning
-Intelligent? Brainless slime can 'learn': study

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 12:57:00 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

Tosh
doesn't know therefor nobody else know (?)...I think sombody just intrinsically know but can't prove it.... nothing against Tosh .... just thinking to myself .....compared to infinity all creation seem to have happened instantly...

Evolution can be tweaked and eccelerated .... it is now possible to create synthetic biology ...

hacked.com/directed-evolution-teaches-nature-unnatural-brings-silicon-life/

Knowledge intrinsically has to be proven or it is not knowledge, it has been intrinsically proven that all creation took in excess of 13.7 billion years, my intuition incorporates knowledge, i do not think anyone knows more than proven knowledge.

An uninformed opinion is not as valid as an informed opinion.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 13:42:41 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nov 25, 2016 12:57:00 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

Tosh
doesn't know therefor nobody else know (?)...I think sombody just intrinsically know but can't prove it.... nothing against Tosh .... just thinking to myself .....compared to infinity all creation seem to have happened instantly...

Evolution can be tweaked and eccelerated .... it is now possible to create synthetic biology ...

hacked.com/directed-evolution-teaches-nature-unnatural-brings-silicon-life/

The expansion and evolution of the universe is misunderstood due to incomplete mathematics. There is a new engine out there that "breaks the laws" of thermodynamics as we know them. My theoretical model has all but been mathematically proven at this point(now to find a mathematician that can help with that. )

You will probably find the following interesting, Uncle. Two stories about the same thing.

-A single-celled organism capable of learning
-Intelligent? Brainless slime can 'learn': study

mmm, none of this breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics, as for the theory of everything, yep it is a tough nut to crack for a brain evolved to eat nuts, doesn't mean everything is wrong.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nov 25, 2016 15:10:39 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 13:42:41 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

The expansion and evolution of the universe is misunderstood due to incomplete mathematics. There is a new engine out there that "breaks the laws" of thermodynamics as we know them. My theoretical model has all but been mathematically proven at this point(now to find a mathematician that can help with that. )

You will probably find the following interesting, Uncle. Two stories about the same thing.

-A single-celled organism capable of learning
-Intelligent? Brainless slime can 'learn': study

mmm, none of this breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics, as for the theory of everything, yep it is a tough nut to crack for a brain evolved to eat nuts, doesn't mean everything is wrong.

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. Two separate examples; and here you have been claiming to be the big brain that's good friends with google.

www.computerworld.com/article/3143783/space-technology/the-rocket-engine-that-breaks-the-laws-of-physics.html

And no, not everything is wrong. But enough that it's left people with the belief that something can come from nothing...

[mmhmm]

Let's avoid the temptation to challenge the reading comprehension of other posters, Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger. Everyone here can read and comprehend. Not everyone here will agree with the information you're imparting. Let's leave it at that, please.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 15:32:41 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nov 25, 2016 15:10:39 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

mmm, none of this breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics, as for the theory of everything, yep it is a tough nut to crack for a brain evolved to eat nuts, doesn't mean everything is wrong.

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. Two separate examples; and here you have been claiming to be the big brain that's good friends with google.

www.computerworld.com/article/3143783/space-technology/the-rocket-engine-that-breaks-the-laws-of-physics.html

And no, not everything is wrong. But enough that it's left people with the belief that something can come from nothing...

You have provided me nothing from Google that either breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics or proves something can come from nothing, when you understand basic Physics i will get my old text books out to prove you wrong.
www.livescience.com/28132-what-is-nothing-physicists-debate.html

NEXT.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 16:05:31 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Let's avoid the temptation to challenge the reading comprehension of other posters, Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger . Everyone here can read and comprehend. Not everyone here will agree with the information you're imparting. Let's leave it at that, please.

They do like to bite.

[mmhmm]

Nov 25, 2016 16:21:28 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 16:05:31 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Let's avoid the temptation to challenge the reading comprehension of other posters, Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger . Everyone here can read and comprehend. Not everyone here will agree with the information you're imparting. Let's leave it at that, please.

They do like to bite.

I'll tell ya like I tell my cats:  NO BITING! If ya bite, ya don't eat and ya can't sleep in the bed! 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I stand by my comments. Enjoy your bliss.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 16:24:00 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nov 25, 2016 16:21:28 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

They do like to bite.

