NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 28, 2016 10:22:58 GMT -5
There is SO MUCH coming from the Republican side that I wouldn't want to teach my daughters OR sons. They've gone completely off the deep end. I used to be a Republican. I think in a lot of ways I still am, but I can't back what it's become. You'll get no argument from me. Trump is the opposite of a good role model, but no one has claimed he ever was, but they do for Hillary because she happens to be a female. How is THAT not a double standard. You can not like Hillary as a person and still use he as an example to girls that the country has grown in the gender rights department far enough that we finally have a female presidential candidate that stands a decent chance of winning. You don't get it because you are a male. When you are told you can be anything you want to be there are ample examples in every profession INCLUDING presidents that you can draw from as inspiration. I am told I can be anything I want to be but I don't have ample examples to draw from as inspiration when it comes to certain professions. President of the United States is a big one. What is it with the fact that I am only allowed to be excited for the "right" female presidential candidate? When there are two men running I don't see how anyone argues that it's a "slap in the face to men" that Bush or Romeny or McCain or Trump or JFK or Lincoln or Jefferson or FDR (you get my drift) is running and how men shouldn't support them if they truly want a candidate that reflects them. But if I celebrate the fact Hillary has won a major party nomination for president I am somehow against women and not taking things seriously because if I wanted a proper woman candidate I would be outraged about Hillary. What exactly makes a proper women presidential candidate may I ask? Are those same standards applied to male candidates as well?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 10:29:52 GMT -5
You'll get no argument from me. Trump is the opposite of a good role model, but no one has claimed he ever was, but they do for Hillary because she happens to be a female. How is THAT not a double standard. I would like you to own your double standard. That its OK for Trump to be unworthy of being a good role model and yet its not OK for Hillary. Its OK for Trump to market his Christianity as if its real, but you want to care and doubt about Hillary's.
Don't worry about other people's double standards. You are advocating at least two in this very thread.
Fine,I'll own mine and you can own yours. You think Hillary is a role model because she's highly flawed candidate, but is a female so therefore is a role model. But trump is also a highly flawed candidate, but not a role model because he's a man. I think both are highly flawed candidates and neither should be considered role models. I guess i do expect more from Hillary. I expect more from trump. I won't apologize for expecting more from the people elected to represent me. It upsets me more than anything I've been put in this position where I have to choose between two people unfit for the office.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 28, 2016 10:31:28 GMT -5
You'll get no argument from me. Trump is the opposite of a good role model, but no one has claimed he ever was, but they do for Hillary because she happens to be a female. How is THAT not a double standard. You can not like Hillary as a person and still use he as an example to girls that the country has grown in the gender rights department far enough that we finally have a female presidential candidate that stands a decent chance of winning. You don't get it because you are a male. When you are told you can be anything you want to be there are ample examples in every profession INCLUDING presidents that you can draw from as inspiration. I am told I can be anything I want to be but I don't have ample examples to draw from as inspiration when it comes to certain professions. President of the United States is a big one. What is it with the fact that I am only allowed to be excited for the "right" female presidential candidate? When there are two men running I don't see how anyone argues that it's a "slap in the face to men" that Bush or Romeny or McCain or Trump or JFK or Lincoln or Jefferson or FDR (you get my drift) is running and how men shouldn't support them if they truly want a candidate that reflects them. But if I celebrate the fact Hillary has won a major party nomination for president I am somehow against women and not taking things seriously because if I wanted a proper woman candidate I would be outraged about Hillary. What exactly makes a proper women presidential candidate may I ask? Are those same standards applied to male candidates as well?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 28, 2016 10:37:47 GMT -5
I would like you to own your double standard. That its OK for Trump to be unworthy of being a good role model and yet its not OK for Hillary. Its OK for Trump to market his Christianity as if its real, but you want to care and doubt about Hillary's.
Don't worry about other people's double standards. You are advocating at least two in this very thread.
