Poor Customer Desisions, Oh My God!

[OldCoyote]

One of my customers business that was sold one and half years ago, have shut their doors.

Here is the problem, My customer was carrying back a balance on the sale.

A lot of emotion, I had coffee with them yesterday, set them on the right path to get thru this,  Their name is still on the lease!

Last night, they decided to change the locks on the doors,     Here is the huge problem,,,,

the people that bought the store has NOT defaulted on the payment to my customer and the landlord had not move to lock the doors.

So now we have at least breaking and entering,  and if the people that bought the store attempt to re-enter the store, find they are locked out,

opens an entire new can of worms,, Holy Crap,  call me before you do something like this.

There was fraud involved in the first sale, $100,000 was forgiven against the balance of the carry back!

These are very close friends along with being my customer,  They say that it was protecting assets,  no, this was greed setting in!

I hope this does not get too bad,  there is a lot of anger involved!

[milee]

Hard to understand what's going on here. Who changed the locks - your friend, the seller? Who forgave the $100k and why does that mean there was fraud?

And what does this have to do with poor customer decisions?

[OldCoyote]

Nov 6, 2016 22:49:30 GMT -5 milee said:

Hard to understand what's going on here. Who changed the locks - your friend, the seller? Who forgave the $100k and why does that mean there was fraud?

And what does this have to do with poor customer decisions?

The customer (my friend) changed the locks,  without due process when the buyer had not yet defaulted on any payments to them.

The customer (my friend)  made false income statements about the business,

gave back $100,000 out of  the loan balance, rather than proceed to court after they were sued.

[Deleted]

It appears the friend (customer) sold his business after miisrepresenting its profitability and agreed to let the buyer pay for it over time (taking back the loan). Friend also kept the property lease in his/her name rather than the new owner's (because the new owner was too financially shaky to get themselves on the lease?). 

Buyer found out that friend misrepresented profitability of the business.  Friend agreed to forgive $100K of the debt to try and avoid going to court.  Now, despite buyer staying current on the payments and the lease, friend locked them out of the property?  This makes no sense.  It means that the buyer can't run the business and thus can't pay back the loan.

[OldCoyote]

Nov 7, 2016 7:23:45 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Oh boy.... a lot going on here.

It appears that they misrepresented or falsified the accounting records to make it look like the business was more profitable than it actually was?

There were no buyers or sellers agents involved- a direct sale of the business? Attorneys?

Yes, there were brokers involved,  I think that they may turn have a "Blind Eye" when it comes to a sale and a commission!

At first the new buyer was also one of my customers, they were the one that pointed many points of fraud and some that I seen they did not know about.

Little things like $8000 cash suddenly showing up as income on a Saturday morning!! This in the real world does not happen!

Fabricated inventory made up of unclaimed worthless stuff with brand new tickets attached, and more.

I have distance myself from both parties.  I am stunned at my friends actions, have lost a lot of respect for them. 

With them change the lock on the doors before this goes into default, is at least breaking and entering,

My worsed fear is the buyer says that bewteen the early fraud, the locking of the doors,

gives them grounds to ask for all the money back, sue for damages!!!   All of this because of GREED!!

[OldCoyote]

Nov 7, 2016 8:16:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

It appears the friend (customer) sold his business after miisrepresenting its profitability and agreed to let the buyer pay for it over time (taking back the loan). Friend also kept the property lease in his/her name rather than the new owner's (because the new owner was too financially shaky to get themselves on the lease?). 

Buyer found out that friend misrepresented profitability of the business.  Friend agreed to forgive $100K of the debt to try and avoid going to court.  Now, despite buyer staying current on the payments and the lease, friend locked them out of the property?  This makes no sense.  It means that the buyer can't run the business and thus can't pay back the loan.

You got it!

[OldCoyote]

Nov 7, 2016 7:23:45 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Oh boy.... a lot going on here.

It appears that they misrepresented or falsified the accounting records to make it look like the business was more profitable than it actually was?

There were no buyers or sellers agents involved- a direct sale of the business? Attorneys?

