Breaking News! Nice France 80 dead

[gregintenn]

Jul 15, 2016 15:02:17 GMT -5 dondub said:

Not by anyone that he ran over.

I just don't know how to argue with idiocy.

[dondub]

Don't talk to yourself anymore.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 15, 2016 14:02:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Latest news I heard on him is that he may not be a "terrorist" at all. Just a depressed and suicidal jerk who may have wanted to go out in a blaze of "glory".

But, who knows?  It takes time after these horrific events to get the true story, or the full story.

this is the possibility that i suggested was worth considering.

several posters chided me for it.

gird yourself. 

[gregintenn]

Jul 15, 2016 15:18:55 GMT -5 dondub said:

Don't talk to yourself anymore.

Again, if you wish to address me, would you please do so in an adult fashion?

[dondub]

I always do.

[gregintenn]

A different terrorist attack in France for those of you keeping score, but here's a bit of interesting reading about a few of the "religion of peace" practitioners.

heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/

[Spellbound454]

It might be true
Europeans, including us in the UK, wouldn't really report the gory details
out of respect for the families, dignity for the victims and public decency.
No conspiracy.....Its just not something they would dwell on.

Looks like a military Coup happening in Turkey...again
Goodness knows what is going on there.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 15, 2016 14:49:43 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Jul 15, 2016 13:57:18 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

A gun isn't going to save anyone from a maniac in a semi truck.

It's a million-to-one odds you'd actually hit the guy. My guess is that somebody standing at ground level couldn't see anything more than the top of his head, let alone score a lethal shot as he speeds by through stampeding people.

People have to accept the fact that an attack of this nature isn't preventable. With gun-based massacres, people can at least cling to the hope that if the guns are outlawed, the attacks will stop, but we don't have that luxury here. This guy wasn't on any terror watch list. He rented what is normally a perfectly harmless tool: a truck. He killed 84 people and injured hundreds more, and there isn't a bloody thing anybody could have done to stop him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reports I heard stated the guy was SHOT and killed.

Yeah. By a legion of police after he stopped the truck and started shooting people.

That's not quite what I meant.

[dondub]

I didn't think so. Thanks for clarifying for those that might have misunderstood.

[Tennesseer]

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

[jkapp]

Jul 15, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

www.kcci.com/national/isis-claims-responsibility-for-attack-in-nice/40740276

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in Nice

No known links to terror...I think this screams just how incompentent the "intelligence" agencies are these days...

[Tennesseer]

Jul 16, 2016 7:46:19 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jul 15, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

www.kcci.com/national/isis-claims-responsibility-for-attack-in-nice/40740276

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in Nice

No known links to terror...I think this screams just how incompentent the "intelligence" agencies are these days...

You do realize any group can claim responsibility but it doesn't mean it's true, yes? Hell, the D.A.R. could claim this guy was sympathetic to their cause too. A claim means nothing unless authorities can find a link associating the perp with any given group.

Just because French authorities cannot find any link at this time does not mean they are incompetent. What you think does not make it true.

[Value Buy]

Jul 15, 2016 14:47:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 15, 2016 14:02:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Latest news I heard on him is that he may not be a "terrorist" at all. Just a depressed and suicidal jerk who may have wanted to go out in a blaze of "glory".

But, who knows?  It takes time after these horrific events to get the true story, or the full story.

This is what I am leaning to believing unless other evidence comes to light. Some men are unreasoning aholes when their feelings are deeply hurt. They will kill their entire family and are quite well known for murdering women they said they used to love.

  This is obviously the worst case I have ever heard about, but I think its revealing that a Muslim woman in a veil was the first one killed. I read the Wiki page on Tunisia. It is predominately Muslim. Its very common with men who make their anger manifest as violence on others, to use people as doppelgangers for the ones they are angry at.

France admits to a ten percent Muslim population, and who know what the actual count is.
It is not surprising Muslims were killed. We all know Muslim extremists are welling to kill any and all people.
They are an equal opportunity killing machine.

[billisonboard]

Jul 16, 2016 7:46:19 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jul 15, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

www.kcci.com/national/isis-claims-responsibility-for-attack-in-nice/40740276

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in Nice

No known links to terror...I think this screams just how incompentent the "intelligence" agencies are these days...

Here is a link to a more than two paragragh story on the issue: www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/world/europe/isis-nice-france-attack.html?_r=0

[Value Buy]

If you are a white man and have a gun, you get tagged as a Christian whether you have attended church since Vacation Bible study days by the left.
Let's not change the rules for tagging Islamic extremists.

