Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 29, 2016 11:04:21 GMT -5
It takes two to tango. :-)
When I was 16ish, I think I knew better.
I guess people mature at different rates too.
I think it's more than just maturity levels. Sort of a genic "you" here: You're assuming that you'd know better AND would have the self esteem/moral character?/whatever to say NO to a person in authority - who might be implying that your life will be made better by engaging in sex (or maybe implying that if you DON"T engage in sex your life will be WORSE much WORSE).
I'm pretty sure most youngsters have a tweak of conscience that "somethings not quite right" when adults hit on them or respond positively in a sexual way when the youngster flirts with them. I just don't think youngsters are aware how to extricate themselves from a difficult situation they didn't truly intend to be in. Especially since we teach children to 'respect authority' and to "always do what authority tells you to do" - you can substitute a name of a person or the title of a profession for "authority".... I think there might be some conflict there - but from a kid's point of view it's probably just best to "do what you are told to do... someone in authority isn't trying to hurt you they care about you... so it's ok".
I'm saying that for a kids/18 and under (no matter what their maturity level) it's wrong and that it's the adults problem not theirs.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 29, 2016 11:05:04 GMT -5
The kid having some culpability is contingent on the adult approaching the kid as an equal. Which I would say would be along the lines straight out asking them on a date.
I'm willing to bet most, if not all, student teacher relationships start out with the teacher praising them, volunteering to help them out with classwork, to be a mentor. And then spending more and more time with the kid. Until it's like oh we'll just do the tutoring at my place.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 29, 2016 11:05:20 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, NO!
When you were 16, would you have had an inappropriate relationship with a teacher? What about your friends or siblings? Would you have thought it was okay and there was nothing wrong with it?
You are missing the point that MOST of the students who become victims of teacher abuse come from not so secure backgrounds. They are already underprivileged, so they for them right and wrong morales are no as pronounced as its for other kids. Irrespective of what the child thinks, the onus is on the teacher to enforce the right, as the adult in the situation. If a 16 yo girl throws herself at her male teacher, should he go with the flow just because she is an obviously eager female? Its on him to enforce the right as the adult in the situation.
"Underprivileged kids" have just as good a sense of what is right and what is wrong as "privileged" kids do as a whole. Sure...you are going to find exceptions just as you will find some rich kids with no morals whatsoever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 11:08:09 GMT -5
You are missing the point that MOST of the students who become victims of teacher abuse come from not so secure backgrounds. They are already underprivileged, so they for them right and wrong morales are no as pronounced as its for other kids. Irrespective of what the child thinks, the onus is on the teacher to enforce the right, as the adult in the situation. If a 16 yo girl throws herself at her male teacher, should he go with the flow just because she is an obviously eager female? Its on him to enforce the right as the adult in the situation.
"Underprivileged kids" have just as good a sense of what is right and what is wrong as "privileged" kids do as a whole. Sure...you are going to find exceptions just as you will find some rich kids with no morals whatsoever.
I don't know. If you're coming from a household where there's already a lot of inappropriate behavior going on, the lines aren't quite as clear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 11:08:27 GMT -5
The situation I know of, where the student was dating the teacher, they reunited after the student and her school bus driver got divorced.
It didn't last long.
(Rumor has it, she had an affair with her boss after that.)
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 29, 2016 11:09:02 GMT -5
When there is an inappropriate (dating) relationship between a student and teacher, do you blame it all on the teacher?
Shouldn't the high school student know better? What about the student's parents? If a teacher is "hitting" on a student, shouldn't the student report it to authorities?
Whenever something like this is in the news, I wonder about it because they make it sound like it is 100% the teacher's fault.
In our high school, there was a girl that was dating a teacher and later ended up marrying her school bus driver.
You may be thinking that "consent" means something in this case. A person can say "yes" to something and yet have no idea what they are really saying yes to because of their age and experience. That's why, as adults, we are expected to guide them - not take advantage of their innocence. And yes. We would be punished when we fail to do that.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 29, 2016 11:09:40 GMT -5
"Underprivileged kids" have just as good a sense of what is right and what is wrong as "privileged" kids do as a whole. Sure...you are going to find exceptions just as you will find some rich kids with no morals whatsoever.
I don't know. If you're coming from a household where there's already a lot of inappropriate behavior going on, the lines aren't quite as clear. I'm not talking about inappropriately behaving families. I'm talking about unprivileged families. Those two aren't always the same thing.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 29, 2016 11:10:58 GMT -5
You are missing the point that MOST of the students who become victims of teacher abuse come from not so secure backgrounds. They are already underprivileged, so they for them right and wrong morales are no as pronounced as its for other kids. Irrespective of what the child thinks, the onus is on the teacher to enforce the right, as the adult in the situation. If a 16 yo girl throws herself at her male teacher, should he go with the flow just because she is an obviously eager female? Its on him to enforce the right as the adult in the situation.
