Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 8:08:55 GMT -5
Do colleges have a system for weighing high schools or is the GPA number an absolute thing? What got me questioning it was DS got his first quarter grades this week and I was surprised how rigorous the grading scale was, so I checked out the other school in town and it's much lower. Down on the lower end it's a 10% difference!
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Oct 20, 2016 8:42:49 GMT -5
I remember something about my college saying they recalculate your GPA based on the numeric grades in your transcript, with them giving their own weight to honors and ap.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 8:50:35 GMT -5
I would think they would have to do something. It appears that some school weight Honors and AP classes higher for GPA (can end up with greater than 4.0) and some do not. Different percentages, different scales like Sroo mentioned. And another question, where does the PSAT play in? DS had to take it yesterday, but I don't ever remember taking that. When I went it was the ACT taken on the college campus a few months before going.
|
|
skubikky
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 7:37:12 GMT -5
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by skubikky on Oct 20, 2016 9:00:35 GMT -5
PSAT is a practice SAT exam. It isn't submitted for admission. The SATs are the exam results that are used for college application.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 9:03:14 GMT -5
They all had to take it grades 9-11. It must just be for practice test taking. I don't think they ever take the SAT, instead they offer the ACT three or four times a year on Saturdays.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,158
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 20, 2016 9:10:50 GMT -5
I just looked up our flagship..they look at GPA and class rank together, based on that particular high school.
Our school's grading system is more stringent even that most of the college classes I've taken..It's pretty nuts. At least I still have the luxury of telling the kids a 4.0 isn't what we should strive for at this level. (A 4.0 would be 100% on everything...nothing wrong ever..)
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Oct 20, 2016 9:11:06 GMT -5
It's just practice until the year they do it for national merit. Though I don't think we took it more than once back in my day. Would have been nice to see it a few times before national merit.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Oct 20, 2016 9:24:58 GMT -5
Every school I applied to in 2004 accepted both. Most of the schools were in the southeast.
Back then they encouraged you to take both. The act is heavier in math and science type stuff and focuses less on English than the sat does. At least that's how it was. I don't fully remember it cuz I had a 102 fever when I took the sat. I scored high enough in the act to get my full tuition scholarship and basically gave up.
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 20, 2016 9:56:59 GMT -5
PSAT is practice until junior year when top scores can earn your kid a National Merit Scholarship. In addition, there are some outside Gifted and Talented programs (Johns Hopkins, etc.) that use the PSAT (and the SAT) to find qualified students.
Having just spent the past 2 years in the college admissions process with my sons, I can tell you that many colleges now calculate their own GPAs for each applicant because of the wide disparity in quality/difficulty between, and in, many school districts. Each high school has to prepare an annual "school profile" and make it available to colleges to use in their calculations. Our local high school is consistently in the top 5 in the greater Boston area. It would not be fair for students at either school for colleges to consider a GPA from our high school as equivalent to the same GPA at a high school in receivership. (As an aside, one of the stated goals of the NCLB Act is to eliminate this disparity.)
With regard to the SAT v. ACT debate, it is still the case that some schools prefer the SAT over the ACT and vice versa, some accept either, some allow you to superscore the SAT (you take it multiple times and send in only the best scores from each section), and fortunately, an increasing number of schools are disregarding the standardized tests altogether.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,148
|
Post by alabamagal on Oct 20, 2016 10:09:22 GMT -5
Different schools have different methods for looking at GPA. (Now there is a definitive answer for ya!) Super competitive schools will probably put more emphasis on evaluating the school, looking at class rank, etc. Also different schools will sometimes value different criteria (GPA vs. SAT scores). My youngest was looking at one of the top level universities in our former state, and they state that they evaluated GPA and number of AP classes over SAT scores. And on AP classes, it would be based on the number that your school offered, so if they only offered 1, it was ok to only have 1. Class rank will also depend on the statistics of the school. My kids were all in the top 10 of their class but their school only had ~40 kids per grade, so they were not that high percentage wise , but it was a private college prep school, so top 25% was still good. I don't think anyone rally looks at PSAT. For one thing it is given by the schools, so there is less security to monitor potential cheating.