He could not control his wife.
She was/is divorcing him?
He could not handle the disgrace, etc etc.

[billisonboard]

Jul 16, 2016 9:14:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If you are a white man and have a gun, you get tagged as a Christian whether you have attended church since Vacation Bible study days by the left.
Let's not change the rules for tagging Islamic extremists.

He could not control his wife.
She was/is divorcing him?
He could not handle the disgrace, etc etc.

It is too early to make definitive pronouncements but it appears you are correct in identifying the thing that pushed him over the edge. No evidence yet that it was motivated by extremist religious doctrine. To label this person as an "Islamic extremist" you would have to accept the labeling of all marginally Christian killers as "Christian extremists" to not change the rules.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 15, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

Residents in his former apartment building on a hill overlooking the city said they had never seen him at the local mosque and never heard him mention religion.

Indeed, they said he rarely spoke at all and seemed to be in a permanent haze of anger, particularly after his marriage fell apart.

Samir Boufet, an 18-year-old resident in the building, remembered him as a “big guy who clearly had lots of problems. He never spoke with anyone.”

A friend of Mr. Boufet’s, who gave his name as Walid Ben, said Mr. Bouhlel had a reputation in the neighborhood as a wife beater and always seemed in a foul mood.

seems like your classic career sociopath to me.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2016 13:54:46 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I would of simply tried to shoot him from a standoff distance, but I don't go into gun free zones.

He was shot dead.

Its difficult to stop this kind of lone wolf attack.
ISIS are losing and they have instructed their admirers to kill as many westerners as they can.

So guns do work.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2016 13:57:18 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 15, 2016 13:45:50 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I would of simply tried to shoot him from a standoff distance, but I don't go into gun free zones.  Too dangerous.  There is also the chance I might of killed someone with the crossfire.  I guess I'm not brave enough to be in that situation.  I can feel their pain, but will leave the French to their own safety decisions. 

A gun isn't going to save anyone from a maniac in a semi truck.

It's a million-to-one odds you'd actually hit the guy. My guess is that somebody standing at ground level couldn't see anything more than the top of his head, let alone score a lethal shot as he speeds by through stampeding people.

People have to accept the fact that an attack of this nature isn't preventable. With gun-based massacres, people can at least cling to the hope that if the guns are outlawed, the attacks will stop, but we don't have that luxury here. This guy wasn't on any terror watch list. He rented what is normally a perfectly harmless tool: a truck. He killed 84 people and injured hundreds more, and there isn't a bloody thing anybody could have done to stop him.

And yet that is exactly what stopped him.  Far less than million to one odds for some one who fires about 100 rounds a week at moving targets for practice/recreation.    Any perfectly harmless tool can become a weapon when used as such.  I'm now waiting for the gun control people who ridiculed me a while back during the EVT/fishy gun control threads when I brought up using vehicles for attacks and was told "you can't kill that many people with a vehicle" as an assault weapon, besides "they're just transportation".

[Tennesseer]

Jul 15, 2016 16:11:15 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

A different terrorist attack in France for those of you keeping score, but here's a bit of interesting reading about a few of the "religion of peace" practitioners.

heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/

Bataclan Torture Coverup
After the Bastille Day attack in Nice, news outlets rehashed debunked claims that France actively covered up horrifying details of torture at the Bataclan in November 2015 attacks.

CLAIM: France deliberately suppressed information about torture and mutilation at the Bataclan in November 2015 to avoid upsetting Muslims.

FALSE

Bataclan Torture Coverup

[Peace Of Mind]

Jul 16, 2016 7:46:19 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jul 15, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It appears the killer had no known links or connections with terrorist groups.  Just an angry young man who hated the world.


A Surly Misfit With No Terror Links Turned a Truck Into a Tank

www.kcci.com/national/isis-claims-responsibility-for-attack-in-nice/40740276

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in Nice

No known links to terror...I think this screams just how incompentent the "intelligence" agencies are these days...

Ahhhh, perspective.  It's an amazing thing. 

I think this screams how weak ISIS has become that they have to make claims on everything that happens around the world that doesn't involve them in any way. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 16, 2016 13:20:38 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Jul 16, 2016 7:46:19 GMT -5 jkapp said:

www.kcci.com/national/isis-claims-responsibility-for-attack-in-nice/40740276

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in Nice

No known links to terror...I think this screams just how incompentent the "intelligence" agencies are these days...