Fine,I'll own mine and you can own yours. You think Hillary is a role model because she's highly flawed candidate, but is a female so therefore is a role model. But trump is also a highly flawed candidate, but not a role model because he's a man. I think both are highly flawed candidates and neither should be considered role models. I guess i do expect more from Hillary. I expect more from trump. I won't apologize for expecting more from the people elected to represent me. It upsets me more than anything I've been put in this position where I have to choose between two people unfit for the office. *face palm* It's been explained many time in this thread that she is not a role model simply because she's a female. She's flawed, yes, but WE ALL ARE!!!! She is a role model for some because she is smart. Because she is accomplished. Because she is successful. Because she is tough. Because she is determined. Because she is resilient. Because she is ambitious and knows what she wants and will not apologize for it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 28, 2016 10:40:54 GMT -5
I would like you to own your double standard. That its OK for Trump to be unworthy of being a good role model and yet its not OK for Hillary. Its OK for Trump to market his Christianity as if its real, but you want to care and doubt about Hillary's.
Don't worry about other people's double standards. You are advocating at least two in this very thread.
Fine,I'll own mine and you can own yours. You think Hillary is a role model because she's highly flawed candidate, but is a female so therefore is a role model. But trump is also a highly flawed candidate, but not a role model because he's a man. I think both are highly flawed candidates and neither should be considered role models. I guess i do expect more from Hillary. I expect more from trump. I won't apologize for expecting more from the people elected to represent me. It upsets me more than anything I've been put in this position where I have to choose between two people unfit for the office. Actually I generally don't advocate for any role models. Its only because of you and Ratchets I even used that term. I think she's done amazing things. More than I knew. Being into role models is not my thing. At all.
So if you can point out where I've advocated using Hillary as a role model I'll delete it. Because I don't want anyone who is confused thinking I am saying something I am not. I posted what I did for those of you who want role models.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 28, 2016 10:45:40 GMT -5
I would like you to own your double standard. That its OK for Trump to be unworthy of being a good role model and yet its not OK for Hillary. Its OK for Trump to market his Christianity as if its real, but you want to care and doubt about Hillary's.
Don't worry about other people's double standards. You are advocating at least two in this very thread.
Fine,I'll own mine and you can own yours. You think Hillary is a role model because she's highly flawed candidate, but is a female so therefore is a role model. But trump is also a highly flawed candidate, but not a role model because he's a man. I think both are highly flawed candidates and neither should be considered role models. I guess i do expect more from Hillary. I expect more from trump. I won't apologize for expecting more from the people elected to represent me. It upsets me more than anything I've been put in this position where I have to choose between two people unfit for the office. Thank you. I was beginning to dislike you, . Until now, you were harping on Hillary's shortcomings alone. Yes, neither candidate is perfect, but, then, there has never been a perfect candidate IF we could even all agree on the definition of "perfect". Opinions are are like belly buttons: we all have one. But, the microscope lens we use on presidential candidates needs to be as highly tuned for one, as the other. I'm glad we can agree on that point, if nothing else.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 28, 2016 10:47:45 GMT -5
Hillary is a pretty piss poor role model for girls. Sticking with a man who abuses your trust for career and political gain. A known liar, and the "unethical but not technically illegal" mishandling of our nations secrets. Yeah, I bet everyone wants their daughter to be just like that. Why is a woman who sticks by her husband a piss poor role model? Hillary has her own political chops (that are comparable to Bill's) and none of us are in their marriage and know what is going on there. I wouldn't presume to know, and neither should you. Infidelity in a marriage is a difficult problem to overcome and the fact that they have found a way to work past this (regardless of reason) and manage to put on a good front is admirable. Many don't.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 28, 2016 10:54:06 GMT -5
