alternative-school-student-loses-leg-after-adult-slammed-him

[geenamercile]

www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/10/20/alternative-school-student-loses-leg-after-adult-slammed-him-to-the-ground-lawyer-says/



So I am posting this because I am still trying to work out how I am feeling about this.  Last year I worked for an alternative school.  It was only one year and now I am back in a public school.  But honestly something like that this happening was one of my greatest fears.  The requirements to be a behavioral support was a 4 hour class and a high school diploma and that person's opinion on what was an action caused by a students ED was given more weight then mine as the Special Ed teacher.  I loved working with the ED students, but the expectations or what some of the staff thought was "helping" I thought was crazy.  Least to say when the VDOE came for their licences renewal I had a nice conversation with the inspector one on one.  I worry about the students who I left.  I worry that the way some of these alternative schools operate they are doing more harm then good.  And considering the tuition paid by the public school districts for the schools are between 1500-2000 dollars a week one would think they would have more oversight.  



Over all I know we need a place for these students, and I know there are some great alternative schools out there.  I did not have the luck of working for one, but this seriously should not have happened.     

[billisonboard]

Always difficult to assess when the article is mostly from the perspective of the attorney for one side in the situation.

I worked in the past in an alternative school setting in which I was assaulted twice.  I have also worked in corrections education.  There are children who engage in behaviors which are beyond understanding by most.

I am glad that this will be fully investigated and potentially adjudicated by individuals who will get first hand knowledge of what happened.

[cronewitch]

Both the student and security were wrong. The student tried to leave more than once and was man handled but he wasn't allowed to leave. Slamming him to the floor seems rough but may have been required to stop him. Not getting him immediate medical attention seems dead wrong too but he may have faked injuries before so they didn't believe him. The child was a trouble maker or and keeping them in line would be hard.
I think we need to see the evidence before saying who was the most wrong and if the employee needs punished and/or to lose his job. A broken leg that doesn't break the skin doesn't sound like it would cause amputation so that needs looked at too before deciding the tax payers owe his family a lot of money. Missing a leg would be bad but it isn't a lifetime disability now with prosthetic being no longer a peg leg. He can be a pirate.

[JustLurkin]

My son is in a private alternative son run by a hospital. He has not had to be restrained, but I am to be notified of any anomalies. Just last week I received a call indicated I did not need to pick him up, but he was "not himself" and staff were worried a massive seizure was approaching. I left work and met him shortly after he arrived at aftercare, once at home he had his seizure.

The conflicting reports are worrisome and I am glad videos are available for review. If he was not in distress why would he be carried to school bus and who was supposed to carry him off the bus? He should have been transported to a hospital for the protection of all involved, if not for health reasons.

I do understand it is a very difficult job, he has been at his school for a few years, and if I had to guess the turnover of staff during that time I would say 90%. If someone requested a list of his 10 best teachers, I could easily rattle off the names. Unfortunately, not 1 of those is in the educational system anymore. It's a loss to the students and greater community.

[geenamercile]

The adult in this situation over reacted.  Even if the kid was trying to leave, the amount of force used was unnecessary in my opinion due to the result.  If you are working in an alternative school you know the type of students you are working with, if you do not have the mind set to keep yourself from over reacting or escalating yourself, you shouldn't be working at that type of school.  Seriously if you have to use the amount of force that broken a students leg, you should have let them walked.  He could have followed them, he could have called the police and let them know the student was leaving the school property.  

I keep coming back that these schools need a greater amount of oversight then they have.  That more preventative measures need to be in place to stop things like this, and at least in this state the requirement for being a behavioral support is a joke.  

[zibazinski]

Until you can put an armed guard in each classroom and the halls and bathrooms, teachers and staff are in danger for their safety. You'd have to be crazy or desperate to work in these places.
I get your point of view. Have you ever been in a place that services these people?

[geenamercile]

Yep, I worked in a private alternative school last year.  The students I worked with were those who had been already been removed from the gen-ed classroom to an ED room at their home school, removed from there to a public run alternative school, and then removed from there to a the private alternative school.  I taught mainly high school with one middle school class.  I was not crazy or desperate to work there.  It was a population I enjoyed working with.  However, my first behavioral specialist I had with me in the room was awful and should not have been working with this population.  He would seriously escalate situations.  Him and I got into disagreements more than once.  I was very thankful when he left due to the fact he didn't feel he was getting the respect that he deserved from the kids.  I had him tell me more then once that we should not allow modifications or accommodations that were in the IEPs because he didn't believe they really had the ED that they were diagnosed with.  