Ahhhh, perspective.  It's an amazing thing. 

I think this screams how weak ISIS has become that they have to make claims on everything that happens around the world that doesn't involve them in any way. 

The most recent intelligence is that this fellow was indeed ISIS-committed. "Radicalized very rapidly," in newsspeak.

[Value Buy]

Jul 17, 2016 12:03:55 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 16, 2016 13:20:38 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Ahhhh, perspective.  It's an amazing thing. 

I think this screams how weak ISIS has become that they have to make claims on everything that happens around the world that doesn't involve them in any way. 

The most recent intelligence is that this fellow was indeed ISIS-committed. "Radicalized very rapidly," in newsspeak.

He probably decided to go the Virgin route in the After life, since his wife cut im off.

[djAdvocate]

maybe we should stop accepting claims that ISIS is responsible.  after all, if anyone can be "rapidly radicalized" without even speaking to them, then how meaningful is the claim?

[Value Buy]

Jul 17, 2016 15:53:07 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

maybe we should stop accepting claims that ISIS is responsible.  after all, if anyone can be "rapidly radicalized" without even speaking to them, then how meaningful is the claim?

I assume this means when ISIS publicly encouraged everyone to do their own personal attacks and they do, since they were not officially a member of ISIS and under their direct control, we cannot officially categorize it as an ISIS inspired attack.

And yet our own Government warns us about radicalized people here in the states who are not actually ISIS members who do attack us based on visiting ISIS websites.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 17, 2016 16:01:53 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 17, 2016 15:53:07 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

maybe we should stop accepting claims that ISIS is responsible.  after all, if anyone can be "rapidly radicalized" without even speaking to them, then how meaningful is the claim?

I assume this means when ISIS publicly encouraged everyone to do their own personal attacks and they do, since they were not officially a member of ISIS and under their direct control, we cannot officially categorize it as an ISIS inspired attack.

And yet our own Government warns us about radicalized people here in the states who are not actually ISIS members who do attack us based on visiting ISIS websites.

no, what this means is that any asshole with a gripe can claim to be ISIS, so how meaningful is that claim?

[djAdvocate]

VB- are you familiar with the Anarchist's Cookbook?

[Value Buy]

Jul 17, 2016 16:27:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

VB- are you familiar with the Anarchist's Cookbook?

I have not read it, but do remember the gist of it.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 17, 2016 16:33:38 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 17, 2016 16:27:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

VB- are you familiar with the Anarchist's Cookbook?

I have not read it, but do remember the gist of it.

at least theoretically, that book can be blamed for a good deal of domestic terrorism in the last 45 years.

but what does that MEAN?  i mean, the information is out there.

we can blame all sorts of things for what happens.  but if it is true that a person can become "rapidly radicalized" by INFORMATION that is out there, what is the fix for that?  are you suggesting that we ban information?  how do you propose to do that?  and if not, then is the INFORMATION really responsible for anything?

there is a great lyric by the band Gong: "money is innocent".  it is a good thing to remember, for all of those folks that say that money is the root of all evil.  the root of all evil is evil people, their evil thoughts, and their evil ambitions.  money is merely a medium of exchange.  much like information.

am i claiming ISIS is innocent?  of course not.  but if we are going to give them credit when someone merely assimilates their INFORMATION, that is a hell of a lot of power we are granting them.  who does that benefit?  ISIS, imo.  nobody else.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 17, 2016 15:53:07 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

maybe we should stop accepting claims that ISIS is responsible.  after all, if anyone can be "rapidly radicalized" without even speaking to them, then how meaningful is the claim?

To be honest, I'm just parroting what I heard on the news Saturday evening. It was something to the effect that French officials were acknowledging ISIS' involvement and that this individual had been "rapidly radicalized".

I don't know whether that means he decided to carry out the attack in the name of ISIS, or he visited their sites for a few weeks and was "inspired", or he met with agents who helped him set up the attack, or even if the "French officials" were reliable sources.

If I had to guess, "rapidly radicalized" means that he found himself in a dark place, hating humanity, possibly went on line seeking something, found ISIS rhetoric, decided that killing as many people as he could for a shot at paradise was a better plan than simply putting a gun to his head, and took the necessary steps to make his plan a reality. Possibly he was even demon-influenced or demon-possessed, I don't know.

In short, I don't believe ISIS was the "cause" of what he did per se, but I believe it's possible they had influence in directing his rage. That makes them involved and at least partly culpable.