Trustee executer

[raeoflyte]

I have somehow accidentally fooled older relatives into believing that I have the slightest ability to adult.  So much so that my Aunt and Uncle have asked me to finish adulting for them and asked if I would be their trustee executer...  

They don't have kids, and while there were definitely issues with them growing up, I had a ton of great years with my Aunt who took my horseback riding, and did drawing classes with me.  My point being that they are people I would want to help if/when possible.  

What do I need to be looking at to make sure this is something I could manage?  The bulk of the estate will be left to care for their horse.  They said that they would leave me a portion of the remaining estate and a smaller portion to another relative.  I expect they'll be around a good deal longer, and even at this point I don't need/expect money from them, but it is good to know there is likely to be enough to pay for my time which is what I would think would be a better way to go.  

I'll bring it up to my parents as well and get their input, but would love suggestions on what questions I need to ask and what do I need to do.  

[alabamagal]

Never been a trustee.  But is seems like all you need to be able to do is to read and understand what they want and be able to pay bills and track money, not much more than you would do for a normal household (pay utilities, pay taxes, reconcile checking account so that you know where money is going).

[alabamagal]

Of course the way you titled the thread means you are in charge of executing the Trustee......That is a totally different skill set.

[Blonde Granny]

I have no legal background, but I believe there is a big difference between being the trustee (of a Trust) and being an executor of an estate.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 14, 2016 10:10:59 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Of course the way you titled the thread means you are in charge of executing the Trustee......That is a totally different skill set.

LOL!  Let's hope I don't learn that skill set.  

[raeoflyte]

Jul 14, 2016 10:09:03 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Never been a trustee.  But is seems like all you need to be able to do is to read and understand what they want and be able to pay bills and track money, not much more than you would do for a normal household (pay utilities, pay taxes, reconcile checking account so that you know where money is going).

That I can do!  

I'd need to sell their house(s).  What if everything were upside down and the estate was out of money?  Any ideas on how I would have to deal with that?  

[milee]

This could be a simple thing or it could be an all-consuming-run-your-life-for-years-thing.  The devil is in the details.

Tread cautiously.  Here are some examples of the types of things you want to know before making a decision:

-  How old is the horse and what shape is it in?  Does it currently live in a place that provides full board and care or would you be expected to provide that care or find such a place?  If you'd be expected to find such a place, how far from your house are places like that located and how much do they cost?
-  Do the assets in the trust appear sufficient to cover the care - including future vet bills - of a horse?  Horses can be very expensive.  Would you have the knowledge you need to either care for it or oversee hiring out that care?
-  How liquid are the assets in the trust?  You mentioned that you'd need to sell two houses - that's a lot of work and depending on the houses' location and condition, can take a lot of time.  Is there also cash in the trust to cover the horse's care while the houses are being sold?  How much hassle will it be to sell any other assets in the estate?
-  What are the family dynamics here?  Will anyone else be upset they didn't inherit anything?  Will others resent you "inheriting something" (even though it's to cover your time spent doing all this)?
Realistically, how many hours will this take?  You'll not only have the horse care (or overseeing the horse care) to think about, you'll have to think about all the legal work.  This time can add up.  Be realistic.  There will also be time required to handle things you didn't think about.. it will take longer than you guess it will.  Bottom line - don't take this on for a small amount of money.

I'm a CPA so am sometimes asked by family members to be an executor.  After looking at the details, I've always said "no."  Either the situation would have required huge amounts of my time or would create uncomfortable family dynamics, so weren't something I wanted to be involved in.  It's OK to say no.

[milee]

Jul 14, 2016 11:14:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 14, 2016 10:09:03 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Never been a trustee.  But is seems like all you need to be able to do is to read and understand what they want and be able to pay bills and track money, not much more than you would do for a normal household (pay utilities, pay taxes, reconcile checking account so that you know where money is going).

That I can do!  

I'd need to sell their house(s).  What if everything were upside down and the estate was out of money?  Any ideas on how I would have to deal with that?  

See, that's a great example of how you can easily get into a nasty situation.  You'd be the one that would be in charge of making sure all that was handled - including rehoming the horse (not an easy task.)

[swamp]

DH has been named trustee for his mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenic) cousin. We aren't looking forward to that. He has also fooled his relatives that he can successfully adult.

[mollyanna58]

Jul 14, 2016 12:36:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

DH has been named trustee for his mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenic) cousin. We aren't looking forward to that. He has also fooled his relatives that he can successfully adult.

"He" meaning your DH or his cousin?

[kittensaver]

Jul 14, 2016 12:36:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

DH has been named trustee for his mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenic) cousin. We aren't looking forward to that. He has also fooled his relatives that he can successfully adult.