There were a few other reasons I decided not to return back there, mostly different philosophies then the admin.  I did interview with two other alternative schools before accepting the position I am in now.  One I turned the offer down after meeting with the owner, after my first interviews.  The other was for a potential position but the teacher who was there decided to stay.  I do believe my philosophies would have aligned with that one better.  

I am CPI trained in restraints.  Which was a 4 hour class.  That is what is also offered to the behavioral support as training.  But that program and I am sure any restraint program is pretty clear that if you can not do the restraint in a safe manner you do not put your hands on the student.  If you are not in control of yourself you do not put your hands on the student.  The focus when working with an out of control person is that person, and helping them get back into control.

And here the other thing, I took that job knowing that I could end up hurt.  That a student may take a swing at me.  I knew that was a risk working with that population, you as the teacher/adult still have to stay in control.  And if you are burning out find a different job.   

      

[zibazinski]

I agree but some people think they can make a difference so they try. If I were a 6'6" male with a build like a monster, I'd do it. Other than that, I'd want to be protected behind bullet proof glass cage.

[tskeeter]

Oct 22, 2016 15:38:10 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/10/20/alternative-school-student-loses-leg-after-adult-slammed-him-to-the-ground-lawyer-says/



So I am posting this because I am still trying to work out how I am feeling about this.  Last year I worked for an alternative school.  It was only one year and now I am back in a public school.  But honestly something like that this happening was one of my greatest fears.  The requirements to be a behavioral support was a 4 hour class and a high school diploma and that person's opinion on what was an action caused by a students ED was given more weight then mine as the Special Ed teacher.  I loved working with the ED students, but the expectations or what some of the staff thought was "helping" I thought was crazy.  Least to say when the VDOE came for their licences renewal I had a nice conversation with the inspector one on one.  I worry about the students who I left.  I worry that the way some of these alternative schools operate they are doing more harm then good.  And considering the tuition paid by the public school districts for the schools are between 1500-2000 dollars a week one would think they would have more oversight.  



Over all I know we need a place for these students, and I know there are some great alternative schools out there.  I did not have the luck of working for one, but this seriously should not have happened.     

I think we need to keep in mind that what we are reading are the attorney's allegations, opinions, and assumptions.  At this point, none of the information appears to be established as factual.  How about we hold judgement until the facts are public information?

[973beachbum]

This situation gets me on two levels.  The first one is my mind is blown that a grown adult felt the right way to handle a child leaving was to tackle them.  Kids walked out of the alternative school all the time here.  They won't be allowed backif they do it without permission but no one ever tried to physically stop them.  Unless the student was acting violent no way would anyone ever touch a student.  And actually other than a few student fights there has never been any violence at it.

My son has issues.  He is actually smart enough to get good grades despite it but it doesn't mean he doesn't still have them.  I have gone round and round with more than a few teachers because in their mind if they don't see the disability it isn't there.

Confrences are a nightmare.  They all think that because he is smart enough to pass a test his disability doesn't hinder him at all, and he should just try harder.  Or I should punish him until he stops being ADD or OCD.  What they don't understand is it takes a monumental effort on both his and our parts to get him to the point where he is now.  Short of putting a pillow over his face nothing I do is going to stop it. 

One time I told a teacher to stop thinking of it as ADD and call it a broken leg and then asked what we should do to make it disappear.  She got real confused and said she didn't understand.   My point which she never got is that just because a disability isn't visable doesn't mean it isn't there and they aren't completely disabled by it.

[zibazinski]

How big was this "child" comes to mind? Also how bad do you have to be to get removed from several schools? Just because the law forced an education on those who don't wish to be there doesn't remove anyone's rights to be safe, including the staff. If they'd have let this student walk out, they'd still be accountable.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Oct 24, 2016 7:26:15 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

How big was this "child" comes to mind? Also how bad do you have to be to get removed from several schools? Just because the law forced an education on those who don't wish to be there doesn't remove anyone's rights to be safe, including the staff. If they'd have let this student walk out, they'd still be accountable.

Yep....if they had allowed him to walk out and he got hit by a bus, guess who would get blamed? Some kids can't be allowed, for their own safely, to free-roam as they wish. In addition, one cannot undermine the safely of the other students in the class while this kid is in the middle of a meltdown and swinging stuff around. If he's allowed...guess who is going to get blamed in the event another child is hurt?

That all being said, breaking a leg is pretty serious. Slamming a child to the floor multiple times is pretty serious. The article only gives one side of the story so I'll reserve my vilification until we hear both sides. 