"Underprivileged kids" have just as good a sense of what is right and what is wrong as "privileged" kids do as a whole. Sure...you are going to find exceptions just as you will find some rich kids with no morals whatsoever.
Hmmm, I took it as more of a "I need to behave a certain way to 'survive'" versus being underprivileged means having no morals. Being underprivileged may also mean you don't realize you can say "no" or maybe it's that saying 'no' doesn't change anything.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 29, 2016 11:15:52 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning.
The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd.
He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 29, 2016 11:16:25 GMT -5
I think the teacher is put in a tough spot, though.
The 16 kid has the hots for the 23 yo teacher. Kid is interested in pushing boundaries.
Teacher does best to keep everything on the up and up. Won't engage child when child is pushing boundaries. Wouldn't be caught in room alone with child. Does not do any social media such that kids can't find teacher.
16 yo kid goes to parents. 23 yo teacher won't help me in the subject even though I've asked ALL THE TIME!!!
Parent goes to talk to teacher. Why you no help my kid? My kid has asked repeatedly for extra help and you refuse...Do your damn job! I'm going to the principal to report this.
What does the teacher do? Disclose the truth? What if teacher does? Do parents clutch pearls and say "My kid, naughty. Never. My kid has MORALS. My kid does no wrong, other than needing help in this class" or do parents twist the teacher's word. "You can't be in the same room with my child. WTF is wrong with you" I'm going to the school board over this.
I dunno. I would hope they have some sort of guidance for the teachers.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 11:19:32 GMT -5
I think the teacher is put in a tough spot, though. The 16 kid has the hots for the 23 yo teacher. Kid is interested in pushing boundaries. Teacher does best to keep everything on the up and up. Won't engage child. Wouldn't be caught in room alone with child. Does not do any social media such that kids can't find teacher. 16 yo kid goes to parents. 23 yo teacher won't help me in the subject even though I've asked ALL THE TIME!!! Parent goes to talk to teacher. Why you no help my kid? My kid has asked repeatedly for extra help and you refuse...Do your damn job! I'm going to the principal to report this. What does the teacher do? Disclose the truth? What if teacher does? Do parents clutch pearls and say "My kid, naughty. Never. My kid has MORALS. My kid does no wrong, other than needing help in this class" or do parents twist the teacher's word. "You can't be in the same room with my child. WTF is wrong with you" I'm going to the school board over this. I dunno. I would hope they have some sort of guidance for the teachers. I would hope the schools have some sort of public place for tutoring. Maybe teacher could say, sure, I will meet you, but not in my room. We can meet in the study hall/library and sit at a table out in the open.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 11:19:44 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning. The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd. He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all) Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 11:21:14 GMT -5
"Underprivileged kids" have just as good a sense of what is right and what is wrong as "privileged" kids do as a whole. Sure...you are going to find exceptions just as you will find some rich kids with no morals whatsoever.
I don't know. If you're coming from a household where there's already a lot of inappropriate behavior going on, the lines aren't quite as clear. Or lack of love, affection and acceptance... Yo can see the aching need in some children's eyes... They are the ones most likely to be targetted.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 11:23:55 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning. The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd. He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all) Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
Their flirting is a separate issue and would have no bearing on his choice to respond or not. In this case, the adult acted appropriately. Had he entertained their flirting, he would be the one acting inappropriately.
As the mom of a daughter, I would also want to discuss with her appropriate relationships and wonder why she was flirting with him, but like I said, completely separate issue.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 29, 2016 11:24:08 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning. The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd. He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all) Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
No, but those bitches flirted with anything hot. They probably thought it was all in fun and they were just playing, or at least I'd bet that's what they would have said. But just because they flirted does not give any guy a window to act on it, much less an adult.