Oldcoyote runs an honest business, do so means that I tell you up front everything, No lies involved!

I also know the word "No" when asked to do something less an ethical!

[milee]

Sounds like your friend the seller is not only unethical, he's dumb. Sheesh, if you cook the books, you definitely want an all cash sale so you get your money before the buyer figures it out. What kind of moron cooks the books then accepts on IOU for payment?

[OldCoyote]

It is much worse than that, the dd that got herself involved the lock thing is a Dr.

[gs11rmb]

Nov 7, 2016 9:33:47 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

It is much worse than that, the dd that got herself involved the lock thing is a Dr.

What has the DD's profession got to do with changing the locks?

[naughtybear]

Because a Dr. should be smarter than the average bear (hopefully) and should not want to put a professional license in jeopardy. It's not rocket science.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 7, 2016 11:03:46 GMT -5 naughtybear said:

Because a Dr. should be smarter than the average bear (hopefully) and should not want to put a professional license in jeopardy. It's not rocket science.

Why?  Doctors know a lot about their subject, but not everything.  They can be phenomenally stupid about money.

Medical schools, dental schools and scientific institutions do not teach classes in business dealings and money in getting their doctorate.  

[naughtybear]

I stand by my statement. If I had a professional license in jeopardy I wouldn't do such things without looking into it. Nothing to do with "business classes or money" at all. Common sense.

[Deleted]

I agree, naughtybear (and also agree with much that just because someone has extensive education doesn't mean they have good business sense).  You can be kicked out of a lot of professions for illegal behavior, even if it has nothing to do with your competence in your field. 

[sesfw]

I am stunned at my friends actions,


I would be also ........ and would slowly distance myself from them.

The new buyers are keeping up on all payments, he had no business locking them out.

Sorry you are in the middle of this

[Pants]

old coyote - have you ever considered not getting so excited about things that don't actually involve you?

Sometimes I feel like Loony was reincarnated as an old republican tradesman and became oldcoyote. 

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2016 12:32:25 GMT -5 Pants said:

Sometimes I feel like Loony was reincarnated as an old republican tradesman and became oldcoyote. 

The story of that sale did remind me of one of the sketchy deals Loony was trying to make when she was selling her business.

Sounds like old coyote was just being a sympathetic ear after all this blew up.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 7, 2016 11:40:37 GMT -5 naughtybear said:

I stand by my statement. If I had a professional license in jeopardy I wouldn't do such things without looking into it. Nothing to do with "business classes or money" at all. Common sense.

Not all licenses are jeopardized by stupid business decisions.  And not all doctors have licenses to jeopardize.

And doctors have no more common sense than the average person.  Believe me, I've known a lot and many of them and some of them have absolutely NONE with regards to money and business.

[souldoubt]

People make bad decisions all the time and individuals with professional licenses, undergrad degrees and graduate degrees are no exception.  If that weren't the case then the quarterly state CPA publication that comes out would be a lot less interesting without the enforcement actions section.    

As far as the "friend" of the OP from what's been posted their actions are fraudulent and flat out wrong among other things.  I've ended relationships over a lot less and would have no problem doing so in a case like this.  No need to let the turd linger in the proverbial bunch bowl.   

[naughtybear]

Not sure if you are trying to argue with me or get me to think how you are thinking. I still stand by what I said. >Believe me I know a Dr. can be just as lacking in common sense and money stuff as a mechanic, I still think, that in general, Dr. CAN be a little smarter the average bear. If I worked hard for my Doctorate as others may have I would like to think "I" would be a little smarter than, I think Old Coyote stated, breaking and entering. Now he doesn't actually state the "breaking and entering" was done by the DR.  though so my post might be moot. I still stand by my statement, I would like to think someone with a Doctorate degree is a little smarter than to put themselves to possibly be charged with breaking and entering. My opinion, my statement and there is no need to tell me that "just because" I know there are stupid people out there.

[tskeeter]

Nov 7, 2016 9:33:47 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

It is much worse than that, the dd that got herself involved the lock thing is a Dr.

Run!  Run fast!!

