Can you revoke a will and have the rules of intestacy apply?

[haapai]

I've always wondered about this.  Can a person that has already written a will simply revoke it and have their estate divided by intestacy rules?  If this can be done, is it ever done, and how is it done?  Does a freestanding document (possibly with a bit of notarization) do the trick or is usually done by adding a codicil to the original will? 

[swamp]

tear up the will.

[Deleted]

Stepmother, is that you? 

[haapai]

Sept 19, 2016 16:37:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

tear up the will.

That seems like a cruel thing to do to folks who have heard that it exists and will be looking for it. 

[sesfw]

tear up the will.

If a signed will isn't found, it doesn't exist.

That being said ............ do you really want the state to dictate who gets what, family battles, and losing about half the value to all the legal maneuvering?

This almost happened after my DH#1 died.  His original signed will couldn't be located ....... our attorney in a different town had mis-placed it.

Luckily it was found, packed in a box and stored in the business basement, before the probate court got the case.

[Deleted]

Yep, swamp is the expert- tear it up and it never happened.  

It can be messier without a will since the state needs to appoint an Administrator (handles duties an Executor would have), maybe require that they be bonded, etc. 

[swamp]

Sept 19, 2016 17:05:33 GMT -5 haapai said:

Sept 19, 2016 16:37:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

tear up the will.

That seems like a cruel thing to do to folks who have heard that it exists and will be looking for it. 

Cruel or not that's how it's done.

[haapai]

Sept 19, 2016 17:08:31 GMT -5 sesfw said:

That being said ............ do you really want the state to dictate who gets what...?

Actually I can think of quite a few people who would prefer dental surgery over writing a will.  Some people hate thinking about their own mortality.  Others writhe at thought of being accused of playing favorites.  N.B.  Writing a will that appears to duplicate the rules of intestacy isn't necessarily going to be understood by others as a cute way of ducking the issue, nor is it necessarily going to result in the same distribution of property.  Things can get wonky if anyone named in the will predeceases the testator and the will hasn't been larded with all sorts of cruel and morbid sounding clauses that explain what will happen if so and so dies first. 

There are also quite a few good reasons for excluding someone from your will that have little to do with how much you like that person.  An heir who is receiving top-up disability payments probably won't benefit from an inheritance unless it is carefully put into some sort of trust.  An addict's life can be shortened by receiving an inheritance. 

Writing a will that treats the disabled person or the addict differently can be incredibly painful and distressing, especially if the full extent of someone's disability or addiction has not been amply documented at the time that the will is written. 

If I ever found myself in a situation like that, even if the parent of the disabled person or the addict had begged me to write a will that bypassed their child, I would probably start taking better care of myself and want to know exactly how to revoke such a will if it became unnecessary. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 19, 2016 17:42:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 19, 2016 17:05:33 GMT -5 haapai said:

That seems like a cruel thing to do to folks who have heard that it exists and will be looking for it. 

Cruel or not that's how it's done.

Swamp-Several years ago I had my will made by a law firm. For some reason, I am under the impression the law firm kept a copy of the sgined will. I may be wrong about the copy.

Say I tore up my will. If the law firm did keep a copy and I never told the law firm I tore up my copy, is that copy of the will still with the law firm still valid and if my 'heirs' knew the law firm I used had a copy could they clsim it was valid?

[cronewitch]

My will is from 1984 and most of the people died already. Only my brother is left so everything goes to him. He doesn't want it and his youngest grandchild will be an adult in the spring, I will probably outlive my brother. I really need a new will but my IRA and ROTH have beneficiaries so my brother's kids and my ISO will get something.

Leaving money to my niece's daughter would be a problem. She will apply for SSI when she turns 18, if I skip her do I skip her brother too? I think I will just leave the house and stuff to my nephew had he can take care of his parents, sister and niece and nephew any way he wants.

My cousin got grandma's house and couldn't accept it because he is on SSI and Medicaid. His mom is 88 and when she dies he can't inherit 1/3 of a farm or anything so his brothers will get all of it. He can't afford to lose Medicaid and has never worked so can't get SSDI or SS retirement so needs to keep SSI too. He will be homeless because his mobile isn't allowed to stay on the farm after his brothers own it or sell it, he only got a permit to stay with his parents because he is disabled. Too bad you can't get welfare for things like that and still try to build a future.

[Deleted]

There is a new type of savings account for disabled persons where they may have up to 100k assets and it will not impact their benefits. 

www.able-now.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvIO_BRDt27qG3YX0w4wBEiQAsGu3efivo7Q-fkP4RG5I3xEmIjWc4-AxzAHpcYgsnY5blwkaAjsp8P8HAQ

Eta: just FYI, you'd have to start giving to her now though, annually into the plan, they only allow 14 k a year to go into the plan right now, from all sources. 

[mollyanna58]

If circumstances change, a new will can be written, revoking any previous will.

[swamp]

Sept 19, 2016 17:53:03 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 19, 2016 17:42:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

Cruel or not that's how it's done.

Swamp-Several years ago I had my will made by a law firm. For some reason, I am under the impression the law firm kept a copy of the sgined will. I may be wrong about the copy.