[Deleted]

I'm one that would have to be there before passing judgement.  I went to an alternative school and the shit that went down behind those doors was pretty crazy even 30 years ago when most of the students were ones that were there by choice.  Now they're forcing them to go as early as 6th grade here if they don't work out in the mainstream and some of those kids have some serious behavioral/drug issues and don't want to be there.  It's like a low security prison.  I couldn't believe it when my cousin took the advice of the middle school and transferred her son there in 7th grade.  I would have homeschooled before I did that, and I have ZERO interest in homeschooling!

[souldoubt]

Like most things in life the truth is probably somewhere between the kids story and the contractors.  That said in cases like these there's no winner because it's going to get expensive while the kid, contractor and school are going to have tough times dealing with it.  All I know is I wouldn't want my better half or any woman I know working in a school or situation where you're dealing with problem kids who are male.  I used to work with a guy who was getting his credentials/license so that he could work with kids in juvenile hall.  During one of his training sessions on his way out he saw one of the kids acting out or something and one of the guards ended up slamming the kid on his head.  The guy I knew was maybe 5'6 and you could tell seeing it happen bothered him but at the same time it reminded him what kind of situations he could end up in.  Some of the kids in there were much bigger than him and when you add in anger, aggression or full on rage issues it's scary.  

[billisonboard]

It became an impossible situation when it decided that a zero dropout rate was the goal. There are individuals who can not be successful in a school setting, no matter how "alternative" is attempted. Thing about it this way, "100% of individuals between the age of 23 and 29 should be working at entry level jobs for a major corporation" or "100% of individuals beyond the age of 67 should be retired and living in housing areas designed for senior living". "100% of individuals between the ages of 6 and 18 should be in a schooling environment."

[quince]

The violence is iffy, but the not providing medical care is really really out there. If true, I think that would be the bit that can't be explained away, unless he went home with a bruise and had his mom run over his leg with her car when he got there (which is ridiculous.)

Size does NOT make a 13 year old not a child, though children are dangerous when they are the size of adults, the burden of handling a situation appropriately is still on the actual adults.

[tractor]

Oct 23, 2016 15:52:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Until you can put an armed guard in each classroom and the halls and bathrooms, teachers and staff are in danger for their safety. You'd have to be crazy or desperate to work in these places.
I get your point of view. Have you ever been in a place that services these people?

My wife is neither crazy, nor desperate and she has worked in a school just like this for the past 23 years. She does it to try to provide a positive influence for the kids. It's very hard, exhausting work, but something you have to be passionate about in order to succeed. Remember, in most cases it's the parents (or lack there of) that screwed the kids up so bad.

There's no easy answer.

[zibazinski]

Teaching is hard and exhausting, period, but you shouldn't be in fear for your safety.

[tractor]

Oct 24, 2016 18:37:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Teaching is hard and exhausting, period, but you shouldn't be in fear for your safety.

I agree, but due to continual budget cuts, they removed all support staff from the classrooms. When you work in a residential detention facility there's always the chance of a physical confrontation.

[geenamercile]

muscogee.allongeorgia.com/exclusive-surveillance-video-shows-student-being-carried-out/

While I still think the behavioral specialist shouldn't have done the last restraint if he couldn't do it correctly because the child had an object, the major neglect is if you have to carry a child who is hurt to put on the bus to go home, you have called an ambulance. Actually,I think if you work in a school where restraints are used, there should be a nurse on staff at all times for situations like this.  Also I know with the restraints  I was trained in that depending on the students size there were different restraints and most were two people holds for the reason of keeping the student safe.  The holds worked because of body positions not force.  I am also not sure I believe that the last hold was only 10 seconds.  But I am glad that it is being investigated more.      


I also disagree with the statement that if you take a job teaching with at risk youth you shouldn't expect to have any risk.  There are many jobs that have an inherited safety risk, you accept that risk when you accept the job.  If you don't want to have that risk then don't accept that job.   

[zibazinski]

Those that have inherent safety risks usually have protection of some sort.

[billisonboard]

The three ways I have seen/experienced to have "protection" is either training to minimize risk, transferring primary responsibility of dealing with the risk to another human being, or cages.

[zibazinski]

Or use cameras to teach. The students cannot get to the teacher that way. They use to teach that way in prisons. Don't know if they do anymore.

[billisonboard]

Oct 29, 2016 10:13:19 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Or use cameras to teach. The students cannot get to the teacher that way. They use to teach that way in prisons. Don't know if they do anymore.

Which is transferring risk of out of control behavior to someone other than the teacher.

[zibazinski]

Well, if the student attacks another student, then the authorities can get involved. It seems there's no protection for teachers which isn't right.