Titanic did not sink?

[bimetalaupt]

The reason for this Thread is not about the Titanic sinking or the loss of 1,500 live but the power of unrelated events or as a Jewish friend said about Hitler: "without Hitler the Jews would not have had Israel.  "  I think it may be said that the White Star line was not as good as the German " Hamburg - American line. The choose in captains sucked.  


J.P.Morgan lost the the insurance over a bad judgement from the British Admiralty for an event  from the records  that should not have happened.  By law and experience faster small ships yield to slower larger ships.  That is lesson one to be a ABS.  J.P.Morgan put it to the Insurance industry and raised the value of the "Titanic" to 12.5 million vs 7.5 million for the original loss.  Who won? No body!  This was the largest fraud that coost our world 1,500 live for the future of the White Star Line's rich owners.  Just my opinion, Duke 

 

[Wisconsin Beth]

There were a lot of crappy decisions made with the Titanic. I think for every one good decision, there were two or more of the crap ones. Hindsight is always 20/20 though!

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 25, 2016 17:40:52 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

There were a lot of crappy decisions made with the Titanic. I think for every one good decision, there were two or more of the crap ones. Hindsight is always 20/20 though!

If the "Pig"correct the Titanic served for 24 years.    J.P.Morgan got the insurance scam back at the cost of 1,500 lives!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sorry, so JP was the insurer for the Titanic, or the backer that lost out because the insurance company said White Star and their poor choice of Cpt were at fault?

Would the wealthy riders on the Titanic still have payouts on their life insurance policies in this case??

[bimetalaupt]

Oct 4, 2016 21:23:10 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Sorry, so JP was the insurer for the Titanic, or the backer that lost out because the insurance company said White Star and their poor choice of Cpt were at fault?

Would the wealthy riders on the Titanic still have payouts on their life insurance policies in this case??

In the long run JPM made $5 million on his increase in insurance from 7.5 million to 12.5 million that he did one week before the Titanic left England. JPM backed White Star.  The German line Hamburg-American Line had better and larger Ships.   

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It shows no confidence in the Titanic that he raised the premium. Without a doubt the problems you listed were known...

You are saying that the Hamberg line was a bigger, better, and more well run ship and it should have had the chance to make the voyage first, but they rushed the Titanic??

[bimetalaupt]

The Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft (HAPAG for short, often referred to in English as Hamburg America Line (sometimes also Hamburg-American Line, Hamburg-Amerika Linie or Hamburg Line); literally Hamburg American Packet-shipping Joint-stock company) was a transatlantic shipping enterprise established in Hamburg, Germany, in 1847. Among those involved in its development were prominent citizens such as Albert Ballin (Director General), Adolph Godeffroy, Ferdinand Laeisz, Carl Woermann, August Bolten and others, and its main financial backers were Berenberg Bank and H. J. Merck & Co. It soon developed into the largest German, and at times the world's largest, shipping company, serving the market created by the German immigration to the United States and later immigration from Eastern Europe. On September 1, 1970, after 123 years of independent existence, HAPAG merged with the Bremen-based North German Lloyd to form Hapag-Lloyd AG.

HAPAG's leader Albert Ballin, believed that safety, size, comfort and luxury would always win out over speed. Thus he conceived the three largest liners yet to be built, named the Imperator, Vaterland and Bismarck. The first two were briefly in service before the First World War. In 1914, the Vaterland was caught in port at Hoboken, New Jersey at the outbreak of World War I and interned by the United States. She was seized, renamed Leviathan after the declaration of war on Germany in 1917, and served for the duration and beyond as a troopship. After the war, she was retained by the Americans for war reparations. In 1919 Vaterland's sister ships —Imperator and the unfinished Bismarck—were handed over to the allies as war reparations to Britain and sold to Cunard Line and White Star Line, respectively, and renamed Berengaria and Majestic. In 1917, its liner Allemannia was "torpedoed by German submarine near Alicante"; 2 people were lost.[4] In 1939, its liner St. Louis was unable to find a port in Cuba, the United States, or Canada willing to accept the more than 950 Jewish refugees on board and had to return to Europe. On April 9 1940, while German warships attacked Kristiansand, Norway, arrived freighter MS Seattle of HAPAG into the crossfire between German attacking warships and Norwegian coastal artillery. She was shot in fire and sank and her crew were briefly prisoners of war.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_America_Line

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Duke! . Forgot about this discussion..

So, because the best ships were German, the "Englishman" from Connecticut decided to back the English company to try and "win" a race. However, as the day approched to ship out, it becomes clear that he's backing the wrong horse, and instead of losing money in the deal he just buys more insurance?

[bimetalaupt]

Oct 27, 2016 20:42:27 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Duke! . Forgot about this discussion..

So, because the best ships were German, the "Englishman" from Connecticut decided to back the English company to try and "win" a race. However, as the day approched to ship out, it becomes clear that he's backing the wrong horse, and instead of losing money in the deal he just buys more insurance?

A++++++,
In fact: Cunard was a better firm then White Star.  Speed vs over the top 1st class means better ROE as the assets can produce more returns with better use of assets and more trips. Kermit Roosevelt's USline did better with the SS United States.  No excuse for the lose of 15,003 lives due to poor planning,etc.  Just my thoughts.

Duke

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It's interesting that Cunard and Whitestar eventually merged... Yes, the trip should not have happened in the first place due to known problems, and JPM shows intent(which should be classified as more than fraud because of lives lost) buy buying extra insurance before the crash..

Speed over luxury, aka the mega project... Agreed, and this is why modular systems are superior to the systems of the past. While mega projects fail at a large rate, always go over cost, and take years to gear up and start producing: by design modular systems work before they leave the shop floor or they can't be approved. In 12 months a modest size system can be producing profits, and then reinvestment of profits can grow past the size of the mega project over time. The proof is in the insurance.. While Sasol pays to fix problems and through more engineering at their project, "you know who" would guarantee their system will work once on site, or they will pay out of their pocket to make it right. Just some thoughts based in facts.

God bless.