|
|
tractor
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 15:19:30 GMT -5
Posts: 3,495
|
Post by tractor on Oct 20, 2016 10:13:10 GMT -5
In Michigan, the schools only provide the SAT test now. It used to be only the ACT, but they lost the contract last year. So my oldest son only took the ACT and my youngest will take the SAT this year. I'm still trying to decide if I should pay to have him take the ACT as well at a later date. Most colleges around here will accept either.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 10:19:11 GMT -5
PSAT is practice until junior year when top scores can earn your kid a National Merit Scholarship. In addition, there are some outside Gifted and Talented programs (Johns Hopkins, etc.) that use the PSAT (and the SAT) to find qualified students. Having just spent the past 2 years in the college admissions process with my sons, I can tell you that many colleges now calculate their own GPAs for each applicant because of the wide disparity in quality/difficulty between, and in, many school districts. Each high school has to prepare an annual "school profile" and make it available to colleges to use in their calculations. Our local high school is consistently in the top 5 in the greater Boston area. It would not be fair for students at either school for colleges to consider a GPA from our high school as equivalent to the same GPA at a high school in receivership. (As an aside, one of the stated goals of the NCLB Act is to eliminate this disparity.) With regard to the SAT v. ACT debate, it is still the case that some schools prefer the SAT over the ACT and vice versa, some accept either, some allow you to superscore the SAT (you take it multiple times and send in only the best scores from each section), and fortunately, an increasing number of schools are disregarding the standardized tests altogether. Ok, that's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. I was starting to wonder if putting him in a tough school might be hurting him more than helping. Even looking at it from the class rank it might be hard to climb to the top of the pack if you're in a small class with a bunch of super competitive kids...something my son really isn't.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 10:21:32 GMT -5
I looked through all the schools we would probably be considering and they're all ACT or SAT. The only exception is MIT (which DS will probably never get in, but he talks about it so I looked). They require a couple SAT subject exams in addition to the ACT or SAT.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,984
|
Post by haapai on Oct 20, 2016 10:38:56 GMT -5
I've heard all sorts of stories about how various colleges and universities attempt to weigh the difficulty of an applicant's high school experience but I've never heard of an admissions office looking at a high school transcript and then looking at the charts that you provided and saying "Hey, this D should be an F." or "Wow, that's a tight grading system. Let's systematically adjust it to something more like what other schools use."
I've heard of all sorts of other adjustments and tweaks but never that one. Recalculating the GPA based on the letter grades received in only academic classes seems to be quite common. Using an in-house GPA calculation that systematically increases the grades received in AP, IB, and honors classes may also be common. Then there are the plus schemes where points are awarded due to the overall difficulty of the classes attempted in high school and "school reputation" adjustments.
So it would appear that the kid attending the school with the tighter grading policy is at a bit of a disadvantage when being evaluated by colleges and universities.
On the other hand, the slightly lower GPA might not hurt the kid much in the long run. The odds are pretty good that the school with the tougher grading policy is the better school and the kid will learn more there and that will show up in standardized test scores.
|
|
Annie7
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:42:14 GMT -5
Posts: 249
|
Post by Annie7 on Oct 20, 2016 11:48:14 GMT -5
As someone mentioned, PSAT in 11th grade is mainly used for qualifying for the National Merit Scholarship. Some colleges will actively recruit those who have made it to the finalist level. There are some who will give a full ride for those too.
GPA is calculated different in different schools. The scale is different based on whether you take honors/AP/IB, etc. So, a 4.0 might be not enough if you've taken many honors classes. I was told that the colleges will weigh the students from each school based on how the school grades them. Atleast the more elite ones.
I would urge students to have finished all their SAT/ACT and subject tests by October of their senior year. The college applications are due by Oct/Nov for early action/decision and end of Dec for regular admission. You need to send the scores with your application, so the scores need to be available by then.
The subject tests are required by many colleges, especially for engineering disciplines. It's normally 1 math and 1 science. A rare couple of colleges require 3 subject tests.
Also, I would strongly suggest the student map out when they will take all of these. These have to be balanced with the mid terms, finals and AP exams. There is a possibility that if it's not planned, you might not be able to complete taking all these by the time your applications are due.
My DS2 is in 11th grade which I consider the most crucial one wrt college applications. Here is the current plan for him:
PSAT in Oct; Math 2 subject SAT in Nov; Regular SAT in Dec; Mid terms in Jan; if the SAT scores from Dec don't meet expections, then retake them in Feb/Mar/Apr; AP exams (5 of them) in May; Finals in June; Physics SAT in June.
Whew!! I am glad I'm not him.
It was only when we mapped it out that he realized the heavy load he has. DS1 was self motivated and I was not really involved much in this. He would schedule and take the tests on his own. I had to do the legwork for DS2.