Clearly I'm not your DH    , but this is me.

It's heartbreaking to watch him cycle around the streets/the hospital/jail, but he just seems to want (or on a karmic level, need) to do it.

But managing his Special Needs Trust is not all that difficult. Time consuming at times yes - but not difficult. Make purchase decisions, pay bills, keep an eye on the investments, write an annual update-report to the attorney and get the taxes done. My aunt sold the house before she died and put most all of the proceeds into the bank; Because the amounts exceeded the FDIC insurance limits, I diversified that cash. After some investment consultations I've now got everything into a handful of assorted accounts that I keep an eye on (I do a quarterly review of the statements).

In my state, Trustees are permitted to take .75% (three-quarters of one percent) of the Trust assets every year as a professional fee. Often professional Trustees (like banks) will take more, but they require you to sign an acknowledgement that they are taking more than what the law allows - and if you don't sign for a higher fee they will not take you on as a client. And many professional Trustees will not take Trusts under a certain dollar amount. Many start at half a million or a million in assets and go up from there . . .

As long as the Trust has sufficient assets/cash in it to pay someone to care for the horse (a boarding stable, a farmer, a rancher?), I see no financial reason why the OP wouldn't do this for her relatives (but of course there might be personal reasons or unhealthy relationship dynamics that might stop her). Clearly there's payment in it for her (unless the Trust is not sufficiently large for what the couple is asking). It's a comfort to know that someone will be there for the animal you love when you are gone. I too had a complicated and sometimes not entirely loving connection to my aunt (my blood uncle's wife), but I will do this for their only child . I know she died in peace knowing I would look after him.

OP - please feel free to respond here or PM me if there are any questions I can answer for you. 

[milee]

Kittensaver, it's because of nice, giving people like you that these things often do work out.  I would point out, though, that there is another difference in that you do not have children at home, correct?  You can decide how to spend your time without it impacting any of your children or pushing off your household work to your spouse.

Rae has two small children, one of whom has significant health challenges.  I'm guessing her "free" time is nonexistent.  She probably can't remember the last time she had a spare hour.  So whatever time she spends on this is going to be an hour she's not spending with her kids or an hour of work at home that she's not doing so her spouse will have to take on.  

It's a very, very different equation when there are two small kids at home.  Not to be crass, but I'm guessing if Rae has to devote even the (relatively) small amount of time to it that you are describing, it would only make sense if it's a net gain to her family at least from the financial standpoint.  When her kids are older, it may be different.

[kittensaver]

Jul 14, 2016 13:22:18 GMT -5 milee said:

Kittensaver, it's because of nice, giving people like you that these things often do work out.  I would point out, though, that there is another difference in that you do not have children at home, correct?  You can decide how to spend your time without it impacting any of your children or pushing off your household work to your spouse.

Rae has two small children, one of whom has significant health challenges.  I'm guessing her "free" time is nonexistent.  She probably can't remember the last time she had a spare hour.  So whatever time she spends on this is going to be an hour she's not spending with her kids or an hour of work at home that she's not doing so her spouse will have to take on.  

It's a very, very different equation when there are two small kids at home.  Not to be crass, but I'm guessing if Rae has to devote even the (relatively) small amount of time to it that you are describing, it would only make sense if it's a net gain to her family at least from the financial standpoint.  When her kids are older, it may be different.

You are - as usual  - correct.

There is a financial component here, and a personal one. Clearly the OP will have to weigh both of those factors in her personal situation.

Of course depending on a lot of moving parts - if the assets/cash in the Trust is sufficient she could take this on without it being a financial burden to her. The Trust should be written to allow her to consult with (and pay) for professional financial and legal advice. If so, she can hire experts to help her (I did). Once she takes over the assets and arranges them to suit her (based on Trust instructions, of course), it COULD simply be a matter of writing a check to the horse custodian every month.

Or not . . . she needs to ask questions about what they expect. If this Trust is too small for a professional manager to be willing to take it on, they may NEED to have a family member take it. Then I would be careful that I would not get stuck in an untenable financial situation.

And you are correct - my girls are grown and gone. I had one still in college when I took on the Trust. But once the initial work is done, it settles into a rhythm that is not too burdensome. But clearly only the OP can decide how much she is willing to take on. I was just hoping to put her mind a little at ease about the financial part, if that makes sense.

[Peace Of Mind]

Jul 14, 2016 11:14:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 14, 2016 10:09:03 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Never been a trustee.  But is seems like all you need to be able to do is to read and understand what they want and be able to pay bills and track money, not much more than you would do for a normal household (pay utilities, pay taxes, reconcile checking account so that you know where money is going).

That I can do!  