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on Jul 29, 2016 11:25:36 GMT -5
There is a case that goes to trial today w a female teacher and male student. It was all over the national news when it broke and she was charged. Was discovered when the teen was bragging to friends if I recall. The brand new husband of the teacher has stuck by his wife even though she was sleeping w the kid before they got married and on the night of his bachelor party
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 11:25:56 GMT -5
I don't know. If you're coming from a household where there's already a lot of inappropriate behavior going on, the lines aren't quite as clear. Or lack of love, affection and acceptance... Yo can see the aching need in some children's eyes... They are the ones most likely to be targetted. Yeah, I was thinking that was me big time. My Dad was never in the picture and I was pretty much on my own from 1st grade as a latch key kid, mom was never home until well after dinner. Weekends my Mom left to stay at her boyfriends...who was a major asshole. Luckily, I preferred spending my time with my horses or alone reading or watching TV and not running amok, but I could have totally been sucked in by some of my teachers. I was just begging for them to give me attention of any kind.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 29, 2016 11:28:28 GMT -5
While I agree with the legal stance, it does not mean that some of these students aren't dangerous. Anyone remember this case?
Chism was 14 when Ritzer was killed and he was arrested. Chism killed Ritzer, 24, with a box cutter in a bathroom at Danvers High School on the afternoon of October 22, 2013, after classes had ended for the day. Ritzer's body was found later in woods near the school.
A jury in December found him guilty of first-degree murder, aggravated rape and armed robbery.
www.cnn.com/2016/02/26/us/massachusetts-teacher-killing-sentence/
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jul 29, 2016 11:30:43 GMT -5
It's the teachers fault.
Teenagers should know better and do know better. However, an adult should no better, and know this is their job and to not re cooperate the flirting or interactions that could lead them to something more. They need to shut it off before it even begins.
I guess I can see why a teenager may find the older person hot. But man? I look at kids in high school at my age now and they look so young. I don't understand how someone that is an adult can even find a young kid attractive to where they're even sexually attracted to them. They're not even complete adults yet! They're kids.
I guess in some ways, i'm the type of person that thinks age matters to a certain degree. Like a 15 year old with a 22 year old...just...different stages, it's wrong and a 15 year old just isn't fully grown or matured to an adult age yet. I guess once a person hits 21 I tend to think age isn't such a big deal but those teenage years... I just... >.>
A teenager shouldn't be with an adult in my honest opinion.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 29, 2016 11:37:11 GMT -5
I found older his hot when I was in high school. But when they hit on me I was like ew loser why can't you get a girl that doesn't has to ask mommy to leave the house. I was the only one. There was a 21 year old dude that dated like three girls in my large group. They all fawned and thought they were so special that a 21 year old was interested in them. I mean he could date someone older but he chose me. No one listened when I rolled my eyes and said yup 21 year old girls totes want to date someone not in school, barely has a pt job, and lives with his mom and drives a beat up car. He's totally passing up all these amazing she appropriate girls for you.
Teenagers are stupid. Girls are in a competition to be the best then and almost any attention is good attention.
I remember when everyone was fawning over Taylor Lautner, I was like 24 and was like yeah he's hot. Then heard he was 17 and was like ew I need to go take a shower now and every time I saw him after that my brain screamed ew kid (for quite a while after he turned legal too, I think I thought he was 17 until he turned 20 lol). That is what most, sane adults think.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 11:40:49 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning. The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd. He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all) Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
Him being married isn't the problem - it's the teacher part.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 11:45:24 GMT -5
I would have a problem with my teenage daughter flirting with 1) an adult, 2) a teacher (also an adult - but in a position of authority), and 3) with a married man (adult + crossing lines I don't agree with).
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jul 29, 2016 11:46:41 GMT -5
When I was in high school there was a teacher we all thought was super hot. He was 24 when I was 17. We thought we were mature, and pretty much adults. Any one of us definitely would have reciprocated had the opportunity been there. He never (to my knowledge) did anything inappropriate, so it never happened.
It's kind of like when Never Been Kissed came out. I was in high school, and so no problem with the story line at the time. Teacher falls in love with someone he thinks is a student, but it's fine because he's young and they 'get' each other. Watched it with the kids the other day and was super creeped out. Any way you look at it, he was out of line.
Teenagers aren't the little adults they may think they are.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 29, 2016 11:51:53 GMT -5
I would certainly not be happy with my daughter for sleeping with her teacher but she doesn't have the legal obligation NOT to sleep with her teacher. In my state it is illegal to have sex with a student. In my state, it doesn't even matter if the child is of legal age. It is called institutional sexual assault and will get you jail time.