Good luck.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,158
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 20, 2016 12:22:06 GMT -5
I looked through all the schools we would probably be considering and they're all ACT or SAT. The only exception is MIT (which DS will probably never get in, but he talks about it so I looked). They require a couple SAT subject exams in addition to the ACT or SAT. You never know about MIT. My old bosses' daughter was homeschooled through high school and ended up at MIT. She was also the one that didn't read until she was seven.
|
|
Regis
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 12:26:50 GMT -5
Posts: 1,415
|
Post by Regis on Oct 20, 2016 12:27:07 GMT -5
Here's the route we took with all three of our kids. All three were able to get into the school of their choice using this plan. DS1 is currently working in his area of study. DS2 has a GA position and is in grad school. DD1 is in her junior year of college.
Take both the ACT and the SAT. Whichever one they did better in (was ACT for all three), we had them take it a second time to improve score. If you google "SAT ACT Conversion" you'll find the chart that most schools use when comparing scores between the two.
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 20, 2016 12:41:04 GMT -5
If you have access to Naviance, I highly recommend it. It allows a student to search for schools on a wide array of variables (location, size, major, housing, athletics, activities, etc.). It also allows a student to confidentially input his/her GPA, test scores, etc. and it will generate a list of schools where the student falls into the range of accepted students.
|
|
NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,888
|
Post by NastyWoman on Oct 20, 2016 13:13:36 GMT -5
PSAT is practice until junior year when top scores can earn your kid a National Merit Scholarship. In addition, there are some outside Gifted and Talented programs (Johns Hopkins, etc.) that use the PSAT (and the SAT) to find qualified students. DS1 took the PSAT in 6th grade. It was some kind of invitational program (at least it was at the time in Bangkok). If they scored high enough they were offered certain summer classes at several IVY league/top ranked universities. We only got DS1 to take the test after promising that he would absolutely not have to go to any of those places. It was our only chance to give him some exposure to the process since xH and I both sat for our degrees in our home country and there they didn't/don't use this test or the equivalent thereof.
He could have had his choice within the programs offered based on his scores, instead we just traipsed around the world and had fun
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,148
|
Post by alabamagal on Oct 20, 2016 13:28:12 GMT -5
If you have access to Naviance, I highly recommend it. It allows a student to search for schools on a wide array of variables (location, size, major, housing, athletics, activities, etc.). It also allows a student to confidentially input his/her GPA, test scores, etc. and it will generate a list of schools where the student falls into the range of accepted students. Definitely recommend this type of search, or just independent searches to help find out where you fit in a school's student population. We did a lot of searching on College Board website. It will give you the 25-75% gpa and SAT/ACT statistics. If you are above the 75% stat, you will likely get accepted and possibly offered merit aid at private schools. If you are below 25% your chances are lower unless you have some specific talent (like throwing a touchdown pass). If your son is just starting high school, he can see where he needs to be for various schools and could be motivation to help him do well.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 13:57:53 GMT -5
I looked through all the schools we would probably be considering and they're all ACT or SAT. The only exception is MIT (which DS will probably never get in, but he talks about it so I looked). They require a couple SAT subject exams in addition to the ACT or SAT. You never know about MIT. My old bosses' daughter was homeschooled through high school and ended up at MIT. She was also the one that didn't read until she was seven. True. I have no doubt he's capable, but he really does not have the motivation or internal drive to get into a school like that. Right now I'm pushing him a lot and I'm getting tired. I think even the state flagship in science or engineering might be a dream. I looked up the profile for incoming freshman for 2016 and it was 93-99th percentile for class rank and 30-34 for ACT.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 13:59:01 GMT -5
Not seeing any mention of Naviance on the high school's website. Bummer.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,984
|
Post by haapai on Oct 20, 2016 14:32:17 GMT -5
I'm sure that this will be unwelcome news but I'll throw it out there anyways. Did what you looked up mention APs or IBs at all?
They've become the big thing in college admissions. Well, they have been the big thing in college admissions for the last ten to thirty years. The bump that they give candidates who are lucky enough to attend a school that offered several is enormous.
