Condo owners past and present

[motherto2]

My DS is getting in the condo buying market, and I'm looking to find out any tips or tricks condo owners might have to help him out.  Things you wished you knew at the time, things you would have done differently, etc.  One no go for him is it must have laundry in the unit.  Any opinions on that vs. community laundry?  I think he's found that some other must haves need to be flexible like no higher than the second or third floor.  Parking is another issue for him.  Parking and the laundry are his two must haves.  Please give any advice or opinions you might have!

[wmpeon]

I chose a townhome, because a condo felt too much like apartment living for me.  Laundry in my home was also a must-have (no more shared laundry!) and parking was very important.  What I didn't expect, was how much I loved having an attached garage.  I thought it was a nice to have, however it's one of my favorite features and there is nothing like pulling right out of the garage in winter time, instead of wading into the snow and shoveling out my car.  I also have a pantry now, which is something I also enjoy having.

Features aside, I recommend he speak with others who live in the association to ask about the pluses and minuses living there.  Some HOAs are hell, mine is pretty good.  Also ask about assessments and rising costs of HOA fees.  It's expected costs will go up, but you'll want to avoid any place with sudden assessments and large increases in fees.  This is a sign the HOA doesn't manage their funds well.

[giramomma]

I loved it when we lived in a garden style condo. No shoveling, no lawn mowing..and our association covered the roof, siding, cleaning of common areas, and hot water heaters. Windows were the only thing that we needed to fix.

Prior to having your son make an offer he should , ask to review the association documents. We got a big bound book with all the rules and bylaws. 

I would also see if there's any restrictions on the number of units that can be rented. Ours didn't in the docs, but HOA didn't like it if more than 10% of the units were rentals. (Had we been more flush, I would have kept our condo as a rental unit and bought our current home. We needed the equity from our condo to make finances work).

You'll need to check about pets, if that's something he's interested in.

Also, we didn't really see our neighbors all that much, even though our condo was an old apartment complex. One of our neighbors worked part time in a larger city 3 hours away. Another one was a young guy. We always knew when he was going out because you could smell his cologne in the halls. I saw him like 3 times in 5 years. We saw the neighbors across from us fairly often, but no more than a couple times a week. And everything was soundproofed well, unlike some of our apartments.

Ultimately we went condo because we could get something nicer for the amount of money we had. We didn't have to completely redo a house that hadn't been updated since the 70s. One house we looked at started as a 2 bedroom, and then got added on to in piecemeal fashion. You could tell which rooms were the additions, because the floors were not level with the original house. We really also love our current location. There were no starter homes in our neighborhood. Since DH and I made less than 40K a year, we didn't think it was prudent to try to buy a 200-270K home.

[justme]

I just bought a condo almost a year ago. I had rented in the complex for five years before I bought though.

I think above all the HOA is the biggest thing. The rest means nothing if the HOA is crap. Make sure it has good reserves. Look into who runs it and how it's run. The rules. How often they have had assessments and options for paying that. What is they're responsibility vs yours for repair.

Won't matter how many other boxes it checked if your HOA sucks.

That said I always had to have in unit laundry even when I was renting. There's assigned parking that you own with your condo here and you can get others that park there towed. First floor has good and bad, the part that pisses me off the most is how many more bugs I get vs when I was on the fourth floor. There's also building quirks and defects that are annoying as hell, but I knew about most of them due to living here before I bought.

[chiver78]

definitely ask about reserves. ask about special assessments (amounts, frequency) as well. the condo I just sold, the HOA had never required a special assessment in over 20 years, b/c the reserves were so stable. also, ask about the most recent couple years' worth of HOA fee increases. ask about any pending lawsuits against the HOA (ex: negligence about removing snow and ice. I live in New England)

another thing to consider is how many rentals there are already. while it's nice to not have a cap on the # of rentals in case he ever needs to rent it out himself, it's also nice to know that most of the units are owner-occupied. pride in home ownership and all. yes, I know that's coming across as a blanket statement judging tenants. but it is what it is.

ask about the property management company. see if he can speak to other HOAs that are properties managed by the same mgmt company. there are some really shitty mgmt companies out there, and it would suck to buy in and have to deal with them.

as with any property, check into the builder if possible. in my area, there's one notorious builder that put up a bunch of condo complexes with sub-par work. think cardboard HVAC ducts. how it all passed inspection just makes me shake my head. 