Well, I'll take Trump, who will likely be a national security risk over Hillary, who we KNOW has been a national security risk. It just kills me when people make Hillary out to be the better choice in national security. Both are bad, but I'll take the "probably but maybe not" over the known and proven risk. It's also worth mentioning she was nominated by a party that specifically ran a biased and unethical primary. Is that also something you want to teach your daughters? So you think Trump, a serial cheater who moves onto the younger and prettier wife a better model than someone who has chosen to work on their marriage? WOW! Your values are phenomenally screwed. Trump cannot put together a coherent sentence to save his soul. There isn't a group, save white middle aged men, that he hasn't insulted. He screws over his vendors and investors, has a bunch of bankruptcies and has invited another country to hack into the federal government. Yeah.....great role model.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2016 10:58:13 GMT -5
Hillary is a pretty piss poor role model for girls. Sticking with a man who abuses your trust for career and political gain. A known liar, and the "unethical but not technically illegal" mishandling of our nations secrets. Yeah, I bet everyone wants their daughter to be just like that. Why is a woman who sticks by her husband a piss poor role model? Hillary has her own political chops (that are comparable to Bill's) and none of us are in their marriage and know what is going on there. I wouldn't presume to know, and neither should you. Infidelity in a marriage is a difficult problem to overcome and the fact that they have found a way to work past this (regardless of reason) and manage to put on a good front is admirable. Many don't. I agree with this. It has no bearing on her suitability to be come President. I've known 1 marriage that actually came out of infidelity stronger than ever because they both had to realize they played a part in the breakdown of their marriage. I've know a lot of marriages that couldn't survive it.
The only issue I have is listening to President Clinton extol the virtues of his wife and tell us all how very awesome she is, but she's evidently not awesome enough to not fuck around on. He put her through ten kinds of hell. Screw him and what he has to say. But she shouldn't have to pay the price for it or her decision to stick it out. That isn't right.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 28, 2016 11:00:11 GMT -5
Amen, Drama, amen. And let me add that Hillary has referenced her Christian faith often. Maybe she simply forgave Bill for his transgressions as her faith asks her to do. But, really, honestly, and truly -- why does it matter? Do we measure presidential performance by whether or not the person cuts people out of his/her life who f up? Because, IMHO, most of the presidential job description requires dealing with jerks across the globe. An effective president needs to be able to put aside a ton of other people's crap to get anything done. I mean, you can't just divorce another world leader like Trump dumps his wives. Personally I'm pretty skeptical she's really a Christian. But I generally try to avoid passing judgement on the faith of others because I don't know what's really in their hearts. But, it's probably a carefully crafted, self serving lie to get elected and increase her own personal wealth and power, just like everything else. Who cares? I identify as Christian only due to upbringing. I have not set foot in a church without it being an event, in years. That doesn't make me any less of a moral person.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 28, 2016 11:02:47 GMT -5
The only issue I have is listening to President Clinton extol the virtues of his wife and tell us all how very awesome she is, but she's evidently not awesome enough to not fuck around on.
For all we know she's had her own dalliances over the years but she was smart enough to pick people who wouldn't run to the press.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 28, 2016 11:03:10 GMT -5
Hillary is a pretty piss poor role model for girls. Sticking with a man who abuses your trust for career and political gain. A known liar, and the "unethical but not technically illegal" mishandling of our nations secrets. Yeah, I bet everyone wants their daughter to be just like that. If I had a daughter who turned out like Hillary Clinton I'd be as proud as hell. Someone who went to college, went to law school, managed to support herself, and raised what seems to be a lovely kind daughter? To me that would be fantastic.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 28, 2016 11:03:23 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2016 11:03:56 GMT -5
The only issue I have is listening to President Clinton extol the virtues of his wife and tell us all how very awesome she is, but she's evidently not awesome enough to not fuck around on.
For all we know she's had her own dalliances over the years but she was smart enough to pick people who wouldn't run to the press. Could be! Men don't usually save semen-stained dresses for years, so I guess that's a good thing!
