Did Jesus exist?

[toshmanta]

There is a growing number of historians with no theological bias who believe there is little evidence of Jesus ever existing,Paul spoke to a ghost and never met the man, and the 4 anonymous gospels were not written by any eye witnesses and have been dated between 30 and 70 years after the event. There is no credible independent source documenting his existence so in effect we have a myth and a book, much like Achilles and the Iliad,i actually find this quite funny.

[sesfw]

Welcome to the boards Toshmanta ........ we are a very diverse group and have interesting discussions.

Personally I believe Jesus did live.  The 4 gospels about his life being written 30 - 70 years after his death is too short a time period for me to think of as a myth.  The letters to various churches during that time frame are mostly attributed to Paul and he was a follower of Jesus.  Paul's letters are directed to individual problems in the churches and are probably not direct words and teachings of Jesus.

As far as I'm concerned the stories of His immaculate conception and birth are immaterial.  What is important is His teachings.  He was a 1st century Jewish man, an itinerant preacher that traveled the area teaching people how to live with each other ..... and treat each other with kindness.

I well believe He made the local officials mad and did die on a cross, which was the punishment of choice during that time.  His subsequent rising and resurrection I will leave in my heart and find out for sure at my death.

I do believe in a spiritual life after death .... to what extent my personal punishment will be I'll find out at that time.  

[Shooby]

  Omg, Tosh is back i see!  lol

[toshmanta]

Evening Shooby, yes i am back, but i have mellowed with age so no fireworks from me.....yet.

[toshmanta]

Nov 5, 2016 20:23:12 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Welcome to the boards Toshmanta ........ we are a very diverse group and have interesting discussions.

Personally I believe Jesus did live.  The 4 gospels about his life being written 30 - 70 years after his death is too short a time period for me to think of as a myth.  The letters to various churches during that time frame are mostly attributed to Paul and he was a follower of Jesus.  Paul's letters are directed to individual problems in the churches and are probably not direct words and teachings of Jesus.

As far as I'm concerned the stories of His immaculate conception and birth are immaterial.  What is important is His teachings.  He was a 1st century Jewish man, an itinerant preacher that traveled the area teaching people how to live with each other ..... and treat each other with kindness.

I well believe He made the local officials mad and did die on a cross, which was the punishment of choice during that time.  His subsequent rising and resurrection I will leave in my heart and find out for sure at my death.

I do believe in a spiritual life after death .... to what extent my personal punishment will be I'll find out at that time.  

Paul never met Jesus, so i am not sure we can describe him as a follower or a reliable source of evidence that Jesus existed.

Speaking of evidence there is none of a consciousness after the brain dies, and since it is an emergent property of the brain i find it difficult to understand the concept of an eternal consciousness. Our earliest ancestors evolved self awareness and this led to an awareness of life and death, the terror of death had to managed as mortal fear is hardly a survival tool in a world of tooth and claw. We got the idea from dreaming, our earliest religions were dream cultures, we assumed dreams where our spirits floating about outwith our body. We live and die and the universe does not blink.

[sesfw]

Paul never met Jesus, so i am not sure we can describe him as a follower or a reliable source of evidence that Jesus existed.

No other single human being has had as much influence on the lives of people than this One person.  This 1st century Jewish man named Jesus still has followers teaching love and compassion.  I willingly follow Him to the best of my ability.

If I cease to exist after death it won't matter, I won't know the difference.  But today I do believe.  I am at peace.

[Blonde Granny]

Nov 7, 2016 9:27:31 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Paul never met Jesus, so i am not sure we can describe him as a follower or a reliable source of evidence that Jesus existed.

No other single human being has had as much influence on the lives of people than this One person.  This 1st century Jewish man named Jesus still has followers teaching love and compassion.  I willingly follow Him to the best of my ability.

If I cease to exist after death it won't matter, I won't know the difference.  But today I do believe.  I am at peace.

As am I.

[mmhmm]

I've removed a couple of posts in this thread. Please, keep the discussion relevant. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

[toshmanta]

Nov 7, 2016 9:27:31 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Paul never met Jesus, so i am not sure we can describe him as a follower or a reliable source of evidence that Jesus existed.

No other single human being has had as much influence on the lives of people than this One person.  This 1st century Jewish man named Jesus still has followers teaching love and compassion.  I willingly follow Him to the best of my ability.

If I cease to exist after death it won't matter, I won't know the difference.  But today I do believe.  I am at peace.


Not sure if this can be construed as evidence as such more like blind faith, Santa Claus has influenced billions,i stopped believing he existed in my 40s.

[sesfw]

Santa Claus has influenced billions,i stopped believing he existed in my 40s.