Say I tore up my will. If the law firm did keep a copy and I never told the law firm I tore up my copy, is that copy of the will still with the law firm still valid and if my 'heirs' knew the law firm I used had a copy could they clsim it was valid?

The original is destroyed = no will.

Exception: Lawyer loses/destroys original will without consent of testator.   An attorney copy of the will can be used.

[Deleted]

So I need to be asking where the original is kept? I'm thinking the attorney has it? Would that be correct.

[swamp]

Sept 20, 2016 12:40:51 GMT -5 oped said:

So I need to be asking where the original is kept? I'm thinking the attorney has it? Would that be correct.

correct.

I keep all the originals unless the client requests otherwise.

I also have the wills from 2 other attorneys who have retired.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2016 12:37:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 19, 2016 17:53:03 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Swamp-Several years ago I had my will made by a law firm. For some reason, I am under the impression the law firm kept a copy of the sgined will. I may be wrong about the copy.

Say I tore up my will. If the law firm did keep a copy and I never told the law firm I tore up my copy, is that copy of the will still with the law firm still valid and if my 'heirs' knew the law firm I used had a copy could they clsim it was valid?

The original is destroyed = no will.

Exception: Lawyer loses/destroys original will without consent of testator.   An attorney copy of the will can be used.

Thanks, Swamp.

[zibazinski]

My ex MIL did just this. Tore up her mother's will so her kids wouldn't get the half her mother wanted them to have. She wanted it all. Still it wasn't enough and her two boys are supporting her.

[cronewitch]

Sept 20, 2016 7:31:16 GMT -5 oped said:

There is a new type of savings account for disabled persons where they may have up to 100k assets and it will not impact their benefits. 

www.able-now.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvIO_BRDt27qG3YX0w4wBEiQAsGu3efivo7Q-fkP4RG5I3xEmIjWc4-AxzAHpcYgsnY5blwkaAjsp8P8HAQ

Eta: just FYI, you'd have to start giving to her now though, annually into the plan, they only allow 14 k a year to go into the plan right now, from all sources. 

Thanks, it looks like she needs to be 18 and no real benefit since it grows tax free for her and she won't have taxes to pay with little to no income anyhow but at least something to be an emergency fund to pay for dental bills and things like glasses and education or housing.

[Deleted]

I had an aunt who did that.  She was actually a lawyer who enjoyed making out new wills for "fun."  When she died, the law firm contacted me and my cousin.  We were the beneficiaries according to their copy.  She had the original.  She deliberately left my sister out, which was not a nice thing to do.

We searched and searched.  We found dozens of wills, but not the will that the law firm had a copy of.  Meanwhile, a young woman who had befriended her said the aunt had torn up her previous will and made one out that made her the sole beneficiary.  She probably did and tore that one up as well.  That was the judge's decision.

So she died intestate.  Her brother and sister, whom she hated passionately, got 2/3 of her estate.  My sister and I inherited the other 1/3 since our father died years ago.  The young woman didn't want to go away quietly so she got a small settlement.

It took a long time to settle this estate because my other aunt (the schoolteacher one) didn't want to settle the estate.  She enjoyed being a snowbird for a few years as she traveled down there to "see about things" periodically.

It is still annoying when I remember how long it took.  She really didn't want to sell that condo.  

[CCL]

So you are all saying that a copy is pretty much invalid or worthless? I had no idea. I always thought copies were just as good as originals. I better check and see what it is that I have.

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2016 2:28:16 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Sept 20, 2016 7:31:16 GMT -5 oped said:

There is a new type of savings account for disabled persons where they may have up to 100k assets and it will not impact their benefits. 

www.able-now.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvIO_BRDt27qG3YX0w4wBEiQAsGu3efivo7Q-fkP4RG5I3xEmIjWc4-AxzAHpcYgsnY5blwkaAjsp8P8HAQ

Eta: just FYI, you'd have to start giving to her now though, annually into the plan, they only allow 14 k a year to go into the plan right now, from all sources. 

Thanks, it looks like she needs to be 18 and no real benefit since it grows tax free for her and she won't have taxes to pay with little to no income anyhow but at least something to be an emergency fund to pay for dental bills and things like glasses and education or housing.

The biggest benefit is that it obliterates the only 2k in assets rule. It wouldn't impact her assistance.

[hoops902]

Sept 19, 2016 17:42:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 19, 2016 17:05:33 GMT -5 haapai said:

That seems like a cruel thing to do to folks who have heard that it exists and will be looking for it. 

Cruel or not that's how it's done.

The obvious solution to this is to tell the people closest to you who would have known there was a will that you're tearing it up because you no longer wish to have a will. Secretly tearing it up after people know you've written a will is both stupid and thoughtless.

[zibazinski]

My Ex's mom tearing up her mother's will didn't stop the oldest son from questioning where was the will? I kept my mouth shut because I was married to one of her son's but I always felt guilty about it. The fact that her daughter needed the money more than her grandchildren did helped in that decision but still, it isn't what the grandma wanted done.