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 28, 2016 11:18:54 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word. Hillary is not perfect by any stretch, but at least I feel fairly confident that she's not going to nuke some other country because they pissed her off on Twitter. And I can't say that for her opponent. And I do think it's a little sad that in order for a woman to get to this point, that she's had to build a resume so strong that no one can deny she's qualified.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 11:21:34 GMT -5
Fine,I'll own mine and you can own yours. You think Hillary is a role model because she's highly flawed candidate, but is a female so therefore is a role model. But trump is also a highly flawed candidate, but not a role model because he's a man. I think both are highly flawed candidates and neither should be considered role models. I guess i do expect more from Hillary. I expect more from trump. I won't apologize for expecting more from the people elected to represent me. It upsets me more than anything I've been put in this position where I have to choose between two people unfit for the office. Thank you. I was beginning to dislike you, . Until now, you were harping on Hillary's shortcomings alone. Yes, neither candidate is perfect, but, then, there has never been a perfect candidate IF we could even all agree on the definition of "perfect". Opinions are are like belly buttons: we all have one. But, the microscope lens we use on presidential candidates needs to be as highly tuned for one, as the other. I'm glad we can agree on that point, if nothing else. That's ok, I know my opinions aren't popular and I'm not well liked around here. At the end of the day, I'll stand up for what I think is right, even if I stand alone.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 11:26:13 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word. Hillary is not perfect by any stretch, but at least I feel fairly confident that she's not going to nuke some other country because they pissed her off on Twitter. And I can't say that for her opponent. And I do think it's a little sad that in order for a woman to get to this point, that she's had to build a resume so strong that no one can deny she's qualified. It's not her resume that bothers me. It's her integrity.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2016 11:27:12 GMT -5
Thank you. I was beginning to dislike you, . Until now, you were harping on Hillary's shortcomings alone. Yes, neither candidate is perfect, but, then, there has never been a perfect candidate IF we could even all agree on the definition of "perfect". Opinions are are like belly buttons: we all have one. But, the microscope lens we use on presidential candidates needs to be as highly tuned for one, as the other. I'm glad we can agree on that point, if nothing else. That's ok, I know my opinions aren't popular and I'm not well liked around here. At the end of the day, I'll stand up for what I think is right, even if I stand alone. Well....it's not a popularity contest so I don't worry about who "likes" me and who doesn't. I learn a great deal from people here. In fact, I'm looking for a thread that was back awhile ago, where I've decided I was totally wrong after some thinking. Even people I wouldn't hang out with in real life make me think. That's a good thing. Still...I'll state my opinion, such as:
In my opinion, "any woman is ok" is as bad as "no woman is ok".
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 28, 2016 11:31:30 GMT -5
I don't even know where to start with that, Phoenix. wow.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 28, 2016 11:32:19 GMT -5
Hillary is not perfect by any stretch, but at least I feel fairly confident that she's not going to nuke some other country because they pissed her off on Twitter. And I can't say that for her opponent. And I do think it's a little sad that in order for a woman to get to this point, that she's had to build a resume so strong that no one can deny she's qualified. It's not her resume that bothers me. It's her integrity. Are you going to explain this comment you made the other day on this thread about Hillary Clinton? I asked you what you meant by it but no response from you: "Or rather, it might be more accurate to say the first person to identify as a woman, as such things are open to interpretation nowdays."