[Bonny]

Jul 14, 2016 9:22:59 GMT -5 justme said:

I just bought a condo almost a year ago. I had rented in the complex for five years before I bought though.

I think above all the HOA is the biggest thing. The rest means nothing if the HOA is crap. Make sure it has good reserves. Look into who runs it and how it's run. The rules. How often they have had assessments and options for paying that. What is they're responsibility vs yours for repair.

Won't matter how many other boxes it checked if your HOA sucks.

That said I always had to have in unit laundry even when I was renting. There's assigned parking that you own with your condo here and you can get others that park there towed. First floor has good and bad, the part that pisses me off the most is how many more bugs I get vs when I was on the fourth floor. There's also building quirks and defects that are annoying as hell, but I knew about most of them due to living here before I bought.

And have your son talk to several of the neighbors, both owners and renters, keeping in mind that there's no perfect unit; there are always trade-offs.

Restrictions on renting are really important. We have a 6 month minimum with the new HOA docs. Mine doesn't allow vacation rentals but I'm technically grandfathered in. HOA has threatened legal action and settled with another owner by charging them $300 for move-in, move out fees for each "booking". It still may be worth it to the owner as they can charge something like $6k/wk.

[justme]

Oh, another thing about renters is to look at the policy around them. My complex actually is around half, maybe more, renters. The HOA does a background check on any renter that they have to pass - so it's not completely up to the whim of the owner. There's things renters can't do like own dogs (the renters wouldn't pick up after the dogs).

My HOA is professionally managed with two people on site during business hours. Complaints are dealt with quickly and I think it keeps the renters in line. The HOA will enforce the rules complete with fines.

[Tiny]

I've never lived in a condo/townhouse, and, um, I basically bought one (as an investment property) without actually seeing it/walking thru it in person (saw it via Skype/pictures via someone I trusted and google maps). I have friends who have lived in/owned condos and townehouses.  ( I still consider condos/townehouses when 'bottom feeding' for low cost properties to buy but I prefer SFHs).  

Here's my advice:

Yeah, I look at distressed/inexpensive properties - but don't assume just because a property is 'expensive' or freshly painted with new carpeting and appliances that's it's 'quality' or doesn't have problems.

Look at the type of building you are buying into. I prefer a building that was original constructed as condos/townehouses (and not apartment complex conversions). Based on friends' experiences: Apartments converted to condos tend to have 'thin walls and floors' so LOTS of noise - noise didn't matter since renters come and go constantly - they would tuff out hearing their neighbors walk/talk/move chairs/open doors until their lease was up and they could move. Living with that kind of noise for YEARS can be unbearable.   Especially if you have neighbors on all sides and above/below you. Condos that were built AS condos tend to be better at keeping each "residence" separate.

I'd MAYBE also would be leery of any buildings built in the 5 years leading up to the Bubble popping and right after the it... in my area there was a glut of shoddy cinderblock housing/condos built. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with cinderblock - if it's done right it's all good. If it's done wrong it's got water/drainage issues and insulation issues - all difficult and expensive to fix.  

READ the HOA book/document. Understand the rules. The bits about rentals is important but so is what you can/cannot do to your property, what kinds of pets (if it sez no pets - it means no pets - sure would suck to get a pocket chihauhau  or cat(s)  and then have to give it up after a year when the HOA finds out about it) , parking regulations for guests, and other mundane stuff you take for granted. A friend bought a condo because she 'loved' it... and got slapped with a bunch of warnings and fines - because she hung a decorative 'welcome' wreath on her front door and didn't put her trash out in approved containers. She was also distressed to find out there was no overnight parking on her shared "driveway" or on the street directly in front of her unit. overnight guests have to park a block away. There were dozens more things like this. None of these were deal breakers for her she likes her condo/area - but the 'surprise' of finding out about them AFTER she purchased and moved gave her a lot of mental/emotional annoyance.

Know how much your monthly HOA fees are (and what's included in them). You can't compare an HOA fee from one complex to another's without breaking down EXACTLY what's in the Fee... Compare the breakouts - not the total amount.

I'd recommend giving the properties a good hard look with a critical eye to see what kind of condition they are in (roof? common areas? exteriors?)... but I realize most people don't see beyond the "gilt" that most buildings are clad in so maybe that's not something to do.