I believe in Santa Claus ....... I have been Santa. I have seen the light in children's (and adults) eyes when something happens without explanation.  I will spend what is left of my life trying to be an anonymous Santa (Jesus like) where ever I see a need.  Too many things have happened to me, and doors have opened that logically should not have.


Yes, it's blind faith and I'm so grateful I have it.  I don't spend my time and energy trying to rationalize everything.

[Blonde Granny]

I can say without doubt or hesitation that my life since my DH passed away a year ago has changed in ways that I believed was not possible. If others don't believe, that is not mine to argue. I just know how a life can be changed by simple belief. The Lord answered my prayers and my cries for help.

Enough said......

[toshmanta]

Yes, it's blind faith and I'm so grateful I have it.
=================================

Comfort is not a convincing argument for existence.



I don't spend my time and energy trying to rationalize everything.

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Of course you do, you just make an exception when it comes to religion, and it takes as much energy to ignore reality as embrace it.

If Jesus existed he died protesting against injustice and promoting love, that should be good enough, no need to wrap it up in Bronze Age voodoo, in my humble and esteemed opinion.

Peace.

[toshmanta]

I can say without doubt or hesitation that my life since my DH passed away a year ago has changed in ways that I believed was not possible. If others don't believe, that is not mine to argue. I just know how a life can be changed by simple belief. The Lord answered my prayers and my cries for help.

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I am genuinely sorry to hear your husband passed away, Jesus brings you comfort as The Lord, and he brings me comfort as a message, we are not that far apart in terms of effect.

[sesfw]

Tosh ........ my life also changed after my DH#! died 18 years ago.  Doors opened for me that were beyond explanation.


Personally I believe Jesus did live. The 4 gospels about his life being written 30 - 70 years after his death is too short a time period for me to think of as a myth.  

This still holds true for me.



protesting against injustice and promoting love

He did die protesting against injustice and promoting love.

[countrygirl]

I think Jesus the man likely existed, have been a lot of things woven around his life through the centuries, do I

believe all of it.  No

But most of the various gods religions worship have likely also existed, its just who won out over the rest.

However, if there were such a man I doubt he even recognizes the religion of piety, poverty, understanding,

and love he stood for.  And I think he was likely of very dark skin being from one of those regions.

The bigoted, racists groups that worship him likely wouldn't even let him in their churches.  LOL!

[sesfw]

I think he was likely of very dark skin

I agree.  

Several years ago we were in the National Art Gallery in DC and of course they had several of the master works there of Jesus and His life.  The lady with us was not of Christian religion and we started talking about how Jesus was portrayed in various paintings.  First thing I did was look at where the artist came from.

First one we looked at was from the Netherlands ......... blond, blue eyed people.  The artist drew what he knew.  Second one was from Italy ...... a darker hued people.  The artist drew what he knew.  It was this way through-out the gallery.

There is no way Jesus was a blond, blue-eyed man.  Even the darker hues of Italy isn't reasonable.  Coming from the middle east He had almost black eyes, black hair that was probably tied back with cording, dark skin.

But He taught love and compassion.  I gladly follow this man and His teachings.

[mollyanna58]

I am not very religious, but I have no doubt that Jesus was a real person whose teachings have been passed down for over 2000 years. 

[countrygirl]

I think the teachings have been embellished through the years. They find all kinds of so called passages that have

been reinterpreted and reinterpreted through the years plus translations by people who "know what was meant", so

a lot written in extra I imagine.

[toshmanta]

Since the gospels were not written by eye witnesses or even contemporaries of Jesus, 30 to 70 years is an eternity in terms of accurate reporting, there is no independent report of his existence by the Jews or Romans, and they recorded everything. I am undecided if he existed ore= not but i certainly do not believe a Jew would claim to be God, they were monotheists. Jesus was paganized to appeal to a wider Roman audience, virgin births, demi-god and miracles etc, you can read the transition from man to God through Mark, to Matthew, to Luke and by the time you get to John written at the end of the century he is a full blown all singing dancing Roman God.

[toshmanta]

Nov 8, 2016 12:30:31 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Tosh ........ my life also changed after my DH#! died 18 years ago.  Doors opened for me that defy explanation.

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A year ago my world imploded and i entered a very dark place, my life changed reading Buddhist philosophy and meditation, and i am not a Buddhist, as the old saying goes " WHATEVER WORKS ".

Take care xx

[toshmanta]

Nov 8, 2016 15:53:53 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

I am not very religious, but I have no doubt that Jesus was a real person whose teachings have been passed down for over 2000 years. 
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels


Impossible to deduce what he said to be honest.

[sesfw]

as the old saying goes " WHATEVER WORKS ".


One of the very great things about our country ...... As long as I'm not harming or bothering myself or any one else, I'm free to believe in Who or what I want.

It's a wonderful privilege to have