I'll tell ya like I tell my cats:  NO BITING! If ya bite, ya don't eat and ya can't sleep in the bed! 

I have a simple mind, if something breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics then it should be demonstrated, it is fairly basic empiricism, prove what you say.

Let me assure if one of the fundamental Laws of Physics had been proven false, the Cartoon Network would have mentioned it never mind the freakin news.

GIVE ME PEACE.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 16:29:40 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I stand by my comments. Enjoy your bliss.

So does Shooby, enjoy your math calculations................JESUS.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nov 25, 2016 16:33:32 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 16:29:40 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I stand by my comments. Enjoy your bliss.

So does Shooby, enjoy your math calculations................JESUS.

Gee I wonder why that would be?

Perhaps because I posted a link from a google search about NASA saying that a new rocket engine will work even though it breaks the laws of thermodynamics, and you are saying I have done no such thing.

Shocking I tell ya...

Oh, and I intend to have lots of fun working on this math problem.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 16:39:49 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nov 25, 2016 16:33:32 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

So does Shooby, enjoy your math calculations................JESUS.

Gee I wonder why that would be?

Perhaps because I posted a link from a google search about NASA saying that a new rocket engine will work even though it breaks the laws of thermodynamics, and you are saying I have done no such thing.

Shocking I tell ya...

Oh, and I intend to have lots of fun working on this math problem.

Ahem Aham tap tap tap, when you know the engine works get back to me, it has not worked yet so this statement: "There is a new engine out there that "breaks the laws" of thermodynamics as we know them."................IS FALSE, and changing it to" a new rocket engine WILL work even though it breaks the laws of thermodynamics" did not go unnoticed by my reading comprehension.

I hope your maths is better than your logic.

Peace be upon you.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nice attempt at saving face.

And with you.

[Deleted]

The little engine that could., maybe, possibly.

Not quite definitive enough if you ask me. I give this one to Tosh. 

Don't hate me.

[uncle23]

Nov 25, 2016 15:04:35 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 12:57:00 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

Tosh
doesn't know therefor nobody else know (?)...I think sombody just intrinsically know but can't prove it.... nothing against Tosh .... just thinking to myself .....compared to infinity all creation seem to have happened instantly...

Evolution can be tweaked and eccelerated .... it is now possible to create synthetic biology ...

hacked.com/directed-evolution-teaches-nature-unnatural-brings-silicon-life/

Knowledge intrinsically has to be proven or it is not knowledge, it has been intrinsically proven that all creation took in excess of 13.7 billion years, my intuition incorporates knowledge, i do not think anyone knows more than proven knowledge.

An uninformed opinion is not as valid as an informed opinion.

All i'm saying is that just because you don't know does not mean nobody else knows...the truth will not change whether or not it is proven for everyone....i'm not certain if you know whether my opinion is informed or nt informed

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 17:09:23 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nice attempt at saving face.

And with you.

The new study is just a lab test...it doesn't prove that the EM drive definitely works -- [the] team couldn't rule out all sources of experimental error, for example -- so don't let visions of EM drive-powered spaceships fill your head. However, its publication...suggests that the technology may be more than a sci-fi dream.

=====================================================

You made the statement not me, you actually provided me with the evidence and saved me getting out my first grade Physics book, do you not read links you Google, i would to save face.

Can we agree, and i insist on a yes or no, the Laws of Thermodynamics have not been as yet broken and your reading comprehension is to be polite no better than mine?

Give me a hug you loonball.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 17:15:56 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

Nov 25, 2016 15:04:35 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Knowledge intrinsically has to be proven or it is not knowledge, it has been intrinsically proven that all creation took in excess of 13.7 billion years, my intuition incorporates knowledge, i do not think anyone knows more than proven knowledge.

An uninformed opinion is not as valid as an informed opinion.

All i'm saying is that just because you don't know does not mean nobody else knows...the truth will not change whether or not it is proven for everyone....i'm not certain if you know whether my opinion is informed or nt informed

Evening Uncle, knowledge is based on evidence, let us avoid words like truth and proof, they are more relevant in Law, Maths and Logic.