Just like house buying - pay attention to the age of the A/C, Furnance, Hot water heater, and appliances - cause one or more of them WILL fail once you move in. Sometimes you can be prepared for the failure (have cash/money to cover the expense).

[Tiny]

Perhaps something to think about might be considering a 2 bedroom/2 full bath condo - so if a 'roommate' was needed to help with expenses, it wouldn't be a huge lifestyle change to do so (not sharing a bathroom).

[justme]

Jul 14, 2016 12:40:12 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Perhaps something to think about might be considering a 2 bedroom/2 full bath condo - so if a 'roommate' was needed to help with expenses, it wouldn't be a huge lifestyle change to do so (not sharing a bathroom).

That's my worst case scenario with my place. I could probably charge half or a little more of my mortgage and split electric and internet. Half would be around 400 less than the one bedrooms in my complex rent for, so maybe could get a little more?

But I like living alone too much to do that unless I had to.

[souldoubt]

In regards to parking a big thing for me would would be a designated parking spot and/or garage, preferably a garage you can also use for storage.  I've got two sets of friends that come to mind who live in different condos.  Neither of them has a garage, they have one designated parking space (both married couples with 2 cars) and parking for guests is terrible.  Needing two permanent spots isn't an issue if it's just your son but he should still check out the parking situation at night to see how guest parking looks.  Condos are pretty much apartments and while it's not an issue for some people particularly younger people the number of people living in a small space with unites on top, below and both sides leads to parking issues a lot of times.  

One of the couples mentioned had a ground floor unit and they woke up one morning to find water coming through the ceiling.  The guy above them decided to do some plumbing work, didn't know what he was doing and their unit ended up getting flooded.  It was a disaster and they ended up out of their unit for almost a month while the HOA was very hard to deal with just to get them made whole.  However unlikely that is to happen you have to consider it a possibility and that along with noise from people walking around is why I'd I want an upper unit.  As others said read the HOA CC&R's to know what's allowed, what isn't allowed and what you have to run by the HOA before doing.  If you want to make changes inside sometimes you have to get that approved by the HOA beforehand.   

[Tiny]

I'll add one more thing... a friend bought a condo in a complex with a pool (in a place where you can use a pool 3 months out of the year) and in the 7 years she lived there NEVER went to the pool. Upkeep of the pool was included in her HOA fees. She was paying for something she never used. Sometimes things like this don't matter... but I would think if you have a lot of stuff you are paying for and not using it could become irksome as time goes on. Since, in theory, you aren't buying and selling in a year or two - you're staying put for a handful of years or longer.

FWIW: a nephew bought a condo and sold it within two years... he pretty much 'broke even' when the dust settled from the sale after all the expenses of selling it.

[motherto2]

Thanks for the input! He's looking to buy in Northern VA, so places are very expensive.  Hence the condo vs. a townhome.  He definitely will have a roommate, which is why parking is such a pain.  Plus he has a work car, and will need to have 3 spots total.  I'm not even worrying about overnight guest parking since he needs three spots full time.

Believe it or not, most of the condos in the areas (at least in his price range) are 40-50 years old.  And it's like the bubble all over again.  They get scooped up so quickly it's not even funny. 

He has a dog so his realtor knows to look for pet friendly places.  One place we looked at only allowed 25 lbs or less, unless the dog was fat and would normally be under 25 pounds as a breed

We are going out tomorrow to look at a few places.  The one place we found that was absolutely perfect, and perfectly priced, is just too far out.  Not close enough to the major highways to make for a better commute.

Wish us luck because we are definitely going to need it!  Luckily he has grown up on HGTV since I'm a junky, so he understands that some places you have to decide fairly quickly or it's gone.

[TheOtherMe]

HGTV has changed things.

I've owned both a townhouse and a condo.  The condo was originally an apartment complex. 

I loved the townhouse.  I would probably still be in it 40 years later if the unit next door had not been sold and it was turned in to a rental.  It was rented to 6 college students (3 bedrooms) and they partied at all hours of the day and night.  I worked.  They would not cooperate with me on noise during the week so I sold and made a nice profit.

[TheHaitian]

Where in NOVA if I may ask? We are looking in Arlington, Alexandria and metro DC.

Everyone is telling us to stay the hell out of DC but we love the place. But I guess being a short ride out would not be the end of the world.