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 11:32:20 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word. Well, I'd rather vote egotistical, serial divorcee than a lying, manipulative, careless, morally bankrupt, self serving "it's not technically illegal" hag.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 28, 2016 11:33:27 GMT -5
Hillary is not perfect by any stretch, but at least I feel fairly confident that she's not going to nuke some other country because they pissed her off on Twitter. And I can't say that for her opponent. And I do think it's a little sad that in order for a woman to get to this point, that she's had to build a resume so strong that no one can deny she's qualified. It's not her resume that bothers me. It's her integrity. And Trump has integrity? She has issues, as I've stated, but I don't believe she's really any different than any other politician.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 28, 2016 11:33:27 GMT -5
Hillary is not perfect by any stretch, but at least I feel fairly confident that she's not going to nuke some other country because they pissed her off on Twitter. And I can't say that for her opponent. And I do think it's a little sad that in order for a woman to get to this point, that she's had to build a resume so strong that no one can deny she's qualified. It's not her resume that bothers me. It's her integrity. Her integrity is in question, but Trump's is not? Trump has made a business out of screwing the little person, the person without resources to fight his wealth, and you think that this is admirable? Wow! Hillary is not without fault, but I trust her more to do what is right for the US than Trump. Trump scares the ever loving shit out of me in the political mess he could get us in. He opens his mouth without thinking, shoots from the hip, and lies about it. However, in the time of digital recordings, his lies are recorded for posterity. And that's integrity. Right.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 11:34:52 GMT -5
I don't even know where to start with that, Phoenix. wow. Just saying that I know my opinions aren't popular and I know some posters may dislike me for them. Personally I don't take differences in opinion personally, but I know many do.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 28, 2016 11:35:23 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word. Well, I'd rather vote egotistical, serial divorcee than a lying, manipulative, careless, morally bankrupt, self serving "it's not technically illegal" hag. And that is the sexism that she is facing. That it's okay to call her a hag.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 28, 2016 11:35:40 GMT -5
I'd rather vote for a woman who has a legitimate public service resume a mile long and who stuck with her wandering husband than a racist, misogynistic, serial divorce' with an ego taller than any Trump tower who won't release his tax returns and who thinks "bigly" is a real word. Well, I'd rather vote egotistical, serial divorcee than a lying, manipulative, careless, morally bankrupt, self serving "it's not technically illegal" hag. Look at the words you applied to Hillary.....lying, manipulative, morally bankrupt, careless, self serving. I would say they fit Trump better. And hag is downright mean. That is something Trump would say....and I don't think he is an admirable person.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 28, 2016 11:39:30 GMT -5
Calling someone a "hag" is uncalled for. The other words - they are character flaws shared by both candidates equally - but the other is out of line.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 28, 2016 11:39:53 GMT -5
Interesting that Hillary gets so many more adjectives in that sentence when every single one of them would fit in front of Trump's name as well.
Yet you don't seem to be worried about Trump's effect as a poor role model, or that we'll soon have a whole generation of Trump clones running around.
Why is that?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jul 28, 2016 11:40:04 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if someone likes Clinton or not.
It matters because FINALLY a woman has been nominated and has a real chance at becoming President. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if people don't like her. It finally shows woman.. the good and the bad woman of the world that they can become the President of the united states. Woman have had so many obstacles to over come in the work force. They've been told they can be anything they want to be but so many jobs for so many years truly haven't been available to them.
It doesn't matter if you like Clinton or not she is a woman that has made it the furthest to becoming President of the United States and it's about time some woman has. It just goes to show woman finally have that chance...they finally have that chance whereas it's always been a man that has been a President.
Maybe she isn't the perfect idea President but in m opinion neither is Trump. The reason why this is a big deal is because FINALLY a woman has the chance to become President. Finally woman and young girls every where can reach for something like President and TRULY have a fighting chance.
1920. Nearly 100 years ago woman were JUST gaining the right to vote. And the battle for woman's rights didn't stop there. For years after that woman had to fight for the right to work.
This. This is HUGE.
It doesn't matter if you don't like Clinton. This is a huge thing for the United States. And it's ABOUT TIME it has happened. It's about time that the United States starts to recognize we don't need a male leader and a woman is just as qualified to run as a man.
It may not be Clinton as the woman that's qualified but woman can be qualified.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 28, 2016 11:42:27 GMT -5
Well, I'd rather vote egotistical, serial divorcee than a lying, manipulative, careless, morally bankrupt, self serving "it's not technically illegal" hag. And that is the sexism that she is facing. That it's okay to call her a hag. Trump has been called every name under the sun, should Hillary be given a pass because she's a woman?
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