A grown-ass adult shouldn't be having sex with a teenager regardless of how they met. But a teacher knows the law and deserves the punishment.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 29, 2016 11:59:32 GMT -5
My hs bio teacher was a pro baseball player who blew out his knee young. He was hot and young and into some of the bands and stuff us kids liked. He also was less of an authoritarian teacher and went with the flow as long as we were learning. The popular girls in my class loved him. Tried to flirt with him, at one point even said ya know when you stand like that you look like an underwear model. I could see he was uncomfortable with it, but he was able to deflect it without being to weird. I had chatted with him about classwork after class a few times and if I'm recalling correctly those girls were almost always the first he talked to...now that I'm an adult it's like duh he wanted those girls done and out while there still was a crowd. He handled them like an adult would. (His wife was gorgeous and he talked a ton about her so I doubt he was really tempted at all) Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
Lots of women flirt. And lots of times just being an outgoing person makes you look flirty (raises hand!). But flirting or perceived flirting is harmless.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 29, 2016 12:14:23 GMT -5
Good for the teacher.
Was it okay for the high school girls to flirt with a married teacher?
Lots of women flirt. And lots of times just being an outgoing person makes you look flirty (raises hand!). But flirting or perceived flirting is harmless. And people have hugely varying interpretations of what "flirting" is. In some cultures, showing a bare ankle is considered indecent temptation... Teenagers say and do really dumb things. It's part of how they mature and grow, by experimenting with what fits, what works, what gets a reaction. There is no amount of "flirting" (and it would be tough to get society to agree on a clear definition of what that actually is) by a teen that would justify an authority figure engaging in a sexual relationship with that teen. An adult - especially an adult who is an authority figure in a position of authority and influence over a minor - and even more so a teacher, who has received formal training on this issue has 100% of the responsibility if he or she chooses to engage in a sexual relationship with a minor. It's legally called "statutory rape" for a reason. Minors are not legally able to give consent in this situation because society recognizes that the power imbalance and vulnerable nature of still-developing kids makes true consent impossible. One of the other posters alluded to it, but I'll go ahead and state it bluntly. When you say that a teen girl's flirting caused this, you are flat out blaming her for her rape. Teenagers should be able to say dumb things without that being an excuse or justification for adults to prey on them, just like adults should be able to wear sexy clothing without a stranger raping them.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 29, 2016 15:03:49 GMT -5
I watched girls flirt with the younger male gym teacher all the time. The problem, IMO was not that they flirted it was that he flirted BACK. If he had not engaged eventually they would have gotten bored with the game. Instead he responded in kind. You can argue they should "know better" but when you got your gym teacher acting like a HS senior instead of the professional he is supposed to be it can be pretty hard to recognize that a line is being crossed. After all he's your "buddy". It's just playing around right? That's what you do with your buddies. He is taking on a role he has no business taking on. It is his job as the authority figure/professional to act like one which means you ignore the co-eds tittering about how hot you are. You don't go over there and start showing off your basketball moves. It's up to the ADULT in the situation to put a stop to it and act like the professional he is supposed to be. He has the maturity, life experience and as Miss T pointed out the LEGAL obligation to not engage in relations with his young female students.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 29, 2016 16:43:48 GMT -5
And there's nothing like misinterpreted cues.
I had an odd one. I used to like long distance bicycle rides when I was a teen (14, 15 years old). I had struck up a friendship with a junior high school teacher who was on a district wide field trip to France with a group of us (about 30) who liked long distance cycling.
I think we rode together for about a year (maybe once a month). I always told my parents where we were going and there was never any inappropriate behavior. But then I got a weird message from him that I should "find kids my own age to hang out with" and he told my mother that he thought I was falling in love with him.
WTF? He was not an attractive man. I rode with him because there weren't any kids who like riding 50+ mile bike rides (this was in the mid 70s before long distance biking really took off).
I definitely would have understood if someone had said it didn't look good. But thought it was a really weird way to handle the situation by blaming me.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 29, 2016 18:37:54 GMT -5
Where I live, there has been a case in the news this week where a substitute teacher has been fired and charged with statutory rape for a relationship with her student. In an interview aired on local television, she sees nothing wrong with their relationship and says it is still continuing despite the charges.
Think she will ever teach again?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 29, 2016 18:59:08 GMT -5
At my high school one of the assistant football coaches got caught with a cheerleader in the showers like two years before I was there. Huge scandal but she was 18 and they didn't have the rules like Miss Tequila mentioned. He was only a substitute then. I still had him as a substitute all through high school and he became interim head coach my senior year. They didn't give him the permanent job supposedly for that reason. He coached across the state for a couple years. He's back in the area now coaching a different high school.
The head football coach was tossed out at the beginning of my senior year. The county prosecutor had supposed allegations of inappropriate contact. Let me say I don't believe in victim blaming but the whole situation was very odd. No one could be found who'd corroborate the story who wasn't outside of the statute of limitations. Never ended up at trial and my friends who were current members of the team swore nothing happened. In any event whether it was deserved or not his life was ruined. Never taught again and never coached.
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