Condos, what we learned in our search:
- we cannot do high rise: they come with extravagant HOA fees. Think $1,200/month HOA fees on top of your mortgage. Our goal was $400/month or less

- another reason we could not do high rise: we wanted laundry in our apartment unit, not a public laundry that everyone on the same floor could use (more common on high rise).

- so after discovering that we reduce our search to mid rise (6-9 floors) or boutique style (old home converted to 3-4 condo units). They had lower HOA fees, tend to be newer/updated.

Also Budget and location plays a big role. Ex: co-workers were bragging how one pays 1k/month in rent for an apartment in Frederick, MD and another pays $1,500/month for a 4 bedroom house in the same town... But guess how long it took them to get home last night from NOVA : 1 hr 45 minutes and 1h 10 minutes to get to work that morning.

So yes cheap rent is possible, but be ready to spend 2-3 hrs in your car daily. We talked about it and with a baby on the way, time is important to us. We will pay the higher rent/mortgage so we don't have to spend more than 30-45 minutes commuting (under 1 hour is the goal).

Since we both will most likely be working in DC, that was on the top of our list. But close second is Alexandria followed by Arlington.

Arlington has the young/hype vibe that we are no longer part of, vs Alexandria (old town) has the more settled/grown up vibe. DC is just DC and I love it no matter what everyone else is telling me!

[wmpeon]

If he is "definitely" going to have a roommate, is now really a good time for him to buy a home?  Owning is expensive, regardless of the type of home.  If he needs a roommate in order to pay the mortgage and utilities, he is better off renting. Just my two cents.

[Tiny]

Jul 14, 2016 23:09:04 GMT -5 wmpeon said:

If he is "definitely" going to have a roommate, is now really a good time for him to buy a home?  Owning is expensive, regardless of the type of home.  If he needs a roommate in order to pay the mortgage and utilities, he is better off renting. Just my two cents.

I agree with this.   But,  I can see some exceptions:

He's got someone he's already comfortable being roomies with and his choice of condo/location/etc matches up well with this person's long term plans for where they will work.

His own long term plans/career path indicate that he only needs a 'roomie' for a year or two and he'll be able to afford the condo on his own.  (some jobs are like that - you spend a couple, two, three years at low pay but then start seeing big-ish increases in pay)

He's speculating on real estate and hoping the prices keep going up so that in a couple of years (of tuffing it out with a roomie OR struggling to pay for everything alone) the value of his property will sky rocket and he will sell and walk away with cash.

Even with those exceptions - he's looking at a some potentially 'lean' years for the immediate future.  

It sure sucks to be "house rich and cash poor" - especially when you feel you are missing out on all sorts of stuff (because of the lack of cash).

Even condos/townehouses require maintenance - stuff wears out or just breaks or "life happens" and you've got an unexpected expense.    

[lund]

The finances of the association, the state of the complex (repairs coming up? assessment risks or reserves?), the HOA rules (parking, outside looks, any chores for the HOA,...), and the kind of HOA (too lenient, OK, too fault-seeking,....) would matter most to me (in addition to the location).

A condo in a complex built as a house for several households is best. Conversions from single family homes often have problems with bad sound barriers.
Watch out for rules concerning noise; doing laundry may be seen as a disturbing noise.
Who owns and pays for what matters. To be responsible for outside maintenance and repairs is not good. The best is if the HOA takes care of the outside plus all shared systems.

A higher HOA bill that includes heating, water, trash, outside maintenance (grass, snow), and reserves for building maintenance and repairs may be quite OK.
A low bill meaning assessments will come is often much worse over time.

I have lived with a shared laundry room. It was OK as long as the rules about when to do laundry and how to clean up after doing so were followed. When people started with short-term renting, it was very bad - it seems like people on vacation just can't read nor follow instructions.
I preferred having a washing machine of my own in addition to the large ones in the basement in order to be able to wash any urgent laundry without booking time in advance.

There are expenses from condo repairs and maintenance. The kitchen with appliances usually is the owner's to maintain. Here, bathrooms often are not.
Now and then odd items, like door handles, break, or it is time to repaint.

Having at least one reserved parking space and guest parking available (at a fee would be OK) would be important to me.

Storage is often a problem in modern buildings. With the open plans and few and small closets, plus many modern buildings have no attic or basement storage, it may be necessary to rent off-site storage which is a hassle and a cost.