This sounds like a situation that you should distance yourself from as quickly as possible.  Don't discuss, don't listen, and above all, don't provide any information or advice.

Remember, no good deed goes unpunished. This is a situation where the only outcome seems to be that you will come out a loser.  You will lose a friend.  You will lose a customer.  And you could find yourself sued for being a party to a fraud or for defamation of character of one of the parties directly involved.

Run, oldcoyote, run!

[OldCoyote]

Nov 7, 2016 16:08:08 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Nov 7, 2016 9:33:47 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

It is much worse than that, the dd that got herself involved the lock thing is a Dr.

Run!  Run fast!!

This sounds like a situation that you should distance yourself from as quickly as possible.  Don't discuss, don't listen, and above all, don't provide any information or advice.

Remember, no good deed goes unpunished. This is a situation where the only outcome seems to be that you will come out a loser.  You will lose a friend.  You will lose a customer.  And you could find yourself sued for being a party to a fraud or for defamation of character of one of the parties directly involved.

Run, oldcoyote, run!

It's OK I am oldcoyote for a reason!

[dannylion]

Nov 7, 2016 15:21:27 GMT -5 naughtybear said:

Not sure if you are trying to argue with me or get me to think how you are thinking. I still stand by what I said. >Believe me I know a Dr. can be just as lacking in common sense and money stuff as a mechanic, I still think, that in general, Dr. CAN be a little smarter the average bear. If I worked hard for my Doctorate as others may have I would like to think "I" would be a little smarter than, I think Old Coyote stated, breaking and entering. Now he doesn't actually state the "breaking and entering" was done by the DR.  though so my post might be moot. I still stand by my statement, I would like to think someone with a Doctorate degree is a little smarter than to put themselves to possibly be charged with breaking and entering. My opinion, my statement and there is no need to tell me that "just because" I know there are stupid people out there.

Smart, well-educated, professional people get involved in or even initiate shady activities all the time.  Especially if they have the kind of god complex a few doctors and other extremely bright, well-educated people have.  It has nothing to do with their education or how hard they worked to achieve their position or qualify for the professional license they might be putting at risk.  It has everything to do with character.  Intelligence and a good education do not overcome the kind of character flaw that would make oldcoyote's friend's behavior seem like a good idea (to oldcoyote's friend, not normal people). 

Smart, well-educated people can be arrogant and feel they are above the rules that others abide by.  They can believe they should be able to do whatever they want or that they're so smart they can pull off a swindle and no one else will be smart enough to figure it out.  Most of them are not like that; however, some of them are.  They can also be just as susceptible to the really bad judgment and stupid choices that cascade from panic and lose whatever reason or common sense they possess and just flail around doing stupid things because they're scared. 

We may like to think doctors and other professionals who went through so much to achieve their status would be smart enough to understand that even their exalted social or professional status would not be enough to let them get away with criminal activities, and for the most part we would probably be right.  But there is that small percentage of bad apples that will believe they can outsmart the rest of us and behave in reprehensible ways.   Where other professionals finding themselves in a difficult financial situation would find appropriate, legal ways of working through it, the rogues and those overwhelmed by fear will go for the scam or the crime.  There have always been people like that in all walks of life and always will be. We cannot always assume others have our values or common sense or ability to think rationally in difficult circumstances.   

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2016 9:24:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

The guy that runs my health care "group" is a medical doctor, and also a lawyer. He runs one of the bigger health care companies in the area, and actually does maintain a law office. He has also been married three times. He does see patients, and saw me once.

I'm both amazed at his energy and glad that he is not my regular physician.

If I do a Google search on the name of my uncle, who had a long career as an orthopedic surgeon, I can find all the messes he made- got too friendly with a few of his female patients, and had a DWI conviction.  First wife divorced him (she's a wonderful person and I'm still in touch with her).  Second wife stood by him when his problems resurfaced.  (Also a good woman- an OR nurse.)  He was at my mother's funeral and has been sober for something like 6 years, still lean and good-looking at age 73. 

Yeah, smart people can sometimes display poor judgment.