This analogy is kinda strained, but bear with me. When I hear folks talking about grades and test scores and college admissions these days, I cringe. It's the same feeling that I get when I hear the presidential election being talked about and the only numbers used are the latest polls of the nationwide popular vote. It's the electoral college that matters but that's harder to talk about.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,158
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 20, 2016 14:43:01 GMT -5
True. I have no doubt he's capable, but he really does not have the motivation or internal drive to get into a school like that. Right now I'm pushing him a lot and I'm getting tired. When DS gets into college, I'm going to host a party for those of us with kids with little internal motivation/drive. I think there will be lots of this going on to make up for all of this
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:43:22 GMT -5
I'm sure that this will be unwelcome news but I'll throw it out there anyways. Did what you looked up mention APs or IBs at all? Not in the stats, just in the admissions criteria list. Primary FactorsBecause academic preparation is key to student success in college, the strongest consideration in the decision is given to student’s academic preparation, or primary review factors. Coursework through high school graduation. (Admitted students typically exceed the University's high school requirements. See course requirements) Grades in academic coursework Class rank/Grade Point Average ACT or SAT scores Secondary FactorsIndividual circumstances listed below are also considered as part of the overall assessment of each application. Enrolling a diverse student body—with students bringing differing experiences, talents, and perspectives to their scholarly community—is essential to achieving the development outcomes of a University of Minnesota education. Our university community is strengthened by our students representing different races, economic backgrounds, geographic origins, genders, religions, ethnicities, sexualities, talents, and beliefs. Our holistic review takes into consideration the individual circumstances that make each individual student unique. We consider the following secondary factors in our decision review. Outstanding talent, achievement, or aptitude in a particular area An exceptionally rigorous academic curriculum (enrollment in honors, AP, IB, or college-level courses) Strong commitment to community service and leadership Military service Contribution to the cultural, gender, age, economic, racial, or geographic diversity of the student body Evidence of having overcome social, economic, or physical barriers to educational achievement First-generation college student Significant responsibility in a family, community, job, or activity Family employment or attendance at the University of Minnesota Personal or extenuating circumstances Information received in open-ended questions
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:47:42 GMT -5
True. I have no doubt he's capable, but he really does not have the motivation or internal drive to get into a school like that. Right now I'm pushing him a lot and I'm getting tired. When DS gets into college, I'm going to host a party for those of us with kids with little internal motivation/drive. I think there will be lots of this going on to make up for all of this I am submitting my RSVP now! I will be there!
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Oct 20, 2016 14:56:25 GMT -5
When DS gets into college, I'm going to host a party for those of us with kids with little internal motivation/drive. I think there will be lots of this going on to make up for all of this I am submitting my RSVP now! I will be there! RSVP #2 here. I'll bring the beer.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 15:03:02 GMT -5
I'm not worried about him not being able to test high enough to get into a school, he'll probably test really well, and have his pick of several state schools, but 30-34 is pretty damn high! I was reading more on there and it says they expect next year to be even tougher to get a spot. He has talked about aeronautical engineering for forever and I think that's the only school in MN that offers it. Time to sit him down and lay out what he needs to do if he's serious about that.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,148
|
Post by alabamagal on Oct 20, 2016 15:04:50 GMT -5
I am submitting my RSVP now! I will be there! RSVP #2 here. I'll bring the beer. There is hope though. My DS is very smart but lacked in motivation and social skills. High school was easy for him, he got good grades with very little effort. When we dropped him off a college (mid-level state university 4 hours from home), we thought there was a very good chance that he would sit in his room and play video games and flunk out. He managed to make it through freshman year with decent grades. He also joined some activities, made a bunch of friends and got a girlfriend. He chose a major (eventually double majored), chose a career path and made nearly straight As from then on out. He is now 24 working a good job and engaged to his girlfriend from freshman year. The only thing that made a difference was the HE decided to do well in school.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 15:08:17 GMT -5
RSVP #2 here. I'll bring the beer. There is hope though. My DS is very smart but lacked in motivation and social skills. High school was easy for him, he got good grades with very little effort. When we dropped him off a college (mid-level state university 4 hours from home), we thought there was a very good chance that he would sit in his room and play video games and flunk out. He managed to make it through freshman year with decent grades. He also joined some activities, made a bunch of friends and got a girlfriend. He chose a major (eventually double majored), chose a career path and made nearly straight As from then on out. He is now 24 working a good job and engaged to his girlfriend from freshman year. The only thing that made a difference was the HE decided to do well in school. I hope so. I keep telling myself I'm going to have to back off soon because I can't go with him to college and make sure he's turning in his work. Seriously, this is the thing I worry about most with him staying in town to go to school and living at home. I don't want to do 4 years of college again!!
|
|