Evidence is there for everyone and until it changes it is knowledge, nobody knows more than the evidence, i am knowledgeable and the evidence supports this. I may disagree with the politics of Ayn Rand but there is no doubting her logical axioms.


It is a Friday and i am drinking wine and watching Cartoons with my two sons 6 and 9,so please take my polemic style with a pinch of salt.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nov 25, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 17:09:23 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nice attempt at saving face.

And with you.

The new study is just a lab test...it doesn't prove that the EM drive definitely works -- [the] team couldn't rule out all sources of experimental error, for example -- so don't let visions of EM drive-powered spaceships fill your head. However, its publication...suggests that the technology may be more than a sci-fi dream.

=====================================================

You made the statement not me, you actually provided me with the evidence and saved me getting out my first grade Physics book, do you not read links you Google, i would to save face.

Can we agree, and i insist on a yes or no, the Laws of Thermodynamics have not been as yet broken and your reading comprehension is to be polite no better than mine?

Give me a hug you loonball.

I will admit that the fact NASA is saying lab test prove it's possible, proves that with the proper math it will be possible. Don't worry, I'm not expecting EM drives anytime soon because the proper math has to emerge.

I will apologize for hurting you feelings as well.

Enjoy the evening with your kids.

[Shooby]

  I didn't request anything of you Mr Toshy tosh.  

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 18:05:01 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  I didn't request anything of you Mr Toshy tosh.  

I hate it when you are right.

[toshmanta]

Nov 25, 2016 18:03:56 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nov 25, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

The new study is just a lab test...it doesn't prove that the EM drive definitely works -- [the] team couldn't rule out all sources of experimental error, for example -- so don't let visions of EM drive-powered spaceships fill your head. However, its publication...suggests that the technology may be more than a sci-fi dream.

=====================================================

You made the statement not me, you actually provided me with the evidence and saved me getting out my first grade Physics book, do you not read links you Google, i would to save face.

Can we agree, and i insist on a yes or no, the Laws of Thermodynamics have not been as yet broken and your reading comprehension is to be polite no better than mine?

Give me a hug you loonball.

I will admit that the fact NASA is saying lab test prove it's possible, proves that with the proper math it will be possible. Don't worry, I'm not expecting EM drives anytime soon because the proper math has to emerge.

I will apologize for hurting you feelings as well.

Enjoy the evening with your kids.

No probs, my kids want to go swimming tomorrow and i am exhausted, i have put on JAWS.

I know, i am not the greatest Dad in the world.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nov 25, 2016 18:24:04 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Nov 25, 2016 18:03:56 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I will admit that the fact NASA is saying lab test prove it's possible, proves that with the proper math it will be possible. Don't worry, I'm not expecting EM drives anytime soon because the proper math has to emerge.

I will apologize for hurting you feelings as well.

Enjoy the evening with your kids.

No probs, my kids want to go swimming tomorrow and i am exhausted, i have put on JAWS.

I know, i am not the greatest Dad in the world.

Haha.. I have an irrational fear of natural bodies of water to this day thanks to that movie.

I hear ya. I used to be able to pull off 3-4 hours a night sleep. I'm lucky to make 11:30 most nights these days.

Enjoy your day tomorrow, hope you guys have fun.

[uncle23]

.....

interesing read...

rethinking the origin of the univers..



phys.org/news/2014-09-black-holes.html

[toshmanta]

Dec 3, 2016 20:12:48 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

.....

interesing read...

rethinking the origin of the univers..



phys.org/news/2014-09-black-holes.html

Unfortunately none of the potential models for the origin of the universe involves a desert god from the bronze age.

I personally do not care how it began, the very large and very small are impossible for most chimp brains to grasp, our brains evolved from middle earth scales.

When theists have to resort to philosophical questions like the uncaused cause to justify belief one knows the end is nigh.

[toshmanta]

I do not know about anyone else but my chimp status seeking ego cannot look at a universe of 2 trillion galaxies each containing billions of suns and planets, and still think this universe was created 13.8 billion years ago specifically for descendants of primates.<br><br>Even a god with few definitions except "our creator" has to explain WHY,what is the point of all this other stuff??<br><br>There are two models of our universe, theism and naturalism, if the evidence overwhelmingly supports one model it is illogical and irrational to reject this model in favour of an explanation that clearly does not fit the evidence.<br><br><br><br><br>