I'd need to sell their house(s).  What if everything were upside down and the estate was out of money?  Any ideas on how I would have to deal with that?  

You can google the laws for your state but if that's the case you usually don't have to do anything.  You can let the house go back to the mortgage co. and if there is no money in the trust technically there would be nothing to trust.  But you'd have to rehome the horse or find a place that will take them like an animal sanctuary.  If you can afford it and love the horse you can pay for their care yourself (which is what I'd do because I LOVE horses and most animals) but you wouldn't have to do that.

The trust I have set up there is also POA and Living Will where the person I appointed can make medical decisions on my behalf if I, or DH is unable to do so.  Make sure you get those too.  Ours is just one piece of paper for each that you can fill out your personal choices and  you can give copies to your doctors/hospital, etc.  (I don't want to be kept on life support, etc. if brain dead or not able to be a full functioning human).  I'm not sure how she'll notice the difference though from how I am now so it's in a safe and she'll have to go to a neighbor's for our keys - just in case she gets any ideas. 

[swamp]

Jul 14, 2016 12:40:47 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Jul 14, 2016 12:36:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

DH has been named trustee for his mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenic) cousin. We aren't looking forward to that. He has also fooled his relatives that he can successfully adult.

"He" meaning your DH or his cousin?

DH.

[busymom]

Ugh! Since I'm smack dab in the middle of dealing with Mom's estate, I would suggest unless you REALLY love these two, "Run, Forrest Run!". This is taking up much more of my time than I ever imagined. (And, I'm thankful one of DH's siblings gets to run the show, when that time comes with his parents.) Unless you can afford to hire others to do most of the dirty work, this isn't a "10 minutes here, 10 minutes there" type of a job. Assuming of course, that you plan to do things properly...

The biggest party I get to spend time on right now is the family home.  Took months (years, actually, since I began work on it before Mom passed) to clean it out, then, because it's located in a major city, there are a bunch of things the house must have done to it before it can be legally sold.  Permits, inspections, dealing with contractors, and rarely does anyone show up on time.  Survived that, & now the selling market has gone soft for houses, so I have to seriously look at renting it out, which means more repairs, inspections, dealing with contractors.    Maybe the biggest gift older relatives can give us, is to sell the house, & live in a rental before they pass on-? 

[TheOtherMe]

We are so glad that mom and dad sold their house before they moved here 3 years ago.  The cleaning out mostly took place then. 

When dad goes, we will have 30 days to clean out his apartment.  It isn't large enough to hold what the house did and he isn't in to accumulating things.  He won't even buy new clothes!

All bank accounts are in joint tenancy--dad, sister and me.  We inherit his IRA and are the beneficiaries on his life insurance.

Sister is executor and she can have it.

My parents did give us the gift of selling their house.

[janee]

I guess DH and I are considered the "responsible" ones in our family.  Between us we have 8 siblings. We were the executors for our parents' estates. For every one of our siblings we are either the guardians for their children or the ones to decide on pulling the plug!  That always cracked me up, we're good to be guardians to little kids, but just hard-hearted enough to pull the plug! 

In your case, I wouldn't go ahead if the estate is insolvent.  And, you need to have a frank discussion on expectations and see if it fits in with your available time.  If they are the type of people who will bug you for every little thing, you may not have the time.

Good luck with the decision!

[raeoflyte]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions! This gives me such a better understanding of what to ask and where to start.

I really do expect my Aunt and Uncle to be around for another 10-20+ years in all likelihood and it's impossible to predict where things will be in the future. They're incredibly financially prudent people, so the chances of them being in debt are unlikely, and they knew when they got this horse that he was likely to outlive them and they wouldn't do that if they didn't feel like they could provide for it. My grandparents spent well into 7 figures on assisted living and skilled nursing care over the last 9 years of their lives, so I know how quickly money can go too.

That is another question I should ask as far as when I would be involved. As morbid as it sounds, after death means a finite amount of time and work. But even if I'm not involved in their estate at all, I couldn't not help at least some if they end up in an assisted living situation. There are some great places out there, but to really get the care you need, you need an advocate outside of the facility.

The horse piece stresses me out the least. If the estate had no money and I can afford it, we would care for it. If we couldn't afford it, we would make we found a rescue or as a last resort humanely euthanized to make sure it never suffered.

[kittensaver]

Good luck raeoflyte, whatever you decide.

[lund]

I think that you need to hear what the expectations are. If you can board the horse with "full service", or are expected to care for it yourself, or if a few weekly visits are sufficient, if you can chose where to board the horse (good places may go bad, you may move), and what to do when it gets old and sick.

You need to know if this means that you will be healthcare POA and financial POA too.


And your attitude about the horse makes me understand why they have asked you!